Ole in. Who's with me?

[Crustanoid]

I wish all those spending time trying to remove our manager, would put that effort into removing the parasitic owners.

This

Unfortunately, in true Little England Gammon style they can't see the bigger picture and are easily brainwashed.

 

[lex talionis]

All of the “improvement” we’ve seen over the last year comes back to Bruno. Who else on the squad has actually improved their play? System of play has stagnated at best.

There’s a case for Ole In, and for me it’s about letting him see through the end of the season unless we take a serious turn for the worse, but claiming our performances have improved in recent times is not at all persuasive.

 

[Champagne Football]

You make it sound like Ole wanted rid of Pogba which was simply not the case, he had plenty of opportunities to sell Pogba but continually insisted Pogba was his top man. It's only this season that Ole has dropped him. We dont know if anybody would have come in for him as it was Ole who wouldn't not countenance a sale.

As for Lukaku, he didnt replace him as we had less strikers in the squad after he was sold so we cant say he was replaced.

I would howver give Ole huge credit for getting rid of Lukaku, Fellaini, Darmain, Young, Sanchez etc. We are much better off without them and the squad is in much better shape now than when he arrived. The football is also much better so again credit to Ole for that.

Well to be honest I think what happened is the pandemic kicked in, Juventus told Pogba to forget about a transfer for now, Pogba had no choice but to get his finger out of his arse and start putting in some decent performances for a change. Ole probably mistook this as Pogba wanting to stay long term, when in reality Pogba and his mafia agent realized there was no other option but to give it 1 more year until the pandemic had passed, before throwing the toys out of the pram again.

But for whatever reason, Pogba turned up to the new season with zero motivation again with an attitude of 'Maybe the pandemic ends soon and I can force a move as soon as January if I put in my usual trademark half-arsed performances'

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

I'm still ole in, but only just, if he doent drop calamity dave next time he is having vaginal trouble or keeps starting le gobshite and condoning his disrespect of the club that will change.

 

[rhajdu]

I'm with you. In this year I have started to enjoy some of our matches once again. Last year I felt that our situation is hopeless, but Ole was a breath of fresh air for us. A lot of players were deservedly sold and a few players must still leave (e.g. Jones, Lingard, Rojo - effectively they already left the club), but we are already in a much better shape. I am impressed with his signings, last season we were one of the best defensive unit. It's a bit strange this season, but Maguire's adventure in Greece might be one of the main reasons for that.

He also made most of our players better. One prime example is Fred who didn't seem to be an actual footballer under Mourinho. He still have to solve a lot of issues (e.g. de Gea, Pogba), but it is not that easy. He needs time to finish the rebuilding of the squad and then let's see what happens. I would like to have consistency and for that you don't change managers every year or so.

Especially if the current manager is doing well. We are 5 points off from the top of the table with a game in hand. We didn't qualify for the knock-out stage of the Champion League, but in 2011-12 I saw the match against Basel... so no, that's not the end of the world. We were on pair with RB Leipzig and PSG this year.

Yesterday I also thought that we played well... I really liked how we were playing out from the back. Last year we were so bad at it, but with the same group of players we are capable of do it right now. It is a clear progress. Unfortunately, our attackers weren't clinical yesterday, but Rashford seems injured.

In the last few years I have usually visited RedCafe to get some news about the team, because I don't have Twitter and some of you post good sources, but since the lockdown I also read a few opinion about the matches and players. It always makes me feel a bit worse about our situation, but in most of the cases it doesn't make sense. A lot of people says that Ole is inept. A lot of people says that most of our players are bad. If the first statement is true, then our players must be fantastic. If the second statement is true, then Ole must be fantastic. If both statements are true, then last year's result and the current standing must be a miracle.

I think that the truth is somewhere in-between.

 

[Falcow]

I'm still ole in, but only just, if he doent drop calamity dave next time he is having vaginal trouble or keeps starting le gobshite and condoning his disrespect of the club that will change.

How many chances are you gonna give him to do that....seriously, if DDG hasn't been dropped by now, it's not gonna happen.

 

[Hughie77]

In so far, been saying for 2 seasons we need a proper striker. Cavani is not long term but hes shown given the service he will put it in the onion bag. If we can throw the cash to get a top top striker this team will win more games .

 

[Mike Phelan's Former Tash]

We are doing well. Better atmos, better performances, better future, best since Fergie. We are in a title race right now. There’s a witch hunt against him it’s sad to see. He’s doing a good job

This

 

[ShoePolish]

Signed. Doing well, considering we misfired summer transfer window. Huge disappointment with CL exit, of course, but see the reactions when the group was drawn, and only few probably expected us to be there on GW6

 

[redmanx]

Well to be honest I think what happened is the pandemic kicked in, Juventus told Pogba to forget about a transfer for now, Pogba had no choice but to get his finger out of his arse and start putting in some decent performances for a change. Ole probably mistook this as Pogba wanting to stay long term, when in reality Pogba and his mafia agent realized there was no other option but to give it 1 more year until the pandemic had passed, before throwing the toys out of the pram again.

But for whatever reason, Pogba turned up to the new season with zero motivation again with an attitude of 'Maybe the pandemic ends soon and I can force a move as soon as January if I put in my usual trademark half-arsed performances'

My thoughts exactly.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Well to be honest I think what happened is the pandemic kicked in, Juventus told Pogba to forget about a transfer for now, Pogba had no choice but to get his finger out of his arse and start putting in some decent performances for a change. Ole probably mistook this as Pogba wanting to stay long term, when in reality Pogba and his mafia agent realized there was no other option but to give it 1 more year until the pandemic had passed, before throwing the toys out of the pram again.

But for whatever reason, Pogba turned up to the new season with zero motivation again with an attitude of 'Maybe the pandemic ends soon and I can force a move as soon as January if I put in my usual trademark half-arsed performances'

This is what Pogba said in the press conference when he said it’s dream to play at Real Madrid:

"I think there will be a moment when the club will come and talk to me and maybe offer me something, or not."

He’s pretty much confirmed that the club never talk to him or even try to offer him something for new contract. Even his agent in the summer said Pogba is happy again and we are going to discuss about new contract. May be the club thinks it’s time to move on from Pogba because he’s not worth that 290k p/w or improved contract. Both the agent & Pogba know this and they started talking lot publicly.

 

[tjb]

I like Ole. I do think he has made improvements to the side, more so on the cultural and personnel aspect of the club than on the field. He's also proven himself to have some tactical nous and has rehabilitated the profile of the club to an extent. For me, his flaws are experience based and something that he can develop over time, but may need additional guidance to make that transition quick and presently invisible. United don't have time to wait for his growth; his inexperience has cost us this season. Tactically, I will begin there.

Ole took so long to find a tactic and finally had a good system at the end of last season. People like to talk about him being a counter attacking manager, but this system from June to August 2020) was a possession based one. With one midfielder ( Matic) dropping deep to give the back line more support passing the ball, the full backs pushing up, and the attacking midfielder ( bruno) coming a little bit deeper to support the other cm ( Pogba). We were dominant with it, scoring goals at will. But weaknesses were already evident with the tactic even before the season ended. It relied heavily on Matic to work, as he's the only player with the positional awareness to know when to drop deep and push up in that system. However, Matic cannot be used for every game due to his age, and in games where the opposition is pressing really high and hard, his lack of agility and speed is exposed, as he can't get back into position quick enough to protect the defence and Pogba's defensive awareness is poor. At the start of the season, neither Pogba or Matic were fit and we were completely exposed due to how reliant the system is on both midfielders. With neither being able to perform at the time, Ole completely scrapped the system and hasn't put one in place since. We are clearly good in our interplay down the flanks and in attack now, but since our build up from the back sucks, we only do this a few times in the game properly.

Ole also has distinct features of his tactical plan that irk me. The first is something that doesn't get called out enough. Ole copied the 4231 tactic, and imo has done it the wrong way. We have a formation that relies completely on our defenders and central midfielders to work the ball out of defence. We generally have 4 players waiting to receive the ball from defenders who are not paid to be expert passers. Furthermore, we don't have a midfielder like a Xabi Alonso Yaya Toure or Schweinsteiger to build up that way. Both Lindelof and Maguire are good on the ball, but we don't have the midfield to make themselves available or provide long passes, which forces us to keep the ball in our own half. Instead of coming to support a clearly struggling backline, our attackers stay high and narrow, which is why it takes so long. This is completely different to how we use to operate even when Fergie used a 4411. The wingers defended in the same line as the midfielders; so rather than having a 424 ( defensive shape of our 4231) that exposed our midfield 2, we had a 442; this meant that when the ball was building up or regaining possession, our midfield pair had options across, behind or in front of them to pass to. In our 424 ( where our attacking midfielder presses with the 3 narrow forwards), aside from Bruno, our forwards come deep to support the build up or return of the ball, which leaves us struggling for central interplay. Cavani provided this option when he played, but it doesn't occur enough. Rather than waste 4 forwards staying high or pressing high, we should drop Bruno deeper to provide build up support for our midfielders and defenders. We can also decide to wait till January and see how Amad Traore performs on the right flank, so that we can switch to more of a 4411 ( with Greenwood and Cavani rotating). What's clear is that despite having good forward interplay, we have consistently struggles to move the ball up the pitch, which has wasted our time in creating chances.

Finally, the need for us to play out from the back is really annoying. We are far too ponderous at doing it. We have really aggressive midfielders that can take advantage of goal kicks and have pacy forwards that would love the space that comes with a more disorganized game. Ole isn't Pep, he is not a master of possession football and therefore cannot create a system that can outlast the Pep's of this world. Pep can make it work, as these are mostly original and well studied idea's. He breathes and thinks possession football, Ole doesn't. Since that is the case, I don't see why we persist with it. We have the lowest number of long balls in the league....why? Why waste time doing something we will never be perfect with? I feel it costs us too much time and makes our defence far more vulnerable than they would otherwise have been.

 

[Amerifan]

The Ole In / Ole Out proposition is a false flag. It depends entirely on who would replace him. Lots of us might be “Ole Out” for a replacement in Klopp or Pep. Few if it’s Southgate, Big Sam, or Arteta.

Abstract Ole In / Out is inane and divisive. Can we drop this.

 

[Gazza]

I wish all those spending time trying to remove our manager, would put that effort into removing the parasitic owners.

Who is trying to replace the manager? This is a message board where people give their opinions.
What on earth do you expect people to do to remove the owners?

 

[Bebestation]

I feel like he has started to side Bailly, James, Lingard, Rojo, Jones, Grant, Romero and will continue to push Pogba, TFM Martial and Mata out of the squad when they are adequately replaced.

I kind of want to see that happen.

I'm personally okay with us not winning a trophy for a season or two, if Ole can sort our the deadwood of the squad.

 

[Red_Aaron]

I think he's done a far better job than most give him credit for and I think there's been a very clear and obvious media attempt to downplay his work because man utd failing earns more money for more wannabe bullshit peddling 'journalists' than anything else in sport.

I also think this season is such an exceptional circumstance as to make the outcome of it somewhat irrelevant. I appreciate not many will share this particular view but as a business owner who has experienced first hand the effects on commerce and the physical and mental health of everyone involved in my operation I cannot imagine the issues an organisation such as man utd have faced and will continue to face. Whenever I see transfer muppets getting frothy about sancho this or January that I just shake my head at the complete lack of perspective

But back to Ole

His squad shaping and the rebuilding of the clubs image have been brilliant, some fans really do have the shortest memories of the state mou left us in. Whatever you think of his managerial record (and you really can't argue with the trophies) he's a spiteful bastard when he wants to be and spent at least 6 months deliberately damaging the club in order to secure his payout. I don't care what he achieves with spurs any utd fan who thinks he should've been kept on is mental

I must say though I was very disappointed with the leipzig game and suffered my first real wobble in my Ole support. Its not losing the game as RBL are a very good side playing at home in a must win game, or even going out of the group which was very competitive and eventually hinged on 1-2 moments. What really annoyed me was the start in leipzig, having come off the back of 3-4 consecutive games where we've started poorly and gone behind it was unacceptable to see us start so poorly yet again in such a crucial match. Imo the one thing Ole should have achieved that day was to ensure at the very least that we were focused and up to speed from the first whistle. To start so slowly in that game practically confirmed our exit before we'd even got going and suggested we hadn't learnt our lesson.

I guess if I did have one growing concern about Ole it's whether or not he fixes these little themes quickly enough. I know a big part of his approach is to put the on-pitch responsibility onto the players whilst he takes all the flak off of it but sometimes you've got to make a bit of a scene on the touchline if you're not happy even if it's just berating the ref for no reason like saf would just to get into the players that you're not happy with how it's going, I do think Ole is too passive during the game sometimes

I never meant to ramble on this much btw!

 

[devips]

I am. (in response to OP)

 

[Lentwood]

I’m just treating Ole like any other manager. I set a reasonable objective at the start of the season and see how we do against it.

Last season I would have accepted anything in the top six, so we overachieved in my opinion. This year, it has to be a top four finish for me. We haven’t played CL football for two consecutive seasons yet post-SAF, so we need to start achieving that with regularity.

 

[sugar_kane]

I like Ole. I do think he has made improvements to the side, more so on the cultural and personnel aspect of the club than on the field. He's also proven himself to have some tactical nous and has rehabilitated the profile of the club to an extent. For me, his flaws are experience based and something that he can develop over time, but may need additional guidance to make that transition quick and presently invisible. United don't have time to wait for his growth; his inexperience has cost us this season. Tactically, I will begin there.

Ole took so long to find a tactic and finally had a good system at the end of last season. People like to talk about him being a counter attacking manager, but this system from June to August 2020) was a possession based one. With one midfielder ( Matic) dropping deep to give the back line more support passing the ball, the full backs pushing up, and the attacking midfielder ( bruno) coming a little bit deeper to support the other cm ( Pogba). We were dominant with it, scoring goals at will. But weaknesses were already evident with the tactic even before the season ended. It relied heavily on Matic to work, as he's the only player with the positional awareness to know when to drop deep and push up in that system. However, Matic cannot be used for every game due to his age, and in games where the opposition is pressing really high and hard, his lack of agility and speed is exposed, as he can't get back into position quick enough to protect the defence and Pogba's defensive awareness is poor. At the start of the season, neither Pogba or Matic were fit and we were completely exposed due to how reliant the system is on both midfielders. With neither being able to perform at the time, Ole completely scrapped the system and hasn't put one in place since. We are clearly good in our interplay down the flanks and in attack now, but since our build up from the back sucks, we only do this a few times in the game properly.

Ole also has distinct features of his tactical plan that irk me. The first is something that doesn't get called out enough. Ole copied the 4231 tactic, and imo has done it the wrong way. We have a formation that relies completely on our defenders and central midfielders to work the ball out of defence. We generally have 4 players waiting to receive the ball from defenders who are not paid to be expert passers. Furthermore, we don't have a midfielder like a Xabi Alonso Yaya Toure or Schweinsteiger to build up that way. Both Lindelof and Maguire are good on the ball, but we don't have the midfield to make themselves available or provide long passes, which forces us to keep the ball in our own half. Instead of coming to support a clearly struggling backline, our attackers stay high and narrow, which is why it takes so long. This is completely different to how we use to operate even when Fergie used a 4411. The wingers defended in the same line as the midfielders; so rather than having a 424 ( defensive shape of our 4231) that exposed our midfield 2, we had a 442; this meant that when the ball was building up or regaining possession, our midfield pair had options across, behind or in front of them to pass to. In our 424 ( where our attacking midfielder presses with the 3 narrow forwards), aside from Bruno, our forwards come deep to support the build up or return of the ball, which leaves us struggling for central interplay. Cavani provided this option when he played, but it doesn't occur enough. Rather than waste 4 forwards staying high or pressing high, we should drop Bruno deeper to provide build up support for our midfielders and defenders. We can also decide to wait till January and see how Amad Traore performs on the right flank, so that we can switch to more of a 4411 ( with Greenwood and Cavani rotating). What's clear is that despite having good forward interplay, we have consistently struggles to move the ball up the pitch, which has wasted our time in creating chances.

Finally, the need for us to play out from the back is really annoying. We are far too ponderous at doing it. We have really aggressive midfielders that can take advantage of goal kicks and have pacy forwards that would love the space that comes with a more disorganized game. Ole isn't Pep, he is not a master of possession football and therefore cannot create a system that can outlast the Pep's of this world. Pep can make it work, as these are mostly original and well studied idea's. He breathes and thinks possession football, Ole doesn't. Since that is the case, I don't see why we persist with it. We have the lowest number of long balls in the league....why? Why waste time doing something we will never be perfect with? I feel it costs us too much time and makes our defence far more vulnerable than they would otherwise have been.

Interesting post cheers, agreed on the passing out from the back. It gives every opposition team the time to get back into position and they know EXACTLY what is coming so are mentally and positionally prepared.

I don’t understand why we don’t from time to time launch one and catch the opposition off guard.

 

[slir32]

Not me. I would take Poch right now i don't care if he doesn't win us a PL he will get us top 4 year in year out to attract the players we needs to win the PL and that can be with another manager if need be.

 

[GBBQ]

The Ole In / Ole Out proposition is a false flag. It depends entirely on who would replace him. Lots of us might be “Ole Out” for a replacement in Klopp or Pep. Few if it’s Southgate, Big Sam, or Arteta.

Abstract Ole In / Out is inane and divisive. Can we drop this.

I agree with the sentiment and while I believe that Ole isn't the right manager to get us back to the top (though would always love to be proven wrong) what he has got in place would be tough to improve on for most managers so it can't be get rid of him for the sake of getting rid of him.

However I do believe there are still enough managers with the potential to improve things and would hope that United are keeping tabs on those who could be sound replacements in case there's a need to replace Ole at any stage. Given how many times United have changed manager post SAF they would be fools to expect any manager's tenure to exceed 3 years so they surely should be scouting managers at all times. in which case 'Ole Out' should mean we enact our well thought out contingency plan (though its highly unlikely we're in any way organised and will probably give it to Carrick til the end of the season).

 

[Jaqen H'ghar]

I agree with the sentiment and while I believe that Ole isn't the right manager to get us back to the top (though would always love to be proven wrong) what he has got in place would be tough to improve on for most managers so it can't be get rid of him for the sake of getting rid of him.

However I do believe there are still enough managers with the potential to improve things and would hope that United are keeping tabs on those who could be sound replacements in case there's a need to replace Ole at any stage. Given how many times United have changed manager post SAF they would be fools to expect any manager's tenure to exceed 3 years so they surely should be scouting managers at all times. in which case 'Ole Out' should mean we enact our well thought out contingency plan (though its highly unlikely we're in any way organised and will probably give it to Carrick til the end of the season).

Our board are a good example of the Dunning-Kruger effect. They don't understand football well enough to make the smart choices, but are ignorant enough to not realize it. They will just hire the highest profile manager available, irrespective of style and suitability.

Another point is that the boards incompetence, (lack of clear structure, this managerial merry-go-round, mediocre transfers) and the scrunity this job brings make the Manchester job less desirable, especially to up and coming managers. Failure at United could be devastating to their careers. Worth remembering Klopp turned the job down before going to Liverpool.