[Stacks]

A derby against City or otherwise, there's simply too much kneejerking, scapegoating and negativity.

Also starting to see fans with the "never wanted Mourinho in the first place."

It is one match. Only one match out of close to 40. Even SAF lost 6-1 against City and remarked after that the Rio was naive. Throwing Rio under the bus, too huh?

So much critcism about tactics. How many of us know better? It is simple, no? Even the best tactic, when executed incorrectly will become a terrible one. Imagine we scored 2 from hoofball at the end, fans will be praising how effective it had been.

Unlike many fans who seem stuck to opinions and ways, our managers and players do learn and improve. There are many positives and negatives, as with most games.

Once again, it is only one match.

Much kneejerking indeed. The second half reminded me we can compete. I did feel we needed this humbling lesson though as our eariler fixtures were too kind for our players including our defence. People were saying Blind/Bailly are a top class partnership which is extreme.

 

[Treble]

Much kneejerking indeed. The second half reminded me we can compete. I did feel we needed this humbling lesson though as our eariler fixtures were too kind for our players including our defence. People were saying Blind/Bailly are a top class partnership which is extreme.

Citeh have been average in the second half of every league game so far, nothing to do with United, IMO.

In the second half vs

Sunderland - 1:1
Stoke - 2:1 (the result flattered them though)
Wham -1:1
United - 0:0

 

[Stacks]

Citeh have been average in the second half of every league game so far, nothing to do with United, IMO.

In the second half vs

Sunderland - 1:1
Stoke - 2:1 (the result flattered them though)
Wham -1:1
United - 0:0

That doesn't mean much. We played better. won 2nd balls, spent much time on the front foot. We did make changes

 

[Treble]

That doesn't mean much. We played better. won 2nd balls, spent much time on the front foot. We did make changes

It means a lot, given that even Stoke and Wham looked much better in the second half vs Citeh, compared to what they showed in the first half. They looked like different teams altogether. The narrative that we struggled in the first half only because of tactical blunders is very naive, IMO. The problems run deeper. Only time will tell though, maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Red Dreams]

@RedPnutz and @Stacks

some good observations.
For those fawning over Pep and the blue shite players...well go fecking support them then.
Many wanted Pep here and many including me wanted Mourinho here.
i have complete faith in him to turn us around after 3 years of utter wank management.

 

[Stacks]

It means a lot, given that even Stoke and Wham looked much better in the second half vs Citeh, compared to what they showed in the first half. They looked like different teams altogether. The narrative that we struggled in the first half only because of tactical blunders is very naive, IMO. The problems run deeper. Only time will tell though, maybe I'm wrong.

As every game is unique, we will never know whether it was tactical, or City mental weakness. It is impossible to determine. We definately made big changes and we definately had them on the back foot. They went into counter attack mode. We were launching long balls to Felligol (Fellaini striker alter ego) and Zlatan. who knows?

 

[parisite]

As every game is unique, we will never know whether it was tactical, or City mental weakness. It is impossible to determine. We definately made big changes and we definately had them on the back foot. They went into counter attack mode. We were launching long balls to Felligol (Fellaini striker alter ego) and Zlatan. who knows?

to be honest I thought their keeper had them on the back foot as much as anything, what a clown Pep's signed there. Bet Bravo doesn't last until Christmas and Caballero will be their first choice keeper.

 

[Stacks]

to be honest I thought their keeper had them on the back foot as much as anything, what a clown Pep's signed there. Bet Bravo doesn't last until Christmas and Caballero will be their first choice keeper.

"He had the best game Pep has ever seen."

 

[parisite]

"He had the best game Pep has ever seen."

oh really !
Pep dumping Hart for Bravo is like José dumping BfS, you know there must be a reason for it but you can't quite put your finger on anything except momentary whim.

 

[TrueRed79]

Mourinho got his team selection and tactics wrong. It happens to every manager, so i am not worried about one game. City were excellent and fully deserved their win. Bet Mourinho learnt more from that loss than he would if we nicked a draw etc, while would have been undeserved anyway. Pogba has to play in a 3. Even if he was indeed given license to push forward more, he was still very poor in that game. Fellaini is not a holding MF, so the sooner Jose sorts that part of the team out the better. Other than that, we did ok in the second half without really bothering them too much.

 

[El Zoido]

Been way too much knee jerking. My old man has been following United since he was a lad, and used to go to OT every week in the late 60's through to early 80's, yet after the game on Saturday he phoned me up to tell me the first half from City is the best half of football he's ever seen in his entire football supporting life. Jesus wept. I know we expected more from us but I felt a hell of a lot worse after the 6-1. Lose the derby and throw out all sense of perspective and shovel in some hyperbole and that's been the general attitude I've seen from a lot of United fans since Saturday.

 

[Infra-red]

And he is not wrong, Pogba has no discipline, Deschamps calls him out for it all of the time concerning the national side. He's a young, half complete CM and should not be relied upon to contribute very much defensively. Paying 90+ million for him was a glaring error if we wanted
someone with any defensive qualities. Matuidi at about a third of the price was a far bettter option.

It's not that he doesn't possess any defensive qualities; he's got great strength and stamina, is a tough tackler and also a monster in the air. Frankly he has the raw materials to excel in just about any midfield role you choose to give him. The problem is that he's accustomed to playing in a midfield three, rather than within the restrictions of a midfield two.

If Mourinho wants to turn him into a deep-lying midfielder, I'm sure with time and training he'd adapt very well, although I think that would be a waste of his biggest strength - running the ball from midfield.

 

[Litch]

i watched the games, just didn't make much comment as far as I can recall. For the France games, I've seen every one since about 1985, attending about 30% personally, and about half of Juve's games in the last 10 years or so...Enough for you...

Then that's makes your remarks even more stupid as you will have seen first hand Pogba's influence grow on both French and Italian football.

 

[RedPnutz]

Citeh have been average in the second half of every league game so far, nothing to do with United, IMO.

In the second half vs

Sunderland - 1:1
Stoke - 2:1 (the result flattered them though)
Wham -1:1
United - 0:0

If what you postulate is true, the doesn't it seem like the correct tactic would be to sit tight in the first half, defend well and hit them in the second half when they 'slump' to average?

Why go head to head in the beginning? We don't have to go flying out of the stalls every time.

 

[parisite]

Then that's makes your remarks even more stupid as you will have seen first hand Pogba's influence grow on both French and Italian football.

you're digging yourself a trench here. I have not said Pogba isn't a fair old player, I've said he's being used wrongly and that he has been openly criticised before for his poor defensive qualities and going missing or doing whatever he wants on occasions. This is what Carragher said and as I said he is not wrong.

 

[Treble]

If what you postulate is true, the doesn't it seem like the correct tactic would be to sit tight in the first half, defend well and hit them in the second half when they 'slump' to average?

Why go head to head in the beginning? We don't have to go flying out of the stalls every time.

The correct tactic is to match the intensity of their pressing and play in the first half: something which is admittedly very difficult to be done, especially for a a team with Fellaini, Rooney, Zlatan who are not particularly mobile and quick over short distances. Another tactic is just to play anti-football and rely on luck but this is not an option for the top teams. I think that even the best teams in Europe would struggle to outplay Citeh in the first half. Their CL games vs Barca would be instructive in this regard. Liverpool are currently the only team in the EPL that can match the intensity of their play but they have obvious defensive issues and cannot stop Citeh's attack. The drawback is that Citeh may get tired and lose form in the second half of the season. Their squad isn't big enough and injuries may cause them big problems. Besides, many of their players are in their 30s.

 

[RedPnutz]

The correct tactic is to match the intensity of their pressing and play in the first half: something which is admittedly very difficult to be done, especially for a a team with Fellaini, Rooney, Zlatan who are not particularly mobile and quick over short distances. Another tactic is just to play anti-football and rely on luck but this is not an option for the top teams. I think that even the best teams in Europe would struggle to outplay Citeh in the first half. Their CL games vs Barca would be instructive in this regard. Liverpool are currently the only team in the EPL that can match the intensity of their play but they have obvious defensive issues and cannot stop Citeh's attack. The drawback is that Citeh may get tired and lose form in the second half of the season. Their squad isn't big enough and injuries may cause them big problems. Besides, many of their players are in their 30s.

Well different strokes for different folks then. If it were me, I would rather withstand the pressure in the first half and hit them in the second if I knew that was their weakness.

 

[Treble]

Well different strokes for different folks then. If it were me, I would rather withstand the pressure in the first half and hit them in the second if I knew that was their weakness.

I agree. The problem is that it is very difficult to withstand the pressure without matching the intensity of their movement and the latter is crazy. The reason why they are not particularly strong in the second half of their games is that it is almost humanly impossible to play with the same intensity 90 min.

Guardiola had the same problem at Bayern. They smashed Juve in the first half in Turin this spring and did the same with Atleti in Munich but couldn't play in the same manner in the second halfs. Similarly, they lasted 70 min at Camp Nou last year but then conceded 3 goals for 20 min.

 

[Denis79]

@RedPnutz and @Stacks

some good observations.
For those fawning over Pep and the blue shite players...well go fecking support them then.
Many wanted Pep here and many including me wanted Mourinho here.
i have complete faith in him to turn us around after 3 years of utter wank management.

Completely agree. City can feck off and Pep to with his boring football.

 

[MartialsBeard]

Completely agree. City can feck off and Pep to with his boring football.

Its funny because there were times in the game where it was boring when they had the ball.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It's not that he doesn't possess any defensive qualities; he's got great strength and stamina, is a tough tackler and also a monster in the air. Frankly he has the raw materials to excel in just about any midfield role you choose to give him. The problem is that he's accustomed to playing in a midfield three, rather than within the restrictions of a midfield two.

If Mourinho wants to turn him into a deep-lying midfielder, I'm sure with time and training he'd adapt very well, although I think that would be a waste of his biggest strength - running the ball from midfield.

The most important defensive quality of all is being in the right place at the right time. That's something evidently lacking in his game and the reason he seems unable to cope with being one of two CMs while much lesser players cope just fine. Even if we play him in a three we'll be found out against the best teams around until his positional play improves.

If he doesn't get better at that aspect of the midfield role he won't ever be a patch on the world class box to box midfielders he's been compared to, like Viera and Keane.

He's under a good manager to learn this stuff and it's easy to forget how young he is and how much more scope he has to develop and improve. I hope this happens, because then we really will have one of the best players in the world in our team. Until that happens he will remain a work in progress. No matter how much we paid for him.

 

[gza the genius]

The team selection killed us. Having just Fellaini and Pogba in the center gave them far too much room to do what they pleased. Once we got Herrera on things looked much better. It was a disappointing performance overall but the second half we competed and could've equalized. We just need to figure out our best formation and lineup.

 

[Sultan]

We should have played with 3 in midfield.

Pogba and Fellaini are not disciplined enough to play in a 2 man midfield against top sides. It is not also their best positions based on previous seasons and clubs where they thrived.

Carrick or Morgan are best suited to play a holding role with Pogba and Herrera/Fellaini given more of a licence to play more to their strengths without hurting the team if we lose shape.

 

[Red Dreams]

the main issue was what Mourinho addressed after.

Plyers did not do what they were supposed to do. We had two passengers. Lindgard and Mikhi. The moment they got the ball, they gave it away. Immediate pressure on the team.
He did not go into details. But surely pressing the defender is expected...which we did not. That was the cause of the first goal.

 

[Litch]

you're digging yourself a trench here. I have not said Pogba isn't a fair old player, I've said he's being used wrongly and that he has been openly criticised before for his poor defensive qualities and going missing or doing whatever he wants on occasions. This is what Carragher said and as I said he is not wrong.

Not digging myself out of anything. My opinion wasn't based on whether anything other than at Utd, it's a new chapter of his career which he's only a few games into the context of which is completely different to where he's come from. Equally him going missing somehow is attributed to the city winning when for 45 mins both the players left and right of him couldn't even trap a football. Furthermore, unless it's Roy of the Rovers, is there a complete footballer out there? I thought players of his ability are about sometimes doing this instinctively unless your playing him on FIFA 16? Maybe that's what some would describe as doing whatever he wants?

Carragher isn't the barometer of football knowledge and more than Gary is now he's realised that talk is cheap too....

 

[Litch]

We should have played with 3 in midfield.

Pogba and Fellaini are not disciplined enough to play in a 2 man midfield against top sides. It is not also their best positions based on previous seasons and clubs where they thrived.

Carrick or Morgan are best suited to play a holding role with Pogba and Herrera/Fellaini given more of a licence to play more to their strengths without hurting the team if we lose shape.

For me we are still trying to find the right system whilst playing against one of the best teams in Europe. The problem is there are still question marks against some players too. I'm not convinced about Blind or Valencia. Nor am I about Rooney at 10. I'm not seen enough good and consistent performances from the other midfielders to know if the are capable after all, they certainly weren't for the last 2 seasons....

 

[Red Dreams]

For me we are still trying to find the right system whilst playing against one of the best teams in Europe. The problem is there are still question marks against some players too. I'm not convinced about Blind or Valencia. Nor am I about Rooney at 10. I'm not seen enough good and consistent performances from the other midfielders to know if the are capable after all, they certainly weren't for the last 2 seasons....

I agree with this. Mourinho is using two different teams for the 4 titles. We will see players move between the teams. Saturday was more a failure of the players than the tactic or system imo.

 

[Cityfaninpeace]

Completely agree. City can feck off and Pep to with his boring football.

Yeah I wish we had a manager who made us lump it up to the big lad up front.

 

[Tyrion]

What would he be doing 'better' than Fellaini based on the last 4-5 games...?

Fellaini is fine when we're playing a poor team but against City, Chelsea or even Arsenal, I don't think he can do anything that will have an impact on the game. Herrera can keep the ball and doesn't constantly give away fouls.

 

[Red Dreams]

Yeah I wish we had a manager who made us lump it up to the big lad up front.

is that what you have analysed Mourinho's style to be?

 

[Cityfaninpeace]

is that what you have analysed Mourinho's style to be?

In comparison to the idiotic statement that pep's football is boring, yes.

 

[Litch]

Fellaini is fine when we're playing a poor team but against City, Chelsea or even Arsenal, I don't think he can do anything that will have an impact on the game. Herrera can keep the ball and doesn't constantly give away fouls.

Don't agree and the seasons not defined by results against those teams. If that was the case LVG would still be here. That said, have you seen how many fouls Herrera gives away and Fellianis pass percentage isn't that bad. Not making it a Felliani v Herrera as I'm not convinced either are good enough.

 

[Red Dreams]

In comparison to the idiotic statement that pep's football is boring, yes.

personally I have never liked tiki taka football. I am used to direct attacking football. Win the ball in midfield and let the forward players put teh team to the sword.
The only other system I have admired is Total Football by Cruyff's Ajax.


The great man understands what I mean.

EDIT: I love His last statement

 

[Cityfaninpeace]

personally I have never liked tiki taka football. I am used to direct attacking football. Win the ball in midfield and let the forward players put teh team to the sword.
The only other system I have admired is Total Football by Cruyff's Ajax.


The great man understands what I mean.

Let me ask you a question, did you prefer city's football or United's football on Saturday?

Also pep doesn't play tiki taka, he hates that style of football.

 

[Red Dreams]

Let me ask you a question, did you prefer city's football or United's football on Saturday?

Also pep doesn't play tiki taka, he hates that style of football.

I did not see anything City played that was to be adopted.
I was pissed we did not do our job.
There is nothing magical about your team. You are not a wonder team. Sunderland would have easily taken a point of you if Moyes had kept his head.

 

[Cityfaninpeace]

I did not see anything City played that was to be adopted.
I was pissed we did not do our job.
There is nothing magical about your team. You are not a wonder team. Sunderland would have easily taken a point of you if Moyes had kept his head.

Okay.

 

[Red Dreams]

@Cityfaninpeace
Do you think that based on one match that City are a superior footballing side to United?
I can understand your supporting your team.
What I find difficult to understand is fans who claim to support United are falling over themselves to worship Pep and some of his players. Quite odd.
Think they should follow their hearts to your ground.

 

[Cityfaninpeace]

@Cityfaninpeace
Do you think that based on one match that City are a superior footballing side to United?
I can understand your supporting your team.
What I find difficult to understand is fans who claim to support United are falling over themselves to worship Pep and some of his players. Quite odd.
Think they should follow their hearts to your ground.

I think you're flying off the handle mate. I was responding to a poster who said pep's team was boring. Now given our clubs have both played each other very recently and our respective systems were tested against one another I responded along those lines.

But based on your question here, yes I do think city are a superior footballing side but no not based on one game. Part of that is based on my personal taste of football and I personally much prefer pep's style to Jose's. That's not to say United aren't a good team or Jose isn't a good manager.

 

[Red Dreams]

I think you're flying off the handle mate. I was responding to a poster who said pep's team was boring. Now given our clubs have both played each other very recently and our respective systems were tested against one another I responded along those lines.

But based on your question here, yes I do think city are a superior footballing side but no not based on one game. Part of that is based on my personal taste of football and I personally much prefer pep's style to Jose's. That's not to say United aren't a good team or Jose isn't a good manager.

fair enough

 

[Denis79]

In comparison to the idiotic statement that pep's football is boring, yes.

I don't enjoy tiki taka football, so I find it boring and you don't nothing wrong in that. For the record Bayern was the most entertaining team in the world before pep came there.