CL L Champions League Group H

Manchester United 1:3 Paris St Germain

Post-match discussion


Wed, 02 December 2020

croadyman

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Say whatever you want, because Martial shit the bed and Fred 100% should have been replaced before his red, but this is the first time I can remember since SAF left that a played a top European side and absolutely dominated the game. Both in possession and pressing wise, we looked the better side pretty much the entire game, which hasn't happened against the bigger clubs. Most of the time we've been the team sitting back and countering top teams, which is where we are comfortable. But we went directly at PSG, and were we not wasteful we probably put 3-5 past them.

Shit result, but I was really pleased with the majority of the team. Martial and Bruno were the only two players I watched and thought were poor, and Martial was mainly due to his finishing. Fred I thought was actually okay apart from his recklessness that got him sent off. Defense did about as well as you can hope for who we have and how aggressive we were in our gameplay.
Yeah was one of our better performances but there are no points awarded for good effort
 

Bulldog United

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It was a weird game.

The referee was shocking. After struggling to find the VAR monitor, taking one quick glance to determine Fred hadn’t committee violent conduct and only booking him had me laughing out loud. He missed another opportunity in the first half to send Fred off, but then, after half time, he couldn’t get the second yellow out quickly enough the moment Fred slid in and made a good tackle. I wonder what happened at half time?

I was amazed Fred wasnt pulled off at half time. The thing is, he didn’t put a foot wrong in the second half. He was an important cog in the team. It was looking like a genius move from Ole to keep him on, but alas he gets that second yellow for what was actually an excellent ball winning tackle.

We started badly and then eventually came to life after conceding early. Our only goal came from a massive slice of good fortune. Cavani was really unlucky with some magic that made me purr, and Martial sent a glorious chance into orbit that would have surely buried PSG.

PSG spent most of the match trying to get our players sent off. Neymar as usual wasting his natural footballing talent by living out his fantasy hollywood acting career.

PSG didn’t deserve to win but walked away 3-1 winners. Both teams can point to crucial moments of misfortune. In the end though, PSG got what they didn’t deserve and that’s hard to stomach.
 

tjb

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We had them against the ropes. Controlled the game. I see this as the following SQUAD and MANAGEMENT mistakes:

1. Ole didn't go with a 3-5-2, adding Tuanzebe, like we played in Paris. Why? PSG really didn't threaten in Paris and we looked deadly on the break.
2. Fred. In my opinion, Paredes AND Fred should have been sent off. Paredes for taunting and placing his forehead on Fred, and Fred for retaliating. The second yellow for Fred was going to come anyhow.
3. Ole should have pulled Fred at halftime.
4. Tony Martial. How could someone have such sublime moments, but at the same time, miss so many easy chances???
5. I thought Marquinhos foot was slightly ahead of Cavani's, and thus offside. Where is the VAR with lines?

No issues with Cavani missing the chip. He was excellent all night.

Look, I've been a staunch supporter of Ole throughout, but I'm starting to wonder if he's the manager to take us to titles and seriously challenge for the league.
Its errors like this game that worry me with him now, but his experience level will only increase in these type of situations.I can't criticize him for this game and not give him credit for how we look against good opposition now. We can go to to toe. Whether its tactics or improved personnel, Ole has done a great job of moving the squad forward since Jose left, something Jose not LVG really achieved. We can have bad form, but there is no doubt we are better as a team.

The question are:

a) Can he improve us to a dominant point? This is a question of whether we feel he can move us even more. If he can't, at what point do we make a move?

b) If he can't move us forward with the way the club is currently constructed, is there anything we can do to make it possible for that to happen? Maybe in bringing in a more experience tactician ro his staff.

The truth is, tactically, we have looked good, both in terms of solidity and attack. In fact, personnel changes have shown how much better we can play. Besides the rookie errors like poor preparation for the season( covid or not that was terrible), he has shown an ability to make us look both compact and attacking at various points in his reign, win tough games as the underdog simply by looking tactically solid ironically. I really want to see how we end up looking under him.
 

ExoduS

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Sometimes you have to play smart football, but we couldn't do that today. It was amazingly open game, but after we equalized we failed to establish the control. I think we deserved more from this game, but you deserving and actually getting something isn't the same thing. Got to score when you have great chances.
 

NewGlory

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Say whatever you want, because Martial shit the bed and Fred 100% should have been replaced before his red, but this is the first time I can remember since SAF left that a played a top European side and absolutely dominated the game. Both in possession and pressing wise, we looked the better side pretty much the entire game, which hasn't happened against the bigger clubs. Most of the time we've been the team sitting back and countering top teams, which is where we are comfortable. But we went directly at PSG, and were we not wasteful we probably put 3-5 past them.

Shit result, but I was really pleased with the majority of the team. Martial and Bruno were the only two players I watched and thought were poor, and Martial was mainly due to his finishing. Fred I thought was actually okay apart from his recklessness that got him sent off. Defense did about as well as you can hope for who we have and how aggressive we were in our gameplay.
100% we have never been able to play a top club, since SAF, and be equal without getting lucky. We were equals in this game. Cavani and Bruno are making that difference. Everybody else has progessed as well, but really - it is Cavani and Bruno driving the rest.

Sometimes you have to play smart football, but we couldn't do that today. It was amazingly open game, but after we equalized we failed to establish the control. I think we deserved more from this game, but you deserving and actually getting something isn't the same thing. Got to score when you have great chances.
Yes, I think we deserved a draw. 2:2 maybe.
 

Jeffthered

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Good game to watch. We played competitively, rather than great football, and I think this applies to both teams. In fact, there are quite a few parallels between the team's here:

Both teams had chances, but both teams look rather insecure. Both teams could be better coached and managed as both managers clearly fail to exude the authority or confidence that both of their respective clubs demand. Neither team looked like they had (have) game-plans, preferring to rely upon individual inspiration. For example, Could you trust that PSG defensive unit...? They are more like a group of individuals, not settled at all.

Neymar was the best and most Influential player on the park. Easily.

It's truly a shame he is so theatrical, because he is a brilliant footballer, wonderful natural talent, who could inspire many, many more young players.

Cavani adds experience, quality and class to our team and play. A lovely player, who could, could have a terrific, and much needed impact on our team.
 
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downunder red

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I could easily dish out some criticism like a lot of fans have but I won't. What I would like to mention is the game it self. It had something happening from start to finish. All game I was swearing or cursing about them, us, the coach's, ref and VAR. My blood pressure was through the roof. This why I love the game. Fair enough we were on the wrong end of the result but give me that type of game any day.
 

Alek M

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Midway through the second half before their goal we were in control. Counter attacks, two in a row, total control.

happy that even with man down we were attacking and had few chances. The belief was there that we can score.

We played well, deserved a draw.
 

Greck

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Wish I could bring myself to be as positive over the performance. Maybe once we qualify from the group but for now it's a result that puts us on the verge of going back to the dreaded Europa league. Next tuesday's game is now a cup final and I really wanted to avoid that. Would rather be knocked out in the CL quarter final than go back to playing obscure teams in pointless 2 legged ties in the Europa league.

In Europa the best case scenario sees you run yourself ragged to win a cup with no bragging rights, the worst case scenario sees you get dishonourably knocked out by some inferior european team no one had heard of in years
 

The Boy

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Oops posted this in the wrong thread, was meant to go here....

Bad luck!

You easily had enough chances and played well enough to draw if not win that. I think it's very easy with hindsight and quite harsh to say everyone knew Fred should have come off at half time, I'm sure if he had and you'd lost then Ole would have taken a hammering for that as well. Cavani and Martial both came very close and on another night you'd be walking away with the right result. I thought you looked the better team for a lot of the game especially the second half upto the sending off and even after that you played some quick attacking football. To be fair Fred should have been given a straight red in the first half and certainly should not have got a yellow for that tackle in the second, but that's football.

If I were to criticise Ole, I think the only fair thing to get him on was not trying to contain the game a bit earlier, instead I think you had the mindset to keep pushing for that second goal, once you conceded and went down to 10 men at pretty much the same time, that chance was lost and he had to gamble hence Pogba, VdB, Greenwood and Ighalo. Maybe Matic could have come on for Fred at the hour mark to manage the game a bit better, but again hindsight makes decisions like this very easy!
 

Greck

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Oops posted this in the wrong thread, was meant to go here....

Bad luck!

You easily had enough chances and played well enough to draw if not win that. I think it's very easy with hindsight and quite harsh to say everyone knew Fred should have come off at half time, I'm sure if he had and you'd lost then Ole would have taken a hammering for that as well. Cavani and Martial both came very close and on another night you'd be walking away with the right result. I thought you looked the better team for a lot of the game especially the second half upto the sending off and even after that you played some quick attacking football. To be fair Fred should have been given a straight red in the first half and certainly should not have got a yellow for that tackle in the second, but that's football.

If I were to criticise Ole, I think the only fair thing to get him on was not trying to contain the game a bit earlier, instead I think you had the mindset to keep pushing for that second goal, once you conceded and went down to 10 men at pretty much the same time, that chance was lost and he had to gamble hence Pogba, VdB, Greenwood and Ighalo. Maybe Matic could have come on for Fred at the hour mark to manage the game a bit better, but again hindsight makes decisions like this very easy!
It's not really hindsight to say Fred should have come of. We were all calling for it. Even armchair managers on redcafe and social media were screaming it. He wasn't even playing that much more diciplined after picking up the yellow. We also know he likes to lunge into tackles
 

Nevilles.Wear.Prada

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Why Mbabpe didn’t play for psg today?
:lol:
He did had his moments skinning our defence coming in from wide positions today. If he was a bit more clinical in his application, could have contributed much more. He and neymar are so exciting to watch. Shame its only PSG. They should both leave to actually compete week in and out for everything somewhere.
 

Adrian Saint

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I can't believe OGS is still there. For a club of UTD'S size they really should have a top name experienced coach. Sooner or later he will be sacked so what is the point holding onto him. Same with Lampard, those wins aren't fooling me whatsoever as they haven't played anybody of note in all those wins; he needs to go as well. And on a heart warming note: Klopp won't go the distance, he can't handle pressure, he's cracking up. You can see the fear in his eyes when he's whining, blaming and making excuses to the after match interviewers.
 

Dansk

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Not to worry. Ole's job is on the line, so we'll go and win 5-0 when it saves him.

Then right afterwards, we'll lose at home to Huddersfield or something.
 

croadyman

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Not to worry. Ole's job is on the line, so we'll go and win 5-0 when it saves him.

Then right afterwards, we'll lose at home to Huddersfield or something.
Got City afterwards but then Sheffield Utd away on the following Thursday
 

manunited1919

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So, supposing both PSG and MUFC win our last games, we would both be at 12 points but PSG will top the group. Weren’t Ole an his coaching staff aware of the huge difference between losing 2-1 and losing 3-1 for our overall CL progression? That was terrible game management from Ole, going gung-ho at the death and leaving our slow defenders exposed.
 

DomesticTadpole

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I don't think a manager should just sub Fred every time he's on a yellow. Managers keep players on a lot when this happens and I think most of the time it works out OK and they don't get sent off. It's a gamble that didn't work today but I think it was worth taking since nobody on the bench could adequately replace him.

Still waiting to see who people would suggest as his replacement from the bench. I'd take Fred on a yellow over Pogba right now.
I would agree normally, but he was lucky to still be on the pitch anyway as a lot of refs and even after a VAR review, would have sent him off. He had been wound up by PSG. If it had been for a tackle then you take the risk, but PSG are cheats and would do everything in their power to make a red happen. They do it against other teams in Ligue 1 when they should have the ability to beat them anyway.
 

DomesticTadpole

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Yet he was sent off for a foul that was ok tackle wasn't he? Or at least from what I've seen of the season replays.

Anyway, should've changed formation imo, we had 5 subs.
It was an alright tackle, but reactions from the opposition can influence referees. Maybe ref and VAR thought they made a mistake in the first half with Fred so made up for it.
 

DomesticTadpole

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Until that challenge though, it didn't even remotely look like Fred was getting sent off, so I'm not so sure. Hindsight is 20/20. He only could have brought Matic on probably anyway, which I'm not sure would have been the right move.

Martial certainly had a very poor game today, missing some big opportunities, I think his days as a no 9 here could be pretty numbered if he doesn't get back to his more clinical ways.
I was surprised he started him, but I suppose he thought it was balanced. I would have had Donny or Greenwood in there somewhere. Now we have a problem. We could have won the group tonight instead we are scrabbling about to not land in the EL. If we do I would for once advocate playing second string. If we cannot get CL through league position we do not deserve to be in it anyway.

I do agree with everybody that we deserved at least a draw, but until we get a top class striker who we have to rely that his confidence hasn't gone all the time, we will always be on the outside looking in.
 

2 man midfield

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So, supposing both PSG and MUFC win our last games, we would both be at 12 points but PSG will top the group. Weren’t Ole an his coaching staff aware of the huge difference between losing 2-1 and losing 3-1 for our overall CL progression? That was terrible game management from Ole, going gung-ho at the death and leaving our slow defenders exposed.
It was worth the risk in my opinion, we’d all be saying he’s a genius if we’d nicked a late equaliser. Hindsight is a fine thing and all that.

The draw for the next round doesn’t look that much harder even if we finish runner up. Knowing our luck we’d get Madrid even if we top our group.
 

kouroux

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I could easily dish out some criticism like a lot of fans have but I won't. What I would like to mention is the game it self. It had something happening from start to finish. All game I was swearing or cursing about them, us, the coach's, ref and VAR. My blood pressure was through the roof. This why I love the game. Fair enough we were on the wrong end of the result but give me that type of game any day.
I exactly feel the same. This is the first game of the season where I felt like this too.
 

Dans

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Good game to watch. We played competitively, rather than great football, and I think this applies to both teams. In fact, there are quite a few parallels between the team's here:

Both teams had chances, but both teams look rather insecure. Both teams could be better coached and managed as both managers clearly fail to exude the authority or confidence that both of their respective clubs demand. Neither team looked like they had (have) game-plans, preferring to rely upon individual inspiration. For example, Could you trust that PSG defensive unit...? They are more like a group of individuals, not settled at all.

Neymar was the best and most Influential player on the park. Easily.

It's truly a shame he is so theatrical, because he is a brilliant footballer, wonderful natural talent, who could inspire many, many more young players.

Cavani adds experience, quality and class to our team and play. A lovely player, who could, could have a terrific, and much needed impact on our team.
Theatrical being a euphemism for cheat in his case. Agree about his ability, but I cannot warm to him at all.
 

Maureen-yo

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Let's keep some perspective here - this was a very good and essentially even game between two very good teams. Could have gone either way, but this time it was us drawing the shortest straw. Don't really feel bad about it - we've had wins I've felt worse about.

I kind of sympathise with the decision to keep Fred on. He'd had an excellent game, both defensively and offensively, and was really the driving force of the team. That's something you want to see in this team, and which we've not always had.

Two clear negatives: One was obviously Martials finishing. Overall his offensive contributions were better and more numerous than you'd expect with him playing on the wing, but he just doesn't score. He is obviously now in that classic striker dead zone where the non-scoring has become a thing in itself. The other was wobbly defense in the first half , where they did far too much backing into the box, and on several occasion struggled with marking and shape. For once I thought the central pairing was better than the full backs, with also some good offensive contributions from both Maguire and Lindelof. Telles in particular were again caught too far in-field on a few occasions, including on PSG first goal.

But otherwise, this was a good performance. Fred and McTominay were both excellent, McTominay especially defensively in the second half. We created quite a lot of good offensive play, Cavani moving relentlessly and well and Rashford creating lots down the right flank, though he took some time to get going. And it was a team effort, in fact one of the better attacking performances they've delivered this season. Except for the finishing. Bruno less good than usual though. And that shot from Pogba - what a goal that would have been.

Good performance, and losing to PSG is nothing to be ashamed about. Hope they build off the positives here for the West Ham game.
Good post, unlike all the doom.and gloom merchants, I thought we created enough chances to win and also shut them out for the majority of the game.
Telles' defensive position is a concern and I think it'll be exploited by the opposition in games to come; I personally would like Shaw back as soon as possible.
 

fps

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We created more than them but when you miss chances against quality opposition you often pay the price.They were more clinical than us and that's the reason we are still battling to qualify.
I thought this, then a poster pointed out they hit he bar and DeGea pulled off a truly world class save in the second half. I’d say chances were about even until that late pull away.

It was a very good game, between two very good teams, with some fine margins making the difference. Players worked hard. The real issue is the Turkey result!
 

RoyH1

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PSG was bound to have a strong reaction (think of all the money they have spent) and we didn't come at our best. All or nothing the next game.
 

Redfrog

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Yet he was sent off for a foul that was ok tackle wasn't he? Or at least from what I've seen of the season replays.

Anyway, should've changed formation imo, we had 5 subs.
Yes but the point is, eveeyone knew the ref would put him a second yellow for whatever fool. Most of the ref are acting like that when they want to make up for a contentious decision.
I don't criticise Ole usually but he should have know better this time.
 

troylocker

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We were the better team, Martial should have buried the game early in the 2nd half and Ole should have taken Fred off for Pogba, DVB or Matic at halftime. (A miracle he wasn't sent off for the headbutt)

Weird watching Rashford yesterday: He had some great moments out there, but 3-4 times when he made runs with the ball down the right flank he just let the defender steal the ball from him without even having to put in a challenge. It just looked unbelievably weak.
 

briansy

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Rashford got into so many good positions throughout the game and did very little with them. Martial didn't have a great game but anyone can have a bad miss. Leaving on Fred was asking for trouble - everyone said as much at half time, including the BT pundits. Bruno had a rare poor game for us.

Pity - there was some good stuff last night. It really feels like we have the quality now in all departments but can we bring it all together consistently? Frustrating night.
 

manichester

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When will the authorities have the bottle to stop this blatant play acting, players go down like they have been shot by a sniper in the stands and one minute later back up brandishing an imaginary card.
 

Jaqen H'ghar

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When we played a diamond in the last game I thought it was a test run for this game. It would have made sense, either playing a 3-5-2 or a 4-4-2 diamond and controlling the midfield battle. We didn't need a win, and the onus was on PSG to come up with solutions, so we should have made them work harder and commit more players forward to give our forwards space to exploit. What happened is that from the beginning they controlled the midfield, and you just knew this was going to be a difficult game.

Poor tactics aside, both teams created and missed some easy chances. The result could have gone either way, but it was annoying the way our players missed easy sitters. Their attempts to wind our players up and influence the refs eventually gave them the advantage and cost us.
 

Jaqen H'ghar

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We were the better team, Martial should have buried the game early in the 2nd half and Ole should have taken Fred off for Pogba, DVB or Matic at halftime. (A miracle he wasn't sent off for the headbutt)

Weird watching Rashford yesterday: He had some great moments out there, but 3-4 times when he made runs with the ball down the right flank he just let the defender steal the ball from him without even having to put in a challenge. It just looked unbelievably weak.
Good points. If we were the ones ahead I just can't see PSG having the fortitude to overturn the result.

Rashford isn't very good coming from the right. His ability to cut in and shoot isn't the same.
 

crossy1686

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Midway through the second half before their goal we were in control. Counter attacks, two in a row, total control.

happy that even with man down we were attacking and had few chances. The belief was there that we can score.

We played well, deserved a draw.
I always felt we would get back in the game, even after the red card. There was a belief about the team and purpose.
 

mitchmouse

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Everything I've been warning about for two years seen in 90 minutes yesterday:

A) we have two "strikers" who miss far too many chances and who won't score enough goals to make us challengers for anything;

B) DDG is not the keeper he was a few years ago and makes too many mistakes (while not pulling off game-changing saves), goes too often with his feet and is not brave enough;

C) Ole knows sod all about the club's DNA if he thinks we should play without wingers and he just doesn't have the nous or experience to be proactive - he is simply not good enough for United.

As for the game itself, I predicted a 2-0 loss and with the start we made I guess it's lucky we weren't four down before rashford's shot took a lucky deflection. What's sad is, that, despite, all their big names, PSG can be taken - they aren't that good but we produced yet another awful Old Trafford performance. Some people are saying having fans in the stadium will help - many would have walked out id disgust at most of our home performances this season.

None of this will change until the board find their balls, admit they have made another mistake and let Ole go - it's becoming very clear that top young players don't want to play for us right now. Felt so sorry for Cavani - lots of good movement and no one able to pick him out.

The club I love is breaking my heart
 

Borys

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Good points. If we were the ones ahead I just can't see PSG having the fortitude to overturn the result.

Rashford isn't very good coming from the right. His ability to cut in and shoot isn't the same.
He is better on the right than on the left on current form. Scored one goal and should've had one assist (Martial). He is also less predictable (on the left ne never seems natural, always needs to come inside).
 

The Urban Goose

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What would people be saying if Ole hooked Fred at HT for Matic, who then got destroyed by PSG, we got overrun in midfield and still lost; or Pogba, who gives away a penalty and we lost.

Management isn't an exact science. All last night proved is that we have very poor squad depth.
 

Greck

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What would people be saying if Ole hooked Fred at HT for Matic, who then got destroyed by PSG, we got overrun in midfield and still lost; or Pogba, who gives away a penalty and we lost.

Management isn't an exact science. All last night proved is that we have very poor squad depth.
Absolutely no one in their right mind would have faulted Ole for subbing of Fred. No one. Subbing a player on a yellow is the most defensible move in football management. Anyone who would have taken issue with it would be a mega idiot.

There was also no reason to believe we would get overrun. He's Fred not Pirlo. The midfield didn't even collapse after he got sent off
 

Player Ratings

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Compiled from 253 ratings.

Score Predictions

93,43,79
  • Man Utd win
  • PSG win
  • Draw

Detailed Results

  • 27% Man Utd 1:1 PSG
  • 21% Man Utd 2:1 PSG
  • 9% Man Utd 1:2 PSG
  • 9% Man Utd 2:2 PSG
  • 7% Man Utd 0:2 PSG
  • 6% Man Utd 1:0 PSG
  • 6% Man Utd 2:0 PSG
  • 5% Man Utd 3:1 PSG
  • 2% Man Utd 3:0 PSG
  • 2% Man Utd 3:2 PSG
  • 1% Man Utd 0:0 PSG
  • 1% Man Utd 1:3 PSG
  • 1% Man Utd 0:1 PSG
  • 1% Man Utd 0:3 PSG
  • 1% Man Utd 4:1 PSG
  • 0% Man Utd 4:0 PSG
  • 0% Man Utd 0:5 PSG
  • 0% Man Utd 4:3 PSG
  • 0% Man Utd 2:3 PSG
Compiled from 215 predictions.
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Match Stats

  1. Man Utd
  2. PSG
Possession
44% 56%
Shots
12 13
Shots on Target
5 6
Corners
3 5
Fouls
20 10

Referee

Daniele Orsato