Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[amolbhatia50k]

Jesus, too many moany cnuts, if you only supported United because they were successful, you can FO now and support city.
You support your Club during the bad times as well, yes we are way of the pace but ffs, we're in the premier league with a trophy room full to the brim and i can see an improvement in the squad signings, you can't off load players no one else wants overnight, incremental improvements are all that's going to happen, so it will take time, i'll support Ole and the lads.

All fair enough except Ole and Woodward aren't the club.

 

[rotherham_red]

That's pretty much how I feel about it.

The new manager bounce we had under Ole surely shows that some players just aren't pulling their weight.

I do find it odd though how we've moved Pogba backwards when he was doing so well in the 10 position. Yes we lost Herrera but Mctominay seems to have stepped up quite well in that regard, the main issue is Lingard. He was doing well from the right side in the floating role at the beginning but he's completely fallen off the cliff.

I do think one Rashford should be moved to the right as James seems way more effective on the left.

I fully agree with everything you just said. And while at the game on Sunday, it crystallised it for me even more. These were by and large the same players who suddenly turned into world beaters at Cardiff (where I also was as a spectator) and now they are turning in these performances?

I gave them the benefit of the doubt under Jose, but now under Ole, I can't see it being anything but them tbh. If you can play like you did against Cardiff, then that should be the level you seek to maintain. Anything less is a dereliction of duty. It's not like Ole is a monster like Jose was, or stubborn in his ways like LvG was. He genuinely cares about the club and his first 10-15 games showed just how he wanted us to play. And all the fans genuinely loved it and him for it. This is why I'm saying he needs more time. He needs to purge the dressing room of the chancers who have been there for years with little to show for it.

Yes, Pogba being pushed into the double pivot isn't great, but with how many holes we have in midfield, Pogba being there is better than the alternative of... who? Would love Fred to be that man, but it seems he's in the doghouse. Matic? Let's not go there. The only other alternative is Garner, who has the grand total of 3 minutes first team experience.

I feel for Rashford, he's blatantly been pushed physically to the limit in light of the injury situation and when he's played without Pogba he's had to feed off scraps. You put anyone else not named Messi in such an isolated position they genuinely wouldn't do much better.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

He’s sapping my enjoyment out of watching United nowadays. It’s out of habit than any enjoyment factor. Haven’t felt this way since Moyes

Its hard to moan about quality and put it on the manager when the two top quality attacking players are out injured and the third one is going through a wretched run of form. The team at least looked on the precipice of something good when fully healthy.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

I wonder if it might be helpful for him to get some more experienced staff besides Phelan than rely on Carrick and the other U21 coach who's only recently been promoted. What's Mulensteen, McLaren or Queiroz been upto?

 

[rotherham_red]

All fair enough except Ole and Woodward aren't the club.

Ole is the manager. He is the person who is the custodian of the club. If you support the club but not the manager, then I wonder what you're actually supporting because unlike your premise, they actually both are one and the same. It'd be one thing if the manager was someone who was out for himself like Jose and LvG, or someone who while well meaning, just wasn't cut out for it like Moyes. But Ole, is different. We've seen how he wants us to play in his first 10-15 games. We've seen various elements of good tactical understanding during those games. That they haven't come through in recent games, is something I put on the players before the manager. These players have a proven history of flicking it on and off like a switch.

How anyone can't see that is beyond me.

 

[Mainoldo]

You just have to be realistic. Our squad sucks.

Norwich have 2 players in Pukki and Cantwell that would instantly make our team better. That's a promoted team!

You can only play with what we have, beyong Pogba+Martial and perhaps James at times, none of our attacking players are playing up to standard. Our midfield is very average.

We clearly struggle to score goals, so we will rarely win matches.

You can say that's down to coaching, but we've had one of the best managers of the recent PL era in charge and he couldn't do anything with them.

I personally think Ole needs time and a few windows to shape the squad how he wants, otherwise we are just going back around in circles.

I stand by what I said, would Guardiola / Klopp / Poch come into this team and start instantly winning? no. No manager is going to win matches with a centre of Mata, Pereira, Matic. I've seen more dynamic players at walking football matches.

Rubbish. Come on guy wake up. We moan that Daniel James is doing to much but now you want to tell me Pukki makes us better. Are you crazy. Tell you who makes Norwich better. Rashford and Lingard. I mean we got linked with Aarons and Godfrey in the summer and the transfer forum was having a hissy fit.

They look good because they are a well organised team nothing to do with quality. We have top 6 quality whether you chose to believe it or not. Stop looking down and look up. We’ve developed our own problems by believing it was okay to not buy players that take us further up the table and secondly by hiring a manager who is no better than David Moyes.

To answer you Klopp; Guardiola question. Would they like this team no. But doesn’t mean they would just turn into shite managers. Maguire and Lindelöf would be forced to pass from the back which they are clearly capable of doing. DeGea would possible be dropped by Pep as he’s scared to come out of his box and average with his feet. Fred most definitely would be in midfield screening or next to someone screening whilst Pogba and Pierera would be playing inbetween the lines. It’s not rocket science. They might not be of quality but it’s not hard to develop style. I mean we had the best possession coach in charge of us and guess what. We played possession football. Imagine that.

 

[Shark]

I fully agree with everything you just said. And while at the game on Sunday, it crystallised it for me even more. These were by and large the same players who suddenly turned into world beaters at Cardiff (where I also was as a spectator) and now they are turning in these performances?

I gave them the benefit of the doubt under Jose, but now under Ole, I can't see it being anything but them tbh. If you can play like you did against Cardiff, then that should be the level you seek to maintain. Anything less is a dereliction of duty. It's not like Ole is a monster like Jose was, or stubborn in his ways like LvG was. He genuinely cares about the club and his first 10-15 games showed just how he wanted us to play. And all the fans genuinely loved it and him for it. This is why I'm saying he needs more time. He needs to purge the dressing room of the chancers who have been there for years with little to show for it.

Yes, Pogba being pushed into the double pivot isn't great, but with how many holes we have in midfield, Pogba being there is better than the alternative of... who? Would love Fred to be that man, but it seems he's in the doghouse. Matic? Let's not go there. The only other alternative is Garner, who has the grand total of 3 minutes first team experience.

I feel for Rashford, he's blatantly been pushed physically to the limit in light of the injury situation and when he's played without Pogba he's had to feed off scraps. You put anyone else not named Messi in such an isolated position they genuinely wouldn't do much better.

I’m sorry but this part is rubbish. You don’t have to be Messi to control a football, you don’t have to be Messi to be a danger to opposition defenses. Even Daniel James, who has come straight from the championship is looking more of a threat than Rashy.

 

[Mainoldo]

I wonder if it might be helpful for him to get some more experienced staff besides Phelan than rely on Carrick and the other U21 coach who's only recently been promoted. What's Mulensteen, McLaren or Queiroz been upto?

How about we bloody tune into 2019 and get the best of the new crop of coaches.

 

[rotherham_red]

I’m sorry but this part is rubbish. You don’t have to be Messi to control a football, you don’t have to be Messi to be a danger to opposition defenses. Even Daniel James, who has come straight from the championship is looking more of a threat than Rashy.

His confidence has been sapped. I honestly don't blame him for any of what's happening right now. We've seen what he can do when he's fit and ready to go. He's got three years of goodwill built up for me, and he deserves support not admonishment. He's 21, ffs.

 

[StrettyEnder07]

Is there a press conference today for tomorrow's game?

 

[TRUERED89]

[QUOTE="Judas, post: 24733800, member: 52843"]A new quality manager would fix one of the many many issues infesting the club. But leaving Ole in charge because we've got other problems is negligent.[/QUOTE]
Didn't we think the same about LVG & Jose? Who realistically out there can help us if the board isn't willing to make it easier for managers to succeed.

 

[dwd]

Interesting point from that.

When Moyes got 8 points from his first 6 games we went on to win 4 and draw 1 of the next 5. I agree with Mitten, no way in hell we do that, especially with Liverpool & Arsenal at home coming up.

 

[Volumiza]

I’m sorry but this part is rubbish. You don’t have to be Messi to control a football, you don’t have to be Messi to be a danger to opposition defenses. Even Daniel James, who has come straight from the championship is looking more of a threat than Rashy.

I agree with this 100%. Dan James, £15m and on a fraction of 'Rashy's' wages is a much more dangerous player.

His confidence has been sapped. I honestly don't blame him for any of what's happening right now. We've seen what he can do when he's fit and ready to go. He's got three years of goodwill built up for me, and he deserves support not admonishment. He's 21, ffs.

I agree with this 10%. Confidence been sapped? Then he should be taken out of the team for a while, although I don't believe it is all about confidence. He got talent but is really limited in his play. I don't blame him for what is happening to the club but he needs to be judged on what he's paid to do ... score goals. Tell me, what can he do when he's fit? Yeah he has pace, can score goals but he isn't a real danger to teams as Dan James, a player with arguably less talent than 'Rashy' (I hate that nickname).

I've got plenty of goodwill for him and yes, I agree he needs support, but that doesn't excuse him from criticism and I'm not interested in him being 21. I could accept he has more to learn at 21 but the fact is he is no more improved than 3 years ago.

 

[rotherham_red]

I agree with this 100%. Dan James, £15m and on a fraction of 'Rashy's' wages is a much more dangerous player.



I agree with this 10%. Confidence been sapped? Then he should be taken out of the team for a while, although I don't believe it is all about confidence. He got talent but is really limited in his play. I don't blame him for what is happening to the club but he needs to be judged on what he's paid to do ... score goals. Tell me, what can he do when he's fit? Yeah he has pace, can score goals but he isn't a real danger to teams as Dan James, a player with arguably less talent than 'Rashy' (I hate that nickname).

I've got plenty of goodwill for him and yes, I agree he needs support, but that doesn't excuse him from criticism and I'm not interested in him being 21. I could accept he has more to learn at 21 but the fact is he is no more improved than 3 years ago.

And play who? He was literally the last man standing on Sunday...

Also, we've seen plenty of what he can do when he's fit. He's scored in so many clutch situations for us, plenty of spectacular goals, tireless running and effort, and a fair bit of skill as well. At his best, he's the complete modern day attacker. We haven't seen that Rashford because I suspect he hasn't been fully right ever since Henderson did his ankle in the Liverpool match. A game where he bravely played on for 70-odd minutes because he was again, the last man standing.

There's a lot of issues at the club, but Rashford isn't one of them.

 

[Enigma_87]

That is not an opinion mate, its pure drivel! And there are plenty of post`s like this. Selling players, team selections etc are opinions. Well informed or not..
At this moment the manager has no choice but to trust players like Matic and Mata.

I watch a lot of fooball. A lot. And right now there are many teams not playing good. You will struggle to see a clear plan at Juventus. Inter struggle with rhythm. But they are both scraping results. Barcelona is struggling. Real Madrid. Atletico. and so on and so on. By the logic in this thread you must believe the managers are instructing them to play bad. Pick the wrong passes and making the wrong runs.

No mate, there are so many cringeworthy posts here that it is embarrassing thinking other clubs fans would read it.

How old are you?

Watching football a lot doesn’t mean your opinion holds more weight than any other poster around here.

I browsed your posts you constantly insult other posters who don’t share your opinion and that’s not how you want to pass your agenda.

I’ve watched football a lot since 25 years. Went through all youth level set ups and have some idea of the full development cycle of young lads and a bit of coaching. I wouldn’t brag about it to put more weight on my opinion and neither should you.

Ole had the whole summer to identify targets and bring in his own players. Completely disregarding the midfield and identifying Longstaff as a potential (and maybe only one) target speaks volumes about the work done in the summer.

I’ll let you continue your own drivel with couple of questions - who did he develop so far and who are the players that you see significant progress since he took over - more than 9 months?

What attacking moves he has implemented and how did he change our attacking, pressing game since he took over?

Why are struggling to break teams and why don’t we have plan B when we are either losing or the opposition surrender a possession.

Just a friendly memo - don’t call people idiots in your posts it can probably be beneficial for you in the future.

 

[Volumiza]

And play who? He was literally the last man standing on Sunday...

That is one of the problems we face dude.

Also, we've seen plenty of what he can do when he's fit. He's scored in so many clutch situations for us, plenty of spectacular goals, tireless running and effort, and a fair bit of skill as well. At his best, he's the complete modern day attacker.

We all know what he can do ... it's just that we don't see it very often and not properly for quite a long time. And he's far from complete. Selfish, poor decision making.

We haven't seen that Rashford because I suspect he hasn't been fully right ever since Henderson did his ankle in the Liverpool match. A game where he bravely played on for 70-odd minutes because he was again, the last man standing.

I agree, something isn't right but I don't believe it is all physical.

There's a lot of issues at the club, but Rashford isn't one of them.

When our (now) main striker isn't scoring regularly it is absolutely an issue. Sorry Rotheram Red, I just don't agree. I've been watching Rashford for years. Youth games on MUTV and I used to tell my boss, a Liverpool fan, how we had a proper star coming through. The thing I see now is almost the same player. For saying he has been in and around a massive club like Utd, with all the top facilities and coaches and all the other stuff, I just don't see much, if any improvement.

 

[UnitedSofa]

Some of you don't understand I feel the situation why some of us are disappointed. We all agree that Matic, Mata and McTominay are not good enough.
But you keep ignoring the fact there are plenty of players who are better than these three playing in the PL and other leagues around in Europe who would make this team a lot better without costing an arm and a leg.
Trying to get the best players in the world who even refuse to come at outrageous fees is the problem.
If Ole had identified any three players who are better than them and doesn't cost much I don't see any reason why Woodward would not have bought them.
It's the fault of Ole that our midfield is so pathetic.

McDominate!? Are you having a bubble? McTominay is one of our stronger players and at only 22 too!

It's not a problem, it's a positive, we don't want mercenaries at the club. We want players who want to play for the club and not for money.

Everything is not Ole's fault, you can't offload a bunch of players and replace them in one window. Simply not possible. Our fans can never be happy it seems. Fix the defence after years of crying out for a new RB and a new CB, get two quality players in and we're not happy. Ole can't win whatever he does.

He fixes the midfield and then the strike force is a problem (it is but still) -

Then again there are posters who want De Gea to be sold.

 

[Patience]

How the hell is it that there are grown men and women on this internet forum who have watched and 'supported' United post Ferguson and seem to think that the person responsible for the mess we're in is THE MANAGER?

Whatchall smoking?

How can you look at United and suggest the problem is with the manager?

What you wanna do; sack Ole and hire... eh.. I don't know? Is there a manager who has won titles everywhere he's been? A manager who has won European trophies.. constantly got to the latter stages of the Champions League.. knows his way around the Premier League.. nah, they're can't be a manager with all those strings to his bow, surely.. is there? Oh wait.. Mourinho had ALL of that and more on his CV.

We gave him the job; look what happened.

It wasn't his fault. It wasn't LvG's fault. It wasn't Moyes' fault. It isn't Ole's fault.

The problem is with succession planning.

Let me spell this out, because it isn't talked about enough.

We had Sir Alex Ferguson along with David Gill running the biggest football club on the planet. They both left at the same time - May 2013 and who did we hand the running of the football club over to? Ed Woodward. An accountant. A commercialist. And all he has done since is hire and fire managers. He didn't give Moyes a chance; nor LvG, nor Jose. How the hell are we supposed to succession plan if we keep firing managers?

Man City are the best run club in England.. why? Succession planning. They play the same way through managers (and it's planned that way); they have football clubs around the world who play the same way too.. it's a whole footballing project. They brought in Pellegrini because he plays the same way Guardiola does.. and they told him that he would be succeeded by Pep when Pep was ready to come. Now they already know that Arteta will succeed Pep.. playing the same way. This is succession planning.

Liverpool brought in Klopp who plays the same (though better) high-intensity press that Brendan Rodgers before him did. Klopp still finished 7th in his first season, but did Liverpool sack him? No. They wanted to see their plan out.. next season he finished 4th, then 4th again, then 2nd.. He may well win the title this year.

Meanwhile, as Liverpool and City are lauding in great results down to the club's succession planning - our "accountant" is hiring and firing managers left right and centre.

Now; finally - it seems as if he has twigged the error of his ways, and we have hired young.. hired a manager with a long-term vision, who wanted to clear the decks, get the players causing unrest out the door... with a view to us winning titles down the line after we evolve our squad back in to a Man Utd squad.

It seems Woodward has finally copped on. Yet there are still fans on forums thinking we should play fire and hire again. On what planet does that make sense?

Now; I'm not saying Solskjaer is gonna be our Klopp.. maybe he's gonna be our Brendan Rodgers... the man who begins the succession planning. But he SURE AS HELL has to be given the time.

 

[Shark]

McDominate!? Are you having a bubble? McTominay is one of our stronger players and at only 22 too!

It's not a problem, it's a positive, we don't want mercenaries at the club. We want players who want to play for the club and not for money.

Everything is not Ole's fault, you can't offload a bunch of players and replace them in one window. Simply not possible. Our fans can never be happy it seems. Fix the defence after years of crying out for a new RB and a new CB, get two quality players in and we're not happy. Ole can't win whatever he does.

He fixes the midfield and then the strike force is a problem (it is but still) -

Then again there are posters who want De Gea to be sold.

Great idea. Let’s not touch players like De Bruyne, Aguero, Firmino, Salah and Kante because they’re money hungry mercenaries. This is getting ridiculous, now as one of the biggest clubs in the world we're to not to near superstar players? What exactly are we building then? Most United fans aren’t even looking for us to fill the squad with star studded players, but apparently it’s too much to even ask for a replacements for our 70m number 9 Lukaku and arguably our best midfielder in Herrera. This is not how clubs that are looking to challenge fir major honors operate, this is how West Ham and Southampton operate.

 

[vanderstar]

How the hell is it that there are grown men and women on this internet forum who have watched and 'supported' United post Ferguson and seem to think that the person who should take the fall is THE MANAGER?

Whatchall smoking?

How can you look at United and suggest the problem is with the manager?

What you wanna do; sack Ole and hire... eh.. I don't know? Is there a manager who has won titles everywhere he's been? A manager who has won European trophies.. constantly got to the latter stages of the Champions League.. knows his way around the Premier League.. nah, they're can't be a manager with all those strings to his bow, surely.. is there? Oh wait.. Mourinho had ALL of that and more on his CV.

We gave him the job; look what happened.

It wasn't his fault. It wasn't LvG's fault. It wasn't Moyes' fault. It isn't Ole's fault.

The problem is with succession planning.

Let me spell this out, because it isn't talked about enough.

We had Sir Alex Ferguson along with David Gill running the biggest football club on the planet. They both left at the same time - May 2013 and who did we hand the running of the football club over to? Ed Woodward. An accountant. A commercialist. And all he has done since is hire and fire managers. He didn't give Moyes a chance; nor LvG, nor Jose. How the hell are we supposed to succession plan if we keep firing managers?

Man City are the best run club in England.. why? Succession planning. They play the same way through managers (and it's planned that way); they have football clubs around the world who play the same way too.. it's a whole footballing project. They brought in Pellegrini because he plays the same way Guardiola does.. and they told him that he would be succeeded by Pep when Pep was ready to come. Now they already know that Arteta will succeed Pep.. playing the same way. This is succession planning.

Liverpool brought in Klopp who plays the same (though better) high-intensity press that Brendan Rodgers before him did. Klopp still finished 7th in his first season, but did Liverpool sack him? No. They wanted to see their plan out.. next season he finished 4th, then 4th again, then 2nd.. He may well win the title this year.

Meanwhile, as Liverpool and City are lauding in great results down to the club's succession planning - our "accountant" is hiring and firing managers left right and centre.

Now; finally - it seems as if he has twigged the error of his ways, and we have hired young.. hired a manager with a long-term vision, who wanted to clear the decks, get the players causing unrest out the door... with a view to us winning titles down the line after we evolve our squad back in to a Man Utd squad.

It seems Woodward has finally copped on. Yet there are still fans on forums thinking we should play fire and hire again. On what planet does that make sense?

Now; I'm not saying Solskjaer is gonna be our Klopp.. maybe he's gonna be our Brendan Rodgers... the man who begins the succession planning. But he SURE AS HELL has to be given the time.

Thanks mate. I needed that after reading about our impending doom if we don't fire Ole...

 

[Adam-Utd]

Rubbish. Come on guy wake up. We moan that Daniel James is doing to much but now you want to tell me Pukki makes us better. Are you crazy. Tell you who makes Norwich better. Rashford and Lingard. I mean we got linked with Aarons and Godfrey in the summer and the transfer forum was having a hissy fit.

They look good because they are a well organised team nothing to do with quality. We have top 6 quality whether you chose to believe it or not. Stop looking down and look up. We’ve developed our own problems by believing it was okay to not buy players that take us further up the table and secondly by hiring a manager who is no better than David Moyes.

To answer you Klopp; Guardiola question. Would they like this team no. But doesn’t mean they would just turn into shite managers. Maguire and Lindelöf would be forced to pass from the back which they are clearly capable of doing. DeGea would possible be dropped by Pep as he’s scared to come out of his box and average with his feet. Fred most definitely would be in midfield screening or next to someone screening whilst Pogba and Pierera would be playing inbetween the lines. It’s not rocket science. They might not be of quality but it’s not hard to develop style. I mean we had the best possession coach in charge of us and guess what. We played possession football. Imagine that.

I think you're the one that needs to wake up actually.

Thinking Lingard would improve Norwich is a joke what's he going to improve, their dance skills?

Pukki is a more natural goalscorer than anybody in our team bar Martial. He's scored more goals in his career than Rashford in a calandar year

People like you are just very naive and think managers have some magical tactical book that'll transform an average player into a superstar. What a joke.

Our squad is way under par.

The fact Dan James has come in and scored/assisted more than Lingard/Pereira has instantly shows exactly how bad things are right now.

 

[passing-wind]

Ole is just a poor coach and a poor manager. he has already failed in the league and championship and all of a sudden is a guarantee for long term success out of thin air because he likes to press or can play a counter attacking system. Realistically are those elements enough to get us back into top four and eventually challenge for the league ? What about a philosophy, tactical implementation, players being coached / developing, the identity of a team. I'm sure when Dalglish was in charge many supporters used the same long term arguement to support his ideals, "he's a club legend give him time" sentimentality which is no real reflection to assess a managers capabilities.

On the basis of what he's achieved in his managerial career Solskjaer is actually achieving what he should be with this squad. Better players cannot cater for poor coaching, how can we expect miracles to overthrow Palace, West Ham, Everton, Southampton etc (last season) when those clubs have coaches and management who are more astute compared to Ole. Madrid are a perfect example of what a quality squad looks like with no direction. We are fringe in midfield because of the management, Ole said after the window was shut that funds were available but that the club wanted to identify the right players who wanted to play for the shirt. That's fair enough but realistically under his tenure and our current circumstances how many players are going to look at us as an attractive option ?

 

[Judas]

Our squad isn't great but the continued lack of respect for the difference proper coaching can make is just bizarre. We look clueless, a soulless husk of a team.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Ole is the manager. He is the person who is the custodian of the club. If you support the club but not the manager, then I wonder what you're actually supporting because unlike your premise, they actually both are one and the same. It'd be one thing if the manager was someone who was out for himself like Jose and LvG, or someone who while well meaning, just wasn't cut out for it like Moyes. But Ole, is different. We've seen how he wants us to play in his first 10-15 games. We've seen various elements of good tactical understanding during those games. That they haven't come through in recent games, is something I put on the players before the manager. These players have a proven history of flicking it on and off like a switch.

How anyone can't see that is beyond me.

No, what's beyond you is how anybody can disagree with your view. I can see your arguments and see the merit in them but wholeheartedly disagree where I don't find them making sense.

On to the actual specifics, my rebuttal is as below.

• Ole/Woodward/Glazers are all in their own respective capacities running (and owning the case of some) the football club's affairs for the time being. Their role (although you could argue this not being the case for the Glazerz) is not one of complete permanance. The club will continue to breathe, exist, be loved and thrive (or otherwise) with or without them. So they arent the club of course.
• The argument that 'who do you support if you don't support the manager?' is a fair one. However, I think we need to focus on the word support rather than the word who. I reckon nearly the entire forum wants Ole to succeed at Manchester United. However many, with good reason, don't actually believe in him to ablea to do so. Is that a lack of support? Or a lack a faith from people who are clearly supporters who watch every game willing us on? I'd argue that it's the latter. On the other hand, if you spend all your time bickering about Ole you help create an atmosphere which isn't 'supportive' of the manager so I guess there's that. But at the end of the day I think it's very hard to argue that those fans aren't supporters. They want the club to do well after all. A club which can and will exist beyond Ole.
• Also, I'm not convinced by the merit of the 'Ole is different. He cares.' argument. How does that even matter? And why did LVG not care? Ole is not here to love the club. He's here to manage it well as a proper professional. Great player for us but nobody is doing any favours nor can they afford.
• And finally on to the job that he's actually and I'm not really seeing these elements in his management that you have. For me it's simple - I like the work Ole has done off the pitch (Youth, feck yeah) but not the work that he's done on it. Off the pitch I like our direction, but on it we look a mismanaged mess again. But I'd give him till January to see whether he can prove himself.
• And finally the players. I mean, we've been down this road before. These aren't LVG or Moyes players.

 

[OrcaFat]

How the hell is it that there are grown men and women on this internet forum who have watched and 'supported' United post Ferguson and seem to think that the person who should take the fall is THE MANAGER?

Whatchall smoking?

How can you look at United and suggest the problem is with the manager?

What you wanna do; sack Ole and hire... eh.. I don't know? Is there a manager who has won titles everywhere he's been? A manager who has won European trophies.. constantly got to the latter stages of the Champions League.. knows his way around the Premier League.. nah, they're can't be a manager with all those strings to his bow, surely.. is there? Oh wait.. Mourinho had ALL of that and more on his CV.

We gave him the job; look what happened.

It wasn't his fault. It wasn't LvG's fault. It wasn't Moyes' fault. It isn't Ole's fault.

The problem is with succession planning.

Let me spell this out, because it isn't talked about enough.

We had Sir Alex Ferguson along with David Gill running the biggest football club on the planet. They both left at the same time - May 2013 and who did we hand the running of the football club over to? Ed Woodward. An accountant. A commercialist. And all he has done since is hire and fire managers. He didn't give Moyes a chance; nor LvG, nor Jose. How the hell are we supposed to succession plan if we keep firing managers?

Man City are the best run club in England.. why? Succession planning. They play the same way through managers (and it's planned that way); they have football clubs around the world who play the same way too.. it's a whole footballing project. They brought in Pellegrini because he plays the same way Guardiola does.. and they told him that he would be succeeded by Pep when Pep was ready to come. Now they already know that Arteta will succeed Pep.. playing the same way. This is succession planning.

Liverpool brought in Klopp who plays the same (though better) high-intensity press that Brendan Rodgers before him did. Klopp still finished 7th in his first season, but did Liverpool sack him? No. They wanted to see their plan out.. next season he finished 4th, then 4th again, then 2nd.. He may well win the title this year.

Meanwhile, as Liverpool and City are lauding in great results down to the club's succession planning - our "accountant" is hiring and firing managers left right and centre.

Now; finally - it seems as if he has twigged the error of his ways, and we have hired young.. hired a manager with a long-term vision, who wanted to clear the decks, get the players causing unrest out the door... with a view to us winning titles down the line after we evolve our squad back in to a Man Utd squad.

It seems Woodward has finally copped on. Yet there are still fans on forums thinking we should play fire and hire again. On what planet does that make sense?

Now; I'm not saying Solskjaer is gonna be our Klopp.. maybe he's gonna be our Brendan Rodgers... the man who begins the succession planning. But he SURE AS HELL has to be given the time.

Good post. I agree with main sentiments. However I have a bit of sympathy with posters who react despairingly after a performance like the West Ham game.

I’m leaning toward the view that Ole needs a lot of time. Several years. Perhaps 5 or 6. I would settle for gradual improvement in results and performances from year to year, allied to consistent policies in developing the club, and I would be in favour of giving Ole as much time as it takes.

Clearly, in this era, he has to be finishing in the top 6 or the pressure from all quarters would be irresistible and he would have to go (if do, as you say, it will be about getting the succession right).

If we are (very) patient, Ole will deliver a bounty of success, I’m convinced.

 

[rotherham_red]

Ole is just a poor coach and a poor manager. he has already failed in the league and championship and all of a sudden is a guarantee for long term success out of thin air because he likes to press or can play a counter attacking system. Realistically are those elements enough to get us back into top four and eventually challenge for the league ? What about a philosophy, tactical implementation, players being coached / developing, the identity of a team. I'm sure when Dalglish was in charge many supporters used the same long term arguement to support his ideals, "he's a club legend give him time" sentimentality which is no real reflection to assess a managers capabilities.

On the basis of what he's achieved in his managerial career Solskjaer is actually achieving what he should be with this squad. Better players cannot cater for poor coaching, how can we expect miracles to overthrow Palace, West Ham, Everton, Southampton etc (last season) when those clubs have coaches and management who are more astute compared to Ole. Madrid are a perfect example of what a quality squad looks like with no direction. We are fringe in midfield because of the management, Ole said after the window was shut that funds were available but that the club wanted to identify the right players who wanted to play for the shirt. That's fair enough but realistically under his tenure and our current circumstances how many players are going to look at us as an attractive option ?

Except Ole showed exactly how he wanted us to play in his first 10-15 games. A period of time where everyone on this board (with the exception of Rhyme Animal) were in near unanimous approval of him.

The fact is, the same set of players who switched off for Jose, are now seemingly doing the same for Ole. Until the rotten apples of the dressing room are purged, we won't see a good Manchester United side, no matter who is coaching us.

 

[Adam-Utd]

I fully agree with everything you just said. And while at the game on Sunday, it crystallised it for me even more. These were by and large the same players who suddenly turned into world beaters at Cardiff (where I also was as a spectator) and now they are turning in these performances?

I gave them the benefit of the doubt under Jose, but now under Ole, I can't see it being anything but them tbh. If you can play like you did against Cardiff, then that should be the level you seek to maintain. Anything less is a dereliction of duty. It's not like Ole is a monster like Jose was, or stubborn in his ways like LvG was. He genuinely cares about the club and his first 10-15 games showed just how he wanted us to play. And all the fans genuinely loved it and him for it. This is why I'm saying he needs more time. He needs to purge the dressing room of the chancers who have been there for years with little to show for it.

Yes, Pogba being pushed into the double pivot isn't great, but with how many holes we have in midfield, Pogba being there is better than the alternative of... who? Would love Fred to be that man, but it seems he's in the doghouse. Matic? Let's not go there. The only other alternative is Garner, who has the grand total of 3 minutes first team experience.

I feel for Rashford, he's blatantly been pushed physically to the limit in light of the injury situation and when he's played without Pogba he's had to feed off scraps. You put anyone else not named Messi in such an isolated position they genuinely wouldn't do much better.

Agreed.

We've had 2 different sets of coaching staff go at these players and none of them can get good football out of them regularly - but there is FLASHES of it which show the skill level is there. I have no idea what the answer is, but I do know there's plenty of better footballers out there that could improve us.

The fact Dan James, Maguire and Wan Bissaka have all come in and looked our best players sums it all up really.

The only 3 players that are safe from our team is De Gea, Pogba and Martial (as long as he's motivated) the rest could all happily be replaced in my eyes.

Personally yes I think Fred and Mctominay with Pogba at the 10, would make a better team than Pogba, Mctominay and Mata/Pereira/Lingard at the 10.

Mata/Pereira are too slow, want too many touches and can't hold the ball under pressure. Lingard can, but he's shown he has zero output and would prefer to play the safe option and "keep it ticking" rather than be dangerous.

Pogba for me is our best 10 as he's got the killer pass, can shoot, can hold the ball, can be an aerial threat and and can drive us up the pitch when defending. He would need to work on his pressing from the front but that's the least of our worries.

 

[Leftback99]

Coaching seems to be this week's buzzword. The answer to all our problems.

 

[Judas]

If we are (very) patient, Ole will deliver a bounty of success, I’m convinced.

Based on what? I just don't understand what anyone has seen to suggest he should get what you're suggesting, 5-6 years? We're seeing nothing on the pitch to suggest he's the right man. The right managers should get time, 100%, managers with proven track records of what we're after especially, Ole doesn't have that.

 

[FootyGirl88]

Coaching seems to be this week's buzzword. The answer to all our problems.

So what is the answer?

 

[pocco]

The issue we have is that we could have such a bad season that the caliber of player that we want in our rebuild simply won't want to join in the summer. You can practically write off Sancho already.

Where do we go then?

Where do you draw the line and say this isn't going to work and, actually, is going to ruin next season too?

 

[Judas]

Coaching seems to be this week's buzzword. The answer to all our problems.

if you don't think it's a major issue with this team and has been for ages, I just don't know if you truly watch football? You can watch any other PL team play, besides probably Newcastle, and they'll look better coached, with a style of play and identity. It's not just this week people with sense have been moaning about it.

 

[Leftback99]

if you don't think it's a major issue with this team and has been for ages, I just don't know if you truly watch football? You can watch any other PL team play, besides probably Newcastle, and they'll look better coached, with a style of play and identity. It's not just this week people with sense have been moaning about it.

They don't at all, it's just that many have suddenly decided they are an expert on it. West Ham on Sunday didn't have some amazing style or identity, they just had extra quality when it mattered from basically their only chance in the first half and a free kick which should have been saved.

This is what mid table football looks like, because without our best players that's what we are.

 

[rotherham_red]

No, what's beyond you is how anybody can disagree with your view. I can see your arguments and see the merit in them but wholeheartedly disagree where I don't find them making sense.

On to the actual specifics, my rebuttal is as below.

• Ole/Woodward/Glazers are all in their own respective capacities running (and owning the case of some) the football club's affairs for the time being. Their role (although you could argue this not being the case for the Glazerz) is not one of complete permanance. The club will continue to breathe, exist, be loved and thrive (or otherwise) with or without them. So they arent the club of course.
• The argument that 'who do you support if you don't support the manager?' is a fair one. However, I think we need to focus on the word support rather than the word who. I reckon nearly the entire forum wants Ole to succeed at Manchester United. However many, with good reason, don't actually believe in him to ablea to do so. Is that a lack of support? Or a lack a faith from people who are clearly supporters who watch every game willing us on? I'd argue that it's the latter. On the other hand, if you spend all your time bickering about Ole you help create an atmosphere which isn't 'supportive' of the manager so I guess there's that. But at the end of the day I think it's very hard to argue that those fans aren't supporters. They want the club to do well after all. A club which can and will exist beyond Ole.
• Also, I'm not convinced by the merit of the 'Ole is different. He cares.' argument. How does that even matter? And why did LVG not care? Ole is not here to love the club. He's here to manage it well as a proper professional. Great player for us but nobody is doing any favours nor can they afford.
• And finally on to the job that he's actually and I'm not really seeing these elements in his management that you have. For me it's simple - I like the work Ole has done off the pitch (Youth, feck yeah) but not the work that he's done on it. Off the pitch I like our direction, but on it we look a mismanaged mess again. But I'd give him till January to see whether he can prove himself.
• And finally the players. I mean, we've been down this road before. These aren't LVG or Moyes players.

Would rather you weren't so condescending, but hey ho.

All those words, but they don't actually go to the nub of the issue: how is supporting a club and by extension, wanting it to do well but not support the manager to do the best he can with the tools he has at his disposal, NOT in of itself a logical fallacy? It literally doesn't compute.

I never said that they ARE the club. And I literally didn't even mention the Glazers or Ed. I solely spoke about Ole and the position of the manager. The role of the manager is also one that has permanence, for as long as Utd exist there will be a manager. The person in charge may change and he may or may not enjoy approval, but it depends on how that person upholds the values of the club, therefore, he is like I said, the custodian of the club. If he isn't a good custodian for various potential reasons (a la, Moyes, Jose, and to a lesser extent LvG) then they are open to criticism. But when you have someone like Ole, who genuinely has the club's best interests at heart; has been willing to forego on signing players not suited to his vision, and has moved on players who very many of us were desperate to be rid of; all of which was done despite having less than ideal backing from a board who have set him up to fail, I can't see why anyone would feel that HE is to blame as opposed to the wider context.

See, I disagree that everyone wants Ole to succeed. You only have to look at the posts in this very thread to see how much disrespect he has been given by people who aren't even fit to scrub the dirt off his shoes. I see it as being from people who are usually a combination of reactionary turncoats who support one minute and want to burn everything to the ground the next; as well as people who made a snap judgement in the heat of the moment and would now rather be proven right than actually admit that they may be wrong. Even in our victories, these people are drawing on the negatives. If it was about supporting the team and the club, they'd be delighted - but again, as this thread shows, they aren't. And they aren't supporters by their very definition. These would be the same people who would have been asking for SAF's head in 1989 or in 2005.

LVG didn't care - he literally only bothered about the first team and only used the Academy when he was desperate, which is why debuts were given to so many players who were not going to be long-term players. Moyes cared, but was out of his depth. Jose, well... Let's not go there. Ole has shown in his actions and words that he cares. One of his very first actions as interim manager was to integrate Gomes, Greenwood and Chong when they had been previously discarded by Jose. He shipped out so much of the deadwood when in the short-term he would have been well within his rights to keep them after Ed and the board screwed him with the lack of incomings. Are these sort of actions of a careerist manager? Or is it someone who knows where the issues lie and is doing his best to resolve them, even if it puts his job at risk?

Any judgement on Ole as far as I'm concerned is moot simply because he hasn't received the backing from the board this past year. If we were in such a way after he bought the amount of perceived quality players LvG did, or the quality of players Jose did after their first seasons I'd still be wary of going overboard in any judgements, but would at least understand if someone else did. Ole simply hasn't had that support from the board. The players he did sign, have been three good additions. That alone should tell you that he has an eye for a good player. The fact that we seem mismanaged, I again put that down to the players. You might not want to go there, but the fact remains. These players have a history of switching it on and off. How can the same players under the same manager be so abject after previously being brilliant? It's not even about talent, but professionalism. And a lot of these players have proven they are deficient in it. You could put any other manager in this squad, and they'd come up short.

I genuinely laugh at the people who think all our problems will go away if Ole goes. Do you really think a better manager would do well with a board who see it fit to give new contracts to underperforming players? Or one which actively refuses to buy players for the manager? Put it this way, if Ed and the Glazers were in charge of Pep at City after his first season, Bravo would still be their first choice keeper, and Sagna and Clichy would be coming up to their testimonial seasons. That is the difference between a good football structure, and a bad one. No serious manager would want to work under such limits. Not when the overarching plan or vision is chucked out and renewed with every change of manager.

 

[Foxbatt]

Yes let's only get players who only want to play free for Manchester United.
We have had so many players in the past who are ardent supporters of other clubs coming to United and giving their all. This is professional football and not a pub team.
As another poster has said we all wanted Ole to succeed but in reality he does not seem to have the experience and tactical nous to do it.

 

[red4ever 79]

At least he brought back the club uniforms being worn for away games.

 

[rotherham_red]

Agreed.

We've had 2 different sets of coaching staff go at these players and none of them can get good football out of them regularly - but there is FLASHES of it which show the skill level is there. I have no idea what the answer is, but I do know there's plenty of better footballers out there that could improve us.

The fact Dan James, Maguire and Wan Bissaka have all come in and looked our best players sums it all up really.

The only 3 players that are safe from our team is De Gea, Pogba and Martial (as long as he's motivated) the rest could all happily be replaced in my eyes.

Personally yes I think Fred and Mctominay with Pogba at the 10, would make a better team than Pogba, Mctominay and Mata/Pereira/Lingard at the 10.

Mata/Pereira are too slow, want too many touches and can't hold the ball under pressure. Lingard can, but he's shown he has zero output and would prefer to play the safe option and "keep it ticking" rather than be dangerous.

Pogba for me is our best 10 as he's got the killer pass, can shoot, can hold the ball, can be an aerial threat and and can drive us up the pitch when defending. He would need to work on his pressing from the front but that's the least of our worries.

Agree with almost everything you said there mate. I'd add Rashford and maybe McTominay to that list with Pogba, Martial and DDG personally, but I know that is an unpopular opinion these days. I like McTominay as well, his character is that of a Utd player - maybe not a starter, but you can see that he has it. Mata's legs have gone and I love the bloke, but he's done. Pereira has lost that spark that he had when he was 19, he's a shadow of the prospect he was back then.

As it is, I think things will eventually come to a head and Ole will throw the likes of Greenwood and Gomes in. Pogba and Martial can't come back quick enough.

 

[Vidyoyo]

Not incoherent at all. And there’s absolutely no doubt you’re right.

The question is, how do you create the right mentality? Is it something players are born with, or can it be coached? I’d say the latter.

Look at England in the last days of Hodgson’s reign, and compare it to the last World Cup. I’m not saying Southgate is a top manager at all, but he gave the players simple instructions as to what they should be doing; the players understood and were able to follow those instructions and their confidence levels rocketed.

Footballers aren’t the brightest, and are used to playing in rigidly enforced systems in academies. They need to be given directions they understand and feel able to follow. That’s how you build confidence. And I’m not seeing it from Ole and his team.

Much as I love Uncle Pat, the notion that it would help if ex-players were brought in to tell the players how it was better in their day seems completely bonkers. Sentimentality seems to be Ed Woodward’s driving force right now, so I could see it happening

Agreed and it can definitely be coached with the right person. Look at Liverpool and City, and to a lesser extent Leicester under Ranieri.

I think you can infer that the confidence levels skyrocketed after Mou's exit and that the negativity of his leadership was a huge problem. I'm not convinced Solskjaer really did much except give the players a new lease of life by believing in them, which was great for the fans and had a fantastic short-term reward on the pitch.

At the same time, it seems his weakness was using this same approach as the long-term solution. It hasn't worked in the long-term because it isn't really a philosophy at all.

Parallels to Guardiola can be made because he is exceptional at getting the best out of his players. He questions them all the time, creating a perfect balance of positivity and challenge. The comments Solskjaer made last week about Rashford not getting goals were really poor given that he was effectively letting him off the hook for being shit.

Anyway, it's a weakness with Solskjaer. I think most people know it as much of a legend as he is at this club.

It's a weakness of the board too in not evaluating what makes a successful manager - although part of me thinks they're fine with it as they expect us to be in transition.

We have a young squad but you think the veteran players would kick the young players up the ass. I don't see any characters that fit that mentality. Rooney, Vidic, Evra, Rio, from SAF days were all capable of that. Apart from Zlatan, I can't think of any player that can be that player, to lift the mentality. We have a squad of individuals. Maguire can be that player but Young, Jones, DDG, are not that type of personality. Young may try but he just doesn't pull if off.

You would think Pogba is that man based on his WC performance and the way he was a leader in the France dressing room but he appears to be more involved with a move away than wanting to take his place as a leader at United.

This too. I think in fairness to Pogba though he's a feel good leader, not the type who demands more from others. He needs strong players around him as well.

 

[JK-27]

I think it is bizarre that once again we are discussing a Utd manager being sacked mid season. Moyes & Jose were both let go before the season fixtures were completed, arguably LVG was let go mid-season as well, because we all knew it was coming well before the season end. Now we're discussing Ole joining the list.

Is this what we've become now? And what good managers are generally available for new jobs mid-season? If Ole does go are we once again going to have a 'temporary' manager who then gets a run of good results to become the 'permanent' manager, only to then not kick-on and we're back at square 1?

Club is a fecking shambles at the moment and it's time we held Woodward to account.

 

[Gavinb33]

Other than the early part of his reign I cant see any progression in fact its regression, if we were still playing decent stuff but losing the odd game I'd be happier but the fact is we dont ever look like scoring goals, we dont even create a lot of chances and even if we haven't got all the players we want we should be more threatening than we are