OMG.. Has anyone seen Rafa's Friday press conference?

WireRed

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I can't really agree, the way they went into free fall after the rant was hard to ignore.
Free fall? They drew the last 2 matches, I'd hardly say it was that atrocious nor does it provide enough evidence to say for sure that Keegan's interview prompted a loss of form.

Newcastle lost the initiative that season well before Keegan's tirade, it was their dodgy defence and lack of a winning mentality that cost them. Keegan losing the plot was just the icing on the cake which has been blown up into a bigger factor than it was with each year that has gone by, like most great myths actually.
 

Wibble

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Keegan's rant was a sign that he had lost it rather than the cause of him losing it.
 

mungy

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Looking back I feel for Keegan, that's real pressure in work there.
 

gooDevil

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Free fall? They drew the last 2 matches, I'd hardly say it was that atrocious nor does it provide enough evidence to say for sure that Keegan's interview prompted a loss of form.

Newcastle lost the initiative that season well before Keegan's tirade, it was their dodgy defence and lack of a winning mentality that cost them. Keegan losing the plot was just the icing on the cake which has been blown up into a bigger factor than it was with each year that has gone by, like most great myths actually.
I'm responding to his agreement with Rafa that mind games don't effect things, based on how Liverpool played after the famous 'fahcts rant'.
 

gooDevil

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Sir Alex gives credit to Jock Stein for his successful mind games against Aberdeen, I believe, when they lost a big lead and dropped the title to Jock's side after he claimed it was theirs to lose.
 

ghaliboy

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This guy is literally doing what you and I and everyone on this forum are doing. Sitting on the internet and talking shit about football. Be it a blog or a constructive tactical post. Literally on par with someone who has won the Champions League.

I know I would bite someones nut off to manage a remotely successfull football club and this pompus twat is 'waiting for the right opportunity'.

feck off. The guy is a bell-end.
 

WireRed

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Sir Alex gives credit to Jock Stein for his successful mind games against Aberdeen, I believe, when they lost a big lead and dropped the title to Jock's side after he claimed it was theirs to lose.
That he does, but on the other hand he's gone on record to state that the mind games slant is way, way overplayed. Let's face it, the winner of "mind games" aren't decided by who comes up with the most pertinent points or the funniest slant on the opposition or the season, it's decided by who finishes top, and whoever finishes top where I come from, finishes top because they have the best team on the field.

Fergie himself tried the same thing with Blackburn in 95, devon loch and all that bollocks, yet they held on to win the title, does that mean Dalglish is a superior player of the mind games than SAF? Or just that we succumbed to bad luck and a brick shithouse of a goalie having the game of his life at West Ham? I'd say the latter personally.
 

gooDevil

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They won 8 of their next 10 games after that rant. Our form was just so relentless that it didn't make a difference.
What hole did you pull that out of?

This thread starts on January 9, 2009. Liverpool's next 10 fixtures in the league:

Jan 10 Stoke 0-0 Liverpool
Jan 19 Liverpool 1-1 Everton
Jan 28 Wigan 1-1 Liverpool
Feb 1 Liverpool 2-0 Chelsea
Feb 7 Portsmouth 2-3 Liverpool
Feb 22 Liverpool 1-1 Manchester City
Feb 28 Middlesbrough 2-0 Liverpool
Mar 3 Liverpool 2-0 Sunderland
Mar 14 Manchester United 1-4 Liverpool
Mar 22 Liverpool 5-0 Aston Villa

5 wins, 4 draws, 1 loss. And 3 crucial draws right after the rant, coming off a 5-1 win away to Newcastle. That run is what lost them the title.

It may not be related, but it sure seemed like it at the time.
 

gooDevil

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That he does, but on the other hand he's gone on record to state that the mind games slant is way, way overplayed. Let's face it, the winner of "mind games" aren't decided by who comes up with the most pertinent points or the funniest slant on the opposition or the season, it's decided by who finishes top, and whoever finishes top where I come from, finishes top because they have the best team on the field.

Fergie himself tried the same thing with Blackburn in 95, devon loch and all that bollocks, yet they held on to win the title, does that mean Dalglish is a superior player of the mind games than SAF? Or just that we succumbed to bad luck and a brick shithouse of a goalie having the game of his life at West Ham? I'd say the latter personally.
I agree it's very hard to determine, and probably very overplayed. But I think there are a few people that footballers look up to whose opinion might effect them, like a Jock Stein or a Sir Alex Ferguson once he had de-perched Liverpool.

Especially with the quotes I read by the Liverpool players after the rant, it just seemed like it effected them negatively, they became very defensive clouded their minds with anger a touch.

Of course if they had been better it wouldn't have mattered at all, they would have won. But I don't agree the winner of the league wins the mind games 'stakes', it's whoever made the most impact with their words, it's just nearly impossible to really tell who that was.
 

WireRed

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What hole did you pull that out of?

This thread starts on January 9, 2009. Liverpool's next 10 fixtures in the league:

Jan 10 Stoke 0-0 Liverpool
Jan 19 Liverpool 1-1 Everton
Jan 28 Wigan 1-1 Liverpool
Feb 1 Liverpool 2-0 Chelsea
Feb 7 Portsmouth 2-3 Liverpool
Feb 22 Liverpool 1-1 Manchester City
Feb 28 Middlesbrough 2-0 Liverpool
Mar 3 Liverpool 2-0 Sunderland
Mar 14 Manchester United 1-4 Liverpool
Mar 22 Liverpool 5-0 Aston Villa

5 wins, 4 draws, 1 loss. And 3 crucial draws right after the rant, coming off a 5-1 win away to Newcastle. That run is what lost them the title.

It may not be related, but it sure seemed like it at the time.
In fairness, they finished with 86 points(enough to win it in most years), and strung together 9 wins and a draw from their last 10 games of that season, hardly the signs of a team wilting because their gaffer may or may not have cracked up.
 

FlawlessThaw

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Well at the time it seemed like Liverpool and Rafa were cracking up because they immediately went on a 3 game 3 draw run. It was overstated the impact but it was just how it felt. They turned it around by the time they came to play us at Old Trafford though.
 

Antisocial

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I know I would bite someones nut off to manage a remotely successfull football club and this pompus twat is 'waiting for the right opportunity'.
Which club would he actually be waiting for anyway? Assuming he's really not just sat there stuffing his face waiting for Dalglish to walk/get the boot, then really how many clubs can he seriously expect to come knocking?

He'll never be allowed to manage us (even the Glazers aren't that evil); City if they ditch Mancini can bring in ANYONE bar Sir Alex and maybe Pep so they'll have better options; and Arsenal won't be getting rid of Wenger anytime soon. That leaves maybe Spurs and the link with Chelsea, who you'd think would've acted by now if Roman had really lost any sense he's ever had.

Perhaps he's waiting for another sugar daddy to arrive on the scene?
 

ghaliboy

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Perhaps he's waiting for another sugar daddy to arrive on the scene?
To me it says he's not a good manager.
He's always been quite poor at man management and has exceled as a tactitian.

I wish he'd pick up the reigns of a rello battler and make or break his ability. If he fecked up and moaned then it would be plain as the eye to see that there's something wrong with his management style/ability and he's not as good as all the Liverpool fans want to make out.

[Quote="Deluded Scouse Bell-end]Wow I hope he doesn't manage City.. with a large slice of wedge and free reign it would mean the end for trophies for the other top four let alone Liverpool[/quote]

Shit like this pisses me off. Any flat track bully could come in and win a trophy, I still don't think he'd be able to handle the ego's. He's an arrogant twat. He'd clash instantly. He was lucky for me at Liverpool that he had the team united under Stevie G and diffused most of the tension through that link. Even toward the end of his reign it was sometimes obvious that Stevie G also thought he was a cock monster.
 

mkecane

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Some journalist was tweeting about mind games and Rafa a few days ago and said that Liverpool improved (points per match) after the rant. That may be, but in Liverpool's 8 matches between the rant and their trip to Old Trafford, the won 3, drew 4, and lost 1. United won 9 matches out of 9 in the same time frame.
 

kietotheworld

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What hole did you pull that out of?

This thread starts on January 9, 2009. Liverpool's next 10 fixtures in the league:

Jan 10 Stoke 0-0 Liverpool
Jan 19 Liverpool 1-1 Everton
Jan 28 Wigan 1-1 Liverpool
Feb 1 Liverpool 2-0 Chelsea
Feb 7 Portsmouth 2-3 Liverpool
Feb 22 Liverpool 1-1 Manchester City
Feb 28 Middlesbrough 2-0 Liverpool
Mar 3 Liverpool 2-0 Sunderland
Mar 14 Manchester United 1-4 Liverpool
Mar 22 Liverpool 5-0 Aston Villa

5 wins, 4 draws, 1 loss. And 3 crucial draws right after the rant, coming off a 5-1 win away to Newcastle. That run is what lost them the title.

It may not be related, but it sure seemed like it at the time.
Oh fair enough, they were talking about it on The Game from Monday and someone brought it up, although listening to it again it sounds like he said 10 of the next 12 games. Don't know where he got that from.
 

Denis' cuff

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Some journalist was tweeting about mind games and Rafa a few days ago and said that Liverpool improved (points per match) after the rant. That may be, but in Liverpool's 8 matches between the rant and their trip to Old Trafford, the won 3, drew 4, and lost 1. United won 9 matches out of 9 in the same time frame.
you'd've expected them to win two of those three draws as a rule and particularly during that period. They didn't. It wasn't free fall but it wasn't exactly inspiring. Looks like he inspired United though.
 

w'or bobby

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you'd've expected them to win two of those three draws as a rule and particularly during that period. They didn't. It wasn't free fall but it wasn't exactly inspiring. Looks like he inspired United though.
Thank f**k.
There is much to be thankful for in the FSW's reign - this is his best contribution.
 

gooDevil

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Yeah, free fall was the wrong term, sorry. But it was clearly their worst run all season. In the 6 games after the rant the drew 4, loss 1 and won 1. 11 points dropped in a period where United won all 6 games, as said above.
 

Amir

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Mind games probably don't make a huge difference, but in a title race, when every little thing can decide the outcome, having the manager lose focus on his team a bit in order to battle the other manager - like Benitez did with his list of facts - can have some effect. Just takes your eye off the ball a little.
 

gooDevil

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Phil Neville on Rafa fahcts and Pressure
It happened to me in 2000. I had an awful game against Vasco da Gama in the World Club Cup in Rio de Janiero, making mistakes that cost us the game. It preyed on my mind afterwards. The headlines the next day were: ‘Fiasco Da Gama.’ Stupidly, I read them and my confidence began to ebb away for months afterwards.


My passing wasn’t decisive, my tackling wasn’t as strong. Every time someone wrote about me, they would refer back to the Vasco da Gama game. All of a sudden I felt almost physically weaker. I had another nightmare against Real Madrid in the Champions League quarter-final three months later, when I wasn’t even showing for the ball on the pitch. I didn’t want it in case I made a mistake.


It was the first big setback I had faced in my career and I allowed the negativity to become all-consuming. At United’s training ground at Carrington, there is a picture on the wall of all the players jumping around and celebrating on the pitch at Southampton after winning the title in 2000. I’m there too, but to this day, when I see that picture, it reminds me of the emptiness I felt then. I didn’t feel as though I deserved it. I hadn’t contributed.


The feeling carried on through Euro 2000 under Kevin Keegan, where I had a poor tournament and then, a few months later, I had a relationship break-up which made my poor form even worse. I would be thinking about that during training or sat on the bench. I had allowed my mistake and my personal problems to grow into a nine-month career slump.


But, in time, I came out of that low period of my career. I learned from it and vowed never to let it happen again. I don’t mean the mistakes or the off-the-field problems, those disappointments are inevitable in any walk of life. I mean that I developed a mechanism so that whatever mistakes I made, I would bounce straight back. Whatever was happening off the pitch, I could put it to one side and maintain my form. Call it mental resilience or a strong mind, but that is what we mean when we talk about experience in a football team.


For sportsmen or women who want to be champions, the mind can be as important, if not more important, than any other part of the body. Nothing had changed physically about me in that period. There was no rational reason why a mistake should cause a collapse in form. It was the mind that did it. I was distracted.


Now think about the implication of that on a team. A collection of strong-minded individuals who have learned how to dismiss mistakes, disappointments and problems in their personal life make up a strong team. If the majority of the team have that then, as a unit, you are almost impossible to beat.


The two best teams I faced in my career were Juventus (1996-1999) and Arsenal (1997-2000). It isn’t so much the individual flair and skill that stands out, it’s the mental toughness. Think of the characters: Angelo Peruzzi, Ciro Ferrara, Paolo Montero, Antonio Conte, Zinedine Zidane, Didier Deschamps, Alessandro Del Piero; David Seaman, Nigel Winterburn, Martin Keown, Tony Adams, Emmanuel Petit, Patrick Vieira, Dennis Bergkamp.


You knew you would never break them mentally. If you have a core of characters like that, you win titles. You can carry one or two weaker individuals in a champion team, as I was carried in 2000, but not four or five.


And now we are at the stage of the season when we’re coming down to the sprint finish for the title and invariably the media will try to stoke up the issue of mind games. It is a phrase that annoys me. Mind games? This isn’t a game we’re talking about. People make it sound like hopscotch or an amusing sideline to the title race to entertain people. This isn’t a sideshow, this can be the main event. The mind can be the decisive factor in determining who wins the title. So stop using the phrase ‘mind games’, stop trivialising it.


We can all cite examples of teams losing their collective nerve, but let’s dwell on one because Rafa Benitez was saying this week that he didn’t think mind games were important in the title race.
I remember watching the press conference he was referring to, that infamous list of ‘facts’ he repeated, citing apparent favouritism shown towards Sir Alex Ferguson and United. We were in a head-to-head race with Liverpool for the title and, as I watched it, my first thought was: ‘That’s good for us. And that’s not good for you’. It wasn’t that we thought: ‘Rafa’s cracking up’. That would be crass. But he had created a hullabaloo and turned a minor issue into a major talking point. He had shown a chink in his armour. And if Benitez had allowed himself to become distracted, we knew some of his team would follow because the manager is the representative of the team, never more so than in press conferences.


Arsene Wenger once said the most important message he delivers to his team is not in his team-talks. It is in the two-minute sound bite he gives to television after the game. You’re not telling me Sir Alex doesn’t plan every headline he creates. He knows at this stage of the season, the pre- and post-match press conference are vital in terms of preparing the mind of his team and, yes, affecting the mind of the opponents.


After Benitez’s press conference, every headline, every media question, even the fans’ chanting would be dominated by the debate about whether he was feeling the pressure. And some of the players would start to believe he was and take their lead from that. Whether it was true or not doesn’t matter. I can guarantee you that if a footballer hears or reads something 100 times, a large percentage of them will start to believe it.


A coach once told me there are four factors that determine a players’ performance: his tactical awareness, his physical condition, his technical ability and his mental strength. Which is the only one that is variable at this stage of the season? Physically, the work has been done long ago to prepare you for this moment; technically, your ability is set in stone by now; and tactics, you can tweak a bit but you won’t make dramatic changes.
The one factor that is volatile is the mind of a player. And when does the mind start to play tricks on you? When you’re under pressure. And for footballers, that means in April and May.
It is true that injuries, refereeing decisions and sheer luck can play their part. But you can’t control those. What you can control, if you know how, is the mind. Every pundit, journalist, player or coach who is asked about Manchester United’s title chances will say something like: ‘They have the experience. They have the “know-how”. They’ve been there before’.


What they mean is they are relentless in hunting down titles and they have a manager and players with a collective mental strength to avoid distractions and overcome obstacles. Because there are signs that City are not as comfortable as they were a few weeks ago. Roberto Mancini missed the press conference after the draw at Stoke and he was critical of Mario Balotelli before and after the draw with Sunderland, which saw the striker arguing with his own team-mates. Are these the tell-tale signs that the pressure is beginning to affect them?
Mancini spoken about this issue a few months ago. He used an Italian phrase: ‘Avere il braccino,’ the arm becomes short, which is his way of saying the mind starts to play tricks on the body. ‘This is my worry for Manchester City,’ he said. Mancini knows all this. He has won three Serie A titles. And he also knows the title race isn’t over yet. But if his players are to win, they now have to demonstrate some extraordinary mental toughness.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...itles-won-head-stage-season-Gary-Neville.html