Pep on MNF special

[matherto]

I can't envision a reality where United are winning 5-0 on the regular and it becomes boring. Can't fathom that.

There again, i can't envision a future where man utd win by 5-0. But that's another issue....

That is of course the issue.

I just think of all the games where we easily won by a few goals under SAF and all we did was complain about sleepwalking through games. We took them for granted but part of it was because we were craving a last minute Fergie time winner and comeback instead.

It's just a routine and routines get boring after a while. Winning 5-0 with minimum fuss would be amazing for the first season or so and winning in the style that Pep does whereby the other team are literally just obstacle courses and it's not a football match would also be impossibly impressive but after a while you'd just be expecting it and not be surprised or enthralled by it I think.

Maybe I'm a pessimist but I easily get bored when seeing the same thing over and over. Excellence and perfection is boring to me after the first few times. We're imperfect creatures and we get more joy out of seeing those imperfect teams win against a robotic metronomic force.

 

[nikineil]

I thought it goes hand in hand. Worshiping St Pep and bashing evil Jose.

This is the new Messi vs Ronaldo now?

 

[RedDevil@84]

like their owners?

sadly thats just wishful thinking.
Peps likely to be a city a couple more seasons.

Its not like I am scared of him being there. Let him be there as long as he wants. but he himself said it is not possible to motivate a team beyond a few seasons

 

[ThierryHenry14]

just ask yourself if you want Pep as manager, my answer is yes.

 

[BusbyMalone]

That is of course the issue.

I just think of all the games where we easily won by a few goals under SAF and all we did was complain about sleepwalking through games. We took them for granted but part of it was because we were craving a last minute Fergie time winner and comeback instead.

It's just a routine and routines get boring after a while. Winning 5-0 with minimum fuss would be amazing for the first season or so and winning in the style that Pep does whereby the other team are literally just obstacle courses and it's not a football match would also be impossibly impressive but after a while you'd just be expecting it and not be surprised or enthralled by it I think.

Maybe I'm a pessimist but I easily get bored when seeing the same thing over and over. Excellence and perfection is boring to me after the first few times. We're imperfect creatures and we get more joy out of seeing those imperfect teams win against a robotic metronomic force.

Nah

Sorry mate, not having it personally

I was never bored when we were steamrolling the league in the Fergie days - loving it!
And i'm sure City fans are now. Perhaps you may feel that, but I'm pretty damn sure most fans would happily embrace it

 

[Gentleman Jim]

Its not like I am scared of him being there. Let him be there as long as he wants. but he himself said it is not possible to motivate a team beyond a few seasons

He's got the dilemma of deciding when the best time to go is.
He's got his family to consider. When to take the kids out of the schools that they're settled in.
There's the fact that his pals are in the top jobs at City and his next club is unlikely to give him the same lack of pressure from on high.
He also would like to guide the the young team he's modelling into being a side that comes close to satisfying the demands he makes of them and hisself.
On the other hand he is concerned about working himself to a standstill and paying a heavy price later in life if he becomes totally stressed out.
So in summary I reckon that he has about 23 years left in the job but you can be sure that he will give City an indication of this so that a plan can be put in place for as near to a seamless transition as possible.

 

[haram]

Where can I watch this in full?

 

[robinamicrowave]

Yes but you did have KdB, Silva and Aguero when he arrived. We had no one in the squad near them. Clear that Pep is the better manager but I'm sorry but if you're judging squads by points earned then you're doing it wrong.

Have a look at the predictions in this thread and tell me that this was something United fans genuinely believed before a ball was kicked this season. Back in the summer City and United were considered to be on even footing. We run away with the league and suddenly you never stood a chance anyway, suddenly we're a team who were much better prepared all along.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/predict-the-season-2017-18-premier-league-edition.431189/

 

[haram]

Have a look at the predictions in this thread and tell me that this was something United fans genuinely believed before a ball was kicked this season. Back in the summer City and United were considered to be on even footing. We run away with the league and suddenly you never stood a chance anyway, suddenly we're a team who were much better prepared all along.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/predict-the-season-2017-18-premier-league-edition.431189/

You dodged this? A number of people had City above us in the thread anyway.

Yeah lets just remove the context of the years before that season and the fact that you guys stopped playing at the end of Pellegrini’s last season anyway. The two squads are not just defined by the year prior to Jose and Pep arriving.

The same way Chelsea’s squad was not defined by Jose’s last season there. Maybe there are people who suck up to City and Pep who will be fooled by you pointing out the points total, but you know the truth.

Everyone knows City’s squad was stronger.

 

[PepG]

Where can I watch this in full?

http://www.fullmatchesandshows.com/2018/05/15/monday-night-football-special-15th-may-2018-full-show/

 

[haram]

http://www.fullmatchesandshows.com/2018/05/15/monday-night-football-special-15th-may-2018-full-show/

Thank you.

 

[Jim Beam]

Thank you.

...and that is how haram went on the dark side

 

[Rajma]

just ask yourself if you want Pep as manager, my answer is yes.

How it is feckin relevant to the op. Does it say chose between Jose and Pep?

 

[haram]

...and that is how haram went on the dark side

Never

 

[Jim Beam]

Never

Was worried for a bit.

 

[Ban]

This is the new Messi vs Ronaldo now?

It has been for a while.

 

[haram]

I just finished watching it. I think if you have watched City this year you would have realised everything Pep said anyway.

 

[Josep Dowling]

Everything in my post is correct.

Klopp has won nothing thus far. And Liverpool just finished 2 places below United.

I agree. But if they win the Champions League this season. He’s won a major trophy with a smaller budget, selling one of his best players for over £140m and playing a style of football a majority of our fans want to see.

 

[robinamicrowave]

You dodged this? A number of people had City above us in the thread anyway.

Not dodging. Just can't be bothered checking all six alerts I got from one comment.

Our respective squads were deficient come the end of the 15/16 season - that's why we both finished on 66 points and why City only just scraped a Champions' League qualifying place. Since that point, though, City have made better decisions than United by signing better players and have subsequently taken further strides.

Of the squad City had for the 15-16 season, the players who featured this season were Kompany, Sterling, Aguero, De Bruyne, Delph, Mangala, Silva, Fernandinho, Yaya Toure and Otamendi, with Yaya and Mangala barely in the picture these days. That's ten players out of the twenty-seven who were named in our squad for that season. Of the squad United had for the 15-16 season, the players who remain are De Gea, Jones, Rojo, Mata, Martial, Smalling, Carrick, Blind, Young, Romero, Herrera, Shaw, Valencia, Fellaini, Lingard, Darmian and Rashford. That's seventeen (although Carrick, Darmian and Blind are hardly in the frame anymore).

So, point is, our squads were equally deficient in May 2016, we just made better steps to improve it. Pep only inherited a squad on paper, after all.

 

[haram]

Not dodging. Just can't be bothered checking all six alerts I got from one comment.

Our respective squads were deficient come the end of the 15/16 season - that's why we both finished on 66 points and why City only just scraped a Champions' League qualifying place. Since that point, though, City have made better decisions than United by signing better players and have subsequently taken further strides.

Of the squad City had for the 15-16 season, the players who featured this season were Kompany, Sterling, Aguero, De Bruyne, Delph, Mangala, Silva, Fernandinho, Yaya Toure and Otamendi, with Yaya and Mangala barely in the picture these days. That's ten players out of the twenty-seven who were named in our squad for that season. Of the squad United had for the 15-16 season, the players who remain are De Gea, Jones, Rojo, Mata, Martial, Smalling, Carrick, Blind, Young, Romero, Herrera, Shaw, Valencia, Fellaini, Lingard, Darmian and Rashford. That's seventeen (although Carrick, Darmian and Blind are hardly in the frame anymore).

So, point is, our squads were equally deficient in May 2016, we just made better steps to improve it. Pep only inherited a squad on paper, after all.

Naming a bunch of average players we still have in the squad as a result of us having to strengthen even weaker areas only proves my point that our squad was weaker. Whilst we were spending 150 million buying Pogba and Lukaku, City already had Aguero and de Bruyne. What a hilarious response. Players like Aguero and Silva who had proven their world class and premier league winning level were at the club before Pep arrived, and are big parts of the team now. Give it up mate.

 

[Bearded One]

Naming a bunch of average players we still have in the squad as a result of us having to strengthen even weaker areas only proves my point that our squad was weaker. Whilst we were spending 150 million buying Pogba and Lukaku, City already had Aguero and de Bruyne. What a hilarious response. Players like Aguero and Silva who had proven their world class and premier league winning level were at the club before Pep arrived, and are big parts of the team now. Give it up mate.

I know rating which team was better can be subjective atimes but I've always maintained that there wasn't much seperating both teams. They were going to sign Pogba but either decided against it or Pogba snubbed them in favour of us and so they turned their attacking midfielders into CMs which many thought was a disastrous move. They had WC stars but their team was also very old and imbalanced and these points were well documented here.

I for one would have preferred a signing like Aubaumeyang but that's just me anyway. Not saying Lukaku is crap or that he won't make it with us. I honestly believe he is trying and will only get better because he puts in the yards.
The difference between both teams' purchases in summer was almost exactly the amount they recouped by way of player sales which we could have also done without having to get extra spending from woody et al. The only real difference between the squad that finished 3rd the prior season and the one that had the title in the bag pretty much as far back as January 1st was Walker and Ederson. Sterling was playing like a man on drugs while Stones (fecking Stones) was considered one of the most improved players before his injury.

I know that their money grows on trees but you've got to give credit where it's due, their selling point is their system that gives them that dominance they have shown.

 

[The BlackGaijin]

Ohh the grace.. ohh the style..ohh the sophistication! I am sure even when he wipes his a** he does it with style. He uses the gentle petals of the softest flowers. Mourinho probably uses sand paper. I know he only won one title after outspending everyone but don’t think about that, just remember the graceful football.
He used Delph as a LB .. ohh the beauty.
He didn’t really give youth a chance ..ohh yes the inginuity.Ohh and Klopp is the same, so is Pochetino. We should hire them part time and get rid of this brute Mourinho.

Am I doing it right?

 

[haram]

I know rating which team was better can be subjective atimes but I've always maintained that there wasn't much seperating both teams. They were going to sign Pogba but either decided against it or Pogba snubbed them in favour of us and so they turned their attacking midfielders into CMs which many thought was a disastrous move. They had WC stars but their team was also very old and imbalanced and these points were well documented here.

I for one would have preferred a signing like Aubaumeyang but that's just me anyway. Not saying Lukaku is crap or that he won't make it with us. I honestly believe he is trying and will only get better because he puts in the yards.
The difference between both teams' purchases in summer was almost exactly the amount they recouped by way of player sales which we could have also done without having to get extra spending from woody et al. The only real difference between the squad that finished 3rd the prior season and the one that had the title in the bag pretty much as far back as January 1st was Walker and Ederson. Sterling was playing like a man on drugs while Stones (fecking Stones) was considered one of the most improved players before his injury.

I know that their money grows on trees but you've got to give credit where it's due, their selling point is their system that gives them that dominance they have shown.

Our best outfield players were Mata, Martial and Rashford. Two young players, one of which who had only played a couple months of first team football and another who had never even challenged for a league title. In fact both had never challenged. We also had Mata who is a good player, but clearly below someone like Silva. Even if you want to make comparisons, at the time, Iheanacho was regarded as a similar level to Rashford as well.

How does this compare to players like Silva and Aguero who had proven their level as league winners, whilst spending the 2 prior seasons in 1st and 2nd position? I'm sorry, there are no comparisons. Even with Sterling, he had been part of a real title challenge at Liverpool which is what got his move to City. De Bruyne had shown a very high level in Germany which is why they spent 50 million + on him.

The City fan I was responding to in this thread is trying to remove all of that context and trying to dumb it down to the points achieved in the season prior to Pep arriving. That does not illustrate the quality of players in the two squads accurately. One, because at the end of that season, City stopped playing with their manager leaving, and secondly because it doesn't mention that they finished 1st and 2nd in the two seasons before that. Well done to Pep for spending 250 million revamping an old defence. It's not like us having to spend money on players like Lukaku and Pogba hasn't affected what we can invest into our defence made up of players from 2011.

 

[marktan]

Have a look at the predictions in this thread and tell me that this was something United fans genuinely believed before a ball was kicked this season. Back in the summer City and United were considered to be on even footing. We run away with the league and suddenly you never stood a chance anyway, suddenly we're a team who were much better prepared all along.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/predict-the-season-2017-18-premier-league-edition.431189/

The problem is people on this forum make rubbish predictions all the time. Bakayoko and Morata were widely wanted by the forum last season, and yet now they're apparently terrible players.

The reality is that you guys had Aguero, De Bruyne, Sterling, Silva, Fernandinho already there when pep took over - a near world class midfield and attack. You've added Sane and one other midfielder to that. Comparatively our options at that time were Carrick, Scniederlin, Herrera, Rooney, Depay, Martial and Rashford. Outside of Herrera who's a decent enough midfielder but not a top one, and Martial (though I rate him a good level below both Sane and Sterling), the rest aren't great. We've spent £160m in the last two seasons trying to catch up with two players - Pogba and Lukaku.

On top of that the problems exacerbated by the fact you have a larger transfer budget than us. If you look at transfermarket, we've spent £130m net in the last two summer windows (£150m in spend which seems to be our limit) - whereas you've spent £200m net (£280m spend) and £170m net (£200m spend) in the last two windows. Thats £260m net for us vs £370m net for you - and £160m of our signings went on two players where you already had equally good players (Pogba and Lukaku).

The problem will continue this summer as you can spend £200m easily to buy players like Jorginho and top up an already strong team, whereas we'll have about £150m to sort our RW, RB, LB positions which are severely lacking, and then add a CM for depth. Jose has his work cut out this summer to do that on budget - it's doable and we are improving as a team.. but I'm just not sure it'll be enough to catch a City that's already better than us and will outspend us this summer.

The last time we faced a challenger that could so easily outspend us was Chelsea 2004-06, but SAF made some great signings on the cheap (Vidic, Evra), some middle expense players (Carrick), and then had a young Rooney and Ronaldo come into form alongside the established players in the team. City on the other hand I rate closer to where we were at the end of 2006-07 - we won the league and then signed Tevez, Nani, Anderson and Hargreaves to top up an already strong squad, and it won us the CL the following season.

 

[Badenfutbolfan]

like their owners?

sadly thats just wishful thinking.
Peps likely to be a city a couple more seasons.

I guess he just extended his contract until 2021

 

[Bearded One]

Our best outfield players were Mata, Martial and Rashford. Two young players, one of which who had only played a couple months of first team football and another who had never even challenged for a league title. In fact both had never challenged. We also had Mata who is a good player, but clearly below someone like Silva. Even if you want to make comparisons, at the time, Iheanacho was regarded as a similar level to Rashford as well.

How does this compare to players like Silva and Aguero who had proven their level as league winners, whilst spending the 2 prior seasons in 1st and 2nd position? I'm sorry, there are no comparisons. Even with Sterling, he had been part of a real title challenge at Liverpool which is what got his move to City. De Bruyne had shown a very high level in Germany which is why they spent 50 million + on him.

The City fan I was responding to in this thread is trying to remove all of that context and trying to dumb it down to the points achieved in the season prior to Pep arriving. That does not illustrate the quality of players in the two squads accurately. One, because at the end of that season, City stopped playing with their manager leaving, and secondly because it doesn't mention that they finished 1st and 2nd in the two seasons before that. Well done to Pep for spending 250 million revamping an old defence. It's not like us having to spend money on players like Lukaku and Pogba hasn't affected what we can invest into our defence made up of players from 2011.

Yes I agree they had a few near world class players but my point is they appeared stacked in an imbalanced way. Before he arrived KDB and Silva would always get in each others way meaning that one would have to play in a position that would reduce their effectiveness much.

They were inconsistent through out the season and deservedly just about scrapped fourth position not just when Pellegrini's exit was confirmed. Yes their team had gotten first and second in preceeding seasons but that's where the age issue comes to play. Players who were instrumental such as Yaya and Zabaleta and even Kompany were on their last legs. Their 2015/16 season was just about their level. Compare the two teams wholly. They had a porous defence and a weak center. Spurs team for example looked the more fitter, younger and energetic team than theirs.

They were superior up front of course but very lightweight in midfield and defence and could have also splurged big money on midfield too as every man and his dog knew that Yaya had lost his legs. I dreaded the times when Pogba was hailed heir to Yaya's throne so they must take credit for how their improvisation worked. We needed to strengthen and they needed to strengthen too so we cannot really say our needs were more than theirs. Moving attackers to midfield positions meant that they needed to buy attackers too.

We had Mata, Lingard, Rooney, Martial and Rashford and added Zlatan on a bossman. Whilst this was worse than what they had, it wasn't far too worse than what they had. And every where else on thr pitch, I'd rather have our players than theirs.

 

[Blue doomer]

Have a look at the predictions in this thread and tell me that this was something United fans genuinely believed before a ball was kicked this season. Back in the summer City and United were considered to be on even footing. We run away with the league and suddenly you never stood a chance anyway, suddenly we're a team who were much better prepared all along.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/predict-the-season-2017-18-premier-league-edition.431189/

After reading that thread, Why do so many posters on here always say it was obvious City was always going to win the league?

In fact some of those very posters have tipped Utd

 

[Son Of Sam]

http://www.fullmatchesandshows.com/2018/05/15/monday-night-football-special-15th-may-2018-full-show/

Thanks for the links
It was nice hearing from Pep and the 2 things he said were the most important to his glorious season was the investment in quality players & running.

He said if his players don’t run to cover for each other, they don’t play. Little wonder Sterling/Sane ran like they were demon-possessed. How many plays have that much desire in Man Utd? Maybe 2 or 3. These are the things Jose must address next season.

 

[kaiser1]

While having all these spending quality players discussion
Are we factoring the quality of players that Man utd got on a free e.g Zlatan and Sanchez in the regular market both would have cost about 150M.
That's >150M of quality they got for free.

 

[Cascarino]

Have a look at the predictions in this thread and tell me that this was something United fans genuinely believed before a ball was kicked this season. Back in the summer City and United were considered to be on even footing. We run away with the league and suddenly you never stood a chance anyway, suddenly we're a team who were much better prepared all along.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/predict-the-season-2017-18-premier-league-edition.431189/

Yeah I remember that thread, a fair few changed their stance with hindsight when City romped to the title.

Fwiw all fans do overrate their own teams chances at the start of the season

 

[haram]

We had Mata, Lingard, Rooney, Martial and Rashford and added Zlatan on a bossman. Whilst this was worse than what they had, it wasn't far too worse than what they had. And every where else on thr pitch, I'd rather have our players than theirs.

I’m sorry, Lingard only started playing at this level THIS season. He was nowhere near this level when Jose arrived. You cant just add him in to the quality players we had now with hindsight. I’ve already addressed the rest and adding Rooney in is a joke. He was finished. When you compare the squads City still had a head start.

You cannot claim they had a weak centre as if our one was strong? You realise we had Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger in there? There was a lack of investment in there for many years, and then Moyes and van Gaal simply added players who were not good enough.

 

[Skills]

Just signed a new 3 year contract

Edit: I'm late.

 

[robinamicrowave]

After reading that thread, Why do so many posters on here always say it was obvious City was always going to win the league?

In fact some of those very posters have tipped Utd

Because cognitive bias and motivated reasoning force them to bend and twist and convince themselves that Pep isn't that good really. It softens the blow of us running away with the league and him signing a new five-year-deal.

 

[Bearded One]

I’m sorry, Lingard only started playing at this level THIS season. He was nowhere near this level when Jose arrived. You cant just add him in to the quality players we had now with hindsight. I’ve already addressed the rest and adding Rooney in is a joke. He was finished. When you compare the squads City still had a head start.

You cannot claim they had a weak centre as if our one was strong? You realise we had Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger in there? There was a lack of investment in there for many years, and then Moyes and van Gaal simply added players who were not good enough.

Re:Schniderlin, at the time he was at Southampton, he was considered one of the best DMs in the league. Unfortunately he didn't kick on from that point. I remember that at the time we were very pleased with the transfer and it's only with hindsight you can suggest that it was a poor signing as things did not quite work out for him here. We also had Schweinsteiger, Carrick, Herrera, Schniderlin, Blind who could fill in at DM on occasion and Fellaini which was a fair mix without adding Pogba. Compare that list to Yaya, Fernandinho and Fernando. I know which set of players I'd rather have.

They were a hugely imbalanced unit. At the time I wondered how that the players they still relied on were their old guard whilst they spent ridiculous sums (literally monies grown on trees) on average players highlighting their poor spending ability.

My point is that attack Rooney inclusive who was already a shadow of his younger self was just as capable when you add Zlatan who was signed on a bossman. And Rooney was still a good option, one of the best attacking subs in the league at the time and if I remember correctly he scored quite a bit in that 2015/16 season. If there were any overall differences it was marginal looking at the overall squads.

 

[haram]

Re:Schniderlin, at the time he was at Southampton, he was considered one of the best DMs in the league. Unfortunately he didn't kick on from that point. I remember that at the time we were very pleased with the transfer and it's only with hindsight you can suggest that it was a poor signing as things did not quite work out for him here. We also had Schweinsteiger, Carrick, Herrera, Schniderlin, Blind who could fill in at DM on occasion and Fellaini which was a fair mix without adding Pogba. Compare that list to Yaya, Fernandinho and Fernando. I know which set of players I'd rather have.

Yes, conveniently leave out de Bruyne and Silva. Im done with this.

 

[Bearded One]

Yes, conveniently leave out de Bruyne and Silva. Im done with this.

No pal, I wouldn't add them because they were attacking players not central midfielders going into the new season. It is with hindsight that we can say it was such a good move but it was considered almost suicidal loosing out on Pogba "the heir to Yaya's throne" and relying on a technical god but a fringe one to do the hustle and bustle in midfield along with KDB who although we knew was about the best final ball specialist in the league, his wayward passing and laziness could open their team up to deadly counter attacks all game long.

 

[haram]

No pal, I wouldn't add them because they were attacking players not central midfielders going into the new season. It is with hindsight that we can say it was such a good move but it was considered almost suicidal loosing out on Pogba "the heir to Yaya's throne" and relying on a technical god but a fringe one to do the hustle and bustle in midfield along with KDB who although we knew was about the best final ball specialist in the league, his wayward passing and laziness could open their team up to deadly counter attacks all game long.

So you want to leave those players out but earlier when we were discussing the quality inherited by Mourinho you added in Lingard?

You are skewing everything to suit your arguement. Sorry, the likes of Blind, Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, an ageing Carrick (like you keep banging on about Yaya) and Fellaini does not stand up to City’s midfield when Pep arrived. Nice try though.

 

[Bearded One]

So you want to leave those players out but earlier when we were discussing the quality inherited by Mourinho you added in Lingard?

You are skewing everything to suit your arguement. Sorry, the likes of Blind, Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, an ageing Carrick (like you keep banging on about Yaya) and Fellaini does not stand up to City’s midfield when Pep arrived. Nice try though.

I'll tell you why I didn't add KDB and Silva. See one of my previous posts, I already included them in their list of attackers except you want me to include them as attackers and also include them as midfielders. That would be an unfair thing to do. For example I wouldn't class Mata as one of our midfielders because he was and is an attacker.

I never suggested that Lingard was a world beater, I only added him among the list of our attackers and he played a fair bit that season and got a few important goals. No more no less.

 

[kouroux]

Thanks for the links
It was nice hearing from Pep and the 2 things he said were the most important to his glorious season was the investment in quality players & running.

He said if his players don’t run to cover for each other, they don’t play. Little wonder Sterling/Sane ran like they were demon-possessed. How many plays have that much desire in Man Utd? Maybe 2 or 3. These are the things Jose must address next season.

And many of our fans go on about how Mourinho is ruining our attacking players and how they would play well under Pep. Guardiola is a man who got rid of top class players in his career because they didn't fit in with the concept you talked about.

 

[Water Melon]

So 3 more seasons with City for Pep? Lets see who leaves the Premier League first.