Pep - Doping (?) | Are PEDs being used by footballers

[manc exile]

All i'm trying to say with my last point is that, for me, there's something romantic about big teams winning big trophies.

Liverpool winning the CL, United winning the CL, Barcelona.. It's a big deal. Huge clubs steeped with histories of some of the best players the world has seen. It's movie worthy.

City or Chelsea winning it is not. People will look and say "wow brilliant bunch" but it's not romantic, it doesn't do football any good. Ask people around the World about the most memorable CL campaign and very few will say Chelsea winning it. It's forgettable, a skip year. Like city winning it would be after all was set and done.

whereas I think the exact opposite. If its not united winning, then the best and most memorable CL years are when an underdog wins or reaches the final.
For example Forests two wins (yes I am that old), Villa winning, Belgardes win in the early 90's (even with their negative football), Leverkusen reaching the final, Porto winning and to a lesser extent chelsea (lesser only cause I really hate chelsea).

The big teams winning are just meh to me except when its some milestone like Reals Decima etc.

 

[Karel Podolsky]

whereas I think the exact opposite. If its not united winning, then the best and most memorable CL years are when an underdog wins or reaches the final.
For example Forests two wins (yes I am that old), Villa winning, Belgardes win in the early 90's (even with their negative football), Leverkusen reaching the final, Porto winning and to a lesser extent chelsea (lesser only cause I really hate chelsea).

The big teams winning are just meh to me except when its some milestone like Reals Decima etc.

La Decima also meh. United '99 and Liverpool 05 were memorable because of circumstances, other than that, I was very happy when Dortmund, Inter Milan, to some extent Porto and Chelsea won it.

 

[Shaw_Guy]

When i was young i played against the young Spanish Handball team. This was in the early 2000´s. I´m a big guy but the kids were bullying me. They were explosive, strong, fast and big. I was very surprised and try to get some information with them. Didn´t get anything but i stay curious. At that time i tried to speak with a lot of people about that and i got the feedback that they were working a lot with supplements, specially creatine (good for power and explosion, but not for endurance). The kids weren´t doing heavy stuff, but they were already, doing supplements in a Sport that desn´t really have a lot of money and besides big leagues, players don´t get a lot of money. They were already ahead.
At some point there was a lot of talks about Blood Doping. Transfusions. EPO, factors that stimulate EPO and all of that stuff.
A lot of people possibly did that, but with the increasing work of doping agencies, people start to get caught.
So to question was simple: What to do?
How can you "work your blood" legally?
How can we simulate Hypoxic conditions?
What´s the variables? Temperature, Pressure,Intensity?
Everybody start to go into the variable "pressure". Altitude training, oxigen masks, hyperbaric oxigen chambers,etc.
So, Spanish Sport Scientists and people that work in these subjects were always ahead of time in Europe, for some years ( including doping!)
So the question now is:
Is Man City ahead of technology in these subjects? Could it be that they are?
Does Man Utd have a cryotherapy chamber? Or they just do old school "ice baths"?
Do they have hyperbaric chambers?
Does Man Utd players have recovery tents at home to improve recovery?

There´s a history of suplements and doping in Spain for years.
Could it be that they maintain that direction, thinking it´s a decisive hedge in performance?
Could it be they are just doing stuff that are legal?

Could Mourinho integrate all the new knowledge about sport science in his methodology?He isn´t integrating everything that is new in tactics for example, rather maintaining is old school style of doing things.
Liverpool players for example run more than Man Utd players. They put more miles per game.
Are they doing PEDs too?

 

[SCP]

On a very serious note, why don't start a new thread over Burnley too, there is something strange with them too

 

[edgar allan]

On a very serious note, why don't start a new thread over Burnley too, there is something strange with them too

Send the dopers van down to Bristol also.

 

[SCP]

Send the dopers van down to Bristol also.

And Leicester...

 

[ParkLife]

Leverkusen reaching the final

You must have fonder memories of that than I do.

 

[el diablorojo]

Without introducing blood passports in football we will continue to see these amazingly fit players while he is still there.

Hopefully football will have its Lance Armstrong moment sooner rather than later. Just a shame that Spanish court had all those 3000 tests destroyed that contained many footballers apparently...

 

[André Dominguez]

There we go.

That's all it is. Legalized cheating.

Sorry about late reply, Christmas and all. It's sad, but true. Unless UEFA + FIFA decide that they will apply ruthless measures to control perfomance enhacing drugs, things will not improve.
Local authorities don't really care that much since most of those drugs can be legally purchased.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

On a very serious note, why don't start a new thread over Burnley too, there is something strange with them too

Send the dopers van down to Bristol also.

And Leicester...

You guys are right, the foul stench of doping has follow Dyche, Johnson and Puel round their whole careers.

 

[SCP]

You guys are right, the foul stench of doping has follow Dyche, Johnson and Puel round their whole careers.

I see what you mean

 

[Kentonio]

Without introducing blood passports in football we will continue to see these amazingly fit players while he is still there.

Hopefully football will have its Lance Armstrong moment sooner rather than later. Just a shame that Spanish court had all those 3000 tests destroyed that contained many footballers apparently...

They were never destroyed. They're supposed to be tested again currently last thing I heard. I don't know if we'll ever hear names though, as presumably they'd have to prove the names on the bags were accurate, and it's gone the statute of limitations on the doping offenses anyway.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jul/06/wada-blood-bags-operation-puerto-

The bags are in WADAs hands but it looks like the names can't be revealed.

 

[Kentonio]

Still infuriates me how the Spanish courts interfered at every possible turn.

 

[jojojo]

Still infuriates me how the Spanish courts interfered at every possible turn.

You've got to remember that the only criminal charges available under Spanish law were charges related to Fuentes violating things like laws on safe storage of medical supplies. The drugs weren't illegal, and he was legally entitled to prescribe them.

Rules about testing for PEDs etc are the responsibility of the sporting organisations. So groups like UEFA/FIFA/LFP (as WADA accredited agencies) were entitled to run tests by collecting/testing their own samples, but these materials weren't obtained that way. They were obtained in the course of a criminal investigation and the patients were effectively the "victims" in the story. I'm not sure how different it would have been in other countries.

Spain now has a catch-all that uses a kind of generic "sporting fraud" law that would allow criminal investigations and prosecutions in similar circumstances.

 

[Kentonio]

@jojojo Fair points, but I don't think it's coincidental that not only did the courts order evidence destroyed that could have badly damaged their countries reputation, but then after reversing that order under heavy pressure they waited until a week after the 10 year limit for charges before releasing the evidence to WADA.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

The athletes in question were cheating, how does their crimes being revealed in a separate criminal investigation qualify them as victims requiring protection from the courts?

 

[Prometheus]

The athletes in question were cheating, how does their crimes being revealed in a separate criminal investigation qualify them as victims requiring protection from the courts?

They were not crimes, though? I thinks that's the point being made.

 

[Pexbo]

You've got to remember that the only criminal charges available under Spanish law were charges related to Fuentes violating things like laws on safe storage of medical supplies. The drugs weren't illegal, and he was legally entitled to prescribe them.

Rules about testing for PEDs etc are the responsibility of the sporting organisations. So groups like UEFA/FIFA/LFP (as WADA accredited agencies) were entitled to run tests by collecting/testing their own samples, but these materials weren't obtained that way. They were obtained in the course of a criminal investigation and the patients were effectively the "victims" in the story. I'm not sure how different it would have been in other countries.

Spain now has a catch-all that uses a kind of generic "sporting fraud" law that would allow criminal investigations and prosecutions in similar circumstances.

Did the inception of this law coincide with Pep's decision to leave Barcelona by any chance?

 

[Member 5225]

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[SteveJ]

That's enough evidence for me - lock him up, and give us the trophy.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

That's enough evidence for me - lock him up, and give us the trophy.

Right now the trophy would go to Chelsea.

 

[SteveJ]

Well hopefully they're on drugs too.

 

[duffer]

Well hopefully they're on drugs too.

Talking about players taking drugs, watching Mkhitaryan yesterday, I'm convinced he took a shit load of acid just before kick off and those crosses and passes were actually pin point accurate to the 12 foot winged unicorn he could see. There's really no other reasonable explanation for his performace.

 

[adexkola]

Talking about players taking drugs, watching Mkhitaryan yesterday, I'm convinced he took a shit load of acid just before kick off and those crosses and passes were actually pin point accurate to the 12 foot winged unicorn he could see. There's really no other reasonable explanation for his performace.

 

[VancouverUtdFan]

PED Pep

 

[SteveJ]

Talking about players taking drugs, watching Mkhitaryan yesterday, I'm convinced he took a shit load of acid just before kick off and those crosses and passes were actually pin point accurate to the 12 foot winged unicorn he could see. There's really no other reasonable explanation for his performace.

 

[TheRedScot]

Talking about players taking drugs, watching Mkhitaryan yesterday, I'm convinced he took a shit load of acid just before kick off and those crosses and passes were actually pin point accurate to the 12 foot winged unicorn he could see. There's really no other reasonable explanation for his performace.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

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Dodgy, or not?

 

[Rhyme Animal]

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Dodgy, or not?

Everything about guardiola's history in this subject is dodgy.

citeh's energy levels compared to previous seasons is eyebrow raising given guardiola's previous and his insistence on certain doctors (who in some cases also have previous).

 

[Fridge chutney]

Talking about players taking drugs, watching Mkhitaryan yesterday, I'm convinced he took a shit load of acid just before kick off and those crosses and passes were actually pin point accurate to the 12 foot winged unicorn he could see. There's really no other reasonable explanation for his performace.

 

[Stacks]

In the UK we are concerned with banning for recreational drug use

 

[AshRK]

Talking about players taking drugs, watching Mkhitaryan yesterday, I'm convinced he took a shit load of acid just before kick off and those crosses and passes were actually pin point accurate to the 12 foot winged unicorn he could see. There's really no other reasonable explanation for his performace.

Even Jose looked shocked by his crossing. Rui Faria must be like who is he crossing to.

 

[strongwalker]

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So, Do you guys think there is any link to Pep doping?

This is funny, because Bayern haters keep telling me about the shady dealings of Dr. Müller-Wohlfarth, who was the doc running out of Pep. Two doping friends surely would get along fine with each other.

 

[robinamicrowave]

This thread is fantastic.

As I said a few pages ago, it's pretty hilarious that when we were vying for 3rd/4th last season, this subject was never brought up. Our underachievement was all down to Pep struggling with the intensity of the Premier League because he couldn't adjust.

Now we're the best team in the country it's apparently got nothing to do with Pep learning about the English game and adapting his style to not only suit it but rule it, and instead it's all to do with drugs.

People on Bluemoon said the same about Leicester when they won the title, that it couldn't possibly be tactics and strict adherence to a disciplined system. It was tinfoil talk then and it's tinfoil talk now.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Two doping friends surely would get along fine with each other.

Why?

 

[strongwalker]

Why?

Conspiracy theory for dummies:

Conspirational Theorist: There were no doping allegations against Pep while he was in Munich, in fact he fell out with the team doctors. That is proof he is involved in doping because germans don't do it
i: But there *are* doping allegations against that very doctor he fell out with
CT: See? that exactly prooves my point!

in the undying words of Mr. Sean Spicer: you can't make this shit up


Disclaimer Q&A.
Q: do i believe Pep is as clean as a whistle?
A: nope. I believe he's as clean or dirty as any top coach involved in a major sport. I don't think he is cleaner or dirtier as Jose, Jupp, Carlo, Jürgen, Jogi or any other of these fellas.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Conspiracy theory for dummies:

Conspirational Theorist: There were no doping allegations against Pep while he was in Munich, in fact he fell out with the team doctors. That is proof he is involved in doping because germans don't do it
i: But there *are* doping allegations against that very doctor he fell out with
CT: See? that exactly prooves my point!

in the undying words of Mr. Sean Spicer: you can't make this shit up

There was a doping violation when he was at Bayern. Alcantara missed a drugs test whilst recovering from injury. Something Rio Ferdinand got banned for 9 months for in England. Alcantara agent is Pep’s brother etc.

 

[Theafonis]

Well hopefully they're on drugs too.

 

[Theafonis]

Maybe everyone but United is doping