fecking hell, by that barometer we won't have a manager that lasts a whole season!
Ole Gunnar Solskjaer | W15 D2 L4
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
- Start date
Exactly. Judging managers on min by min performance means there isn't any good manager in the world.
Club legend, iconic striker, huge in Norway and to some degree Scandinavia how is that not good PR? You think a club as big as United make managerial appointments based on PR reasons? Moyes, LVG and Mourinho have been anything but good PR.
It might be good PR naming Ole as manager but PR is not going to be part of the consideration when making a decision.
It makes perfect sense.
You're adding a comma where there isn't one.
I see it now, too early, need caffeine.
That was the same excuse people, including me, used for Mourinho, i.e using dogshit performances under SAF to justify Mourinho. And I have seen error in my ways. I’m just hoping Ole won’t use the same excuse to go defensive most of the time. Pep and klopp failed in their first season in terms of getting results but they stuck by their way. Just hoping for the same for Ole because if not then I rather have poch, and I don’t rate him too highly tooIndeed. Such short memories of some fans, its as if we never had any dogshit performances in the second half when SAF was the manager, neither has it got anything to do with the fact the lads look knackered after xmas, neither are any other teams in the top 4 out of sorts at the minute following the busy xmas period
Nah, right now style of play is more important. I rather we stick to attacking football and not get top 4 rather than get top 4 with Mourinho style of football.
Maybe you have issue with comprehension. I’m not saying Brighton match was a total mess. I’m saying if that last 20 mins against Brighton becomes the norm, as in we keep seeing that for like 60 mins for many of our matches then it’s unaceptable even if we get 1-0 wins
Erm, no, no it's not.
Winning games and counter attacking have always been the United way. We're in transition with a caretaker manager right now, if you're expecting Barcelona-esque football over night you're going to be bitterly disappointed and judging a manager on 30 or so minutes at Tottenham and 20 or so minutes against Brighton, when a team is visibly tired is just absurd.
You've obviously forgotten how dull we were under Fergie in his last couple of seasons.
No, maybe the issue is expectation. No team is going to attack for 90 mins and completely shut out other team. Every team will have their moments.
Also our fitness levels suck, no wonder team can't keep going on for 90 mins.
The beauty part is we are not going to judge him with only Brighton and spurs game, we still have Burnley Leicester and the rest of the season. He has done well in my opinion but I’m seeing a slight in momentum. I want him to be the real deal but if he is not we also have to say it like how it is.
Again, it’s not the results that matter, we want style of play and consistent performances after our last 3 managers debacle. We have to get it right with our next one.
We are united. We should have expectations. I can accept once off like what we did against Brighton but if that’s the norm then no.
That final line about the final seasons under Fergie is something I feel a lot of people seem to have blanked - after selling Ronaldo & bringing Valencia in 2009, we became a more workmanlike side rather than a swashbuckling pacey side (still had moments such a counter attacking goals vs Arsenal Away).
In fact because between 2009 & SAF retirement in 2013, We won 2 out of 4 league title, coming within 1pt & then GD of making it 3/4. Made a Champions League Final 2011 & Won League Cup 2010, no one cares to much about change in style from what I would call United best ever style/side of 2006-09 suggesting we all deep down value achievements in competitions over performances.
Remember in 2012/13 during the 1st half of the season Utd would go 1-0 or 2-0 down only to come back so often, we’d sing ‘bend over & take it we come from behind’. - not one of us look back disappointed at our defending or performances, we think of Winning the championship & all of RVP’s goals (Villa Volley & Man City Free Kick)
I think almost everyone here is on the same page. We all want Solskjaer to be appointed unless the wheels come off and we don't don't recover but if he gets top 4, playing shit or not, the job should be his and rightly so. There's no way we're going to return to the football of Mourinho under Solskjaer so that comparison just doesn't make sense.
Go to the gym every night this week and do proper intense sessions, then on Saturday go and do a huge session. Do that for the next 4 weeks and tell me that you operated at high intensity every session for the full amount of time. What you're asking for is physically impossible. It's fine having expectations but they can also be unrealistic.
You have to grind out results some times and you forget that some of these teams are fighting for survival or have been waiting all season for this game. For me, what's incredibly impressive so far is that despite having spells where we haven't controlled the game, we've still come away with maximum points. Actually the stuff of Champions.
When we were top of the league under Fergie, coming into the last 10 games, scraping 1-0 wins, getting lucky penalties or own goals I didn't hear anyone calling for his head because 'attacking football is more important'. Just get the feck out there, score as many goals as you can but most importantly, win the fecking game and make sure everyone know's we win by any means necessary.
That was Chelsea mistake with their ucl winning manager and our mistake with Mourinho finishing second last season. Both got the extension because of results instead of style of play.
As I said before, don’t use SAF as a barometer. That just breeds excuses. SAF have so much good will done I won’t even say he is wrong if he is wrong.
This feels counter-intuitive but you are so right.
A focus on style of play is better than a focus on results... I think even when we finished second last year, no one was really thinking "Wow! Manchester United are back"... because the style of play did not support that view.
Manchester City and Liverpool, even Spurs actually, have shown that if your focus on style of play, results are more likely than not to follow. Whereas our last 2 managers have shown that focusing on results is not a winning formula.
This forum is fascinating, because it really highlights the different perceptions people have about football. Some seem to think a team's performance is almost like a trip to Sainsbury's... You just buy and change what you want... You dictate what you consume and enjoy, and do not appreciate external factors that effect things.. Football has become this way, due to it's coverage, branding, and the polarisation of where money goes. Some people fully expect to see what they think a football team or player should play like or perform.
The performances against Spurs and Brighton were typical Prem league, and highlight where we are. This is not Ole/Phelan's team, and they are just improving what Mourinho' left them.
Let's see how Ole and his coaching team continue. They have been nothing short of fantastic so far.
I also do sense that they are running the rule book over the whole squad, in terms of quality and personality. I expect significant changes in the summer because I would doubt whether Ole etc are completely happy. But he is here to assess and rebuild. And he is doing v v v well.
Some right miserable cnuts on here.
An away win at a team who are having a considerably better season is a fantastic result. We also played very, very well for 60 minutes and before having to hang on at the end. This is typical of what we saw hundreds of times under Sir Alex when we were at the peak of our powers. Yes, the keeper had to make some saves, but that's why he's there. It's not a crime to have a good keeper and to hang on showed character, that's not a weakness.
Cantona and Schmeichel alone have practically won us titles in the past.
The last game we again tired towards the end and squandered chances to make it 3-0, but once more, we played some great football.
No, we didn't win 5-0, but we won't win all games 5-0 and we never have.
Unlike sides of the past, this one is adjusting to a style that many of the current starting eleven have never played at Manchester United.
We've gone from monotonous possession-based to ultra cautious under the previous two managers and are now changing our style mid-season.
It's working too, but it won't be without problems. Players will tire, confidence will wobble, but look at what they're doing and try and bloody enjoy it.
The doom and gloom attitude of some people on here is a disgrace. Go and yell at a cloud.
An away win at a team who are having a considerably better season is a fantastic result. We also played very, very well for 60 minutes and before having to hang on at the end. This is typical of what we saw hundreds of times under Sir Alex when we were at the peak of our powers. Yes, the keeper had to make some saves, but that's why he's there. It's not a crime to have a good keeper and to hang on showed character, that's not a weakness.
Cantona and Schmeichel alone have practically won us titles in the past.
The last game we again tired towards the end and squandered chances to make it 3-0, but once more, we played some great football.
No, we didn't win 5-0, but we won't win all games 5-0 and we never have.
Unlike sides of the past, this one is adjusting to a style that many of the current starting eleven have never played at Manchester United.
We've gone from monotonous possession-based to ultra cautious under the previous two managers and are now changing our style mid-season.
It's working too, but it won't be without problems. Players will tire, confidence will wobble, but look at what they're doing and try and bloody enjoy it.
The doom and gloom attitude of some people on here is a disgrace. Go and yell at a cloud.
I don't think anyone is really raising serious complaints. It's simply the observation that we seem to fade in the final quarter of the game and something that can be worked upon. Ferguson had us occasionally under the cosh and saw it through but it can't happen consecutively too much.
We were lack lustre vs Reading, spent the last 30 mins keeping Spurs at bay and spent the last 30 mins keeping Brighton to minimal chances.
I think there's more to be happy about in that we created enough to put games beyond the above sides, but the fact that we didn't and then went on to make it a nervous quarter is probably something to work on.
I have little doubt Ole and Phelan will address it anyway, he hinted as much in the post match.
If the last three managers have taught us something, its that something that works in theory doesn't necessarily mean it would work in practice. "Cut from the same cloth as SAF", "modern possession philosophy", "proven winners" were managerial qualities that the club thought we needed with each respective manager but the end result was the same: a feeling that overall coaching was deficient, the tactics seemed wrong as team was disjointed and played as individuals, and the players seemed to stop caring about winning. Glaring errors in some players remained unaddressed for seasons, player selections were so wrong that even fans could see it, etc. I stopped caring for new signings as consistently, they played their best football in their first few games and gradually dropped down to our soul sucking incompetent football.
With Ole, for the first time it feels like we are getting close to the maximum out of our squad since SAFs time. I look forward to new signings as I am confident they can make an impact, there seems to be a coherent system with a settled first XI. Players have been rejuvenated. Watching us has become entertaining again.
If Ole is able to continue these aspects till end of the season, and even if we don't get top 4, I would retain him. Even if we have Pochettino or Zidane or someone else who on paper is a better managerial option. Because if there is one thing our six years of experience has shown, on-paper doesn't translate to the real thing. And if Ole is being able to make it work, then even if we don't understand why, let's just keep going with him.
With Ole, for the first time it feels like we are getting close to the maximum out of our squad since SAFs time. I look forward to new signings as I am confident they can make an impact, there seems to be a coherent system with a settled first XI. Players have been rejuvenated. Watching us has become entertaining again.
If Ole is able to continue these aspects till end of the season, and even if we don't get top 4, I would retain him. Even if we have Pochettino or Zidane or someone else who on paper is a better managerial option. Because if there is one thing our six years of experience has shown, on-paper doesn't translate to the real thing. And if Ole is being able to make it work, then even if we don't understand why, let's just keep going with him.
Good post.
I think Friday will be a real acid test, a win over Arsenal and Spurs already would mean he has nearly proved himself in my opinion.
Do that, keep consistency and the good attacking football. I think he's gonna achieve a high league finish and knows what Man Utd are about instead of Mauricio Spurs who barely ever makes a transfer so could end up wasting money like other managers
Do that, keep consistency and the good attacking football. I think he's gonna achieve a high league finish and knows what Man Utd are about instead of Mauricio Spurs who barely ever makes a transfer so could end up wasting money like other managers
You're comparing apples with oranges.
Solskjaer isn't a defensive coach, he's managed for 10 years and never produced the football akin to Matteo or Mourinho. His teams have always been attacking so being worried about a 20 minute spell at Brighton doesn't make any sense.
Good post mate.
Mauricio Spurs took about 5 seasons at Spurs to get his best half of attacking football, whereas Ole has got the attacking football here from the start.
Mauricio is just a sterile possession watered down version of pep who is unproven in the transfer market
We started flying under Ole but still looked suspect at the back so its no suprise that he would look to make adjustments that try to make us more solid, while trying to maintain our attacking sense. He has us playing in a way that creates good chances, enough to score 5 when thats been a pipe dream in recent years, his focus will now be to improve the overall performance of the team. Like you said, we aren't going to win them all 5-0 and be flying at all times. I'm personally loving all aspects of the ole revolution.
I think a degree of realism would be beneficial too.... What would happen is Pogba was to lose form, pick up a couple of yellows, need a rest.... ? he is significantly involved in the majority of our goals and all round play at the moment. It's too dependant on him, and I have little doubt that addressing this would be a priority for Ole/Phelan etc. We have to shift that match-winning expectation and requirement away from one player. Rashford is responding to this incredibly well, but others have to also do so, because players get tired, lose form, pick up bookings, muscle strains etc...
Good post you blue....
Just kidding. Well said.
No doubt, I would imagine that Lingard would be likely to drop back into the midfield three if we take Pogba out of that advanced position. I think how we are our playing, combined with the system, gives us a bit more flexibility. Alexis could also fill that role.
The funny part is I hope you are right. If he can stick to his philosophy and able to keep it going then we have ourselves a winner. Let’s hope this minor blip is nothing and we will see what we saw in the first four matches when we play against Burnley and Leicester. Even if we lose it doesn’t matter as long as we stick to high intensity attacking play. That’s my current stance anyway.
Tell you what, I hope you re-evaluate your stance if we lose both those games because Fulham played brilliant football in the Championship last season and it got them relegated this season because they can't see out a game. We have played high intensity attacking football in all the games Solskjaer has managed, our counter attacking has been breathtaking in parts, particularly the Rashford goal against Tottenham, and the stats back up that we're the most counter attacking team in the league currently.
I for one certainly hope that this blip you talk of continues for the rest of the season and beyond because we're currently undefeated.
Mull this conversation through your head for the next couple of hours:
United fan: We play the best attacking football in the league.
Liverpool fan: Yeah but you lost to Burnley, Leicester, Wolves, Southampton etc.
United fan: Yeah, but we play the best attacking football in the league.
Liverpool fan: But you finished 5th.
United fan: Yeah, but we play the best attacking football in the league.
Liverpool fan: But Liverpool/City won the league and you won nothing.
We're effectively Tottenham in that scenario and I don't know about you, that doesn't sit well with me.
Messi and Ronaldo say hi.
Who we expect to win us the match differs from match to match to be fair. We're not built on one individual.
You are confusing style of play with effective football. Arsenal for about 10 years have illustrated that.
You cant play at your best every week is all i was trying to say. In most games so far under Ole we have started well, its more a case of tired legs in the second half when we faded out or not adapting with formation changes or better use of subs (other than spurs who literally threw the sink and the kitchen cleaner at us).
True, but I hope we can agree that Arsenal's problem was and is mostly a lack of investment in their team... The style of football they play plus some good development in the players (be it brought in or built up) and the story would be quite different.
Arsenal bought the wrong players, on too many occasions. You can't go seven, eight seasons without decent, ball-winning midfielders, and not have two good centre halves. That was Wenger losing his way, and falling behind emerging coaches.
A bit like Mourinho' is in danger of doing.
Found this on YouTube figured I'd share. Some interesting selections.
I disagree. The problem for Arsenal was Wenger for too long focussed on style of play over effective football, and elite players lost faith in Arsenal as a competitive team. You need to be pragmatic to have consistent success and challenge for non-domestic cups. I have no interest in playing “nice football” and not getting the job done.