Moved To Differently
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- Sep 1, 2013
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Are you a robot?You asked how he would teach someone to think for themselves, and he answered by giving a few systems that provide the framework to come to a conclusion.
Are you a robot?You asked how he would teach someone to think for themselves, and he answered by giving a few systems that provide the framework to come to a conclusion.
I can’t teach it to you over a post on a forum, but I can tell you how it is done, and I did. Besides that, you already said you think it is impossible to do and is “from god”, whatever that means, so forgive me for not wasting my time.Okay, teach it to me.
Yeah… because man didn’t understand where the sun went at night. Solid.Man was inspiring to create the term 'God'. If you name my painting did you draw it?
Have you been to the dark side of the moon?I can’t teach it to you over a post on a forum, but I can tell you how it is done, and I did. Besides that, you already said you think it is impossible to do and is “from god”, whatever that means, so forgive me for not wasting my time.
Yeah… because man didn’t understand where the sun went at night. Solid.
awareness of one's self as self. distinctly meta in nature and somewhat "virtual".consciousness
I am a fan of Pink Floyd.Have you been to the dark side of the moon?
I'm acute, my other half says so?He just did.
Why are you so obtuse?
What do you even mean by we?Not thinking were we?
That went right over my head , I'm sorry.awareness of one's self as self. distinctly meta in nature and somewhat "virtual".
what do you mean by "think"?
That blew my mind a little. I think I'll leave it there for tonight. Many thanks.What do you even mean by we?
Are you talking about The Royal we, or are you alluding to some spurious collective? Are you even aware of the grand pantheistic unity of all things to each other, residing within their cosmological stasis? Where ex nihilo nihil fit, and all lie rigid within a crustacean shell.
What do you even mean by we?
Are you talking about The Royal we, or are you alluding to some spurious collective? Are you even aware of the grand pantheistic unity of all things to each other, residing within their cosmological stasis? Where ex nihilo nihil fit, and all lie rigid within a crustacean shell.
What do you even mean by we?
Are you talking about The Royal we, or are you alluding to some spurious collective? Are you even aware of the grand pantheistic unity of all things to each other, residing within their cosmological stasis? Where ex nihilo nihil fit, and all lie rigid within a crustacean shell.
I'm actually enjoying your posts in this thread, and think you add some liveliness to it, but I don't think you know what some words meanAre you a robot?
By not saying extremely dumb, cringey, meaningless things like "up yours woke moralists, we'll see who cancels who", obviously. If you think that's a normal thing to say for a real person, then you've fallen too far down the Peterson black hole.When he gets technical, he's verbose. When he uses basic language you mock him. How does a person win?
I wish Harris would spend as much time worrying about context as you're sugessting we do.Again on Harris, I encourage people to do their own reading in context. Don't watch YouTube videos commentating on bits and pieces. Here's the entire discussion with Ezra Klein: https://www.vox.com/2018/4/9/17210248/sam-harris-ezra-klein-charles-murray-transcript-podcast
I strongly believe, and still do, that Harris could care less about race and IQ outside of sharing a view with a guest while discussing it. As someone that has been personally attacked numerous times for his opinions, he is extremely interested in people he feels are also unfairly treated because of research or views. Justifiably or not. That's the Murray issue. Harris shouldn't have doubled-down, shouldn't have been so defensive imo, but you're still conflating Murray's views (which for the reasons Klein points out have to be taken in context of his greater works) and Harris. As Harris says: "While I have very little interest in IQ and actually zero interest in racial differences in IQ, I invited Murray on my podcast, because he had recently been de-platformed at Middlebury College. He and his host were actually assaulted as they left the auditorium. In my view, this seemed yet another instance of kind of a moral panic that we were seeing on college campuses. It caused me to take an interest in Murray that I hadn’t previously had. I had never read The Bell Curve, because I thought it was just ... It must be just racist trash, because I assumed that where there was all that smoke, there must be fire. I hadn’t paid attention to Murray."
Surely there are actual people that care about this stuff you could target your ire towards - like Murray himself - rather than Sam Harris?
Good morningI wish Harris would spend as much time worrying about context as you're sugessting we do.
This is the cnut that when Guantanamo Bay was filled to the brim, wrote a "thought experiment" about if its okay to torture people if you knew they knew the location of a nuclear bomb that was about to go off.
It's evident to anyone that reads books that arent shit like the bell curve or petersons self help shit, that he does not knowing what he's talking about.
Harris can spend hours discussing Iraq when his knowledge is limited to Kurds here, Sunni here, Shjia here, Saddam Sunni bad against the others.
Anyone who isn't a fecking moron knows that this isn't sufficient knowledge to form an opinion with.
Gun to his head he probably wouldnt get the decade right the nation was founded. Yet hell produce hours of contrnt content detailing his thoughts on how its islams fault or something (another subject he rambles on for hours yet has never demonstrated he knows much about).
Harris is the dumb man's smart person.
Go read a book on the subject of his next podcast that isnt recommended by him and you'll see just how dim this guy is.
If that is too much work and you're interested in an oppossing view, search for Sam Seder's critique of Sam Harris
One born every day.You can accuse him of verbosity, and fair enough that's a matter of opinion - I personally love his linguistic style, I think it's a stylistic choice, it's an art form, nobody criticizes a painter for using too many strokes, but our primary interest is football where as in all practical things, economy of movement is paramount.
But the essence of what he's saying is hard to argue against. Make our society more democratic, and the will of the people will drive the push toward environmental responsibility. Or perhaps he's giving his readers a platform to arrive at their own conclusions. Using the above you can either conclude that our society isn't democratic enough, or, it is reasonably democratic, people just don't care enough about climate change. The latter is not hard to believe, how many people were and still are Covid responsible? Hard to make the assumption a person cares about the life of a person on the other side of the world in some 3rd world country when they don't seem to care about the health of the person sat across from them on the bus.
This particular degenerate has a whole thread dedicated to him.
Oh I have missed it.This particular degenerate has a whole thread dedicated to him.
He's a different vibe though. Not cloaked in pseudo-intellectualism like Peterson. Just a straight up, wannabe alpha male, misogynist. Surely there's nothing new about him though? Haven't kids been mainlining dubious misogynistic/right wing tropes on youtube for years now?
Yeah, he seems to have used Tiktok quite effectively. That seems to differentiate him from the OG shit-heads. And TikTok is addictive at a level that even Youtube never quite managed.Oh I have missed it.
Not sure if it's new or not-there were many saying the same things (PUAs) but he seems to be popular among much younger people by spreading on algorithm-based giant sites rather than blogs.
He really isn't. Is very hateful, always seems to have a grudge to settle and constantly attacks certain groups based on pseudoscience and conspiracy theories.he's a lovely guy
Every psychologist I know, and I know many, being married to one and socialising with her colleagues, thinks he's a fecking charlatan and is bringing the whole industry into disrepute. And you can't be an intellectual without actual intellect.Redcafe users calling modern intellectuals pseudo intellectual feels incredibly ironic somehow...
I tried listening to a lot of Slavoj Zizec as the stuff he came out with in his debate with Peterson was immensely intelligent ("it's easy to say to people clean your room, but if the Rest of the house is on fire what do you do" was an amazingly pertinent quote) but found it hard to follow mainly because of his style, accent, and of English not being his first language. So as much as I'd love to listen to a podcast from the left side, the closest I got was Lawrence Krauss - although he has since been "cancelled" of course
But it's weird how angry people get about Jordan Peterson because to my mind he's a lovely guy trying to figure the world out from a psychologists slant. And when you listen to his psychology it's world class stuff - his philosophy though, pretty hard to grapple with and maybe less insightful than Jordan Peterson seems to think it is. That said, the man makes great points and his stuff on Solzhenitsyn is scarily accurate. How do you run a country (like Russia) where things like the truth are anathema to state.
Which other psychologists do you listen to/read?Redcafe users calling modern intellectuals pseudo intellectual feels incredibly ironic somehow...
I tried listening to a lot of Slavoj Zizec as the stuff he came out with in his debate with Peterson was immensely intelligent ("it's easy to say to people clean your room, but if the Rest of the house is on fire what do you do" was an amazingly pertinent quote) but found it hard to follow mainly because of his style, accent, and of English not being his first language. So as much as I'd love to listen to a podcast from the left side, the closest I got was Lawrence Krauss - although he has since been "cancelled" of course
But it's weird how angry people get about Jordan Peterson because to my mind he's a lovely guy trying to figure the world out from a psychologists slant. And when you listen to his psychology it's world class stuff - his philosophy though, pretty hard to grapple with and maybe less insightful than Jordan Peterson seems to think it is. That said, the man makes great points and his stuff on Solzhenitsyn is scarily accurate. How do you run a country (like Russia) where things like the truth are anathema to state.
He has spoken to dozens of qualified scientists on his podcasts. Calling -everything- he says pseudoscience when there are many genuine attempts to listen to real science is strange to me. Though obviously you don't need to agree with the conclusions he draws (often formed by Peterson's obvious confirmation bias). Like - I don't agree at all with his beliefs regarding vaccination and it's tough to listen to. but on the other hand his exploration of the real work that is being done in the world in his podcast with Bjorn Lomberg is fascinating - the maths/economics of global improvement..... constantly attacks certain groups based on pseudoscience and conspiracy theories.
The clinical side of psychology or the academic side? Because like with any soft science the academic side doesn’t have much repute to begin with.Every psychologist I know, and I know many, being married to one and socialising with her colleagues, thinks he's a fecking charlatan and is bringing the whole industry into disrepute.
I didn't say everything he says is pseudoscience, he was a university professor so I would assume he knows stuff. I said the things he chooses to attack certain groups, like women or transgender, are pseudoscience. He's obviously prejudiced so he hides behind word salads and draws the conclusion he wanted all along, citing examples that are false.He has spoken to dozens of qualified scientists on his podcasts. Calling -everything- he says pseudoscience when there are many genuine attempts to listen to real science is strange to me. Though obviously you don't need to agree with the conclusions he draws (often formed by Peterson's obvious confirmation bias). Like - I don't agree at all with his beliefs regarding vaccination and it's tough to listen to. but on the other hand his exploration of the real work that is being done in the world in his podcast with Bjorn Lomberg is fascinating - the maths/economics of global improvement.
What false examples does he cite, exactly? Because he genuinely tries to back up his arguments with some experimental / demonstrable evidence. Like again, I disagree with him on vaccinations but he does cite a Canadian doctors paper expressing their disapproval of their policy so even in that case there's at least some sort of background research.He's obviously prejudiced so he hides behind word salads and draws the conclusion he wanted all along, citing examples that are false.
Why do these psychologists think Peterson is a charlatan, exactly? At the very least, Peterson -taught- psychology at Harvard University and clearly had many high achieving clients, so it's not like he was BAD at his job. Maybe he's bad at philosophy, but that's not really a psychologists field.Every psychologist I know, and I know many, being married to one and socialising with her colleagues, thinks he's a fecking charlatan and is bringing the whole industry into disrepute. And you can't be an intellectual without actual intellect.
I'm sorry mate but I really don't have the energy or time for this.What false examples does he cite, exactly? Because he genuinely tries to back up his arguments with some experimental / demonstrable evidence. Like again, I disagree with him on vaccinations but he does cite a Canadian doctors paper expressing their disapproval of their policy so even in that case there's at least some sort of background research.
And he doesn't "attack" women or Transgender people. It's the opposite if anything:. See: the infamous Cathy Newman debate.
You're lucky that the other poster turned out to be sexually attracted to kids, because after that the thing I hate most is people misusing the term ironicRedcafe users calling modern intellectuals pseudo intellectual feels incredibly ironic somehow...
This might have been true a long time ago (or at least he was acting earnestly). The others mentioned in this thread I don't know much about, at least first hand. It's usually filtered through to me on places like here. I still think you can assess an argument from them without having consumed their entire backlog of work, but you definitely have less of a feel for them and lack a holistic understanding, at least that's the case with me. JP is a bit different for me, I find him interesting. I really liked his verbose way of conveying thoughts, I have his first two books and I've watched and read a lot of his work. I still find him interesting, but he's always had a lot of moronic takes. He's striker10 gone box office. This has only snowballed to the point that he's so wrapped up in coming out with the worst takeaways on the current discourse, that virtually everything he says is hilarious. It's only compounded by his lack of knowledge when it comes to both history and politics.But it's weird how angry people get about Jordan Peterson because to my mind he's a lovely guy trying to figure the world out from a psychologists slant. And when you listen to his psychology it's world class stuff - his philosophy though, pretty hard to grapple with and maybe less insightful than Jordan Peterson seems to think it is. That said, the man makes great points and his stuff on Solzhenitsyn is scarily accurate. How do you run a country (like Russia) where things like the truth are anathema to state.
I honestly didn't know this, genuinely sorry about that mate you're quite right. I hadn't followed him since like a few months back when I was driving a few hours a week regularly and listening to various podcasts. Very strange hill for him to die on, he doesn't look well right now. Normally he is more composed and rational. I think the last few years have taken a serious toll on the guy...I mean, he was literally banned from twitter for attacking a transgender actor.
ClinicalThe clinical side of psychology or the academic side? Because like with any soft science the academic side doesn’t have much repute to begin with.
Because of how he's misusing his qualification to make points he has no right to and making others think that there is some psychological basis for his claims.Why do these psychologists think Peterson is a charlatan, exactly? At the very least, Peterson -taught- psychology at Harvard University and clearly had many high achieving clients, so it's not like he was BAD at his job. Maybe he's bad at philosophy, but that's not really a psychologists field.
It's not strange at all, it was just more direct and vitriolic that it used to be. His feelings about trans people haven't changed.I honestly didn't know this, genuinely sorry about that mate you're quite right. I hadn't followed him since like a few months back when I was driving a few hours a week regularly and listening to various podcasts. Very strange hill for him to die on, he doesn't look well right now. Normally he is more composed and rational. I think the last few years have taken a serious toll on the guy...
@Cascarino
Yea having just seen the latest I see what you mean. A few years ago the guy was a force, but - I'm gonna defend him a final time here - he's got that autoimmune thing to deal with and I believe his family has had SERIOUS health issues, as well as Peterson himself, and it seems like it's turned him a bit less Cognizant and a bit more bitter with his words.