Ousmane Dembele

[JPRouve]

It's always sad to see injuries seriously hamper the development of talented players. His general play was good but inconsistent and his numbers were mostly impressive for his age. For a moment there right before Barcelona bought him it looked certain for him to evolve into a special player, and Barcelona paid such a huge fee to see him realise his potential at their club. He hasn't really produced anything close to what he did at Dortmund and certainly hasn't evolved into a world class player. Martial and Rashford and a few others who struggled when he was good has surpassed him.

It is a good example to show the risk involved when trying to buy a youngster that looks like he'll become world class even before he's had time to really established himself. We did it with Martial and it paid off, but sometimes it doesn't and you are left with a player under half of the value you bought him for. It just shows it's not good to be desperate in the market.

It's actually pretty close, it's just that people's perceptions have changed based on Barcelona more than Dembélé himself. For Barcelona Dembélé registered a G+A every 114.6 minutes while for Dortmund he registered a G+A every 109.6 minutes, and the context in Barcelona is more challenging because he has never really had the opportunity to find his rhythm, Valverde has never made an effort to adapt the tactics to Dembélé's qualities.

Dembélé is very simple player, you put him on field and he will create and score goals whether he fits tactically or not. If you adapt the tactics, he will make the opposition defense look like clowns. And he is also a high risk, wasteful player who can do the most complicated thing and then next minute miss control a squared pass but he produces.

 

[Silas]

Barca won’t be looking for an option to purchase, it’ll be a commitment to buy or just a loan with zero agreements at the end.

Did they not do that exact thing with Coutinho? Which clubs would waste time with a straight loan?

 

[marc1_007]

Source?

https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/19/ousm...-manchester-united-transfer-man-utd-12579378/

Apparently he has asked Martial about what it is like at Man utd, I feel a lot more confident in him at utd with his international teammates Pogba and Martial as well as younger players like Rashford and Greenwood who are closer to his age, than at Barca with regards to professionalism.

Messi is the greatest but does it seem to you that anyone can tell him what to do at Barca and that includes the coach and the president. They basically give him a contract extension every year.
I am sure he has an inner circle and I bet Dembele is not in it. Think about all the skillful/Tricky players that have been at Barca at the same time as Messi, from a young Alexis, who came to the premier league and was one of the best players up until his transfer to utd, Neymar had to get away to forge his own path, Coutinho, need I say more. Look at how average Griezman looks right now and Dembele was a superstar in the making at Dortmund, look at how much he cost and all of a sudden he is always injured when he never had any injury problems at Dortmund.

I'm not saying Messi is a tyrant but I saw the way he just blatantly ignored the assistant coach the other day and I hear he is not on speaking terms with Setien, now imagine with this level of power over everyone, how does it feel to be the likes of Griezman and Dembele and the other players I have mentioned, especially if they are not in his inner circle and personally, I would not hold anything against any of these players because it could be a burden playing alongside Messi.

I would rather rate these players based on where they played before going to play with Messi or after they leave.
On that note, I absolutely want Jadon Sancho but in the event Dortmund price him out, then my first choice is absolutely Dembele. We sorted out Giggs hamstring issues, we will sort out Dembele's.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/19/ousm...-manchester-united-transfer-man-utd-12579378/

 

[-Supreme-]

It's actually pretty close, it's just that people's perceptions have changed based on Barcelona more than Dembélé himself. For Barcelona Dembélé registered a G+A every 114.6 minutes while for Dortmund he registered a G+A every 109.6 minutes, and the context in Barcelona is more challenging because he has never really had the opportunity to find his rhythm, Valverde has never made an effort to adapt the tactics to Dembélé's qualities.

Dembélé is very simple player, you put him on field and he will create and score goals whether he fits tactically or not. If you adapt the tactics, he will make the opposition defense look like clowns. And he is also a high risk, wasteful player who can do the most complicated thing and then next minute miss control a squared pass but he produces.

How do you rate him compared to Sancho when fit?

I'd love another two footed player like Dembele, we could do with another left footed player to balance our attack IMO

 

[Cliche Guevara]

Even last summer I thought he was genuinely better than Sancho and would go on to perform at a higher level.

Not so sure now, but I don’t know much more about him than I have read on here.

 

[MikeKing]

It's actually pretty close, it's just that people's perceptions have changed based on Barcelona more than Dembélé himself. For Barcelona Dembélé registered a G+A every 114.6 minutes while for Dortmund he registered a G+A every 109.6 minutes, and the context in Barcelona is more challenging because he has never really had the opportunity to find his rhythm, Valverde has never made an effort to adapt the tactics to Dembélé's qualities.

Dembélé is very simple player, you put him on field and he will create and score goals whether he fits tactically or not. If you adapt the tactics, he will make the opposition defense look like clowns. And he is also a high risk, wasteful player who can do the most complicated thing and then next minute miss control a squared pass but he produces.

That's what I'm saying about the injuries. I personally think he would have transcended into world class no matter tactics, if it weren't for his injuries. It just shows the risk with very young and highly expensive players, and I do think this is an interesting example. What is the status with his injuries, not sure how but I've come to believe his career could be at risk? It's not that serious?

 

[TheNewEra]

I'd genuinely stay away from Dembele, it's not just his injuries, but apparently his attitude isn't good either, he's the wrong kind of character.

Many reports from club officials about his attitude, missing training unannounced, feeling an injury and not going to get a medical and later getting injured, just lots of small things, not just the injuries but his attitude is completely wrong.

Reports of Messi/Pique saying he needs to be professional.

Not a player that should be anywhere near the United squad, I'd much rather have Sancho.

"Improve your attitude" - Deschamps' Dembélé warning - November 2018
https://en.as.com/en/2018/11/12/football/1542056100_981873.html

Abidal tells Dembele's agent that Barcelona are disappointed with the player's attitude August 2019

https://www.marca.com/en/football/barcelona/2019/08/23/5d603967ca47411d118b4572.html

Ousmane Dembele is on Barcelona's medical report again and the directors at the club are unhappy with the player's failure to go for a medical exam the day after feeling pain in the match against Athletic Club, something Eric Abidal has explained to the forward's agent.

"We're very disappointed with the attitude of Dembele," Abidal told the agent.

There was a similar meeting a year ago after Dembele missed training and now the club are urging the player to listen to his body.

https://barcauniversal.com/ousmane-dembele-a-perplexing-prospect/

This made him an incredibly versatile player, with him being available to play on both flanks. But it wasn’t just injuries that made Dembélé a headache for the Barcelona board. It was also his attitude problems. He was often late to training, played video games late into the night, had parties with friends and even missed training unannounced due to a stomach bug. His disrespect for club rules often overshadowed his performances with him even losing his place in the starting eleven.

Dembele and a sea of doubts May 2020
https://www.marca.com/en/football/barcelona/2020/05/12/5eb9bf9b22601de11e8b45bf.html

Repeated injuries have been the main problem for Dembele, irrespective of his attitude off the pitch, and he missed almost his entire debut season and couldn't make an impact.

There have since been a number of ailments which have prevented him from building any real consistency, whilst the Catalan giants have grown exhausted with his childish actions in his personal life.

 

[JPRouve]

How do you rate him compared to Sancho when fit?

I'd love another two footed player like Dembele, we could do with another left footed player to balance our attack IMO

It's difficult to answer, they are both brilliant but Sancho is less frustrating because he seems cleaner, I don't know if it's confirmed statistically but it looks that way. Dembélé can break a game every time he touches the ball, he has the ability to easily create havoc while Sancho is more methodical. For me it's a bit like Ronaldinho vs Messi if both players were in the same bracket level.

 

[Giggsy13]

Dembele is exactly the type of personality we’re trying to clear out of the squad. He could be had on the cheap for a reason.

 

[JPRouve]

Dembele is exactly the type of personality we’re trying to clear out of the squad. He could be had on the cheap for a reason.

What is that type of personality? Dembélé has no personality issues.

 

[-Supreme-]

It's difficult to answer, they are both brilliant but Sancho is less frustrating because he seems cleaner, I don't know if it's confirmed statistically but it looks that way. Dembélé can break a game every time he touches the ball, he has the ability to easily create havoc while Sancho is more methodical. For me it's a bit like Ronaldinho vs Messi if both players were in the same bracket level.

Thanks - I also have the same impressions.

 

[JPRouve]

That's what I'm saying about the injuries. I personally think he would have transcended into world class no matter tactics, if it weren't for his injuries. It just shows the risk with very young and highly expensive players, and I do think this is an interesting example. What is the status with his injuries, not sure how but I've come to believe his career could be at risk? It's not that serious?

His last injury is supposed to be really bad, I think that it's an hamstring avulsion meaning that the hamstring was completley detached from the bone.

 

[seegoblu]

Clearly the injuries are a concern and should be fully vetted before any type of acquisition.
I hope United would be open to a loan with an option to buy or a straight two year loan.

I would not be concerned about his attitude or professionalism.

I think going from Rennes II to Rennes to Dortmund to Barcelona in the space of 2+ years, with the last transfer at a top 5 valuation of all time, can justifiably mess with a teenager’s mental approach/professionalism. However, since he has not been as successful as he (and everyone) expected, he would be joining United having been forced out by Barca, at a greater than 50% discount to his value three years ago, who could only find a new club that was willing to acquire him on loan and not a permanent transfer, I would fairly expect he would report to Carrington Road chastened with an adjusted attitude and a desire to prove everyone wrong with a supportive dressing room dominated by peers and national teammates along with a manager who is predisposed to giving youth a chance.

In the absence of a Sancho deal, Dembele is my choice to plug the hole at RW.

 

[FootyGirl88]

I wouldn’t mind Dembele, Barca was the wrong move for him i think he would do well if he came here.

 

[Adisa]

At his best, he's more devastating than Sancho.
Don't know what the recurrent injuries to his hammy would have done to his explosiveness.

 

[E-mal]

What is that type of personality? Dembélé has no personality issues.

He's had issues with professional conduct like lateness to training and staying all night with games. But is less of the personality issue but more the recurrent injuries.
Sancho is the safer option but if our financies are tight then getting Dembele on loan with option to buy( no obligation ) for a set price then that will be nice.

 

[JPRouve]

He's had issues with professional conduct like lateness to training and staying all night with games. But is less of the personality issue but more the recurrent injuries.
Sancho is the safer option but if our financies are tight then getting Dembele on loan with option to buy( no obligation ) for a set price then that will be nice.

But Sancho has had the same issues with Dortmund, the way people say it you would swear that Sancho hasn't been sanctioned multiple times by Dortmund and Dembélé is the new Craig Bellamy. As you said the problem with Dembélé is that he has been injured a lot, his timekeeping and diet issues are common in football, it will frustrate some players like Reus or allegedly Messi but most of the time your teammates will make fun of you because you keep paying fines. It's also something that can be fixed by good leadership, injury proneness is a totally different story, some clubs like Juventus and Bayern seem to deal with it well and others don't have a great history in that department.

Also do people claim that Reus constant injuries are down to poor professionalism and poor diet because he has had a lot of muscular injuries?

 

[Sayros]

He's had severe injury problems and if the stories in the papers are true he's a disciplinary nightmare. As far as I know he had some good moments for Barca, but imho it takes some work to fit him in tactically. None of that sounds like a potential bargain or minimized risk to me, quite the opposite actually.

I don't really think he takes work to fit him in, he can play on either wings, and the options there are still minimal. He's someone who can easily break down a defense all on his own. Fitting him tactically is a situation Barcelona has to deal with, but it's the same thing with every single of their signings, even Griezmann is not fitting them tactically, because Barcelona are a disaster and have no flexibility. If anything Dembele's own style is what helped them unlock situations they couldn't break down in their traditional "Barca way", which is why he's very appreciated by a group of Barcelona fans, but the injuries are understandingly frustrating for everybody at the club.

When healthy, Dembele would be a huge plus for the club, especially against teams difficult to break down. People tend to overblow the negatives and minimize the positives or downright forget just how good Dembele is, especially in creating danger and chances for himself and others. I'd get Sancho over him just for the injuries, but as far as talent and potential is concerned, I think Dembele is second to none.

 

[do.ob]

I don't really think he takes work to fit him in, he can play on either wings, and the options there are still minimal. He's someone who can easily break down a defense all on his own. Fitting him tactically is a situation Barcelona has to deal with, but it's the same thing with every single of their signings, even Griezmann is not fitting them tactically, because Barcelona are a disaster and have no flexibility. If anything Dembele's own style is what helped them unlock situations they couldn't break down in their traditional "Barca way", which is why he's very appreciated by a group of Barcelona fans, but the injuries are understandingly frustrating for everybody at the club.

When healthy, Dembele would be a huge plus for the club, especially against teams difficult to break down. People tend to overblow the negatives and minimize the positives or downright forget just how good Dembele is, especially in creating danger and chances for himself and others. I'd get Sancho over him just for the injuries, but as far as talent and potential is concerned, I think Dembele is second to none.

If tactics were as simple as "that guy can play there and the other guy can play there" then Barca would not have so many high quality signings disappoint and he would've done well for either them or France. For starters I think Dembele is a defensive liability, others need to cover him, especially when you consider his high risk/high reward style and the latter can be a big problem by itself, when he's not the star of the team.
I guess playing AWB in a covering role doesn't seem too far fetched, but imagine Solskjaer asking Pogba and/or Bruno to not get mad when Dembele dribbles into a crowd rather than playing a safe pass to them and instead stay back and cover for him. It could work of course, but it could also be a disaster.
And reports of a shitty diet and missed training, because of late night gaming sessions, aren't a footnote. That's the kind of stuff that creates rifts in the dressing room.

 

[Sayros]

If tactics were as simple as "that guy can play there and the other guy can play there" then Barca would not have so many high quality signings disappoint and he would've done well for either them or France. For starters I think Dembele is a defensive liability, others need to cover him, especially when you consider his high risk/high reward style and the latter can be a big problem by itself, when he's not the star of the team.
I guess playing AWB in a covering role doesn't seem too far fetched, but imagine Solskjaer asking Pogba and/or Bruno to not get mad when Dembele dribbles into a crowd rather than playing a safe pass to them and instead stay back and cover for him. It could work of course, but it could also be a disaster.
And reports of a shitty diet and missed training, because of late night gaming sessions, aren't a footnote. That's the kind of stuff that creates rifts in the dressing room.

Barcelona's signing disappoints because they have rigid tactics that are catered to players they mostly don't have anymore, and they're unable to adapt to the talents they do have. United doesn't have that problem quite as much, and I'd say Dembele is a piece that would fit with the fast-paced, counter-attacking qualities of the forwards at the club. Dembele will cover his man, he's not great at it but are any talented forwards for the most part? He can do enough. He can become a defense liability when he makes poor passes from the midfield, but you can mitigate that by letting Pogba and Bruno run the show and use him as an outlet in the final third where any poor pass is manageable.

The reports on his behavior are highly exaggerated by the press IMO. Was he immature and unprofessional at times? Yes. Has he changed his ways? It seems that he was heading in the right direction, he was training, he was getting his chances, he just has bad injuries happening. The main problem is whether he will be the same player after his latest injury or not, that's the one factor that could make this entire discussion about him coming completely irrelevant if it turns out it's a career-affecting injury, which we won't know until we see him play again, but the medical staff would most likely be able to determine that.

And while he may frustrate at times, I think Pogba and Bruno would kill to have him as an outlet in the final third from the midfield. I don't think he should come in to take over anybody's job, but he'd add depth and he'd be a completely different option to unlock teams that Rashford and Greenwood may not be able to break down from the wings like he can. And if he turns out alright, he'd easily be a serious competition for Rashford, which would both improve him and give him depth to not over-exert himself and get himself injured because he's still not looking right at times and he's the kind of player that will play through pain to his detriment. It would also give depth to Martial's position because you can have Greenwood go up the middle and Rashford+Dembele on the wings.

Again, I'd rather have Sancho because it's a safer bet, but if Dortmund is asking for a king's ransom that's beyond the means to get him, then I consider a healthy Dembele is as good as it gets for second option, but it's a high-risk/high-rewards move for sure.

 

[Red Company]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

I’m totally down for this move. He can be the perfect backup/alternate for Greenwood on the RW.

We can also use this summer’s budget on other concerning areas instead of plowing it all on Sancho.

Dembele + VdB + CB and maybe Grealish if we get a good deal.

 

[2 man midfield]

Barcelona spent what, 140m on him? They’d need to reduce that by about half before we’d be in for him, surely. I can’t see that being a goer.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Barcelona spent what, 140m on him? They’d need to reduce that by about half before we’d be in for him, surely. I can’t see that being a goer.

Half? No one in their right minds would even pony up 30M for him in this market. The best offer could be to take him on loan and offer to pay his wages.

 

[Red Company]

Barcelona spent what, 140m on him? They’d need to reduce that by about half before we’d be in for him, surely. I can’t see that being a goer.

Well the first year would probably be a loan with an option to buy. As long as he avoids injuries he’ll prove his worth no doubt.

At his age he’s still a better option at 60/70m then spending €120m on Sancho next summer even.

 

[SATA]

Do Barca want rid of him? Even if they only want rid of his wages, we should get him in. How much is he on there? I would still prefer Sancho 120% though

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Would be a big downgrade from Sancho.

 

[#07]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Red00012]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

I’m totally down for this move. He can be the perfect backup/alternate for Greenwood on the RW.

We can also use this summer’s budget on other concerning areas instead of plowing it all on Sancho.

Dembele + VdB + CB and maybe Grealish if we get a good deal.

 

[roonaldo78]

Would be a big downgrade from Sancho.

Depends on if he can produce the same sort of form which persuaded Barca to sign him. It is a big question mark but I would prefer that plus spending money on a CM plus CB rather than 120 mil on Sancho.

 

[JPRouve]

Depends on if he can produce the same sort of form which persuaded Barca to sign him. It is a big question mark but I would prefer that plus spending money on a CM plus CB rather than 120 mil on Sancho.

He has had the same type of form for Barcelona, Dembélé's productivity hasn't changed. He just can't stay fit.

 

[SATA]

We are again putting out a brief that we are not going to be held ransom by Dortmund after yesterday's fiasco?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Depends on if he can produce the same sort of form which persuaded Barca to sign him. It is a big question mark but I would prefer that plus spending money on a CM plus CB rather than 120 mil on Sancho.

You think we'll get three players you want us to sign for 120 million? Don't see that happening. I'd rather one elite English talent than all these more questionable ones. More isn't always better for me

 

[Red Company]

Depends on if he can produce the same sort of form which persuaded Barca to sign him. It is a big question mark but I would prefer that plus spending money on a CM plus CB rather than 120 mil on Sancho.

When he’s fit he still plays on a high level. That’s not even the issue here. That’s why I’d openly be down to take a chance on him. He’d be a nuisance for PL defenders.

 

[Lash]

I'd happily give him a go on loan instead of Sancho this summer if all this agent and Dortmund posturing doesn't get sorted.

 

[3KDré]

He has had the same type of form for Barcelona, Dembélé's productivity hasn't changed. He just can't stay fit.

Hypothetically then, if he is injured as often it means more time for Mason. I wouldn't mind him and Mason sharing time at all.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

He has had the same type of form for Barcelona, Dembélé's productivity hasn't changed. He just can't stay fit.

Which we don't need either.

Dembele is very talented but Sancho looks to be more complete to me. Less languid, more of a team player, better passer, better end product etc Dembele has great technical qualities and could yet fulfill his immense potential but I'd pick Sancho

 

[Red Company]

Which we don't need either.

Dembele is very talented but Sancho looks to be more complete to me. Less languid, more of a team player, better passer, better end product etc Dembele has great technical qualities and could yet fulfill his immense potential but I'd pick Sancho

I’m sure most people agree with you but if we can’t get Sancho I think Dembele is the best plan B.

I also think his fitness hasn’t been handled well at Barcelona but that could change with us. Well take our time bringing him back to 100% which would also allow Greenwood’s steady progression to continue.

 

[JPRouve]

Which we don't need either.

Dembele is very talented but Sancho looks to be more complete to me. Less languid, more of a team player, better passer, better end product etc Dembele has great technical qualities and could yet fulfill his immense potential but I'd pick Sancho

I responded to a post about his productivity, I didn't suggest that we should be after him. The fact that he can't stay fit is a big isssue for me but when on the field there isn't a lot of players that produces more goals and assists than Dembélé.

 

[bond19821982]

You think we'll get three players you want us to sign for 120 million? Don't see that happening. I'd rather one elite English talent than all these more questionable ones. More isn't always better for me

You can actually. Thiago is available for 35m, VDB around same price, plenty of left backs available for 25-30m.

Defenders whoever linked are all available in the range of 30-35m (Kabak, Gabriel, kid from Monaco)

 

[Lash]

Hypothetically then, if he is injured as often it means more time for Mason. I wouldn't mind him and Mason sharing time at all.

My thoughts exactly.