Unfortunately we will probably never see Pogba play for us again, so it's all a dream scenario really.
Pogba and Fernandes
- Thread starter IrishRedDevil
- Start date
You're just being intentionally vague. What actual aspect of Pogba's play is so damaging that we'd actually be worse off having him in the team? Because I find it hard to see how he isn't getting in ahead of Fred/Matic.
Proved where? What previous actions?
There's a massive difference between making noise through your agent and actually disrupting the dressing room yourself and turning teammates against the manager. It's pure conjecture, let's be honest. Burning bridges like that doesn't even make sense from his point of view. Just makes it more likely for him to be frozen out and thus miss out on the Euros.
What else does 'completely showing Pogba up as a player' entail?
I think Rashford / Pogba / Bruno is far superior to the players you mentioned. In addition, all three have shown great qualities coming in from the left. In fact, Bruno was at his most effective from that area yesterday.
Were we to sign Sancho in the summer, I’d be more than happy with:
Martial
Rashford - Bruno - Sancho
This is much more balanced. But my suggestion before was regarding the best starting line up and shoe-horning Pogba and Bruno into the same XI.
Pogba has been here for almost 4 years, been largely disappointing for a variety of reasons. I don't think it's 'out there' to question his motivation and application and it's clear he wants out and has disrespected the club (if you think Raiola acts without his input then I don't know what to say).
So I have no idea why people think things will magically click and are still desperately trying to accommodate him, when he doesn't deserve it.
It seems people are more defensive of and invested in Pogba, rather than the club.
In 2-3 years time he'll be a footnote in our history and very few people will remember him fondly.
So I have no idea why people think things will magically click and are still desperately trying to accommodate him, when he doesn't deserve it.
It seems people are more defensive of and invested in Pogba, rather than the club.
In 2-3 years time he'll be a footnote in our history and very few people will remember him fondly.
The clue is in the bolded part.
Pogba has continuously disrespected the club through his agent, Raiola, who is nothing more than a mouthpiece in this little game, so he's more than earned the stick we're is giving him right now. His next appearance for United will be met with a chorus of boos, assuming he recovers from the mysterious injury that has plagued him for months now before the season comes to a close.
Why should we give him a break? He's no longer a United player for all intents and purposes, thus, fair game.
The fascinating thing is Pogba's contract situation. Going to be 27 soon and that is normally a magical number for players and agents.
He is an ambitious player who has essentially sacrificed his rep and club success by coming to United during this point in our clubs history. It is natural that he would consider leaving rather than die on this hill. By staying he has committed himself to the club with a small chance of helping to bring glory back - but also equally having a club career similar to Shearer which is light on material success.
Its an interesting situation though. Only 1 year left on his contract so if the club want to extract value it is now otherwise he goes on a free in 2021.
I think that was what Mina was angling for, which he is now apologizing. He would like the club to give a decent valuation on Pogba because right now nobody is willing to part with GBP150m. He is hoping that it would be closer to 90-100m. Because if Pogba doesn't renew his contract then United risk getting nothing.
Its an interesting situation for the player and the club. Neither have a lot of leverage and really it comes down to the finances of the club and also the passion of the player. I could totally understand why a player of Pogba's profile would want to play at Real or Barca or Bayern however he might have to rethink his dreams and scrap all of that. Does he want the remote chance of glory by sticking with the club and becoming a club legend? Or playing somewhere a bit more galatico and guaranteed CL footy and titles, and experiencing life in different cities and cultures? Tough choice.
He is an ambitious player who has essentially sacrificed his rep and club success by coming to United during this point in our clubs history. It is natural that he would consider leaving rather than die on this hill. By staying he has committed himself to the club with a small chance of helping to bring glory back - but also equally having a club career similar to Shearer which is light on material success.
Its an interesting situation though. Only 1 year left on his contract so if the club want to extract value it is now otherwise he goes on a free in 2021.
I think that was what Mina was angling for, which he is now apologizing. He would like the club to give a decent valuation on Pogba because right now nobody is willing to part with GBP150m. He is hoping that it would be closer to 90-100m. Because if Pogba doesn't renew his contract then United risk getting nothing.
Its an interesting situation for the player and the club. Neither have a lot of leverage and really it comes down to the finances of the club and also the passion of the player. I could totally understand why a player of Pogba's profile would want to play at Real or Barca or Bayern however he might have to rethink his dreams and scrap all of that. Does he want the remote chance of glory by sticking with the club and becoming a club legend? Or playing somewhere a bit more galatico and guaranteed CL footy and titles, and experiencing life in different cities and cultures? Tough choice.
It amazes me that even at this stage some people want the club to try and accommodate Pogba.
If he wants to get fit for the Euros let him train with u23s.
What will the crowd reaction be if he decides to rock up for the last few games and we play him? I just cant see him playing again in a United shirt.
It will feel like a cloud lifted once he and his agent have done one ( taking JLingz with them)
If he wants to get fit for the Euros let him train with u23s.
What will the crowd reaction be if he decides to rock up for the last few games and we play him? I just cant see him playing again in a United shirt.
It will feel like a cloud lifted once he and his agent have done one ( taking JLingz with them)
I completely agree. People who think Raiola is acting without the blessings of Pogba are deluded.
Watch how he regains fitness if we are in the final stages of Europa and have a chance to finish top 4 and will want to walk straight into the team and then look completely disinterested if we lose.
He is a selfish player who deserves the treatment coming to him from the fans. He has disrespected the club and the manager.
A manager who wanted to build a team around him and spend majority of the pre season planning this.
United have the option to extend by a year, so there's no chance of Pogba leaving for free in 2021.
He will be sold this summer, albeit for less than we probably would want.
ao much wrong with that 2nd para, alone
Doesn't play like he is ambitious
Sacrificed his rep through his lack of commitment and endorsing his agent and brothers frequent proclamations.
How about a bit of commitment as an alternative to dying on a fecking hill?
By staying he has committed to the contract he signed but no more than the club have committed to paying him to take a season long break, whilst globetrotting at will for his own amusement instead of taking an interest in the teams welfare and joining in with a bit of gym work with his team mates at Carrington?
Commitment is the last thing he has shown. No wonder 90% of the support will be glad to see the back of him.
Didn't realise about the 1 year extension. Interesting to see how this is negotatiated because it seems neither Juve or Real are coming in with juicy offers.
Perhaps our board will insist on a 1 year extension, Pogba play the 20/21 season and both parties have a gentlemen's agreement to sell at the end of that Summer for reasonable price if Pogba doesn't want to sign a new contract at that point.
How you inferred that I think he should be played while injured is a complete mystery. Try again.
Nothing wrong with the 2nd para but its understandable why United fans would feel the way they do. Pogba wants to be a globetrotter. He wants to win cups. He wants glory. He got that with Juve, he got that with France. His plan was play at Juve win trophies. Move back to United with Mourinho at the helm and win some trophies. Move to Real win trophies and become a true galactico.
It hasn't worked out for him. The wheels came off at United. Mou go sacked. Rookie manager in. No glory. And the big clubs are only fairly keen on him but not for the figures the club wants.
His plan is stuttering but he still has his desires. And the only person who can change that is Pogba.
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I dont know if you do tbh. Drop Pogba into midfield is the most obvious solution but he isn't a very good midfielder if were being entirely honest - he needs too much protection from elsewhere. Maybe you hope it clicks for him and he becomes less casual, more focused and a bit more switched on defensively but we've been waiting 4 years for that and i dont think anyone believes its ever going to happen. Maybe switch to a 3-5-2 against stronger teams to protect him. You could use him as a #10 and push Fernandes wide, but i dont see why you wouldn't just sell pogba and get a winger, rather than continue squeezing square pegs into round holes. You could rotate between a right winger, Pogba and Fernandes playing 2 of 3. That would probably be the ideal solution if you thought pogba could live with being dropped at times.
If he was fit tomorrow I'm not sure he'd be in my first team and his wages are too damn high to keep him as cover. Selling him and reinvesting elsewhere is the sensible move at this point imo. Its hard to see him being really committed and focused on doing well for us at this stage and we have other good options who are which makes them better than him despite his talent.
If he was fit tomorrow I'm not sure he'd be in my first team and his wages are too damn high to keep him as cover. Selling him and reinvesting elsewhere is the sensible move at this point imo. Its hard to see him being really committed and focused on doing well for us at this stage and we have other good options who are which makes them better than him despite his talent.
You said he showed him up. So kind of sounds like that’s what you are saying.
I don’t want to critics Bruno as I hope he just gets better and better. With better players around him. But it’s only been a few games. Let’s not get carried away.
Most likely scenario. Fair enough though
I think the reason we are happy with Bruno and why some are saying that he has shown Pogba up, is that Bruno presses, hassles, wins the ball back and moves so well off the ball. Whereas with Pogba, the narrative was always who to buy and in what positions, to get the best out of him.
I think as long as he hasn't been transferred anywhere, ill still look forward to a midfield where they both play with one holding midfielder behind them.
I think as long as he hasn't been transferred anywhere, ill still look forward to a midfield where they both play with one holding midfielder behind them.
This is a great perspective. The team needs to succeed and there was no doubt with Pogba playing we were a better side. The question is whether we will be a better side moving forwards him in the team. Fernandes seems to be a great signing who has slotted in perfectly. Its all about how we invest this Summer to strengthen and balance other areas.
Problem is that creatively we can't be solely reliant on Bruno, as we did with Pogba. We would be in the same boat as before the Bruno signing.... if Bruno gets injured then who plays those through balls?
Me too. It would be great to try it. We also have the option of being more defensive. And Bruno seems versatile enough that we can play in a few different ways tactically.
It's a step forward and upgrades both quality and depth, there's also thing with younger players like Gomes and Mejbri having proper older football characters to learn from.
Add someone in Grealish/Maddison mood on top of that and it looks like manager will finally possess deeper tactical option when selecting match day team
Add someone in Grealish/Maddison mood on top of that and it looks like manager will finally possess deeper tactical option when selecting match day team
This is the part I struggle to accept. The club paid huge money for Pogba and reward him very well financially. So deep down he wants a move? So what? We've had bigger players than him in that situation before but none have behaved like Pogba and got their move while still being loved by grateful fans.
Pogba has done very little to justify either his price tag or his wages. He has regularly been at the centre of all sorts of negative stories (not all of them can be the fault of the media) and has said absolutely nothing while his agent has trashed the club on more than one occasion. And still some people seem to blame the club 'for not fulfilling Pogba's ambitions' and letting Pogba down?
Honestly, it grates. Yes, the club has been in a struggle but a proper player on that kind of money would dig in and help out, even if he does want to move on. Pogba has contributed almost nothing of note. Yes, he's injured currently, but before that.
He is not our best player anymore. Shouldn't be the first name on the team sheet even when he is fit.
Well ideally you get a right winger to share the load but yes, it would leave us a bit thin if Bruno was injured. I guess Mata would come in in that case which isn't ideal but is probably more suitable choice than using Pogba once in a blue moon. Maybe a more attack minded midfielder who can play in a midfield 2 would be a good option to let us switch things up when appropriate.
The problem is that we are currently a team battling for top 5. We need to strengthen and improve so any notion that Mata is good enough is not well founded as he is currently part of the recipe for our current level. We need more players of Bruno's quality and without guarantee of that it is hard to let go of a player like Pogba.
It is also about the planning behind the scenes. If we are planning to selling Pogba and lining up Partey, Havertz etc etc then obviously this is a different discussion. However if its sell Pogba, we still have Mata and hope for a right wing signing. Well that leaves me very nervous and I hope to god the club are not thinking that way.
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There is more to the sentence.
I qualified the statement. I don't normally stop reading sentence when I get to a bit that annoys me. Fernandes is a creative midfielder with incredible stats and a good start here. He shows a completely different willingness to do things pogba thinks are beneath him or can't be bothered doing.
I want to believe that Pogba / Bruno / Fred (or someone with better defensive qualities in the middle of tha Park) will become a thing. I feel like such a trio could propel us to a title challenge if we secure a right winger that brings creativity to the starting 11.
That could make things flow a bit better for everyone. Pogba doesn't necessarily want to play for Real. Juve seems like a destination. It's all about squad quality and in realistic terms our squad was so poor as of late. We are finally potentially 2 steps from having that level required why disregard Pogba without first giving it a go?
That could make things flow a bit better for everyone. Pogba doesn't necessarily want to play for Real. Juve seems like a destination. It's all about squad quality and in realistic terms our squad was so poor as of late. We are finally potentially 2 steps from having that level required why disregard Pogba without first giving it a go?
I mean come on. What is this?He is injured. What do people not get about this?
I get he is injured. So is Rashford but he is there supporting the club / team.
Pogba instead is busy having a pop and Manutd and Ole. His brother is repeatedly saying everyone knows he wants to leave.
What do you not get by that?
I'm not being vague. You have decided to limit your perception of the situation to purely one aspect. Hurr Pogba good creative = better team with him. It doesn't work that way. For instance I'm not saying hurr Pogba bad boy = worse team with him. I'm simply saying that it is a legitimate concern and the risk of the second part happening is way more damaging than the first part would be positive. The guy wants out.
How do you not get that?The proof, there is not any doubt about his motivation and loyalty anymore. The questions about his attitude has been answered from this. Unless you've been living under a rock the proof is there to see that his loyalty and ambition belong solely with himself and his agent. Hence his indifferent views on the clubs success, proved by his actions of repeatedly using his agent to bully United and the consequence of that is unsettling and poisonous atmosphere rooted in ego, money etc. There is a clear disconnect with the clubs values and those of Pogba and his agent. The club wants characters that work together for the greater good of the team, while Pogba has proved himself to be a guy that works only for himself and he does not care if it gets in the way of others. He doesn't care if the fans love or hate him anymore because he simply just wants to leave, he doesn't care about the club so he has told his agent to do whatever it takes to get him out.
How do you know he hasn't? Claiming he has it's basis in rumours, reports etc, while claiming it is impossible for him to have a negative effect on the team, considered a captain and loved by everyone I find that hard to believe. It is not like he would come in there going "Hey guys, I'm going to interrupt you now" He is himself, but with an agenda and however subtle his negativity is it can rub off. Come on, this is not a new thing. It is perfectly normal to assume a want-away disruptive player with an agenda that is no longer hidden can have a negative effect on the togetherness of the team. The team should be focused on developing relationships with each other, not be concerned with Pogba's confusing antics and hidden intentions and if they can provide him enough game time to be fit for Euros.
Just the nature of this thread is poisonous. Imagine a want-away player being shoehorned into a side he hasn't contributed anything to just to get him fit for the Euros before he can leave. Somehow this is exiting. It is not, and it wont happen and we should be happy about the fact we haven't depended on him to get close to top 4. It means the whole team effort and commitment is on the way up. Why possibly disrupt that improvement by introducing any uncommitted, unfocused player to the squad? No matter how creative.
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Would be interesting to see them play together as they both like to attack, Bruno’s probably the more complete player though, would definitely work against teams that sit deep against us.
It's weird how there is no one in the United camp complaining about pogba.
I am so glad we can now have conversations about Pogba and Fernandes in our midfield rather than Pereira and Lingard.
Don't know what's confusing. He's shown that a creative player can still contribute in the spells of the game where we aren't on top. Pogba simply doesn't do that.
There is an extension the club can trigger and they will most likely. So he can go on a free in 2022. And there is nothing to understand for me. If Pogba doesn't want to sign, after this season, he can get ready to be in the U-23 a la Schweinsteiger. And let's see if he's ready to do that.
I also like been fair but what his agent has done has been disrespectful to the club considering how we have accmodated him even at the expense of one of our manager.
It just gets draining and deviates focus from the issue at hand. I just feel like we will not be a stable team with him still around.
United has changed strategy with Ole coming on, which is that they are not going to air the dirty laundry publicly.
So we may have shared stuff to him, but we will not put ourselves in an embarrassing situation anymore.
Now, it's possible Pogba still has some friends within United. It may not be black or white. But I think he needs to earn the points in the league and win the games for us to start having a serious discussion about the future.
Doesn't Juve have a glut of good midfielders? It wouldn't make much sense for them to spend 100m to add another midfielder.
Any manager would be derelict in their duties if they don't try to play Bruno and Pogba together. My gut instincts say it would work very well as both like to do quick 1,2 passes and both have the skill and vision for such football.
Come on man! Let's just agree to disagree on him. We've had this conversation over two different threads now
The numbers fully support what I'm saying in terms of his quality, and calling him a 'virus' is a bit OTT. I'll leave you to your frustrations with him. You are at Graeme Souness levels of 'sour'ness levels with Pogba. Here's hoping you don't loose your mind like him.
I thought fans often have 'rose tinted glasses' for their own players. Just a question - can you list out which of our outfield players you really rate as 'united quality'? Will be good to see if your cynicism stretches beyond Pogba
I'll be surprised if fans boo him on the ground when he comes back. Will he quite sad if it happens. I still feel that the haters are a minority but I could be wrong.