Yeah, and if Military doesn't act these folks will sit idly and become farmers right ?
They'll brainwash more people and then try and take over other parts.
Pakistan
- Thread starter Edgar Allan Pillow
- Start date
They'll brainwash more people and then try and take over other parts.
These guys were operating in Afghanistan with Pakistan support. Now revolting in Pakistan as Pakistan supported USA on attack on them.
USA played with fire with Al Qaeda if you go into history but Pakistan has been doing it way more with all sorts of groups.
Anyway, not sure what looking at the past is gonna achieve now.
1) this isn't a religious based attack
2) it's no secret that terrorist attacks in Pakistan have increased significantly (read somewhere quadrupled) since the US and it's allies invaded Afghanistan destabilising the region.
I have first hand experience, i have roots in Pakistan and i remember 10-15 years ago Pakistan was a relatively safe place you could go to Lahore and Karachi and Kashmir without the fear of being bombed it all started to change post 2000, people tend to think these extremist problems have been around forever when it hasn't really, not to this level anyway.
Looking at the past is always relevant, because we need to make sure we don't repeat the same mistakes in the future. People mistakenly think stating potential factors (e.g. governmental ineptitude, myopic foreign policy) means justifying what's happening.
It's not, I have no qualms with completely eradicating the threat militants pose through an immediate robust military response (and hopefully we'll see Zarb e azb gain even more traction now) but reflecting ensures better policy/decision making in the future.
Flooding militas/tribes with weapons in proxy wars isn't a good idea. Stating that is not justifying murderers, who are psychos and deserve hell.
It's not, I have no qualms with completely eradicating the threat militants pose through an immediate robust military response (and hopefully we'll see Zarb e azb gain even more traction now) but reflecting ensures better policy/decision making in the future.
Flooding militas/tribes with weapons in proxy wars isn't a good idea. Stating that is not justifying murderers, who are psychos and deserve hell.
What is it that makes these people think that it can -- in certain circumstances -- be morally justifiable to execute children? Anyone?
It is time to end these inbred bastards. There is no hope for negotiations. The TTB have been taken to the cleaners by the Pakistan Army, and it was Imran Khan, in whose backyard this tragedy happened, who has taken a stand against attacking the TTB. He pleaded dialogue and peaceful resolution. This is plain madness.
Maybe it is time for the talking to stop. It is time for the iron fist. There is no hope for these inhuman dogs. Salvation is beyond them. They do not understand humanity anymore. They should not be treated with the privilege of being humans as such.
They were children!! 126 Children at school!! I cannot even bring myself to comprehend this madness. It's time for scorched earth tactics with these dogs. Human rights should not apply to them.
Maybe it is time for the talking to stop. It is time for the iron fist. There is no hope for these inhuman dogs. Salvation is beyond them. They do not understand humanity anymore. They should not be treated with the privilege of being humans as such.
They were children!! 126 Children at school!! I cannot even bring myself to comprehend this madness. It's time for scorched earth tactics with these dogs. Human rights should not apply to them.
I'm going to have a guess at they must be coming from an extreme position where they feel agreived enough to do something as barbaric as that. Says earlier in this thread that they did it because their families are suffering so they are exacting the same on the people who support their enemies.
It would be easy to say that you shouldn't try to think why people would do that or other savage crimes because they clearly have mental problems.
Awful news. Scumbags. Have their families actually been targeted?
1) It is attack by a religion based terrorist group. So, it will always be related either directly or indirectly.
2) Yes, as I said situation has become worse since their policy and US with its history with Osama bin laden and his group but for this particular attack it is not relevant.
Regarding the bolded bit, it is whole different situation and I am curious you mentioning it in same sentence as Lahore and Karachi as Lahore and Karachi are parts of Pakistan whereas Kashmir, that WHOLE state is part of India. Second, the situation in Kashmir is bad since long time, before 2000s and is not at all related to US/UK. It is a matter between India-Pakistan and has roots in partition. It was never calm but last time it was relatively safer for Indians, (who are from same country as that state), to travel there was in late 80s, early 90s. So I don't know how it was better for Pakistanis to travel there or how much they did on regular basis, legally.
It is whole different subject though so no point stretching and it will be digressing from this topic as it is not related. Was just curious when you mentioned Kashmir when mentioning situation in Pakistan and its cities. Pakistan should have nothing to do with Kashmir ideally except traveling there as foreign visitors. I hope they realize it soon for their own good
I think he meant POK @The Man Himself.
Situation in Indian Occupied Kashmir has actually improved in recent years because of infighting in Pakistan. Though there are seperate groups like JUD and LET etc.. being supported for Anti India activities.
But that all is seperate debate and my views on Kashmir are different to yours slightly but no point debating that here.
Situation in Indian Occupied Kashmir has actually improved in recent years because of infighting in Pakistan. Though there are seperate groups like JUD and LET etc.. being supported for Anti India activities.
But that all is seperate debate and my views on Kashmir are different to yours slightly but no point debating that here.
Holy fecking shit. Absolutely heartbreaking
Yea I know all that and Pakistan too have tried to use these terrorist groups for their agendas in past and now it is hurting them. It is not totally related to US foreign policy only was my point. Whatever it is, it is an horrible incident and it is about time there are concrete measures taken against terrorists by everyone together and without any peace bullshit.
There's not point arguing as you have come up with no logical argument why it is not relevant, so let's just leave it there.1) It is attack by a religion based terrorist group. So, it will always be related either directly or indirectly.
2) Yes, as I said situation has become worse since their policy and US with its history with Osama bin laden and his group but for this particular attack it is not relevant.
Regarding the bolded bit, it is whole different situation and I am curious you mentioning it in same sentence as Lahore and Karachi as Lahore and Karachi are parts of Pakistan whereas Kashmir, that WHOLE state is part of India. Second, the situation in Kashmir is bad since long time, before 2000s and is not at all related to US/UK. It is a matter between India-Pakistan and has roots in partition. It was never calm but last time it was relatively safer for Indians, (who are from same country as that state), to travel there was in late 80s, early 90s. So I don't know how it was better for Pakistanis to travel there or how much they did on regular basis, legally.
It is whole different subject though so no point stretching and it will be digressing from this topic as it is not related. Was just curious when you mentioned Kashmir when mentioning situation in Pakistan and its cities. Pakistan should have nothing to do with Kashmir ideally except traveling there as foreign visitors. I hope they realize it soon for their own good
Let's not go there about Kashmir too bro, especially the 'Azad' part of it.
Yea I know he meant PoK but again, there should not be any PoK
Anyway it is different topic.
I have given very valid arguments but you don't want to see it and want to blame others instead of Pakistan's own role in all this.There's not point arguing as you have come up with no logical argument why it is not relevant, so let's just leave it there.
Let's not go there about Kashmir too bro, especially the 'Azad' part of it.
Yea, you won't want to go there on Kashmir I understand. After all, it is infiltration by Pakistan into someone else's territory with help of terrorists but won't be acknowledged.
120+ kids dead
Forget the meddling of the us/UK and look at your own successive governments which have given safe havens to terrorists. This offensive against Taliban shouldn't even have been needed in the first place.
Whatever , go up and actually read my posts where i said Pakistan army is to blame too, but then again it's not one of your strong points you rather just shoot off with your own opinion.
Again like i've said to your buddy above Pakistan is hardly blameless at all. And FYI it's not my government.120+ kids dead
Forget the meddling of the us/UK and look at your own successive governments which have given safe havens to terrorists. This offensive against Taliban shouldn't even have been needed in the first place.
If you think over it rather talking random, you will understand that the action of 'Pakistan army' comes into picture later. It is about Pakistan's policy regarding Taliban which is to be blamed. Pakistan army now attacking them etc comes into picture a lot later. It is not the basic cause here.
Sad too read about this. Violence – as long as you don’t support ethnic cleansing of whole regions - will only be a short term fix and contra productive in the long run. The idea that anyone can fix this problem just with a gun is bizarre.
Without a change in politics this will come back again and again.
Folks, this tragedy is still ongoing, let's discuss the politics behind it at a later time.
Exactly... Thank you.
Interviewed a child from the school who said the Terrorists were speaking Arabic.
The causes will naturally pop up in discussion. Yes, it is better to focus on tragedy at this moment but instead of hoping and praying that there are no more innocent casualties, we can't do more about it.
That's diverting the original point i made, you have yourself acknowledged things have got a lot worse since the Afghan war and my point was this disgusting attack today is linked to it, don't see why we are discussing the origins of the Taliban. Anyway as others have pointed out this is still ongoing so i'm going to leave it there, i pray this is all over soon and more people do not get hurt.
Aamir Ali, a second-year engineering student, lost 10 of his comrades within a blink of the eye during the siege at the Army Public School.
Here are some of the devastating witness accounts to have come out of the Peshawar attack:
“I was sitting in the corridor with 10 of my classmates when we heard firing. We immediately ran towards the classroom to hide there but the militants chased us down and found us. They were dressed in shalwar kameez and the only thing they told us is: ‘read the kalma’,” said Ali, remorsefully adding that he was the only one of his 10 friends that survived the attack.
Witnesses described how gunmen went from classroom to classroom, shooting children, after a huge blast shook the Army Public School, while some described police struggling to hold back distraught parents trying to break past a cordon and get to the school when three loud explosions went off.
Ahsan Mukhtar, a second-year intermediate student, said his teacher made the entire classroom crouch and move towards the end of the classroom as the firing started. “After an hour, when the firing relatively calmed down, the army came and rescued us,” Mukhtar added.
A grandmother told The Express Tribune how she was called by the school’s principal to pick up her grandchildren when the attack happened. “The principal told us that 20 students had been injured and we should come get our children as soon as possible,” she said. “I hung up before the principal could finish talking.”
Mudassar Abbas, a physics laboratory assistant at the school, said some students were celebrating at a party when the attack began.
“I saw six or seven people walking class-to-class and opening fire on children,” he said.
A student who survived the attack said soldiers came to rescue students during a lull in the firing.
“When we were coming out of the class we saw dead bodies of our friends lying in the corridors. They were bleeding. Some were shot three times, some four times,” the student said.
“The men entered the rooms one by one and started indiscriminate firing at the staff and students.”
Distraught parents thronged the Lady Reading Hospital, weeping uncontrollably as children’s bodies arrived, their school uniforms drenched in blood.
Irshadah Bibi, 40, whose 12-year-old son was among the dead, beat her face in grief, throwing herself against an ambulance.
“O God, why did you snatch away my son? What is the sin of my child and all these children?” she wept.
At least 123 children have been killed in the attack and many more are missing. The Taliban say they sent in six gunmen wearing suicide vests.
http://tribune.com.pk/story/807619/they-asked-us-to-read-the-kalma/
Here are some of the devastating witness accounts to have come out of the Peshawar attack:
“I was sitting in the corridor with 10 of my classmates when we heard firing. We immediately ran towards the classroom to hide there but the militants chased us down and found us. They were dressed in shalwar kameez and the only thing they told us is: ‘read the kalma’,” said Ali, remorsefully adding that he was the only one of his 10 friends that survived the attack.
Witnesses described how gunmen went from classroom to classroom, shooting children, after a huge blast shook the Army Public School, while some described police struggling to hold back distraught parents trying to break past a cordon and get to the school when three loud explosions went off.
Ahsan Mukhtar, a second-year intermediate student, said his teacher made the entire classroom crouch and move towards the end of the classroom as the firing started. “After an hour, when the firing relatively calmed down, the army came and rescued us,” Mukhtar added.
A grandmother told The Express Tribune how she was called by the school’s principal to pick up her grandchildren when the attack happened. “The principal told us that 20 students had been injured and we should come get our children as soon as possible,” she said. “I hung up before the principal could finish talking.”
Mudassar Abbas, a physics laboratory assistant at the school, said some students were celebrating at a party when the attack began.
“I saw six or seven people walking class-to-class and opening fire on children,” he said.
A student who survived the attack said soldiers came to rescue students during a lull in the firing.
“When we were coming out of the class we saw dead bodies of our friends lying in the corridors. They were bleeding. Some were shot three times, some four times,” the student said.
“The men entered the rooms one by one and started indiscriminate firing at the staff and students.”
Distraught parents thronged the Lady Reading Hospital, weeping uncontrollably as children’s bodies arrived, their school uniforms drenched in blood.
Irshadah Bibi, 40, whose 12-year-old son was among the dead, beat her face in grief, throwing herself against an ambulance.
“O God, why did you snatch away my son? What is the sin of my child and all these children?” she wept.
At least 123 children have been killed in the attack and many more are missing. The Taliban say they sent in six gunmen wearing suicide vests.
http://tribune.com.pk/story/807619/they-asked-us-to-read-the-kalma/
..because Taliban militants carried out the attack.
This is nuts! Monsters.
From what I read it is the supporters of Taliban and people from NWFP who helped and fought along side Taliban, who have carried out this heinous act.
in a discussion about children dying you bring up this? have a word with yourself, disgraceful.Yea I know he meant PoK but again, there should not be any PoK
Anyway it is different topic.
Read the discussion again and the post you quoted. I mentioned it is different topic and I wanted to understand the reason for bringing it up in first place by 2mufc as situation there is different than peace within Pakistan.
Also, topic is going to divert to causes in such case, this doesn't mean those who are discussing the causes don't care about the deaths or don't feel bad about it. Carry on taking moral high ground though and thus evading the root cause.
Feckin hell. What kind of people are these guys.
edit: should be a separate thread tbh.
edit: should be a separate thread tbh.
you mean the post where he said he Vsited Lahore Karachi and Kashmir with you going on a wide tangent saying Kashmir belongs to India? yeah I read that bullshit, like I said there is a time and place for shit like that and this isn't it. I couldn't Care less if Kashmir belongs to my auntie at this point.
this is no better than polticians blaming each other in the news.
It was related because peace situation has been different in those places, so when he mentions it in same sentence, it is natural to ask how so. How situation regarding peace has been in Lahore and Karachi and how and why they changed is not exactly similar to kashmir.
Next time, you can outline what exactly everyone should say and what one should avoid when we are discussing a topic. For me the causes of the event and possible future effects of the event are as much part of discussion. There is no two way about it that how incredibly sad this attack is, but that doesn't mean we should avoid all related topics. You can see it as you want it though, I couldn't care less.
you can bring up pakistans influence in Taliban/freedom fighters, etc in Kashmir without going into the politics of it all. like Kashmir belongs to India/pak ,etc. that's what I consider bs .
and the fact that situation in azad Kashmir in the ninties for the majority part was closer to Lahore, Karachi than jammu Kashmir.
your post was the same as feckers trying to blame the regional govt instead of central and vice versa. needless politicising of an issue to score cheap points..
You know, I used to believe in that as well. Do you honestly believe that the Taliban is a big enough group of people to be considered as an "ethnic group"? They are not. They are terrorists. They do not conform to the standards of modern day society. What purpose does the killing of children serve? Go on tell me that. There really is no justification. It is pure insanity. These people do not deserve human rights because they treat their woman like concubines and children as the production line for "the cause". Utter madness. Have you forgotten what they did when they had power over a people? There is no dialogue left.
THEY ATTACKED CHILDREN IN THE CONSTITUENCY OF THE MAN WHO WAS TRYING TO NEGOTIATE PEACE AND STOP THE GOVT'S ASSAULT ON THE TALIBAN.
Can't be any clearer than that. It's all good to say what you want from the comfort of your living room. I have experience terrorism before, when I was holidaying in Mumbai. I came back here a changed man. I wanted to give Imran Khan a chance bcause he talked a good game and I believed in his ideal. But that's where the buck stops as evidenced by this attack. Idealism. It is either die not stopping them, stop them from doing that.
agree 100% with this, torture the cnuts before killing them as well and throw whoever the feck who sympathises with them out if the country.
This is heartbreaking. Sickening.
It is not politicizing of issue. If you follow whole discussion, you will see that it started with the possible root cause for the attack or that I assume 2mufc meant when he brought US foreign policy into it. To me, this attack is lesser because of US policy and more because of Pakistan's policy regarding Taliban.
As you mentioned in first point, we can discuss Pakistan's influence in Taliban etc. Let's call all that their overall policy regarding Taliban. Don't you see that kashmir is involved in it? You can see it as 'cheap points', I don't see it that way. My repeating Kashmir belongs to India is not going to make everything change there. What it is though, is a point when we delve more into how exactly Pakistan got involved with Taliban and what was the motive. Have there relations been only related as by-product of US relations? Clearly not. Then what else? At that stage Kashmir came into question. Probably my wink smiley made you think I am not serious about deaths, which if it is, I am sorry to hurt feelings. It was actually intended to stop topic there because it was always going to go this way. To me though, evading it totally doesn't make sense if we are to discuss the topic. It is not a tragedy out of natural cause where we can only hope and pray. Here also, we will hope and pray but discussing the causes will be there as one feels how it could have been easily avoided in a rational world.