It is baffling how poor we are when teams put pressure on us, or when we have a hostile crowd against us.
Lack of leadership? Composure? Skill? Tactictal awareness?
Lack of leadership? Composure? Skill? Tactictal awareness?
PL L FA Premier League
West Ham United 3:2 Manchester United
Post-match discussion
Tue, 10 May 2016
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
Also, don't know how much this has been mentioned but I've always ragged on Valencia for being a moron who concedes pointless fouls.
Cost us again tonight, him and Herrera. Utterly brainless.
Cost us again tonight, him and Herrera. Utterly brainless.
The crowd was there all day apparently. Wouldn't have mattered if they turned up hours earlier, they'd have still gotten battered when they arrived.
I guess it would have meant they could have gotten the bus smashed up and still had time to compose themselves for 7:45.
Men against boys.
Blind was finally found out. Herrera and Rojo were also poor, Rashford is just a kid. Schneiderlin was also awful.
Valencia had a decent game and Martial was great again.
We need to sign 4-5 top class players this summer and get a new manager in.
Blind was finally found out. Herrera and Rojo were also poor, Rashford is just a kid. Schneiderlin was also awful.
Valencia had a decent game and Martial was great again.
We need to sign 4-5 top class players this summer and get a new manager in.
Our coach should bugger off back to the Netherlands.
Predictable. I'm fairly ambivalent to all things football these days. There'll be change in the summer so right now it's a case of enjoying - or trying to - the FA Cup final and getting a win in that.
I'm sure some grand observations have been made. I've already seen the typical "let's sell ten players" thread by one of our many resident feckwits. It's genuinely not that bad, really. I mean, we're shite, and we were absolutely pathetic tonight. But things will sort themselves out. Getting all worked up about it increasingly feels like a waste of valuable time.
I'm sure some grand observations have been made. I've already seen the typical "let's sell ten players" thread by one of our many resident feckwits. It's genuinely not that bad, really. I mean, we're shite, and we were absolutely pathetic tonight. But things will sort themselves out. Getting all worked up about it increasingly feels like a waste of valuable time.
Last FA Cup game at the Boleyn*, last Premier League game at the Boleyn*, last thrown in at the Boleyn*, it's all too much. I demand they replay the last First Division game they ever had at the Boleyn* from pre-1992. They should have carried on until someone got a last hattrick at the Boleyn*. Come on, behead some royalty there, last beheaded wife of Monarch at Boleyn*. I want my nostalgia over-sentimental & over-stated dammit.
Interestingly, I'm told that only one major trophy was ever presented in 111 years at Upton Park. Manchester United winning the 1967 Division 1 Championship.
Also, other teams who moved grounds without such stupid overblown hysteria:
* Otherwise known, since the year dot as Upton Park
Interestingly, I'm told that only one major trophy was ever presented in 111 years at Upton Park. Manchester United winning the 1967 Division 1 Championship.
Also, other teams who moved grounds without such stupid overblown hysteria:
* Otherwise known, since the year dot as Upton Park
That 130 year old woman there supporting West Ham would have put in more of a shift than Ander.
We had prob our worst game plan ever, constantly foul this team of large players who are good attacking the ball in the air, with Payet having amongst the better set piece delivery around.
Just no discipline at all, Smalling seemed to think clamping himself onto Carroll's back was a good way to stop him, just ridiculous and could have easily given away a penalty or 3. Valencia just useless.
No leadership, slowest centre mid I've seen with Rooney dropping back and Schneiderlin and Carrick covering half the ground Kouyate and Noble did.
Lindgard off the bench as we wasted the rest of our money. At least Fellaini would have gone down fighting in a flurry of elbows, pushes and aggression, nobody else brought that intensity to match West Ham.
Disgusts me to see us allow them to bully us and outfight us on the pitch after their fans did that to us pre match. Just no character at all in the team. A year out of the spotlight and no European football might be the best thing for us, the only thing we have going for us are a brilliant goal keeper and a few young players, rebuilding a team around these players under less pressure may be the only way for us.
We had prob our worst game plan ever, constantly foul this team of large players who are good attacking the ball in the air, with Payet having amongst the better set piece delivery around.
Just no discipline at all, Smalling seemed to think clamping himself onto Carroll's back was a good way to stop him, just ridiculous and could have easily given away a penalty or 3. Valencia just useless.
No leadership, slowest centre mid I've seen with Rooney dropping back and Schneiderlin and Carrick covering half the ground Kouyate and Noble did.
Lindgard off the bench as we wasted the rest of our money. At least Fellaini would have gone down fighting in a flurry of elbows, pushes and aggression, nobody else brought that intensity to match West Ham.
Disgusts me to see us allow them to bully us and outfight us on the pitch after their fans did that to us pre match. Just no character at all in the team. A year out of the spotlight and no European football might be the best thing for us, the only thing we have going for us are a brilliant goal keeper and a few young players, rebuilding a team around these players under less pressure may be the only way for us.
They're very good at winning fouls around the box to be fair.
Thought a lot of them were pretty cheap tbh but your right, we should have been much, much more wary of giving away fouls. Especially after the first fa cup leg
Is there anyone left peddling the myth about us being good defensively? Someone was arguing the case a few weeks ago.
It's so easy for teams to psych themselves up to play us because it's still seen as a big game but there's everything up for grabs if you come at us and play a line deep enough to halt our attack every time.
We haven't split teams apart on the break properly for years and yet it regularly happens to us.
No footballing intelligence, no purpose, nowhere near enough quality. No wonder there's no fire in the way they play when they're lacking those.
My favourite bit tonight was when Carrick got the ball at the half way line and could've started some quick, decisive passing off but rolled it to the side instead to Rojo, who softly passed it to Rooney, who then somehow miscontrolled it despite a toddler being more than capable. They then scored their winner.
The other highlight was not managing to get it out of our own half for 3.45 minutes of the 4 minutes of injury time against a team defending a one goal lead. If that was us we'd be hanging on for dear life as the ball careers off every piece of woodwork.
We need some big changes if we want to improve, and that can only start with the manager.
We don't need to get rid of loads of players. We need a first team.
A note to end on - 85 mins, 3 attempts vs their 20. Shite.
It's so easy for teams to psych themselves up to play us because it's still seen as a big game but there's everything up for grabs if you come at us and play a line deep enough to halt our attack every time.
We haven't split teams apart on the break properly for years and yet it regularly happens to us.
No footballing intelligence, no purpose, nowhere near enough quality. No wonder there's no fire in the way they play when they're lacking those.
My favourite bit tonight was when Carrick got the ball at the half way line and could've started some quick, decisive passing off but rolled it to the side instead to Rojo, who softly passed it to Rooney, who then somehow miscontrolled it despite a toddler being more than capable. They then scored their winner.
The other highlight was not managing to get it out of our own half for 3.45 minutes of the 4 minutes of injury time against a team defending a one goal lead. If that was us we'd be hanging on for dear life as the ball careers off every piece of woodwork.
We need some big changes if we want to improve, and that can only start with the manager.
We don't need to get rid of loads of players. We need a first team.
A note to end on - 85 mins, 3 attempts vs their 20. Shite.
So I was having my birthday meal, receiving updates on my phone. Gutted when we went 1-0 down, and absolutely thrilled when we went 1-1 then 2-1 up. No idea how we played - but I felt full of joy. 10 minutes to go and we bottle it.
I just don't understand. I've now given up. I genuinely don't give a flying shit right now about the Bournemouth game or the FA Cup final. I've never felt more of a "shit fan" in my life time but I genuinely do not give a shit. I really hate United right now. I hate everything about it. The manager, the squad, the way the club is run. It's just shit.
I just don't understand. I've now given up. I genuinely don't give a flying shit right now about the Bournemouth game or the FA Cup final. I've never felt more of a "shit fan" in my life time but I genuinely do not give a shit. I really hate United right now. I hate everything about it. The manager, the squad, the way the club is run. It's just shit.
Happy Birthday.
Happy birthday.
Feck it dude, Happy Birthday. Lash some whiskey into ya and you'll be ok (maybe)
If we just look through our team and pick out the ones who have no business playing at a top European club (in the first team), there's barely anyone left, and the likes of Rojo, Valencia, Fellaini, Lingard etc, don't even belong in a club struggling to make top 4.
Hugely disappointing but not surprising in the slightest. West Ham pressed us and we couldn't deal with it at all, they could have scored 5 or 6, we were pathetic and even if we win the FA Cup it won't make up for the shower or shite that we have been served this season.
Oh well, I suppose it would have been rude of us to ruin West Hams big day. Their fans bottling the teams coach before the game was disgusting behaviour, almost as bad as us bottling the chance to be in the Champions League next season. How can we attract the top players we need when we can't even offer them the chance to play in Europes top competition?
Oh well, I suppose it would have been rude of us to ruin West Hams big day. Their fans bottling the teams coach before the game was disgusting behaviour, almost as bad as us bottling the chance to be in the Champions League next season. How can we attract the top players we need when we can't even offer them the chance to play in Europes top competition?
what VDO?
Desperately disappointing but not really a surprise. We had a good opportunity and we've thrown it away.
Result: Rubbish, basically really just poor. Swansea need to beat city now which won't happen and I'd be shocked if we win our last two games anyway to be honest. I think it's going to look like a fitting end to another horror season.
Performance: Again, shocking. We did well not to be about three down at half time if anything. Tonight was always going to be a match where West Ham flew out all guns blazing. I do honestly really think Van Gaal's lack of adaptability will cost him his job come the summer. The team should have been set up to nullify West ham, not necessarily in terms of the line-up, but the mentality.
We should have started the match with every man behind the ball. We started off with Rashford and Martial and Herrera just jogging about keeping shape, that's never going to be effective against a team starting with so much energy.
We needed every single player coming out fighting and getting themselves about. Instead we failed to do that and went behind as a result of that.
After somehow managing to turn it around we then went back to that vegetative state of looking like we had already won.
Amount of silly free kicks just given away for no reason whatsoever: We have been the kings of this throughout the season. The amount of silly, needless free kicks we've managed to give away is astonishing. But, to be 2-1 up against West Ham with such little time left and to be just chopping down players is a joke. They must, must have one of the tallest sides in the league. Along with Payet whipping in excellent balls it just made sense to not keep going to ground and giving away silly free kicks when there was no danger.
Lack of a coherent defensive unit, particularly for any set piece: This is the killer, this here is the main reason we lost in my humble opinion. Typically you either man mark (each man put on an opposition player) or you zonal mark (each man defends an area of the pitch) We seem to do neither. What we do is stand about in the box, whilst POTY Smalling attempts to grapple anyone within a 2 metre vicinity. I'm a huge admirer of Blind, wherever he plays, but tonight he was shocking. I'm sure it will be looked at as he's too small to be a centre back and all that, but that's not the problem. The problem tonight for Blind was that for every set piece he had no idea who or what he was marking. Now, it's easy to point pitchforks at Van Gaal and say well he should be showing blind where to stand and what to do, which in fairness he should. Blind however, is a player with years of experience, at centre back and left back, who has won is it 4 Eridivise titles? He should know full well who he should be marking, where he should be standing and how he should be attacking the ball. The simple fact that two seasons into Van Gaal's reign and he hasn't got a coherent defensive unit who know what to do and where to be for set pieces shows his ineptitude, for me at least.
Lack of a leader figure: We simply don't have a proper leader on the pitch, the closest we have to leaders in the side are Martial and De Gea. They don't necessarily lead in the sense of communication, but they lead by example in terms of playing well in the big matches. In fairness, I'd say Mata also has this quality, perhaps not in a sense of scoring lots of goals or making lots of saves, but he runs and runs and runs, you never see him standing around when we don't have the ball. He's always back at rb if he's been played on the wing helping Valencia or whoever is there out.
Rooney, bless him, is clearly not captain material. He spends more time having a moan at the ref than he does encouraging our players.
In the summer, when hopefully a new manager comes in, I hope he gives the captaincy to someone like De Gea or even Mata, they simply deserve it more.
Does this match show Rooney isn't the midfield maestro people hoped he would be? I'd say without a shadow of a doubt yes, either play him up front or as a second striker or don't pick him at all. He doesn't look anything like a midfielder because he simply isn't one.
Mata getting back into some form? I've called Mata on here probably more than any other player. But in the past few games he's really upped it a gear or two. He's getting back amongst the goals and the assists and he just looks slick again, both with his passing and his movement. Hopefully he can keep it up, have a great Euros and step into next season on a high.
Looking forward, are people now worried about the final? I certainly am, at least. Under Van Gaal all expectations and confidence have been drained from me. We used to be arrogant because we were the best, now we look a million miles away from being the best. Would it be harsh to look for an interim for the final? Cantona would certainly be exciting.
Performance: Again, shocking. We did well not to be about three down at half time if anything. Tonight was always going to be a match where West Ham flew out all guns blazing. I do honestly really think Van Gaal's lack of adaptability will cost him his job come the summer. The team should have been set up to nullify West ham, not necessarily in terms of the line-up, but the mentality.
We should have started the match with every man behind the ball. We started off with Rashford and Martial and Herrera just jogging about keeping shape, that's never going to be effective against a team starting with so much energy.
We needed every single player coming out fighting and getting themselves about. Instead we failed to do that and went behind as a result of that.
After somehow managing to turn it around we then went back to that vegetative state of looking like we had already won.
Amount of silly free kicks just given away for no reason whatsoever: We have been the kings of this throughout the season. The amount of silly, needless free kicks we've managed to give away is astonishing. But, to be 2-1 up against West Ham with such little time left and to be just chopping down players is a joke. They must, must have one of the tallest sides in the league. Along with Payet whipping in excellent balls it just made sense to not keep going to ground and giving away silly free kicks when there was no danger.
Lack of a coherent defensive unit, particularly for any set piece: This is the killer, this here is the main reason we lost in my humble opinion. Typically you either man mark (each man put on an opposition player) or you zonal mark (each man defends an area of the pitch) We seem to do neither. What we do is stand about in the box, whilst POTY Smalling attempts to grapple anyone within a 2 metre vicinity. I'm a huge admirer of Blind, wherever he plays, but tonight he was shocking. I'm sure it will be looked at as he's too small to be a centre back and all that, but that's not the problem. The problem tonight for Blind was that for every set piece he had no idea who or what he was marking. Now, it's easy to point pitchforks at Van Gaal and say well he should be showing blind where to stand and what to do, which in fairness he should. Blind however, is a player with years of experience, at centre back and left back, who has won is it 4 Eridivise titles? He should know full well who he should be marking, where he should be standing and how he should be attacking the ball. The simple fact that two seasons into Van Gaal's reign and he hasn't got a coherent defensive unit who know what to do and where to be for set pieces shows his ineptitude, for me at least.
Lack of a leader figure: We simply don't have a proper leader on the pitch, the closest we have to leaders in the side are Martial and De Gea. They don't necessarily lead in the sense of communication, but they lead by example in terms of playing well in the big matches. In fairness, I'd say Mata also has this quality, perhaps not in a sense of scoring lots of goals or making lots of saves, but he runs and runs and runs, you never see him standing around when we don't have the ball. He's always back at rb if he's been played on the wing helping Valencia or whoever is there out.
Rooney, bless him, is clearly not captain material. He spends more time having a moan at the ref than he does encouraging our players.
In the summer, when hopefully a new manager comes in, I hope he gives the captaincy to someone like De Gea or even Mata, they simply deserve it more.
Does this match show Rooney isn't the midfield maestro people hoped he would be? I'd say without a shadow of a doubt yes, either play him up front or as a second striker or don't pick him at all. He doesn't look anything like a midfielder because he simply isn't one.
Mata getting back into some form? I've called Mata on here probably more than any other player. But in the past few games he's really upped it a gear or two. He's getting back amongst the goals and the assists and he just looks slick again, both with his passing and his movement. Hopefully he can keep it up, have a great Euros and step into next season on a high.
Looking forward, are people now worried about the final? I certainly am, at least. Under Van Gaal all expectations and confidence have been drained from me. We used to be arrogant because we were the best, now we look a million miles away from being the best. Would it be harsh to look for an interim for the final? Cantona would certainly be exciting.
I doubt Smalling. Sorry guys, I just don't rate him as a quality defender
Good post.United sealed the 67 league by beating them 6-1 too.Back when we had men!Last FA Cup game at the Boleyn*, last Premier League game at the Boleyn*, last thrown in at the Boleyn*, it's all too much. I demand they replay the last First Division game they ever had at the Boleyn* from pre-1992. They should have carried on until someone got a last hattrick at the Boleyn*. Come on, behead some royalty there, last beheaded wife of Monarch at Boleyn*. I want my nostalgia over-sentimental & over-stated dammit.
Interestingly, I'm told that only one major trophy was ever presented in 111 years at Upton Park. Manchester United winning the 1967 Division 1 Championship.
Also, other teams who moved grounds without such stupid overblown hysteria:
* Otherwise known, since the year dot as Upton Park
Can't wait for LvG to leave.. Nothing good to say after this.. Martial, Rashford and ddg the only really positive thing I can take from our spell under that idiot..
Yes. I can confirm that Whiskey & United based anger go perfectly well together. Nothing bad ever happened when those two were combined.
I don't get why he started with Blind as CB, I know he has been all season and in some games I get it but if there is one thing he is not good at than it is defending long balls. If there is one thing you need to do versus West Ham, it is to defend long balls.
Why didn't he just start with Smalling and Fosu at CB and maybay put Blind instead of Rojo on LB because Rojo has been out of form for a very long time ?
Atleast when we got up 1-2 he could have made some changes to make us more solid at the back, you know to see it through for the remaining 10 minutes or so that were on the clock. But no he did nothing...
Why didn't he just start with Smalling and Fosu at CB and maybay put Blind instead of Rojo on LB because Rojo has been out of form for a very long time ?
Atleast when we got up 1-2 he could have made some changes to make us more solid at the back, you know to see it through for the remaining 10 minutes or so that were on the clock. But no he did nothing...
fecking mobile phones...the scourge of the 21st century!
Thanks for sharing.... I see nothing wrong in that. Maybe just their way coping under that stress. Anyway, I don't need to use that to criticise our team tonight.
Was at the game tonight. Obvious what happened: Fact is West Ham wanted to win the game more than our team did. And that is a very very sad realisation for me. West Ham deserved to win tonight and they also deserve their fans. Our team does not deserve our fans. Its all falling to bits.
We got blown away by the emotions of West Ham from starting whistle and some of our players like Schneiderlin and Rojo were affected by the atmosphere. I think that was always going to happen no matter who played tonight and West Ham should have won the game within 30 mins.
Rooney and Martial aside, our team was very poor. Disorganised at set piece defending, slow and careless distribution from the back, lethargic in midfield. Poor Rashford and Martial fed off scraps and scored when they got the ball.
Last edited:
Had a good six month period but that's it. Probably the most over-rated United player currently. Only Martial and De Gea true United quality, apart from the kids. The rest either just not up to the job or not consistent enough.
Fantastic match, LvG is such a fantastic manager, hope he stays til the day I die.
I can almost forgive how shit we were. What I really can't get over is the stupidity to give away so many cheap free kicks around our box. It was suicide, they'd won every header all game and could've scored from every cross. Our absolutely braindead players then proceed to give away a cheap free kick every 2 minutes for the entirety of the 2nd half like it wasn't going to cost us dearly.
I agree. Squad player at best for the level we aspire to be at.
We made it easy for him with so many stupid fouls, but feck me he was giving them a free kick for anything also.
Mike Dean rarely gives us a fecking thing, Scouse cnut.
Really good post. Your first sentence though sounds like we still have 2 matches left, we only have Bournemouth at home.
Thankyou! It's funny you say that actually, I was going to put something like "I'd be shocked if we win our last two matches anyway to be honest (last league match and cup final) But I was expecting people to complain and say everyone knows which two matches we have left, given its a united forum.
Thankyou! It's funny you say that actually, I was going to put something like "I'd be shocked if we win our last two matches anyway to be honest (last league match and cup final) But I was expecting people to complain and say everyone knows which two matches we have left, given its a united forum.
I agree with what you said about Mata, I actually just posted similar in his performance thread. Thought he certainly merited starting. Which is more than I can say for his best pal (though he did win the ball back for our second).
I can't believe a club the size of Man United relies on a player like Fellaini so much but my god do we miss him in games like today. Feckin eejit throwing elbows around the place.
I've always wanted to see Bournemouth play at Old Trafford, I have been to see them a few times, my uncle lives there. But my god, both of our games against them have come after the most miserable 3-2 defeats that fecked us up for the CL in different ways, and it's hard now as it was then to care about the next match.
Even a point would have been something, to keep the pressure on City.
So....
To sum up..
We have a manager, who hasn't a clue
We have an assistant manager who is more interested in his next female conquest.
The man to the right of LvG appears to be more trusted than Giggs but only writes down data on a computer
We have Ed, stuttering about the place as always.
We have Fergie, giving it large about Giggs, then distancing himself from Giggs and then being "secretly" photographed with Poch.
All the while, our team shits itself yet again. Including our so called "characters" Rooney and Carrick.
The only one person on that pitch, fit to represent United tonight, was Martial. De Gea too but, he had no chance with the goals.
We are a disgrace to the name Manchester United, both on and off the pitch.
3 shots on goal. feck off
To sum up..
We have a manager, who hasn't a clue
We have an assistant manager who is more interested in his next female conquest.
The man to the right of LvG appears to be more trusted than Giggs but only writes down data on a computer
We have Ed, stuttering about the place as always.
We have Fergie, giving it large about Giggs, then distancing himself from Giggs and then being "secretly" photographed with Poch.
All the while, our team shits itself yet again. Including our so called "characters" Rooney and Carrick.
The only one person on that pitch, fit to represent United tonight, was Martial. De Gea too but, he had no chance with the goals.
We are a disgrace to the name Manchester United, both on and off the pitch.
3 shots on goal. feck off
We've been doing it all season, most fouls in the league I'd imagine that's the first time a United side has done that.
Thought Ander and Rooney were both lucky not to go in the book earlier to be honest, our players jusy don't seem to have the body strength to successfully tackle big strong players like Kouyate, Antonio etc and resorted to fouling.
Think it was 2 actually, that's if Martials 2nd was even a shot, think it was a cross
Player Ratings
Total Average Rating
Highest Rated Player
Lowest Rated Player
Compiled from 442 ratings.
Score Predictions
286,84,94
- Man Utd win
- West Ham win
- Draw
Detailed Results
- 28% West Ham 1:2 Man Utd
- 20% West Ham 0:1 Man Utd
- 13% West Ham 1:1 Man Utd
- 6% West Ham 2:1 Man Utd
- 6% West Ham 0:2 Man Utd
- 5% West Ham 2:0 Man Utd
- 4% West Ham 0:0 Man Utd
- 3% West Ham 2:2 Man Utd
- 3% West Ham 1:3 Man Utd
- 3% West Ham 1:0 Man Utd
- 2% West Ham 2:3 Man Utd
- 2% West Ham 3:1 Man Utd
- 2% West Ham 0:5 Man Utd
- 1% West Ham 3:0 Man Utd
- 1% West Ham 0:3 Man Utd
- 1% West Ham 5:0 Man Utd
- 0% West Ham 1:4 Man Utd
- 0% West Ham 3:2 Man Utd
- 0% West Ham 4:5 Man Utd
- 0% West Ham 0:4 Man Utd
- 0% West Ham 4:0 Man Utd
Match Stats
- West Ham
- Man Utd
- Possession
- 41% 59%
- Shots
- 20 3
- Shots on Target
- 6 2
- Corners
- 6 2
- Fouls
- 6 18
Referee
Mike Dean
Man Utd Lineup
-
-
-
-
-
replaced by Adnan Januzaj
-
-
replaced by Jesse Lingard
-
replaced by Michael Carrick
-
-
-
