I'm not doubting his ability but your post pretty much sums up my point.he is not a limited player. CB will probably always be his 'main' position. But I would not be surprised to see him as a defensive midfielder. He is quick, can tackle,has excellent ball control and can pass. Heck the kid is only 19 or 20. Just watch him develop into a superb footballer both for us and for England
Phil Jones
- Thread starter Baby Faced Assassin
- Start date
I'm not at all convinced by Evans - I think it's a Jones-Smalling partnership long-term with Evans doing the fill-in bit.
Not convinced? He's fighting it out with Carrick to be our player of the season. He's been fantastic all year and is what, 23? He was shakey last season when low on confidence but going back to our long clean sheet run with Van Der Sar, he played more minutes than either Ferdinand or Vidic.
He's clearly going to be a very very good defender and he has a massive advantage over Jones in that the thinking side of defending comes natural to him. I think people forget how Young he still is. Defenders typically don't start to peak til 26 or so, he's got another couple of seasons til he's there.
He struggles with both pace and physicality - that's OK against Wolves and QPR but not against Barca et al. Plus he always has a mistake in him.
He hasn't struggled with anything since last year.
Physicality has been something he possessed and clearly worked on. Hes given Drogba a rough ride when he's played and recently he's had Bruce and Vidic talk about his style this year and SAF... He attacks the ball a lot more. I think he's very underestimated!
people being harsh on evans shocker
the 'mistake' pete refers to is really lack of concentration. Since that City 'mistake' which set them on their big win, such lapses have been few and far between. His tackles and interceptions have been superb. He also has the confidence and ball skills to go forward a lot more.
It will be interesting when Vidic returns.
It will be interesting when Vidic returns.
I am with Storey on this one this season notwithstanding.
I still think Evans is at best a solid backup as he lacks the physical gifts of a top CB at United.
At least he overcame his shattered confidence after a string of mistakes and has been the lone consistent defender this season.
I still think Evans is at best a solid backup as he lacks the physical gifts of a top CB at United.
At least he overcame his shattered confidence after a string of mistakes and has been the lone consistent defender this season.
Meanwhile Phil Jones' physical gifts portend greatness, and we have been able to blood him in the first team at a young age. Is he ready for England yet? Maybe not, but how many were at his age?
Crazy that people talk about Jones having the physical attributes to play centre-half which Evans lacks. He's about 3 or 4 inches taller, for starters. That's one of the most important physical attributes of all and, crucially, will never change.
Jones - 185cm
Evans - 189cm
Hrm, for some reason I thought Jones was taller... Not that it makes much difference.
Evans - 189cm
Hrm, for some reason I thought Jones was taller... Not that it makes much difference.
I dont know what Jones will turn into but ATM Evans is a better choice for a CB spot. basically his much better at staying focused.
How many games has Jones played in CB before this ? I think he will come around and be a massive player for us in the next 2-3 years. And yes, CB would be his main position.
My nan disagrees
Interestingly Bryan Robson started his career being alternated between CB, FB and CM before going on to become one of the greatest midfielders of all time.
Jonesy has been a bit inconsistent since xmas, but he has had an above average season overall. Fwiw, I dont think he should be ahead of anyone in their natural position right now.
Evans has been superb. Way to step up to the mark, young man!
I feel like Brian Clough now.
Evans has been superb. Way to step up to the mark, young man!
I feel like Brian Clough now.
I like Jones as a Wes Brown style RB. The way Evra plays these days he's practically a midfielder and it's up an actual midfielder to get back and allow Rio or whoever to get over on the left side of defense. Wes was great for this because he could slide over and fill in at CB very easily, and that back like of Brown, Rio, Vidic and Evra had the best defensive record of any United back line ever.
I still have a feeling that being a simple CB isn't his destiny, that it would be too much of a limitation for his skill set. Perhaps he's being groomed as a Pique/Javi Martinez sort that will dribble from CB and join the midfield at times to create a numerical advantage. It's one way to try to play more 'total football' and certainly hurt us against Athletic Club.
I still have a feeling that being a simple CB isn't his destiny, that it would be too much of a limitation for his skill set. Perhaps he's being groomed as a Pique/Javi Martinez sort that will dribble from CB and join the midfield at times to create a numerical advantage. It's one way to try to play more 'total football' and certainly hurt us against Athletic Club.
can someone post his stats from the match? Im interested to know his average position, pass completion % etc
He played really high up the pitch. Bizarrely. He was ok but we were a fair bit better when he went off.
I don't think he is a bad option in midfield but I can't understand why we play him as an auxiliary attacking midfielder
I don't like seeing him in midfield and I don understand why he played over Young. Doesn't matter anyway.
Thought he played quite well today. I think a really important part of this match was establishing control and putting Blackburn on the back put for long periods. This set the tone for the seige we lay to their goal, and aside from a couple of very good but speculative strikes, we really didn't give them a sniff.
Playing Jones in the midfield 3 really put a strangehold on the match. When we need to chae the game a little bit more we had the option of introducing some attacking subs. Which we did to greta effect. By then the tone for Blackburn sitting on the edge of their own box while we kept possession had been set.
Brilliant tactics, brilliant management.
Jones taken over the O'shea role (for this season anyway) and with all due respect to O'shea, I think we have taken an immediate upgrade. The future is also very bright.
The only player who I thought looked a bit poor today was Chicharito.
Playing Jones in the midfield 3 really put a strangehold on the match. When we need to chae the game a little bit more we had the option of introducing some attacking subs. Which we did to greta effect. By then the tone for Blackburn sitting on the edge of their own box while we kept possession had been set.
Brilliant tactics, brilliant management.
Jones taken over the O'shea role (for this season anyway) and with all due respect to O'shea, I think we have taken an immediate upgrade. The future is also very bright.
The only player who I thought looked a bit poor today was Chicharito.
I felt he faded a bit in the second half and he always looks knackered, I really wonder why
1st start in ages
If we're playing him in midfield, he should not have been played so high up. You need good off the ball movement, vision and quick passing to be able to play in an attacking role. He should have played deeper and perhaps pushed Scholes up. Jones was very static.
Inclined to agree. I think Fergie may just want to give the lad minutes on the pitch, since that is what he needs, and with the amount of options in defense he is much more likely to find a game in midfield currently. Neither Scholes nor Carrick are ever going to be 'attacking' midfielders positionally, so that leaves Jones to fill the role.
I wouldn't have minded trying him at RB and try old Rafael as an AM personally
He played about as well as could be expected of him in that role though I think. This is his first season and it's possible that SAF is still trying to fully gauge the lads qualities and potential in different areas. I think he will become much more than a utility man, but rather a similar sort of player to Rooney (obviously a defensive one though) who is talented enough to play more or less any position in the back line or midfield. He will still have his favoured roles but that versatility is a quality which SAF tends to like having in his players.
I wouldn't have minded trying him at RB and try old Rafael as an AM personally
He played about as well as could be expected of him in that role though I think. This is his first season and it's possible that SAF is still trying to fully gauge the lads qualities and potential in different areas. I think he will become much more than a utility man, but rather a similar sort of player to Rooney (obviously a defensive one though) who is talented enough to play more or less any position in the back line or midfield. He will still have his favoured roles but that versatility is a quality which SAF tends to like having in his players.
Midfield is not his gig, I'm afraid. He doesn't play with the same awareness or composure as Scholes or Carrick.
It's one thing being good on the ball from the back, when you can see the entire pitch in front of you, and quite another when you need to retain the ball and create from midfield.
Thus far, his best performances have been at right full back. Needs to improve aerially and needs to improve his defending when players run off him, if he's to carve a career at centre back.
I like Jones, but I'm worried about him not nailing a position down. Generally, you don't tend to get top class utility players.
It's one thing being good on the ball from the back, when you can see the entire pitch in front of you, and quite another when you need to retain the ball and create from midfield.
Thus far, his best performances have been at right full back. Needs to improve aerially and needs to improve his defending when players run off him, if he's to carve a career at centre back.
I like Jones, but I'm worried about him not nailing a position down. Generally, you don't tend to get top class utility players.
43 passes at 84% completed.
His average position was almost identical to Chicharito. Subs in parentheses.
...................1......................
........................................... penalty area
...........................................
...........................................
............6............5...............
...........................................
...........................................
..21...4.14...16.22.................. midfield
.........................10........3.....
.....................[19]...[18].......
..25.......................[11].........
You can find all that info on the telegraph's match report under the 'Live' tab.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...lackburn-Rovers-v-Manchester-United-live.html
Positionally it was wrong for him yesterday, he looked a bit lost in the midfield area there.
I feel we put him in as more of a destroyer, but when we were so commanding he didnt really seem like he knew what to do, or where to go.
Thats not really his fault though, he has never played in that sort of scenario and will learn it in time.
Personally feel he should be doing carricks holding role if he is in midfield, but as said previously it was good he got an hour on the pitch, but when giggsy and young came on, we looked 10x better.
I feel we put him in as more of a destroyer, but when we were so commanding he didnt really seem like he knew what to do, or where to go.
Thats not really his fault though, he has never played in that sort of scenario and will learn it in time.
Personally feel he should be doing carricks holding role if he is in midfield, but as said previously it was good he got an hour on the pitch, but when giggsy and young came on, we looked 10x better.
I don't think that's true. Before he got wrecked by injury Essien had his best season for Chelsea alternating between midfield and right back. You've also got players like Mascherano and Busquets at Barca, who both slot in and out of the back four. Not to mention the players Capello compared Jones to when he first worked with him in the England team - Hierro or Baresi.
I thought there were some encouraging signs last night. He looked a bit more comfortable on the ball and passed it fairly well. Still looked almost completely clueless about how to position himself when not on the ball but that will come with coaching and time.
Baresi? He was a central defender and that only.
He's young enough to improve his awareness and midfield tactical/positional play, just as he's young enough to improve at defending. Given time i'm sure he'll be good as any in either position.
Don't write him off because of a few average performances - players especially young ones will always have their good games and their average ones.
What does he know? :-)
I've never seen Baresi in midfield, neither have Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco_baresi
I don't think his close control is good enough to play in midfield at the moment. Whenever the ball is played into him at pace I expect him to lose it. I think RB is his best position at the moment but Rafael is doing superbly. Can't see a place for Jones in the first XI at the mo.
We just don't play with a static ground and pound style DM that has made De Jong a powerhouse in the past and was getting Lucas immense praise.
In a dynamic role I think he's not disciplined enough to play in midfield. I honestly wanted him to play as the pure DM of a X-1-X formation and see if it was viable. But to be fair we just don't need it. We have Carrick who may not be the greatest in general defence his dynamic ability and good reading of play while play making and not sitting so deep means we don't need that limited DM. Jones playing the more dynamic role that we utilise our midfield means it's near on identical playing Evans or Rio or Vidic in the same role. (Or insert CB here)
Does he have the discipline and the ability to learn and play like Carrick?... I honestly don't think so. When the time comes that we don't have Carrick there and can no longer play Rooney at the top of the diamond with two midfielders in behind is the day he may get another shot at playing in central midfield and be useful.
But I just see his marauding being more useful on the wing where he doesn't have a full XY range of his zone to cover. That zone being one of the most important in a game of football.
In a dynamic role I think he's not disciplined enough to play in midfield. I honestly wanted him to play as the pure DM of a X-1-X formation and see if it was viable. But to be fair we just don't need it. We have Carrick who may not be the greatest in general defence his dynamic ability and good reading of play while play making and not sitting so deep means we don't need that limited DM. Jones playing the more dynamic role that we utilise our midfield means it's near on identical playing Evans or Rio or Vidic in the same role. (Or insert CB here)
Does he have the discipline and the ability to learn and play like Carrick?... I honestly don't think so. When the time comes that we don't have Carrick there and can no longer play Rooney at the top of the diamond with two midfielders in behind is the day he may get another shot at playing in central midfield and be useful.
But I just see his marauding being more useful on the wing where he doesn't have a full XY range of his zone to cover. That zone being one of the most important in a game of football.
I think he had a good game, in that he didn't really make any mistakes, but it was almost like he was being shoehorned into the team, which resulted in Rooney playing on the left where he was much less effective as he kept coming inside & leaving Evra isolated, so we lost our attacking threat on that side.
Considering how high up the pitch he was playing and if you wanted to shoehorn someone into the side to see how they would play, I would have preferred to see Pogba in there, which is more his natural position. Had that been the case, I don't think it would have stayed 0-0 for quite so long.
I like Jones, but I do feel he is massively overrated.
Considering how high up the pitch he was playing and if you wanted to shoehorn someone into the side to see how they would play, I would have preferred to see Pogba in there, which is more his natural position. Had that been the case, I don't think it would have stayed 0-0 for quite so long.
I like Jones, but I do feel he is massively overrated.
Neither have I, to be fair.
Capello would know, though. Maybe he's talking about when Baresi was playing for Milan's youth/reserve teams? (presumably at the same age that Jones is now)
Maybe. That would be though like saying Rio used to play in midfield when only the übernerds like us know it's actually true.
Or something like that, I'm not sure that actually made any sense.