Players fans don't rate but managers love them...

[Jeppers7]

Ofcourse there are only 2 categories, one is great tackler and other is can't tackle. It's all binary.

Ok he was a bang average tackler.

 

[Theafonis]

Willian

 

[KetilOwren88]

That’s a great question….one that many reds asked week in week out for years….listen this thread is what it is but McClair was never a player who won us the league….Robson, Keane, Scholes, Giggs, Beckham, Ince, kanchelskis, Sharpe, Bruce, Pallister, Schmeichel, Irwin, Hughes, Cole, Yorke, Rooney, Ronaldo, Vidic, Evra, Rio, VDS, RVN, RVP he was not.

Those players and more were leagues above him, there are other players like O’Shea for example who had hundreds of appearances for us but were bang average players also. When you look back at the history of United players and premier league players his place will be run of the mill, he won’t be revered like SAF will revere him because ability wise he was simply a run of the mill player. Bang average in comparison to the list above.

I see your point, but I have to disagree a bit. Yes, of course it’s fair enough to say John O’Shea was an average player compared to the names you mention, but it’s the combination between top players and good squad players that win you the league. It doesnt’t help to have the best players if you don’t have reliable squad players to do the job when called upon. Not every player has the ability to perform concistent in any game or any position like O’Shea could do. It’s actually quite rare to have players you can trust 100%, while knowing excactly what you‘ll get, and it shouldn’t be underrated. John O’Shea is just one of plenty examples during the time of Sir Alex.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Heskey
Why manager likes - does a lot of work for the team and his striking partner, physical presence in the pitch
Why fans don’t rate - play like a donkey, with no end products

Maguire
Why manager likes - strong in heading, tackling and positioning
Why fans don’t rate - slow, tend to hold the ball too long and slow down attack play, prone to defensive errors, doesn’t lead defence line

Mount
Why manager likes - good work rate, defensively reliable, willing to follow manager instructions, effective play style
Why fans don’t rate - lack of talent and not creative enough despite playing advance midfield role, not entertaining from naked eye probably

 

[United in sin]

Eh? The fans loved him.

United fans loved him, but not sure other fans rated him as they rated players like Giggs for instance

Park was heavily criticized by sections of of the fanbase for long periods. He won many over like Carrick and Fletcher did

Scott McTominay, simply unbelievable how Jose, Ole, Ralf and even Fergie all love him. Such an average player in my opinion. Decent energy, not Premier League level technically and even defensively, which everyone heralds him for, all I see is the least positionally aware midfielder in the top half and a very weak player in the challenge.

Ralf doesn't love McTominay or anyone in this team yet IMO. Minutes played over time and transfer windows will tell. I'd like to see if McTominay survives actual competition as his starting team berth has been given to him thus far without merit

Serge Aurier. What a Bang average player.

The thread is about unloved/unrated players who managers trust.
Aurier doesn't fit the profile. He's a talented but troubled player who's had issues at every club he's played for.

Pochettino, Mourinho and Santo all failed to get a tune out of him at Spurs and he ended up mutually terminating his contract with them. He's barely getting minutes at Villarreal under the same manager he played under at PSG (Unai Emery)

 

[United in sin]

Sammy Hyypia, Gareth Barry, Darren Anderton, Lassana Diarra, John Arne Riise, Nigel De Jong, David James, Fellaini, Kevin Nolan, Jonjo Shelvey

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

always thought Nicky Barmby was a shite

 

[tenpoless]

James Milner

 

[roonster09]

Alright but how does Carrick fall into this topic of being rated by multiple managers? That's just a question as I haven't been following his international career closely.

This topic is about rated by manager or managers. So he falls in the first category, GOAT rated him and always played him.

Also his West ham and Spurs manager rated him and they played him almost all the time.

 

[roonster09]

Ok he was a bang average tackler.

Ok, still wrong.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Not really no. I rate great footballers like Keane, Scholes, Modric, Pirlo, Zidane, Baggio etc

Carrick was nothing more than a good player on a good day. Hilarious when Carrick fans try to pigeonhole anyone who remembers Carrick entire career as a Neanderthal football lover. I don’t not think Carrick was great because I loved Scott Parker, I don’t think he was great….because he wasn’t. He was a good player in a great team and he wasn’t always that.

Carrick wasn't a "John O'Shea" or "Wes Brown". He didn't just fill a role while surrounded by great players. He was one of the first names on the team sheet made by the greatest manager ever. And SAF never tried to replace him or look for an upgrade. Do you know why? Because there wasn't one. If you didn't see just how great he was then I feel sorry for you. YOu listed your greats and Carrick was just as good as Pirlo. Problem was he is English and people don't understand that kind of greatness in an English player. Go ahead and deny that. All you are doing is proving my point...

Why was Michael Carrick so under-appreciated throughout his career? (thesefootballtimes.co)

 

[Jeppers7]

I see your point, but I have to disagree a bit. Yes, of course it’s fair enough to say John O’Shea was an average player compared to the names you mention, but it’s the combination between top players and good squad players that win you the league. It doesnt’t help to have the best players if you don’t have reliable squad players to do the job when called upon. Not every player has the ability to perform concistent in any game or any position like O’Shea could do. It’s actually quite rare to have players you can trust 100%, while knowing excactly what you‘ll get, and it shouldn’t be underrated. John O’Shea is just one of plenty examples during the time of Sir Alex.

Of course…Totally agree with this but still 11 John osheas doesn’t win you anything

 

[Jeppers7]

This topic is about rated by manager or managers. So he falls in the first category, GOAT rated him and always played him.

Also his West ham and Spurs manager rated him and they played him almost all the time.

Not true and SAF at that time also played O’Shea cm regularly and Darren Gibson for a time, and played Anderson and Cleverley one season until injuries broke up the pairing.

Maybe this is for another thread to be fair, I don’t know anyone who thinks Carrick was shite, but this weird thing has happened overtime where some fans are insistent that he was amongst the levels of Pirlo and Busquets when the reality is he was a good player in a great side and he had one season where he was excellent. More like Fletcher than the players he’s compared to by his ****.

 

[Bebestation]

For me, Players like John O'shea is no different to Mctominay.

I find it weird when people rate O'shea and others but then want to dump Mctominay.

The only difference is the managers ability to win the league which then makes players like O'shea be rated higher than they are.

Plenty of other "squad players" that are highly rated purely due to the manager winning a title with them, hardly anything to do with their actual performances.

 

[Jeppers7]

Carrick wasn't a "John O'Shea" or "Wes Brown". He didn't just fill a role while surrounded by great players. He was one of the first names on the team sheet made by the greatest manager ever. And SAF never tried to replace him or look for an upgrade. Do you know why? Because there wasn't one. If you didn't see just how great he was then I feel sorry for you. YOu listed your greats and Carrick was just as good as Pirlo. Problem was he is English and people don't understand that kind of greatness in an English player. Go ahead and deny that. All you are doing is proving my point...

Why was Michael Carrick so under-appreciated throughout his career? (thesefootballtimes.co)

Footballs all about opinions, as your opinion piece shows, and you’re welcome to yours. There aren’t many fans anywhere in world football or people within football that would share anything like yours.

 

[roonster09]

Not true and SAF at that time also played O’Shea cm regularly and Darren Gibson for a time, and played Anderson and Cleverley one season until injuries broke up the pairing.

Maybe this is for another thread to be fair, I don’t know anyone who thinks Carrick was shite, but this weird thing has happened overtime where some fans are insistent that he was amongst the levels of Pirlo and Busquets when the reality is he was a good player in a great side and he had one season where he was excellent. More like Fletcher than the players he’s compared to by his ****.

Maybe you should check what regularly means. These are the league games for Carrick under SAF, 33, 31, 28, 30, 28, 36, 29. We had players like Scholes, Fletcher, Hargreaves, Anderson but still Carrick played so many games in league.

The season he played 28 league games, he was out for couple of months.

Ofcourse he was never at the level of Pirlo but on the other side he is much better player than what you described.

 

[Jeppers7]

For me, Players like John O'shea is no different to Mctominay.

I find it weird when people rate O'shea and others but then want to dump Mctominay.

The only difference is the managers ability to win the league which then makes players like O'shea be rated higher than they are.

Plenty of other "squad players" that are highly rated purely due to the manager winning a title with them, hardly anything to do with their actual performances.

I totally agree, there’s a few players who have benefited from being part of our club at the right time. Once SAF retired the ones who were still here were exposed somewhat.

I think McT (I’m not a massive fan at all) is a better player than O’Shea who I didn’t rate at all. He could barely function at times and had no outstanding qualities.

 

[Jeppers7]

Maybe you should check what regularly means. These are the league games for Carrick under SAF, 33, 31, 28, 30, 28, 36, 29. We had players like Scholes, Fletcher, Hargreaves, Anderson but still Carrick played so many games in league.

The season he played 28 league games, he was out for couple of months.

Ofcourse he was never at the level of Pirlo but on the other side he is much better player than what you described.

Or perhaps you should check what ‘always’ means?

I’ve looked at those stats and that’s including games he was substitute in. His starts are as follows:-

29 24 24 22 23 27 27 34

9 14 14 16 15 11 11 4 league games he didn’t start and the vast majority not due to injury.

What stood out to me when I looked was the amount of big games he was dropped for. He was most often on the bench against the likes of Liverpool, City, Chelsea and Arsenal. Not meaningless games at the end of a season.

The 11/12 season we played Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, City at the start of season and Carrick was either on the bench or not involved at all in all of them.

12/13 was the anomaly really, I think SAF was looking to move away from Carrick in 11/12 (in favour of Cleverly and Anderson !) but to Carricks credit once he forced his way in to the team in November he finally began to deliver high quality consistent performances and was a key player in our last title win. Second only behind RVP for me that season he was superb.

Other than that season he was never superb but he didn’t need to be, we had the best back four, front three in world football and a world class keeper.

VDS
Evra
Vidic
Rio
Scholes
Giggs
Ronaldo
Rooney
Tevez

Allof those players were world class and it only left two positions on the pitch not occupied by a world class player most games. Looking back that was some team.

 

[B20]

Sammy Hyypia, Gareth Barry, Darren Anderton, Lassana Diarra, John Arne Riise, Nigel De Jong, David James, Fellaini, Kevin Nolan, Jonjo Shelvey

Hyppia is one of the most beloved centrebacks of any era for Liverpool fans. He was amazing.

 

[B20]

Yes.

In particular, I never understood the fans that rated Busquets but not Carrick. It was always strange, considering they were pretty much clones of each other.

Carrick wasn't a "John O'Shea" or "Wes Brown". He didn't just fill a role while surrounded by great players. He was one of the first names on the team sheet made by the greatest manager ever. And SAF never tried to replace him or look for an upgrade. Do you know why? Because there wasn't one. If you didn't see just how great he was then I feel sorry for you. YOu listed your greats and Carrick was just as good as Pirlo. Problem was he is English and people don't understand that kind of greatness in an English player. Go ahead and deny that. All you are doing is proving my point...

Why was Michael Carrick so under-appreciated throughout his career? (thesefootballtimes.co)

It's not limited to Scholes then. Any United player that wasn't considered among the very post will just get better and better with every year after retirement.

 

[roonster09]

Or perhaps you should check what ‘always’ means?

I’ve looked at those stats and that’s including games he was substitute in. His starts are as follows:-

29 24 24 22 23 27 27 34

9 14 14 16 15 11 11 4 league games he didn’t start and the vast majority not due to injury.

What stood out to me when I looked was the amount of big games he was dropped for. He was most often on the bench against the likes of Liverpool, City, Chelsea and Arsenal. Not meaningless games at the end of a season.

The 11/12 season we played Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, City at the start of season and Carrick was either on the bench or not involved at all in all of them.

12/13 was the anomaly really, I think SAF was looking to move away from Carrick in 11/12 (in favour of Cleverly and Anderson !) but to Carricks credit once he forced his way in to the team in November he finally began to deliver high quality consistent performances and was a key player in our last title win. Second only behind RVP for me that season he was superb.

Other than that season he was never superb but he didn’t need to be, we had the best back four, front three in world football and a world class keeper.

VDS
Evra
Vidic
Rio
Scholes
Giggs
Ronaldo
Rooney
Tevez

Allof those players were world class and it only left two positions on the pitch not occupied by a world class player most games. Looking back that was some team.

Going by the mins played in the league, he played more mins than any other CM in 4 out of 7 seasons, in other 3 seasons he was the 2nd highest. That shows how regularly he played. Of course he won't start all league games considering we had awesome squad back then with players like Scholes, Carrick, Anderson, Hargreaves, Fletcher for midfield options and we played with 2 CMs.

2006-07 - 6th (2nd Most by a CM after Scholes)
2007-08 - 9th (More than Scholes, Rooney, Hargreaves.) Most by a CM
2008-09 - 10th Most by a CM
2009-10 - 5th (2nd most by a CM after Fletcher)
2010-11 - 8th (2nd most by a CM after Fletcher)
2011-12 - 5th - Most by a CM
2012-13 - 3rd - Most by a CM

Also transfermarkt doesn't capture all the injuries, as per them Carrick was never injured before 2008-09 season, here is the link from 2007-08 season that says he missed 6 weeks because of injury.
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-soccer-england-carrick-fapl-idUKSP5709220071004

 

[roonster09]

It's not limited to Scholes then. Any United player that wasn't considered among the very post will just get better and better with every year after retirement.

At least better than players like Lucas becoming world class and best DM in the world when he was injured.

 

[hasanejaz88]

Darren Fletcher was in this category for his first couple of seasons, before the 08/09 season when he really grew into a great central midfielder.

SAF always trusted him and played him regularly in the previous seasons, fitness permitting, but he was roundly hated by fans, and in the case of Roy Keane, even his fellow players.

 

[Jackal981]

Or perhaps you should check what ‘always’ means?

I’ve looked at those stats and that’s including games he was substitute in. His starts are as follows:-

29 24 24 22 23 27 27 34

9 14 14 16 15 11 11 4 league games he didn’t start and the vast majority not due to injury.

What stood out to me when I looked was the amount of big games he was dropped for. He was most often on the bench against the likes of Liverpool, City, Chelsea and Arsenal. Not meaningless games at the end of a season.

The 11/12 season we played Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, City at the start of season and Carrick was either on the bench or not involved at all in all of them.

12/13 was the anomaly really, I think SAF was looking to move away from Carrick in 11/12 (in favour of Cleverly and Anderson !) but to Carricks credit once he forced his way in to the team in November he finally began to deliver high quality consistent performances and was a key player in our last title win. Second only behind RVP for me that season he was superb.

Other than that season he was never superb but he didn’t need to be, we had the best back four, front three in world football and a world class keeper.

VDS
Evra
Vidic
Rio
Scholes
Giggs
Ronaldo
Rooney
Tevez

Allof those players were world class and it only left two positions on the pitch not occupied by a world class player most games. Looking back that was some team.

Long time lurker here. Carrick was bashed weekly all the time. Many thought he was the weak link of our midfield and the reason we lost midfield battle against top teams. Imo he is a good player but become a bit overrated after his retirement. Another thing was our play style did not really suit him at that time. People would always complain he was inferior to keane and scholes

 

[Jeppers7]

Going by the mins played in the league, he played more mins than any other CM in 4 out of 7 seasons, in other 3 seasons he was the 2nd highest. That shows how regularly he played. Of course he won't start all league games considering we had awesome squad back then with players like Scholes, Carrick, Anderson, Hargreaves, Fletcher for midfield options and we played with 2 CMs.

2006-07 - 6th (2nd Most by a CM after Scholes)
2007-08 - 9th (More than Scholes, Rooney, Hargreaves.) Most by a CM
2008-09 - 10th Most by a CM
2009-10 - 5th (2nd most by a CM after Fletcher)
2010-11 - 8th (2nd most by a CM after Fletcher)
2011-12 - 5th - Most by a CM
2012-13 - 3rd - Most by a CM

Also transfermarkt doesn't capture all the injuries, as per them Carrick was never injured before 2008-09 season, here is the link from 2007-08 season that says he missed 6 weeks because of injury.
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-soccer-england-carrick-fapl-idUKSP5709220071004

Anderson never cemented a place in the team, that wasn’t down to Carrick, it was down to his lack of professionalism. Including Hargreaves in that list is ridiculous because after his first season for us he appeared in 2,1,1 league games respectively the next three seasons due to chronic injuries. Fletcher only really established himself in 08/09 and he himself was never a great player, like Carrick he was a good player, who SAF loved, who had one outstanding season.

Then you’ve got Scholes who was 32 when we signed Carrick and coming off a serious eye injury.

So moving the goalposts to minutes played doesn’t really tell anything because there could be multiple different reasons why a player ends up with more minutes than another. Like if you’re 3-0 up you might bring off your best players to rest them. Similarly when you play your biggest rivals you play your best players when you pick your starting 11.
You don’t ‘rest’ Rio, Vidic, Evra, Scholes, Rooney or Ronaldo in the biggest games of the season.

 

[Jeppers7]

Long time lurker here. Carrick was bashed weekly all the time. Many thought he was the weak link of our midfield and the reason we lost midfield battle against top teams. Imo he is a good player but become a bit overrated after his retirement. Another thing was our play style did not really suit him at that time. People would always complain he was inferior to keane and scholes

Agree with all of this, his legacy has definitely profited due to the teams he played in. If he were ten years younger and signed for us in 2016, playing exactly how he did in his time for us…..He would not be so fondly remembered.

It must have been difficult to come into a side after Keane, and with Scholes, there’s no shame in being many levels below those two players….but he was.

 

[Jeppers7]

It's not limited to Scholes then. Any United player that wasn't considered among the very post will just get better and better with every year after retirement.

Don’t embarrass yourself, I’m guessing you think Stevie G was no more than a very good player?

 

[roonster09]

Anderson never cemented a place in the team, that wasn’t down to Carrick, it was down to his lack of professionalism. Including Hargreaves in that list is ridiculous because after his first season for us he appeared in 2,1,1 league games respectively the next three seasons due to chronic injuries. Fletcher only really established himself in 08/09 and he himself was never a great player, like Carrick he was a good player, who SAF loved, who had one outstanding season.

Then you’ve got Scholes who was 32 when we signed Carrick and coming off a serious eye injury.

So moving the goalposts to minutes played doesn’t really tell anything because there could be multiple different reasons why a player ends up with more minutes than another. Like if you’re 3-0 up you might bring off your best players to rest them. Similarly when you play your biggest rivals you play your best players when you pick your starting 11.
You don’t ‘rest’ Rio, Vidic, Evra, Scholes, Rooney or Ronaldo in the biggest games of the season.

Biggest games of the season are the latter stages of CL, Carrick started almost all the games. Only games he didn't was when the KO tie was won in the first leg.

So what you are saying is Carrick held the midfield by himself, he had to play alongside player with eye injury, player who wasn't professional, a player who was never great player. So it was Carrick alone. Even going by starts, Carrick was first or second in starts for CM. Also going by transfermarkt link to conclude "He was dropped from other games" is just silly, I have already showed you how poor transfermarkt is when it comes to tracking the injuries. They don't capture all the injuries.

Well done, no one argued Carrick was better than Rio, Vidic, Evra, Scholes, Rooney, Ronaldo. That's a great point against a non-existent argument.

 

[roonster09]

Long time lurker here. Carrick was bashed weekly all the time. Many thought he was the weak link of our midfield and the reason we lost midfield battle against top teams. Imo he is a good player but become a bit overrated after his retirement. Another thing was our play style did not really suit him at that time. People would always complain he was inferior to keane and scholes

Yeah, that's why Carrick fits this thread perfectly. Fans didn't rate the player but managers did.

It would have been hilarious if people didn't say he was inferior to Keane and Scholes. Every CM in PL was inferior to Keane and Scholes.

 

[roonster09]

Agree with all of this, his legacy has definitely profited due to the teams he played in. If he were ten years younger and signed for us in 2016, playing exactly how he did in his time for us…..He would not be so fondly remembered.

It must have been difficult to come into a side after Keane, and with Scholes, there’s no shame in being many levels below those two players….but he was.

If he was 10 years younger, we wouldn't have signed him. We would have signed players like Fellaini, Fred, McTominay while managers like Klopp, Tuchel, Pep would have picked Carrick.

 

[roonster09]

In 7 seasons under SAF, all competitions for outfield players.

2006-07 - 4th most mins
2007-08 - 6th most mins
2008-09 - 9th most mins
2009-10 - 5th most mins
2010-11 - 4th most mins
2011-12 - 3rd most mins
2012-13 - 2nd most mins

In CL
2006-07 - 2nd most mins
2007-08 - 3rd most mins
2008-09 - 7th most mins - Missed half of group stage matches with Injury. Played in all KO games
2009-10 - 9th most mins
2010-11 - 1st most mins
2011-12 - 8th most mins
2012-13 - 4th most mins

But yeah, he was not important player.

 

[Jeppers7]

Biggest games of the season are the latter stages of CL, Carrick started almost all the games. Only games he didn't was when the KO tie was won in the first leg.

So what you are saying is Carrick held the midfield by himself, he had to play alongside player with eye injury, player who wasn't professional, a player who was never great player. So it was Carrick alone. Even going by starts, Carrick was first or second in starts for CM. Also going by transfermarkt link to conclude "He was dropped from other games" is just silly, I have already showed you how poor transfermarkt is when it comes to tracking the injuries. They don't capture all the injuries.

Well done, no one argued Carrick was better than Rio, Vidic, Evra, Scholes, Rooney, Ronaldo. That's a great point against a non-existent argument.

I’m not arguing anything here, I’m making the point that a team with those players in will ultimately be very successful. It is unusual for a player so highly rated as Carrick by some to be one of the worst players in any team. But I never said anyone claimed that he was better than those players. So great point against a non-existent argument.

Yes you’re right, games against Chelsea in the league when you’re battling for the title with them, or City as they were emerging…..Liverpool away etc are not our biggest games of the season.

You’re right to allude to the CL because Carrick was definitely a starter here. Perhaps the way he played was more suited to CL so credit for that, doesn’t mean he was great though.

Why you feel the need to constantly move goalposts and twist someone else posts is weird. You do it in every thread.

My opinion is that Carrick had a team around him that covered for the only two areas of the pitch that didn’t have a world class option (RB, Carrick) every other position was occupied by a world class player. The reason Scholes played less minutes could be down to any number of reasons like age etc but he was still levels above Carrick at 32/33/34/35 years of age. It was the team around Carrick that compensated for the lack of world class ability he possessed. He was able to be a cog in a phenomenal machine but as I said, he was often dropped to the bench against our biggest rivals, despite featuring in the games before and after

 

[Jeppers7]

In 7 seasons under SAF, all competitions for outfield players.

2006-07 - 4th most mins
2007-08 - 6th most mins
2008-09 - 9th most mins
2009-10 - 5th most mins
2010-11 - 4th most mins
2011-12 - 3rd most mins
2012-13 - 2nd most mins

In CL
2006-07 - 2nd most mins
2007-08 - 3rd most mins
2008-09 - 7th most mins - Missed half of group stage matches with Injury. Played in all KO games
2009-10 - 9th most mins
2010-11 - 1st most mins
2011-12 - 8th most mins
2012-13 - 4th most mins

But yeah, he was not important player.

Great point against a non-existing argument here.

Who said he wasn’t important? He wasn’t great is the point. Doesn’t alter the games he was dropped to the bench for were often Chelsea, City, Liverpool, Arsenal. He was important in part because of the list of players you mentioned earlier being old, injured, unprofessional and developing.

Racking up a list where he was the 9th, 8th, 7th, 6th most used player again tells nothing.

I’ve made my point and looked at yours and countered it…..moving goalposts is probably boring everybody else within this thread so I’ll leave it there.

 

[roonster09]

Great point against a non-existing argument here.

Who said he wasn’t important? He wasn’t great is the point. Doesn’t alter the games he was dropped to the bench for were often Chelsea, City, Liverpool, Arsenal. He was important in part because of the list of players you mentioned earlier being old, injured, unprofessional and developing.

Racking up a list where he was the 9th, 8th, 7th, 6th most used player again tells nothing.

I’ve made my point and looked at yours and countered it…..moving goalposts is probably boring everybody else within this thread so I’ll leave it there.

Not sure where the goalposts are moved, one would think played all the time would include mins played as some sort of proof but yeah whatever. "Can't tackle" for the player who averaged 2.5 tackles per game.

 

[roonster09]

I’m not arguing anything here, I’m making the point that a team with those players in will ultimately be very successful. It is unusual for a player so highly rated as Carrick by some to be one of the worst players in any team. But I never said anyone claimed that he was better than those players. So great point against a non-existent argument.

Yes you’re right, games against Chelsea in the league when you’re battling for the title with them, or City as they were emerging…..Liverpool away etc are not our biggest games of the season.

You’re right to allude to the CL because Carrick was definitely a starter here. Perhaps the way he played was more suited to CL so credit for that, doesn’t mean he was great though.

Why you feel the need to constantly move goalposts and twist someone else posts is weird. You do it in every thread.

My opinion is that Carrick had a team around him that covered for the only two areas of the pitch that didn’t have a world class option (RB, Carrick) every other position was occupied by a world class player. The reason Scholes played less minutes could be down to any number of reasons like age etc but he was still levels above Carrick at 32/33/34/35 years of age. It was the team around Carrick that compensated for the lack of world class ability he possessed. He was able to be a cog in a phenomenal machine but as I said, he was often dropped to the bench against our biggest rivals, despite featuring in the games before and after

You are not arguing anything here? Then wonder what you are doing bringing Ronaldo, Rooney, Rio, Vidic in this thread.

I didn't twist anything, and yeah I moved the goal posts and came up with posts like "O'Shea, Gibson" played in CM regularly during Carrick's time at ManUtd.

Also he wasn't dropped more often than not, he played in most big games even in league. Only in 2011-12 he didn't play many games, he was dropped and in first 10 games we played big teams, he didn't play in any of them. Once he was back in the team, he played all big games.

2006-07
Arsenal - 1 start - 1 sub
Chelsea - 1 start and 1 sub (sub in deadruber where we played eagles and co)
Liverpool - 2/2 starts

2007-08
Chelsea - 2/2 starts
Arsenal - 1 start, 1 sub (sub was when he was coming back from injury)
Liverpool - 1 start, 1 sub

2008-09
Chelsea - 1 sub and other game he was injured
Arsenal - 2/2 starts
Liverpool - 2/2 starts

2009-10
Chelsea - 1 start and 1 unused sub
Arsenal - 2/2 starts
Liverpool - 2/2 starts

2010-11
Chelsea - 2/2 starts
Liverpool - 1 start and other game he was injured
Arsenal - 2/2 starts
City - 1 start and 1 sub

2011-12
Chelsea - 1 start and 1 sub
Arsenal - 1 start and 1 not in squad
Liverpool - 1 start and 1 unused sub
City - 1 start and 1 unused sub

2012-13
Chelsea - 1 start and 1 not in squad (when the league was already won)
Arsenal - 2/2 starts
Liverpool - 2/2 starts
City - 2/2 starts

He played in almost all the big games in PL and in CL. In all competitions he was among the top 5 players in mins played. Can't wait for the new twists and goal posts moving, like you always do in any thread. (easy to play the game).

 

[GueRed]

For United:

Carrick (it took fecking years for him to get respect. Some to this day still find time to shit on him...)
McClair
Fletcher
Young
O'Shea
Cole (ridiculed. fans were split till 98/99)
Phil Neville
Gary Neville
McTominay
Maguire
Valencia

 

[Jeppers7]

You are not arguing anything here? Then wonder what you are doing bringing Ronaldo, Rooney, Rio, Vidic in this thread.

I didn't twist anything, and yeah I moved the goal posts and came up with posts like "O'Shea, Gibson" played in CM regularly during Carrick's time at ManUtd.

Also he wasn't dropped more often than not, he played in most big games even in league. Only in 2011-12 he didn't play many games, he was dropped and in first 10 games we played big teams, he didn't play in any of them. Once he was back in the team, he played all big games.

2006-07
Arsenal - 1 start - 1 sub
Chelsea - 1 start and 1 sub (sub in deadruber where we played eagles and co)
Liverpool - 2/2 starts

2007-08
Chelsea - 2/2 starts
Arsenal - 1 start, 1 sub (sub was when he was coming back from injury)
Liverpool - 1 start, 1 sub

2008-09
Chelsea - 1 sub and other game he was injured
Arsenal - 2/2 starts
Liverpool - 2/2 starts

2009-10
Chelsea - 1 start and 1 unused sub
Arsenal - 2/2 starts
Liverpool - 2/2 starts

2010-11
Chelsea - 2/2 starts
Liverpool - 1 start and other game he was injured
Arsenal - 2/2 starts
City - 1 start and 1 sub

2011-12
Chelsea - 1 start and 1 sub
Arsenal - 1 start and 1 not in squad
Liverpool - 1 start and 1 unused sub
City - 1 start and 1 unused sub

2012-13
Chelsea - 1 start and 1 not in squad (when the league was already won)
Arsenal - 2/2 starts
Liverpool - 2/2 starts
City - 2/2 starts

He played in almost all the big games in PL and in CL. In all competitions he was among the top 5 players in mins played. Can't wait for the new twists and goal posts moving, like you always do in any thread. (easy to play the game).

Ok last post, but let me explain. I said what stood out to me when I looked at when he was sub was how frequently the likes of City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and even Spurs came up.

These are games where typically you don’t rest players, yet he was so many times on the bench.


06/07 Arsenal home, Chelsea away

07/08 Arsenal away, Liverpool away, Spurs away, City home

08/09 Chelsea home, City home

09/10 Spurs away, City home, Chelsea home, city away

10/11 City home

11/12 Spurs away, Arsenal home, Liverpool away, City home

12/13 played in all big games.

That’s 17 times he was sub in games against our rivals, whilst he wasn’t regularly sub against smaller teams.

That was what stood out to me, because we had so few options most of the times I was surprised he was left out of so many of the big games.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[Trequarista10]

Not really, no. Managers are not infallible. They often fall on their sword for persisting with players the fans know are bums.

Ah, the classic fans know better argument.

 

[Jeppers7]

Ah, the classic fans know better argument.

The classic….the manager is always right post. Do you never disagree with anything a manager does?

 

[roonster09]

Ok last post, but let me explain. I said what stood out to me when I looked at when he was sub was how frequently the likes of City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and even Spurs came up.

These are games where typically you don’t rest players, yet he was so many times on the bench.


06/07 Arsenal home, Chelsea away

07/08 Arsenal away, Liverpool away, Spurs away, City home

08/09 Chelsea home, City home

09/10 Spurs away, City home, Chelsea home, city away

10/11 City home

11/12 Spurs away, Arsenal home, Liverpool away, City home

12/13 played in all big games.

That’s 17 times he was sub in games against our rivals, whilst he wasn’t regularly sub against smaller teams.

That was what stood out to me, because we had so few options most of the times I was surprised he was left out of so many of the big games.

Hope that makes sense.

Spurs wasn't a big game and City wasn't too till 2010.

Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool were top 4 teams to 2010.