Our POTY 2019/20

United's POTY this season?


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Santoryo

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It doesn't really matter if Bruno's average score is higher. I'll take a 7.5 player with the occasionally 5/10 performance over a player that always gets between 6 and 7.
Of course his average would be better due to smaller sample size and he played with a better team. Put absolute donkeys in front of Bruno(equivalent to Lingard and Perreira) and his numbers will suffer.

Bruno played with Rashford, Greenwood and Martial in front of him, players that get him goals(win him penalties) and assists(can score screamers even from simple passes) even if he had off games, like his last 5 or so games.

I don’t see how anyone can give it to Bruno when he played basically less than half a season, and the last 2-3 weeks of the season he was pretty shit. And please don’t cite G/A stats as they provide 0 context.

I think it’s clearly Martial, but I can understand votes for Maguire as well. I think Rashford drops out just because of his injury and lesser impact after coming back from it.

Also can’t believe people are trying to use Caf ratings as statistical evidence of someone being better.
The bolded part seems to be deliberately ignored by some people. Not to mention those 3 weeks were arguably our most crucial of the season.
 

Nou_Camp99

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Caf's Top 10+ Season ratings
https://www.redcafe.net/players/2019-20/all
  1. Bruno 7.1 and 6 motm
  2. Martial 6.1 and 5 motm | AWB 6.1 and 5 motm
  3. Fred 6.0 and 5 motm
  4. Maguire 6.0 and 4 motm
  5. McTominay 6.0 and 3 motm
  6. Williams 6.0 and 2 motm
  7. Pogba 6.0 and 1 motm | Ighalo 6.0 and 1 motm
  8. Greenwood 5.9 and 7 motm
  9. Shaw 5.9 and 1 motm
  10. Matic 5.9
  11. Rashford 5.8 and 5 motm
  12. De Gea 5.8 and 3 motm
  13. Lindelof 5.7
*Removed the players playing 15 games and lower..

:nervous: Why is Rashford rated lower?
Isn't this his best season...
The fact Pogba has a higher rating than Rashford when he's been either injured all season or plain average speaks volumes about the football knowledge of most fans on here. Pogba has scored 1 goal all season for crying out loud and Rashford has had his best season to date.

The agendas are real. Paul Pogba could put his washing out on the clothes line and you'd get fans on here salivating.
 

He'sRaldo

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The fact Pogba has a higher rating than Rashford when he's been either injured all season or plain average speaks volumes about the football knowledge of most fans on here. Pogba has scored 1 goal all season for crying out loud and Rashford has had his best season to date.

The agendas are real. Paul Pogba could put his washing out on the clothes line and you'd get fans on here salivating.
There was a period where Rashford was terrible, that influenced the ratings a lot.

But you're right, the ratings are biased and can't be used as any sort of objective measure.
 

Nou_Camp99

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There was a period where Rashford was terrible, that influenced the ratings a lot.

But you're right, the ratings are biased and can't be used as any sort of objective measure.
Would this be the period where he came back from a career threatening injury? Not my words but the words of Van Persie.

22 goals in 44 games and the most assists of any Utd player across the season. How awful eh?
 

Rolaholic

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The fact Pogba has a higher rating than Rashford when he's been either injured all season or plain average speaks volumes about the football knowledge of most fans on here. Pogba has scored 1 goal all season for crying out loud and Rashford has had his best season to date.

The agendas are real. Paul Pogba could put his washing out on the clothes line and you'd get fans on here salivating.
I get you really don't like the guy but it's not all that surprising honestly :lol:

For 1 it's a much smaller sample size, hence why Bruno's rating is so high and above everyone else's, and the few times he was fit and did play he had decent to good games so it's not that hard to understand to me.

Rashford being rated so low overall is what's surprising to me though given how strong a season he had but I chalk it up to just how reactionary and harsh we are as a fanbase after losses and draws. All perspective and context flies out the window and everyone gets like a 5 rating on average irregardless of individual performances
 

He'sRaldo

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Would this be the period where he came back from a career threatening injury? Not my words but the words of Van Persie.

22 goals in 44 games and the most assists of any Utd player across the season. How awful eh?
No, he's played very well since the restart.

I'm talking about earlier in the season when Martial was out and he played at ST, surrounded by dross. I don't blame him as he was the only one likely to score, but there were some really poor performances in there. We couldn't buy a goal for a while.

For the whole season he's been very good but that was quite a low period for us as a team, and undoubtedly tanked his ratings.
 

Sayros

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The fact Pogba has a higher rating than Rashford when he's been either injured all season or plain average speaks volumes about the football knowledge of most fans on here. Pogba has scored 1 goal all season for crying out loud and Rashford has had his best season to date.

The agendas are real. Paul Pogba could put his washing out on the clothes line and you'd get fans on here salivating.
Have you been to the Pogba thread in the last three years?
 

Santoryo

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I get you really don't like the guy but it's not all that surprising honestly :lol:

For 1 it's a much smaller sample size, hence why Bruno's rating is so high and above everyone else's, and the few times he was fit and did play he had decent to good games so it's not that hard to understand to me.

Rashford being rated so low overall is what's surprising to me though given how strong a season he had but I chalk it up to just how reactionary and harsh we are as a fanbase after losses and draws. All perspective and context flies out the window and everyone gets like a 5 rating on average irregardless of individual performances
That stretch when Rashford played as a striker for us killed him with the Caf ratings. That's when all those nonsensical bubble threads etc became frequent and the Caf being Caf probably gave him 1s rating and whatnot.

The Caf is so kneejerk that even his great form couldn't get him to a 6 rating. I think even around December when he was indisputably our best player for a couple of months already his rating was still in the 5s :lol:
 

MadDogg

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It's either Martial or Rashford. Bruno was here for less than half a season and those are the two that carried us before that. My vote's for Martial as he was more consistent. Over the course of the season Rashford had a great period of a few months and hit the higher peak, but he also had a few periods where he wasn't playing well. Whereas Martial's only poor period was the first few games when Rashford was out, but he had already started turning things around when Bruno joined and super-charged the season.
 

OleBoiii

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Of course his average would be better due to smaller sample size and he played with a better team. Put absolute donkeys in front of Bruno(equivalent to Lingard and Perreira) and his numbers will suffer.
And on the flipside: poor games will negtively affect his average more severely...

I appreciate Martial and Rashford helping the team out in hard times, but Bruno has simply been outstanding overall. I don't care if the sample size is smaller. If Martial was close to being as good as Bruno overall, I'd let the longer season be the tipping point in Martial's favor. But I don't think it's even close.
 

Sayros

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I think it's great that there's at least three serious candidates for the award, and it's not as if anybody is wrong. What I don't like is to see Bruno being hailed as if he's changed everybody's game around without looking at it the other way as well and to see how players like Rashford/Martial (the latter especially) have made Bruno look better than he's been at times; it goes both ways.
 

Rolaholic

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I think it's great that there's at least three serious candidates for the award, and it's not as if anybody is wrong. What I don't like is to see Bruno being hailed as if he's changed everybody's game around without looking at it the other way as well and to see how players like Rashford/Martial (the latter especially) have made Bruno look better than he's been at times; it goes both ways.
Yea that's been the main thing bugging me about the accepted narrative of the season. Bruno's been an outstanding signing obviously and arguably our best since Fergie retired but I feel like everyone has raised their game individually as the quality in the side has gone up a few levels from what Ole had at his disposal in the first half.

Almost everyone has upped their game and improved this season, adding a quality player to that fold will only help them get the most out of each other including said player.

It's not a coincidence our attackers have had career years with him in our XI but on the flipside, it's not a coincidence that he's flourished playing with the best attacking talent he's played with so far in his career.

Feels like chalking up all the teams improved performances to a single player overlooks the fact that those players have all elevated their games in a variety of ways as well (DDG notwithstanding :lol: )

It's all a bit like why I really hope we get Sancho in this summer as he'd be playing in the best side he's played with so far in his young career and I'm confident that those around him along with himself would all benefit from it and become even better players together.
 

wolvored

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It has to be Bruno. Without him we would probably be 7th\8th. We were going nowhere fast until he turned it around and made us play something like a Fergie team. His vision inspired Rashford & Martial on another level. The wildcard Greenwood should be second. What a season he has had.
 

MissKatie

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I voted Greenwood cos of his potential and he has had a great season.
Bruno is the obvious answer but without Greenwood it would've been Maguire. Every game played and I can't remember many he had a bad one
 

Quinzaine

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Martial wasn't as good as post-lockdown the whole season. I'm not sure where this "he's consistent" claim coming from. That post by @Web of Bissaka shows cumulative data over the season, showing top 3 players for every month. Do you see how often Martial was in there?

So yes, this narrative that Martial's performance is boosted by recency bias is unfortunately right.
by his absurd idea of how a POTS award should be awarded, Aaron Wan Bissaka and Ighalo have had equally good seasons but it clearly doesn't work like that at all.
 

Isotope

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by his absurd idea of how a POTS award should be awarded, Aaron Wan Bissaka and Ighalo have had equally good seasons but it clearly doesn't work like that at all.
The nitpicking is really strong on this one.

This thread was made before/during the lockdown. It's about 50:50 between people that rate him and not, with a bit swayed to not rating him that high.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/has-martial-done-enough-to-be-backed-as-our-long-term-9.454584/

Do you think if he constantly as good as post lockdown the whole season, the consensus would be 50:50? :lol:

If Martial gets it, he gets it. He's still one of our best player anyway. I'm still happy that we finally have a striker that can be one of the best.
 

Quinzaine

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The nitpicking is really strong on this one.

This thread was made before/during the lockdown. It's about 50:50 between people that rate him and not, with a bit swayed to not rating him that high.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/has-martial-done-enough-to-be-backed-as-our-long-term-9.454584/

Do you think if he constantly as good as post lockdown the whole season, the consensus would be 50:50? :lol:

If Martial gets it, he gets it. He's still one of our best player anyway. I'm still happy that we finally have a striker that can be one of the best.

I don't think you're understanding my point though. Martial wasn't poor before the break. He has obviously improved since the restart, he's got 9 goals and assists in 9 games since we've returned and if he'd played like that all season he'd be the best player in the league. My point is that even though he wasn't as good prior to the restart, he was still having a good season by all accounts and him being the favourite for the award isn't recency bias. 16 goals and 5 assists by March having been injured for 2 months and having no Bruno, Pogba and Rashford for a huge proportion of the season is a good achievement. He was being supplied by James and Pereira for most of the season and yet his numbers and goal contributions in big games were at a high level. Even back then he was in contention for POTY, definitely less of a favourite but alongside the likes of Fred and AWB in the group behind Rashford. If we're being totally honest he's been very good since Bruno arrived. Scored 5 goals in the last 3-4 weeks before lockdown and was coming in to form, and obviously when you then factor in his post-lockdown form where he was one of the top performers (if not the top performer) in the league, his contributions in crucial moments in the last few games to secure top 4 when teammates were struggling, and his overall goal and assist record and Martial becomes a very worthy candidate for our player of the season.

Also I hate that thread, I spent too much time in there during lockdown trying to make sense of why Martial's place was under threat when there's 4-5 genuine problem areas in our team and Martial had barely been given the opportunity to fully show himself as a number 9 for us given the circumstances. Nice to see how quiet/positive it's become over the last month or so because for me his capability to lead the line for us has never been in question, it's just whether he can string everything together and do it consistently and it seems like he definitely can.
 

BenitoSTARR

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The way I see it. Bruno has had a big impact in a small space of time but over the whole season Martial and Maguire have made more of an impact.

The way I view POTY is that it should be someone whose contributed all season and who without we wouldn’t have managed to get 3rd. I believe Bruno fulfilled the second criteria but not the first.

Martial finally had the chance to prove his doubters wrong and provided the most enjoyable moments in terms of wow moment goals and of course an impressive hattrick along the way. He scored consistently throughout the season too and even without Pogba and Rashford he was trying to get us across the line.

Maguire for me has been Mr Reliable. 7/10 most weeks and fit for every game. Without him I think we’d have really struggled defensively. He’s had one serious lapse in the whole season and throughout has cleared the ball and won his battles. He’s not been flashy but he’s been key to the good finish.

Overall though Martial edges it. He’s provided the most joy, proven his doubters wrong and for me is emerging as the best of the next generation of PL strikers.
 

Eire Red United

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Between Rashford and Martial for me, with Bruno and AWB a bit behind.

Similar enough seasons from Rashford and Martial, both had bad luck with injuries but both looked unstoppable when on top form.

Bruno was class when he came in goes without saying, but he definitely faded away for the last few games, someone made a valid point above too about him playing behind Greenwood, Martial and Rashford is a great help for him, similar to how playing in front of quality like Bruno and Pogba obviously helped the front 3.

Awb had a great season too, tightened up the right side and his tackling is unbelievable
 

He'sRaldo

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The way I see it. Bruno has had a big impact in a small space of time but over the whole season Martial and Maguire have made more of an impact.

The way I view POTY is that it should be someone whose contributed all season and who without we wouldn’t have managed to get 3rd. I believe Bruno fulfilled the second criteria but not the first.

Martial finally had the chance to prove his doubters wrong and provided the most enjoyable moments in terms of wow moment goals and of course an impressive hattrick along the way. He scored consistently throughout the season too and even without Pogba and Rashford he was trying to get us across the line.

Maguire for me has been Mr Reliable. 7/10 most weeks and fit for every game. Without him I think we’d have really struggled defensively. He’s had one serious lapse in the whole season and throughout has cleared the ball and won his battles. He’s not been flashy but he’s been key to the good finish.

Overall though Martial edges it. He’s provided the most joy, proven his doubters wrong and for me is emerging as the best of the next generation of PL strikers.
Sounds about right. AWB could also fit the criteria you gave Maguire, but Maguire was ever-present more-so than AWB.
 

Isotope

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Penandes winning it again. Are those neutral voters biased also?


Stealing this from @roonster09
 

Bastian

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I think it's great that there's at least three serious candidates for the award, and it's not as if anybody is wrong. What I don't like is to see Bruno being hailed as if he's changed everybody's game around without looking at it the other way as well and to see how players like Rashford/Martial (the latter especially) have made Bruno look better than he's been at times; it goes both ways.
I don't think they've made Bruno look better than he is, at all. He's not singlehandedly won the games by himself. But this team was passing sideways, very slow tempo and predictable buildup, so he effectively allowed us to play non-soul-destroying football. And his mentality is infectious and his style is relentless (albeit, was run into the ground in the last couple of weeks of the season).

As much as Martial has improved - which is great and much needed - for me Bruno was quite easily the POTY.

Another reason why our defense was so "great" this season was because we played ultra defensive for the most part..
 

rotherham_red

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Rashford for me. While Bruno and Martial were also outstanding, Rashford turned up and was counted when we were perhaps at our lowest ebb and it was his goals which provided the platform for the run for the rest of the season. If it wasn't for those performances during those dark, dark days then no matter what Bruno or Martial did, it wouldn't have been enough IMO.
 

EwanI Ted

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So according to the caf, Martial is our POTY.
Sounds about right. Other players have shone too, brighter in short spells in fact, but Martial is one of the few players who performed well from the start of the season right through until the end.
 

OleBoiii

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POTY: Bruno

GOTS: Bruno vs Brighton

Goal of the season was tricky. Ighalo's goal vs LASK is the best individual goal, but the opponent isn't the strongest. Martial vs Waford is almost as good, but the opponent is stronger. But I'm a sucker for team-oriented goals, so my vote goes to the Bruno goal.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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How is the Martial vs Bournemouth goal not on the goal of the season list, would have been an easy winner for me. Anyway went for Fernandes against Brighton.

Martial got my POTS vote, been a cracking campaign.
 

Blood Mage

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My personal favourite goals were Martial's against Bournemouth and Maguire's against Tranmere. I guess I just prefer screamers over team goals.
 

Sayros

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I don't think they've made Bruno look better than he is, at all. He's not singlehandedly won the games by himself. But this team was passing sideways, very slow tempo and predictable buildup, so he effectively allowed us to play non-soul-destroying football. And his mentality is infectious and his style is relentless (albeit, was run into the ground in the last couple of weeks of the season).

As much as Martial has improved - which is great and much needed - for me Bruno was quite easily the POTY.

Another reason why our defense was so "great" this season was because we played ultra defensive for the most part..
We can disagree on that, but I'll just pick out the bolded part in your argument on why I feel Bruno is not my PotS. He's been here half a season, so if he's been off the last couple of weeks, where he'd still register an assist or penalty goal here and there (which was usually won by Martial, hence why he's made him look better at times than he really was), then he has a much shorter slack in my eyes because if you're going to be PotY when you've been here half a season, you can't have a couple of weeks off, it just can't happen in my eyes.

So for me, Martial is the clear winner, but to each their own.
 

VeevaVee

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Impossible to choose to be honest. Bruno obviously having a huge effect but only here half a season, Rashford great for half a season then injured then invisible. Maybe it should be Martial just for the consistency.
 

Santoryo

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This thing is also fan voted? Yikes.

Well in that case I'm seeing Bruno walking away with it.

How is the Martial vs Bournemouth goal not on the goal of the season list, would have been an easy winner for me. Anyway went for Fernandes against Brighton.

Martial got my POTS vote, been a cracking campaign.
Wondering the same
 

Borys

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Rashford in my choice. He's been playing whole season, put a shift on the left. Most importantly, scored good number of goals when we were pretty shit in first half of the season.

Dropped significantly in the last stage when Martial was on top of his game, which is worrying. It makes him less popular choice just looking at how he finished the season, but I think considering whole season he deserves it.

As for Martial, he was great since the restart but can't say how much impact has Bruno had on this. Same argument goes both ways.
 

roonster09

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This thing is also fan voted? Yikes.

Well in that case I'm seeing Bruno walking away with it.


Wondering the same
We have 2 awards, one voted by fans and other by players.
 

roonster09

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So there are 2 different POTY awards. In this case I see Bruno winning the fan voted one and Martial winning the other one.
Not sure this season but every season we had 2.
 

Raven

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Voted for Martial, in my eyes he's been far and away our best player this season.