Rocksy
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Schmeichel is a bit of a weapon, isn’t he?
Which 11 players?A lot of people tend to forget the job LVG did in stripping out the deadwood. He moved on about 11 players that weren't united standard or way past their best. Moyes was giving them extended contracts. We needed LVG straight after SAF. Moyes was a yes man and Fergie was the puppet master.
Moyes reign could have been different if he didn’t immediately let the idea of “i need to do it my way” take so much hold of him. He never changed his mindset around it and thus help he could and probably would have got never came.I doubt any amount of time would have mattered with Moyes.
Manager don't learn from each other, just look at the Chelsea daisy chain.That upheaval isn't a reason why Moyes did badly. Moyes did badly because he is a bad manager, period. He deserved no more time.
LvG won a trophy and atleast gave us a few good moments in big games. He was a terrible manager but did much better than Moyes ever would have even if the latter had been given another year.
For argument sake, what if we sacked Moyes in Nov, re-install Fergi as interim manager, until we can find a long term replacement.... May be it will still be LVG but our season may not be so terrible, with Vidic, Evra walked out of their contract.Moyes is a shite manager. What would giving him time achieve?
It baffles me that so many past players and fans think that he should have been given time. Based on what? He was shit at Sociedad, he was shit at Sunderland. He didn’t exactly set the world on fire at West Ham or Everton... he’s never won a trophy in his life. So what are we basing this on? He had his chance and he failed miserably.
If you ask me, he was sacked too late.
This.A shame that Fergie's last official activity was his biggest mistake.
And Schmeichel should shut up.
"You're used to disappointment" line had me in stitchesRelive the moment. Moyes spreading joy. Newcastle defeated us at OT after decades.
Moyes on RVP (when he was playing with injury) - "I think if I’d brought him off against Newcastle some people would have said ‘What are you doing? You are 1-0 down and you’re taking off your top goalscorer". Dummy's guide on how to ruin career of a striker.
Bild is better than Evans. Evans was also horrible in Moyes season, while all our players underperformed, he was easily the worst of them, and looked more like a Sunda league player.Which 11 players?
Van Gaal's problem was he tried to do too much in too short a space of time, he sold/loaned/released 22-24 players in 18 months and bought very poorly he replaced deadwood with more expensive deadwood for the most part. Granted Martial is a very good player fair enough and Blind was decent but no better than Evans as a CB if we've honest. Outside of that it's only Romero who you could classify as a success.
Rojo, Schneiderlin, Depay, Falcao, Valdes, DiMaria, Darmian, Schweinsteiger were all terrible signings. Its well known Shaw and Herrera as LVG himself has stated were club signings that he had little to do with. They were already signed by the time he took over.
Neville is not terrible, when he is not talking for United. He also seem to be extremely stubborn. I genuinely think that 'give the manager all the time he needs' bullshit is not something that he believes anymore, but he has supported that idea for so long, that he just cannot take it back.Dunno why but it seems all our ex players that go into punditry are bellends. Wayne seems to talk some sense at times, but the likes of Neville, Ince, Schmeichel and co seem really off it.
I agree on that. Nevs is a very good technical analyst, but as a pundit he has his off moments, most likely because he's part of the older generation, just used to "let's give the manager more time".Neville is not terrible, when he is not talking for United. He also seem to be extremely stubborn. I genuinely think that 'give the manager all the time he needs' bullshit is not something that he believes anymore, but he has supported that idea for so long, that he just cannot take it back.
More like aspiring to be the Division 1 champions.He's right though. If Moyes had stayed he'd have made us Division 1 champions by now.
We wouldn't have won those 3 trophies we won, neither reach UCL twice (though we didn't do that great there), and would have solidified ourselves as a midtable team. A bit like Liverpool between Benitez and Klopp (minus the title challenging year under Rodgers) years.I agree with Schmeichel.
After Moyes we wasted what 3 more years. Would it have been that bad if Moyes had been given another year?
Well i disagree on Blind/Evans. Personally think Evans is the better CB.Bild is better than Evans. Evans was also horrible in Moyes season, while all our players underperformed, he was easily the worst of them, and looked more like a Sunda league player.
While back then Van Gaal looked stupid to sell players, most of his decisions have been justified. Rafael and Nani couldn't do anything after they left, same for Hernandez (Rafael and Chicharito were my two favorite players back then). Ando was shit, as was Cleverley. Welbeck spends his time at the hospital. All of these decisions in hindsight seem to have been spot on.
When it comes to signings, LVG was hit and miss. Shaw and Herrera are still important to the club, Martial is one of our top 3 or 4 players, Blind was important in all trophies we won since SAF left and we got the money back for him, Romero is probably the best second keeper in the world. He also gave the debut to Rashford, one or two years before anyone was thinking that Rashford will play for us, and made Lingard return from loan to become a regular here. There were some bad signings like Di Maria and Falcao, but then we got most of the money back for Di Maria. Schweinsteiger was a horrible signing, as were Depay and Schneiderlin, though again, we got our money back from them.
All things considered, his job was not a success, but also not a total failure. Our entire current attack is built from him, one way or another. His biggest problem was that he was a very boring manager, which means that he wasn't going to make it at us. Our second season went to shit, when the fans started 'Attack Attack Attack'. It gets understated, but United needs not only a good manager, but a manager which knows what United way is. Not complicated football, just straightforward devastating attacking football which makes us all enjoy it. Van Gaal wasn't that man, neither was Jose, Ole looks to be that man.
We qualified for the CL 2 years out of 3 and won 3 trophies, hardly wasted. Moyes has never won a trophy or qualified for the CL in his career and he never would have at United.I agree with Schmeichel.
After Moyes we wasted what 3 more years. Would it have been that bad if Moyes had been given another year?
Also, we were quite decent against top clubs. Multiple victories against Liverpool, City, Arsenal and Spurs, while Moyes managed to win a single game against top 6 opponents.We qualified for the CL 2 years out of 3 and won 3 trophies, hardly wasted. Moyes has never won a trophy or qualified for the CL in his career and he never would have at United.
We lost 3-0 at home to Liverpool and then City in the space of about 10 days or something like that.Also, we were quite decent against top clubs. Multiple victories against Liverpool, City, Arsenal and Spurs, while Moyes managed to win a single game against top 6 opponents.
As bad as things were under Moyes, the feeling of helplessness every time we faced a big squad was something that was just impossible to handle. We lost 0-3 against Liverpool and 1-4 against City, and we were lucky in both matches to not have conceded more. Every fan knew that we were going to be thrashed on those games, and sure we did.
The following season, LVG defeated Liverpool home and away and defeated City too.
I love how Schmeichel divides our fanbase, makes me laugh.Top red Cartwheel Schmeichel. He can feck right off.
Based on what?What I would say is that if Moyes was the manager in 2014/15 I think we would have ended higher up than with LvG because of no european football. To finish 4th that season was very poor considering all the rest the players had after also going out of league cup against MK Dons.
Yeah I agree he likely never would have at United but given the appointments afterwards I think it would have brought some stability to the club. Many will disagree on me with this but I think LVG tore the soul of this club and damaged it far more than Moyes.We qualified for the CL 2 years out of 3 and won 3 trophies, hardly wasted. Moyes has never won a trophy or qualified for the CL in his career and he never would have at United.
I agree with this. I think Moyes wasn't as bad as the table suggested but he was never good enough anyway so doesn't matter.To steal a quote from Die Hard 2, Moyes was the wrong guy in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Challenger Deep levels of out of his depthness.