I feel like Muller is appreciatedAKA quality players the average fan is too unknowledgeable to appreciate.
But yeah, Muller
What? Point me to even one fan who saw McGrath playing and didn't rate him.Paul McGrath. How he managed to play most times ( and star) amazed everyone.
Couldn't tie his boot laces most days but was still able to mark the very best out of games.
Yeah right. What do managers know?Not really, no. Managers are not infallible. They often fall on their sword for persisting with players the fans know are bums.
I never said they did if you read my post right. I said he amazed everyone, and YES, he would not be picked by managers now, if he turned up in that state.What? Point me to even one fan who saw McGrath playing and didn't rate him.
This thread is about players that aren't/weren't rated but the fans but are/were by the managers. If anything, McGrath is an example of the complete opposite (even though I'm pretty sure that all of his managers had appreciated him but Fergie felt that he needed to eradicate the drinking culture from the club).I never said they did if you read my post right. I said he amazed everyone, and YES, he would not be picked by managers now, if he turned up in that state.
I never got Tiago either, until his second or third season at Atleti and either I suddenly noticed or it came out more, but man he was so much better than almost anyone else. I think he did start to play more accurately, though, and everything was so full of confidence or zen. But when had his best season start yet when he was 35 or something, but then he got a big injuryUnfortunately.
It's taking it back a bit, but Mourinho gave a ton of minutes to Tiago Mendes in his first title-winning season at Chelsea.
Agree with this. Those two seasons either side of his bad injury were immense. Then he got the 7 shirt in 12/13 and bombed for some reason. 2nd half of 15/16 onwards was solid for him. It took a bit of time to win fans over as a right back, but I suspect most would take that period of Valencia back over our current options.Probably in his middle years. 2012 to 2015. Was brilliant before and rediscovered as a RB and captain after.
Frenkie de Jong could turn into this. While he is in bad form for a while now, suddenly people call him overrated and a pass-sideways-and-backwards player all the time, like they forget or can't see all the things he can do and still does. Get him into shape and be less afraid of taking out high-in-the-hierarchy players like Pique and Busquets and you'll have a midfield winner right there.Keep seeing Jordan Henderson pop-up....who still doesn't rate Jordan Henderson?
I genuinely think he has been one of the best midfielders in Europe over the last decade.
Looking at the players mentioned in general, I suppose you could re-title this thread, "players who don't score/assist but still perform vital functions so are rightly highly-regarded by actual football managers". Not that snappy, I know.
That’s not what I said. Of all the possibilities and things you could be online, please tell me you didn’t choose dumb as the one to cosplay as?Yeah right. What do managers know?
That's your wittiest comeback?That’s not what I said. Of all the possibilities and things you could be online, please tell me you didn’t choose dumb as the one to cosplay as?
Right, so you really chose that. Brazy. Enjoy your escapism.That's your wittiest comeback?
Bit of a Gattuso type, just all energy. Though he does score and pass better than GG, at least in my memory.Scott McTominay, simply unbelievable how Jose, Ole, Ralf and even Fergie all love him. Such an average player in my opinion. Decent energy, not Premier League level technically and even defensively, which everyone heralds him for, all I see is the least positionally aware midfielder in the top half and a very weak player in the challenge.
Great shout. Him and Scholes who is an all time great imho.Michael Carrick
The engine behind Madrid and Germany. Won all trophies that could be won by a player. His cabinet is perfectSami Kedhira
It was amazing how much he played for Real Madrid and Juventus Turin, when fit/not injured.
In my opinion a great/all-time career derailed by injuries and a body not sustainable for the game Kedira played.
Carrick didn't tackle was a myth though, his tackling stats are superb. I agree with your post, he wasn't appreciated enough.I remember getting in arguments about Carrick. So many people around here didn't rate him because "he didn't score goals like Frank and Stevie" so when I explained that he's not meant to score goals because he's a DM/holding midfielder they said "he doesn't make a lot of tackles like Scott Parker". They just didn't understand how great he really was. Of course most of those same people will never admit that now. Carrick took the #16 so they expected him to be Keane when he was really more like Pirlo or Alonso. But English don't understand. They want all action out of their English midfielders. If Carrick was Spanish they would have liked him more...
Nah that’s not true, he wasn’t in the class of Pirlo not even close. I loved Rio more than Vidic so it’s not English mentality. It’s that other than one season, he ranged from periods of poor performances to good but rarely great. He couldn’t tackle or head a ball and if you ran at him he could be bypassed. He was often missing in the biggest games. Where Carrick comes out well is playing for a very successful team. He was a good player but he was t great.I remember getting in arguments about Carrick. So many people around here didn't rate him because "he didn't score goals like Frank and Stevie" so when I explained that he's not meant to score goals because he's a DM/holding midfielder they said "he doesn't make a lot of tackles like Scott Parker". They just didn't understand how great he really was. Of course most of those same people will never admit that now. Carrick took the #16 so they expected him to be Keane when he was really more like Pirlo or Alonso. But English don't understand. They want all action out of their English midfielders. If Carrick was Spanish they would have liked him more...
And very overrated in all other years.Carrick didn't tackle was a myth though, his tackling stats are superb. I agree with your post, he wasn't appreciated enough.
I remember arguing Song Vs carrick in other forum and then there was this dumb ManUtd talk forum where few idiots used to argue how much better and skillful Fellaini is compared to Carrick.
Carrick was very much underrated player during his peak years.
I don't agree with that.And very overrated in all other years.
Was Carrick a regular for England under different managers?
One more myth that he can't tackle.Nah that’s not true, he wasn’t in the class of Pirlo not even close. I loved Rio more than Vidic so it’s not English mentality. It’s that other than one season, he ranged from periods of poor performances to good but rarely great. He couldn’t tackle or head a ball and if you ran at him he could be bypassed. He was often missing in the biggest games. Where Carrick comes out well is playing for a very successful team. He was a good player but he was t great.
Yes you’re right….he was a great tackler. Everybody would say it was his strengthOne more myth that he can't tackle.
Ofcourse there are only 2 categories, one is great tackler and other is can't tackle. It's all binary.Yes you’re right….he was a great tackler. Everybody would say it was his strength
Yes.Michael Carrick
In my opinion the majority of players who played under SAF should not be rated based on national caps.I don't agree with that.
I don't rate players based on their national caps.
Stones has recovered his reputation with fans quite a lot in the last few years hasn't he?Stones for England
This is exactly what I'm talking about. Let me guess...you rated Scott Parker didn't you?Nah that’s not true, he wasn’t in the class of Pirlo not even close. I loved Rio more than Vidic so it’s not English mentality. It’s that other than one season, he ranged from periods of poor performances to good but rarely great. He couldn’t tackle or head a ball and if you ran at him he could be bypassed. He was often missing in the biggest games. Where Carrick comes out well is playing for a very successful team. He was a good player but he was t great.
Carrick was fantastic from the minute he laced up his boots to the day he retired. While England supporters were arguing about how to get Gerrard and Lampard into their 4-4-2, if they had any brains and knew anything about football, it shouldn't have been Lampard AND Gerrard. It should have been Lampard or Gerrard and which one would play #10 with Carrick and Scholes in the midfield of a 4-2-3-1. Put it this way....the greatest manager ever started Carrick in every big match (and most small matches too) and never once thought about replacing him. He was our midfield maestro that was never truly appreciated as much as he should be because he didn't run around like a headless chicken like Scott Parker. For most English folk, a DM means you must be "tough as nails" and make "bone crunching tackles". And because Carrick didn't play like Scott Parker or score like Lampard, most United and England supporters never really appreciated him. Many here will say they always loved Carrick but I can guarantee you that if we looked back at old threads we would see a bunch of those same people putting him down...Carrick didn't tackle was a myth though, his tackling stats are superb. I agree with your post, he wasn't appreciated enough.
I remember arguing Song Vs carrick in other forum and then there was this dumb ManUtd talk forum where few idiots used to argue how much better and skillful Fellaini is compared to Carrick.
Carrick was very much underrated player during his peak years.
Not really no. I rate great footballers like Keane, Scholes, Modric, Pirlo, Zidane, Baggio etcThis is exactly what I'm talking about. Let me guess...you rated Scott Parker didn't you?
He's starting to get the rep he deserves these days after Flick took over and he amped up his assist numbers even further. However as a completely unbiased Müller fanboy I have to say that he doesn't get the legends worship he deserves. He's one of the greatest german players of all time, but because he's such a big meme his recognition seems to fall a little short still.I feel like Muller is appreciated
I rate him highly only because S. Aurier looks like Saurier, the german (short form) word for dinosaur.Serge Aurier. What a Bang average player.
Alright but how does Carrick fall into this topic of being rated by multiple managers? That's just a question as I haven't been following his international career closely.I don't agree with that.
I don't rate players based on their national caps.
Busquets was another level to Carrick. Or two. Carrick was a fine player with his limitations, Busquets has been consistently top top level player.Yes.
In particular, I never understood the fans that rated Busquets but not Carrick. It was always strange, considering they were pretty much clones of each other.