Although there was no way to be sure, a lot of us suspected it impacted him just like he described it. The fact that he could finish the game like he did yesterday may be a good indication of him feeling better now.
6
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 42
- Goals
- 6
- Assists
- 6
- Yellow cards
- 9
- Status
Never seen anyone clear the ball in their penalty area by doing a overhead kick 
Yeah, his languid style means it can be hard to tell when he is and isn’t putting a shift in. So I can understand why his poor performances early in the season were perceived as no different to poor performances from previous seasons. But hearing him say his stamina was so badly affected is actually quite encouraging.
Evra did it all the timeNever seen anyone clear the ball in their penalty area by doing a overhead kick
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All the time......
Can't believe how many people thought Pogba was bad in the first half. The whole team performance was poor but he was the only one trying to make things happen. Movement ahead of him was poor / West Ham were very well organised. Forward players constantly gave the ball away which also contributed to a poor performance. People making comments like he was dwelling on the ball too much, ponderous etc etc. which if he was at all guilty of this, then it was because of the lack of options. He was trying to do the right things and he needed better from those around/ahead of him. When we brought on Rashford and Bruno, that's when we started to stretch them more and of course, all of a sudden, everything Pogba was trying to do or wanted to do in the first half was possible and he started dictating play.
All of the stats show that he had a good game yesterday and the number of touches he had, passes, recoveries all point to that and that he didn't just start playing in the second half.
All of the stats show that he had a good game yesterday and the number of touches he had, passes, recoveries all point to that and that he didn't just start playing in the second half.
I was critical of him in the first half against West Ham, but looking back on the game now without the heat of watching the game, he was the only player consistently showing for the ball, and having a willingness to go forward.
He was so much better in the second half when we had players making runs, and Bruno showing for the ball. He makes you want to pull your hair out, because his performance in the second half shows you what you'd be missing without him.
A Paul Pogba at his best transforms this team from good to title challengers. He needs to do it on a consistent basis now. Ole has such belief in him because he knows the talent, much like he believed in Rashford. It's now time for Pogba to start repaying that belief back.
It's worth mentioning for all the stick we give Pogba, if Mourinho was still here we'd likely be watching Hojbjerg instead. Let's hope this kickstarts his season.
He was so much better in the second half when we had players making runs, and Bruno showing for the ball. He makes you want to pull your hair out, because his performance in the second half shows you what you'd be missing without him.
A Paul Pogba at his best transforms this team from good to title challengers. He needs to do it on a consistent basis now. Ole has such belief in him because he knows the talent, much like he believed in Rashford. It's now time for Pogba to start repaying that belief back.
It's worth mentioning for all the stick we give Pogba, if Mourinho was still here we'd likely be watching Hojbjerg instead. Let's hope this kickstarts his season.
I mean he did it a lot. I vividly remember thinking he managed to do overhead in the box a crazy amount of times
I think the encouraging thing about his performance yesterday was the defensive side because that's where the doubts so often come from. I think you're right that he is the one who could transform our performances to a title challenge - I would love for him to start answering his critics and do it week in, week out, that's what we need from him now. Feels like a big if given how it tends to go with him but I live in hope.
Covid impacting his fitness and performances is noteworthy and it now looks like that may be behind him.
The challenge for him now is to reproduce that second half as his benchmark performance week in, week out. I'm not even talking about his goal, but his weight of pass, vision, movement and power in the middle was excellent.
If he can add in a goal and an assist here and there, then all the better. It's the age old argument though with Paul, can he do it consistently? We've seen this performance many times before, followed by some stinkers.
Don't see him ever making it here, not sure he really wants to either. Probably the most overrated player of his generation. This moronic notion that he's awesome for France is utter nonsense, he gets protected not supported and they can afford to carry him. He was forced out wide by a 36 year old Pirlo at Juve not that most wouldn't have been. At some point even his most ardent fans have to accept that he just hasn't done it. I genuinely think there is a world class talent in there somewhere, continously saying he doesn't have the players around is just embarrassing, he doesn't look great compared to even our weaker midfielders. This season in fairness bad start for him with Covid tbf. Fundamentally the best players all have one thing in common and that is they all work harder that their team mates and live and die for the club. He looks like a lad who thinks that talent alone is enough, won a world Cup, ill always have that so why push myself.
Really wish it wasn't that bad but as a Pogba fan myself, sometimes you have to say, maybe he really isn't that food after all.
Really wish it wasn't that bad but as a Pogba fan myself, sometimes you have to say, maybe he really isn't that food after all.
This post is incredibly confusing and seems to contradict itself multiple times
The second half against West Ham did Pogba a lot of good, not just to play 90 minutes but to play himself into the game and improve as it went on. I think Leipzig comes too early for him though.
What alerted me was how rarely he was playing 90min, even for France
Don't agree at all.
He wasn't poor by all means, he just wasn't good enough, again.
He was dwelling on the ball constantly, and not exclusively because there weren't any options. They were options, he's just too slow to see them and react.
Watch the first half again. There isn't a single moment in which he didn't touch the ball at least three times. Talk about slowing the tempo down...
Forward players did lose the ball constantly, i agree, especially Martial, but half of that is also on Pogba himself. He releases the ball way too late, getting the forwards in a pickle.
Zero one twos. He doesnt even try them.
Did you see what Bruno and Greenwood did in the second half, quick one two executed with perfection.
He in no way affected the tempo or dictation of play in the second half. Yes, he scored a screamer - the only thing worth mentioning.
And yes, the third goal was finally a first touch pass to Bruno, a one touch pass he never made in the first.
If he can replicate a goal per match, by all means, play him constantly!
I just highly doubt that.
He needs to do much more, and more consistently to even consider taking him seriously again.
But, that's just me.
I would agree with that. We have been so disappointed by him that the bar has been set low. His first half was average in reality but good considering how bad the team was in general.
The goal boosted his confidence and we saw try things we know he can do (break the lines with the ball at his feet even if it wasn't successful for instance).
Hopefully this is the start of better performances, I don't expect goals and assists from him, anything like that is a bonus. I want consistent good midfield performances as it would help the team in general.
Even if we end up selling him in a few months, I still would want him to perform as well he can (for the team's benefit and for increasing his fee in case of departure)
Well, that's all fine, but if we don't expect goals or assists from him, what else is there for him to play?
Defensively? Not even close. Can't tackle if his life depends on it, constantly makes stupid fouls (to be fair, not yesterday) in dangerous areas....so as a DM, no thanks.
As a center midfielder, he needs to speed up his game.
He can slow the game down, so that's fine if we are two goals up, but not when we're trailing behind.
And we should definetly expect goals from him. You said it correctly - the bar is set so low that we're drooling over a half limp performance.
Consistent isn't a word used to describe Paul Pogba.
I do however hope to bit my tongue.
I've been hoping that for four years, so you'll excuse me if i don't get my hopes up.
The reason why COVID's so big for Pogba in particular is because he's playing as both a creative and defensive player.
As a creative player he tries to break the lines with his passing but if it doesn't come off, he needs to be one of the 2 defensive players that wins the ball back, even tracking the ball all the way into his own box if need be. Essentially two roles in one.
I suspect that's why he seemed so bad at the start of the season. He tried to be the creative player, but he didn't have the stamina to get the ball back when his passes didn't come off, and the natural conclusion from fans was "lazy", "prima donna", "doesn't want to be here". I'll admit that I myself came to that conclusion as well despite suspecting that COVID may have done something.
I still think including him at the start of the season as a mistake from the manager who should have seen that his fitness was obviously subpar, but that's past now. Hopefully with his stamina recovering he can start to play that role again and elevate our midfield to another level. Fred, Pogba and Bruno to me is still the best midfield we can put out, so hopefully we can see that soon.
As a creative player he tries to break the lines with his passing but if it doesn't come off, he needs to be one of the 2 defensive players that wins the ball back, even tracking the ball all the way into his own box if need be. Essentially two roles in one.
I suspect that's why he seemed so bad at the start of the season. He tried to be the creative player, but he didn't have the stamina to get the ball back when his passes didn't come off, and the natural conclusion from fans was "lazy", "prima donna", "doesn't want to be here". I'll admit that I myself came to that conclusion as well despite suspecting that COVID may have done something.
I still think including him at the start of the season as a mistake from the manager who should have seen that his fitness was obviously subpar, but that's past now. Hopefully with his stamina recovering he can start to play that role again and elevate our midfield to another level. Fred, Pogba and Bruno to me is still the best midfield we can put out, so hopefully we can see that soon.
Because we had no Bruno or Rashford. We had no runners in behind. Van Der Beek was anonymous, Martial and Cavani were wasteful in possession and Green wood was dropping deep to try and get involved.
That doesn't mean that Pogba was too blame though does it? As soon as DVB went off and Bruno/Rashford came in we looked better, commom demoninator was DVB.
Pogba played well, played the position he was asked to play effictively. If you can't see that from watching the game and then seeing the stats to actually back it up then there is an underlying dislike that you try to get everyone else to subscribe to, in other words an agenda. Even the pundits on MOTD and sky sports bigged his performance up but no, this random guy on redcafe must know better.
You said it yourself, "as a central midfielder".
Expecting goals and assists from him is unrealistic if he plays there. However he can influence our game much more positively from there, the room for improvement is huge and I include the defensive side to it of course. He can make us tick better, get the ball forward much quicker than of our other CMs can.
He can switch play like no other in the team.
He wasn't that bad defensively during the restart, Covid has done him badly and it's killed his stamina levels thus making him do all kinda stupid fouls in dangerous areas.
I'd let all the goalscoring to Bruno/Rashford/Greenwood/Cavani
I want him to get back to contributing week in week out as a regular in our team...but not with a view to extend his contract on better wages, but to sell him for someone else.
You make points that can be firmly pointed at McAverage & Fred who are generally lauded on here for running around/harrying the opposition.
Pogba needs to consistently produce more/better but if Southampton last week, PSG & yesterday showed anything - bar Bruno we lack midfield quality all over.
Pogba won the UEL PoTS when we won it so to claim you’ve waited four years is ridiculous; he has underwhelmed in the majority but his highs are topped only by Bruno in the last 4 years in midfield.
He plays in a deep lying playmaker role, I'm not expecting him to score goals and certainly not a goal a game - of course, we'd all like him to add more goals but it's not his primary job.
He does need to produce more consistently, that I do agree with and for what it is worth, I had lost faith in Pogba after the start to this season but I will credit a good performance when it's due; for the rest, I guess we'll agree to disagree.
The black and white kit bringing the Juve Pogba vibes!
All those passes that MOTD showed in first half, all of them except the pass to Greenwood, he took meaningless touches. The pass to Cavani & Martial ended up as West Ham won the ball back because it was so easy to read. Martial & Cavani should be doing better and it was poor hold up play from them but Pogba taking too long to release the ball isn't helping them to receive the ball which my point was Pogba also has to take the share of the blame.
Him taking meaningless touches before releasing the ball actually gives a chance for opposition players to read where the pass were going. Am I wrong with this statement? Explain to me why I am wrong for this.
Just because I spotted the flaw but MOTD & Sky Sports didn't doesn't mean I was wrong about Pogba. You can't just tell me he was good based on the bigged up from MOTD & Sky Sport. I want you to make counter argument why is it okay for Pogba to take meaningless touches which allow opposition players to read the pass and press the receivers of the pass.
When he isn’t the focal of the team, people love him. See France, Juventus and some of his performances for united with Zlatan or Bruno. It’s simple, he likes to feck around. fecking around + responsibility does not work - it frustrates the viewers. But when you take responsibility away - ie bring Bruno on - all eyes shift to Bruno and you’re left just enjoying Pogbas random moments brilliance - ie his goal.
We buy a fast, quality DM. A fast centreback would also help.
Was pogba an issue with Hererra sweeping up behind him? I dont remember it being much of a problem, not sure if thats because i was more forgiving at the time though.
I didn't get a chance to watch this game "live" so I've just seen replay, focusing especially on Pogba as I've seen many people prasing him, not only on here but also on MOTD for example.
Now he is a player who walks around A LOT. He's only really good with the ball at his feet. Doesn't move enough to help to "circulate" the ball faster, takes one-two seconds to look around which is OK if he executes a long pass behind the defense, but if he doesn't, opposition has enough time to cover everybody. The game is too slow with him in midfield for my liking. I prefer midfield that is able to move the ball faster. His problem is also that he only looks up when he has the ball, his overall awareness is rather weak. Also, an accurate pass which is badly weighted (too strong and dificult to control) is NOT a good pass. We've lost the ball that way a couple of times in the first half.
Anyway, I think he was decent, same problems as always with Pogba IMO. I've been one of his biggest critics because I don't see a midfielder in him (as explained in the paragraph above), but he was OK. Still think him and van de Beek should just swap positions. Donny is no goal threat (opposed to Pogba) and understands the midfielder role better than Paul. He's also less likely to execute bicycle kick in his own box (what the hell was that?!).
In terms of stats, he was only impressive in aerial duels won (5/6), other than that he was no better than McTominay (less tackles, interceptions, and passing accuracy). In my opinion midfielder should not be judged by number of goals scored, unless you believe he will be doing that week in week out.
However, for people who whink he should be starting next game: this is probably the worst we've played in many many games (first half especially), and he was "as bad/good as the entire team". So I'm not sure if that's an argument for Pogba starting in midfield.
Now he is a player who walks around A LOT. He's only really good with the ball at his feet. Doesn't move enough to help to "circulate" the ball faster, takes one-two seconds to look around which is OK if he executes a long pass behind the defense, but if he doesn't, opposition has enough time to cover everybody. The game is too slow with him in midfield for my liking. I prefer midfield that is able to move the ball faster. His problem is also that he only looks up when he has the ball, his overall awareness is rather weak. Also, an accurate pass which is badly weighted (too strong and dificult to control) is NOT a good pass. We've lost the ball that way a couple of times in the first half.
Anyway, I think he was decent, same problems as always with Pogba IMO. I've been one of his biggest critics because I don't see a midfielder in him (as explained in the paragraph above), but he was OK. Still think him and van de Beek should just swap positions. Donny is no goal threat (opposed to Pogba) and understands the midfielder role better than Paul. He's also less likely to execute bicycle kick in his own box (what the hell was that?!).
In terms of stats, he was only impressive in aerial duels won (5/6), other than that he was no better than McTominay (less tackles, interceptions, and passing accuracy). In my opinion midfielder should not be judged by number of goals scored, unless you believe he will be doing that week in week out.
However, for people who whink he should be starting next game: this is probably the worst we've played in many many games (first half especially), and he was "as bad/good as the entire team". So I'm not sure if that's an argument for Pogba starting in midfield.
What does it mean he had 10 recoveries? I can't find those stats anywhere, source anyone?
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Just had to rewatch after @UNITED ACADEMY said every pass bar one in the first half that they showed on MOTD showed unnecessary touches.
And well, it’s quite frankly bollocks isn’t it?
The Cavani run didn’t even fecking come until a split second before Pogba struck the ball.
Does United Academy want Pogba just to hopefully twat balls behind the back four before anyone has even made a run?
The Martial pass he had a touch to control with his back to fecking goal and in that touch he also turns his man, then he needs a second touch to set up the ping, and then the fecking pass. 3 touches including the pass to beat a man, turn 180 degrees and pass a crossfield ball is now “too many”, my fecking God some people.
Utter utter dross posting by someone who has clearly never played at any decent level, if ever.
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Big pogba critic here. Only fair to comment on a very good performance, though he rarely follows it up. I can't quite remember a player so inconsistent and with such a difference between his best and worst.
Yeah just watched it myself....bizarre critique almost agenda driven
I swear the agenda is often, “I’m smart and I know something the pundit doesn’t, and I like players who play 1-2 touch.”
Same happens with Maguire.
What they don’t realise is that 1-2 touches aint always on, and the Cavani one yesterday is almost hilarious, I just played it frame by frame and you know how many touches Pogba takes after Cavani makes his run? Yup you guessed it, one, the fecking pass.
Same with the 3rd goal, Fernandes held a good position in front of him and he didn't hesitate to give him the ball.
He tried that with other players in the 1st half but they kept losing the ball.
I'm curious why Pogba was played in the double pivot when DVB was up front in the no. 10 position and Bruno was on the bench. My impression of Pogba was that he'd surely be allowed a more free, attacking role at no. 10 where he can muscle and glide past defenders to make things happen, except that Bruno is just that good and crucial to Manchester United. DVB is nowhere near as creative as Pogba and Fernandes - his game relies on a great first touch, crisp short passing, great off the ball movement and an eye for goal. I remain convinced that Pogba can play a deeplying playmaker role very well when he's on it, he has the right passing and ball carrying tools as well as vision. But DVB would have made more sense to me in the pivot role where he could consistently make himself a passing option out of the defense and move it on to Pogba or one of the forwards, allowing Pogba to be serviced further upfield and play to his strengths. DVB is also fit and mobile enough to run into the box late to present a goalscoring threat and then track back to his position if there is a turnover in possession.
Trying to give Bruno a rest was a very understandable move for me. But I was puzzled why Ole didn't reverse Pogba's and DVB's positions.
Trying to give Bruno a rest was a very understandable move for me. But I was puzzled why Ole didn't reverse Pogba's and DVB's positions.
Has anyone discussed this?
Asked how Covid-19 had affected him, Pogba told MUTV: 'It's strange, it's hard to explain because you wouldn't understand.
'Even in training, I would say to the fitness coach that I feel strange. It's not me. I get tired very fast and I'm out of breath really fast.
'The first game of the season, I couldn't run. I was trying. I spoke with the manager, "I will start the game and let's see", but I was very out of breath and it took me a long time to get back to my fitness and to get back physically good.
Asked how Covid-19 had affected him, Pogba told MUTV: 'It's strange, it's hard to explain because you wouldn't understand.
'Even in training, I would say to the fitness coach that I feel strange. It's not me. I get tired very fast and I'm out of breath really fast.
'The first game of the season, I couldn't run. I was trying. I spoke with the manager, "I will start the game and let's see", but I was very out of breath and it took me a long time to get back to my fitness and to get back physically good.
Reading this, it feels like Ole threw Pogs under the bus a bit at the start of the season.
No preseason, fresh from COVID, and he's straight into the starting lineup. And when he played badly, Ole didn't really come out to defend him (to my knowledge). Now it seems like the fanbase has given up on him, when the situation could have been easily explained.
Having watched the first half again, he certainly was one of our better players, who was getting on the ball and trying to create.
As I said in the matchday thread, midfielders like runners, and as soon as Bruno and especially Rashford came on, Pogba had that ahead of him. Before that, the movement ahead of our midfielders was stagnant.
As I said in the matchday thread, midfielders like runners, and as soon as Bruno and especially Rashford came on, Pogba had that ahead of him. Before that, the movement ahead of our midfielders was stagnant.
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