Potential Matic Replacements

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Being linked to Boubakary Soumare, DM from Lille.
 
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Watching him, i'd say he's more like a Pogba back up, rather than a Matic replacement.

Kalvin Phillips and Denis Zakaria are probably more Matic replacements, who we've been linked with recently.
Interesting, transfermarkt and whoscored have him listed as a DM.
 

Walters_19_MuFc

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Interesting, transfermarkt and whoscored have him listed as a DM.
He is a defensive midfielder, as in that's his position, just as Pogba has been playing in the number 6 role for us this season, but I wouldn't say his style is similar to Matic. Now, when I think of a Matic replacement, I think of a ball winner. Well, what he used to be anyway. That's not how I'd categorise Soumare. Actually he'd probably be more categorised into a box to box/deep-lying playmaker than someone who breaks up play.

If you look at his midfield partner for Lille, Benjamin Andre, he is clearly their ball winner in the team. So far this season he has averaged 4.1 tackles and 2.3 interceptions, in comparison to Soumare's 1.1 and 0.8, respectively.

As I said before, if we get Soumare, I can imagine it'll be to be back up to someone like Pogba, whilst focusing on more of a ball winning midfielder to replace Matic.
 

Bestietom

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He is a defensive midfielder, as in that's his position, just as Pogba has been playing in the number 6 role for us this season, but I wouldn't say his style is similar to Matic. Now, when I think of a Matic replacement, I think of a ball winner. Well, what he used to be anyway. That's not how I'd categorise Soumare. Actually he'd probably be more categorised into a box to box/deep-lying playmaker than someone who breaks up play.

If you look at his midfield partner for Lille, Benjamin Andre, he is clearly their ball winner in the team. So far this season he has averaged 4.1 tackles and 2.3 interceptions, in comparison to Soumare's 1.1 and 0.8, respectively.

As I said before, if we get Soumare, I can imagine it'll be to be back up to someone like Pogba, whilst focusing on more of a ball winning midfielder to replace Matic.
Soumare is more a box to box but can help out in defence also.
Zakaria is a more DM and ball winner, but gets booked a lot.
 

Mark Pawelek

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DMCs. All players in the list (below) have pass success rates 89% or better - apart from Phillips, who's only 81%. 3 players playing in Brazil have EU passports. So no visa issues. No fee issues because Brazilian players never transfer within Brazil for more than £20m. The only issue is they will need a couple of weeks in January off; as their season ends about 8 December. So Matic will still not be required for whole of January; we could actually sell him!
------------------------ Age -- Contracted to -------------- Opta Rating -- EU passport
Kalvin Phillips --------- 23 -- Leeds ---------- Jun-2024 -- 7.4
Bruno Guimarães --------- 21 -- Paranaense ----- Feb-2023 -- 7.1 ---------- Spanish
Gustavo Campanharo ------ 27 -- Chapecoense AF - Jun-2020 -- 6.8 ---------- Italian
Ever Banega ------------- 31 -- Sevilla -------- Jun-2020 -- 7.1
Gabriel Girotto Franco -- 27 -- Corinthians ---- Dec-2020 -- 6.8 ---------- Italian
Boubakary Soumare ------- 20 -- Lille ---------- Jun-2022 -- 6.5


All 6 are realistic. Only Phillips and Soumare are expensive since Leeds do not want to let him go. Given Phillips has a pass success rate of only 81% I wouldn't even consider him. As for the other players fans are looking at Partey, Roca, Can, Zakaria, ... you are looking at fees of £35m to £65m. Apart from Phillips and Soumare, the players on my list will cost £5m to £20m.

The reason I wouldn't consider more expensive options of Phillips, Partey, Roca, Can, Zakaria is because United need to buy at least 3 players in January:
Defensive midfield (centre); striker; attacking midfielder or winger. At least. Even if we only pay £5m for the striker (Mandzukic), it still means we miss out on the winger/attacking midfielder if we get an expensive DMC.

(Corrections in pink)
 
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Withnail

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DMCs. All players in the list (below) have pass success rates 89% or better - apart from Phillips, who's only 81%. 3 players playing in Brazil have EU passports. So no visa issues. No fee issues because Brazilian players never transfer within Brazil for more than £20m. The only issue is they will need a couple of weeks in January off; as their season ends about 8 December. So Matic will still not be required for whole of January; we could actually sell him!
------------------------ Age -- Contracted to -------------- Opta Rating -- EU passport
Kalvin Phillips --------- 23 -- Leeds ---------- Jun-2024 -- 7.4
Bruno Guimarães --------- 21 -- Paranaense ----- Feb-2023 -- 7.1 ---------- Spanish
Gustavo Campanharo ------ 27 -- Chapecoense AF - Jun-2020 -- 6.8 ---------- Italian
Ever Banega ------------- 31 -- Sevilla -------- Jun-2020 -- 7.1
Gabriel Girotto Franco -- 27 -- Corinthians ---- Dec-2020 -- 6.8 ---------- Italian
Boubakary Soumare ------- 20 -- Lille ---------- Jun-2020 -- 6.5


All 6 are realistic. Only Phillips is expensive since Leeds do not want to let him go. Given Phillips has a pass success rate of only 81% I wouldn't even consider him. As for the other players fans are looking at Partey, Roca, Can, Zakaria, ... you are looking at fees of £35m to £65m. Apart from Phillips, the players on my list will cost £5m to £20m.

I don't believe anyone over 30 or playing in Sth America at 27 is a realistic option to replace an ageing Matic.

The two young lads have apparently been scouted by United, if the rumour mill is to be believed, but having never seen them play I've don't have a view on how good they are.
However, if United come calling I can't see Soumare going for anywhere near 20m. There's always an inflated price.

I'm also not sure that you're comparing like with like when you compare a pass completion rate in the Championship with one in the Brazilian League where you get a lot more time on the ball.
 

Mark Pawelek

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I don't believe anyone over 30 or playing in Sth America at 27 is a realistic option to replace an ageing Matic.
Why not. They're stop-gaps; so that McTominay doesn't have to play in every game. Maybe in 1 or 2 years Garner will be considered physically ready. Quality in the Brazilian and Argentine leagues is better than Holland or Portugal (because the depth is greater in South America). Although, I admit, the top players are not normally any better; unless very young.

You get more time on the ball in every league on earth than the PL. So pass completion rates certainly compare well with players playing in Spain, Italy, France, Holland, Portugal.

Glad to hear we, at least, scouted Bruno Guimarães. Do you agree he'd be a big improvement on Matic. £10m to £20m is a bargain.
 

Withnail

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Why not. They're stop-gaps; so that McTominay doesn't have to play in every game. Maybe in 1 or 2 years Garner will be considered physically ready. Quality in the Brazilian and Argentine leagues is better than Holland or Portugal (because the depth is greater in South America). Although, I admit, the top players are not normally any better; unless very young.

You get more time on the ball in every league on earth than the PL. So pass completion rates certainly compare well with players playing in Spain, Italy, France, Holland, Portugal.

Glad to hear we, at least, scouted Bruno Guimarães. Do you agree he'd be a big improvement on Matic. £10m to £20m is a bargain.
No sorry, I meant Phillips and Soumare.
 

Lash

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I don't believe anyone over 30 or playing in Sth America at 27 is a realistic option to replace an ageing Matic.

The two young lads have apparently been scouted by United, if the rumour mill is to be believed, but having never seen them play I've don't have a view on how good they are.
However, if United come calling I can't see Soumare going for anywhere near 20m. There's always an inflated price.

I'm also not sure that you're comparing like with like when you compare a pass completion rate in the Championship with one in the Brazilian League where you get a lot more time on the ball.
He's in his last year of his contract, they either get a fee in Jan or lose him for nothing.
 

leges

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Eric Dier is the player we should look for as Matic’s replacement. Now that he has lost his place at Tottenham it’s the right moment to buy him, his price is much lower than before, i think about 20m, he is still 25 and can play for 5 years. Also he uses to play well as a lonely DM with two AMs.
Partey is of course a more muscular player, but i think it isn’t realistic that he will leave Atletico for a team that doesn’t play the Champions League, unless a crazy offer by Red Devils to Atletico, 80m, and a crazy salary for the footballer, and we need to focus on other positions where we lack more.
Then we already have McTominay who is developing as a muscular box to box midfielder, with him and Dier we will be very well covered at the DM position.
 
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Eric Dier is the player we should look for as Matic’s replacement. Now that he has lost his place at Tottenham it’s the right moment to buy him, his price is much lower than before, i think about 20m, he is still 25 and can play for 5 years. Also he uses to play well as a lonely DM with two AMs.
Partey is of course a more muscular player, but i think it isn’t realistic that he will leave Atletico for a team that doesn’t play the Champions League, unless a crazy offer by Red Devils to Atletico, 80m, and a crazy salary for the footballer, and we need to focus on other positions where we lack more.
Then we already have McTominay who is developing as a muscular box to box midfielder, with him and Dier we will be very well covered at the DM position.
What is it with you and Dier? :lol:

Dier is not the answer, injuries have ruined him he can barely move now.
 

Mark Pawelek

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Krystian Bielik; Polish national; age: 21; right-footed; height: 189cm; Club: Derby (Championship)
Good stats:
Pass completion: 84%
Per 90 mins:
  • Aerials Won: 3.6
  • tackles made: 3.1
  • interceptions: 1.9
  • fouls committed: 1.2
  • clearances made: 2.7
  • Average passes: 54
  • Dispossed: 0.8
  • Bad control: 1.6
Can play as DMC or CB. He can't cost that much.
 

MyOnlySolskjaer

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Krystian Bielik; Polish national; age: 21; right-footed; height: 189cm; Club: Derby (Championship)
Good stats:
Pass completion: 84%
Per 90 mins:
  • Aerials Won: 3.6
  • tackles made: 3.1
  • interceptions: 1.9
  • fouls committed: 1.2
  • clearances made: 2.7
  • Average passes: 54
  • Dispossed: 0.8
  • Bad control: 1.6
Can play as DMC or CB. He can't cost that much.
Weird I had no idea he turned into a DM/CB, I could be wrong but I recall him being a bit more offensive when at Arsenal.

I remember he got a lot of hype in the U21 tournament for his performances.
 

Scholsey2004

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DMCs. All players in the list (below) have pass success rates 89% or better - apart from Phillips, who's only 81%. 3 players playing in Brazil have EU passports. So no visa issues. No fee issues because Brazilian players never transfer within Brazil for more than £20m. The only issue is they will need a couple of weeks in January off; as their season ends about 8 December. So Matic will still not be required for whole of January; we could actually sell him!
------------------------ Age -- Contracted to -------------- Opta Rating -- EU passport
Kalvin Phillips --------- 23 -- Leeds ---------- Jun-2024 -- 7.4
Bruno Guimarães --------- 21 -- Paranaense ----- Feb-2023 -- 7.1 ---------- Spanish
Gustavo Campanharo ------ 27 -- Chapecoense AF - Jun-2020 -- 6.8 ---------- Italian
Ever Banega ------------- 31 -- Sevilla -------- Jun-2020 -- 7.1
Gabriel Girotto Franco -- 27 -- Corinthians ---- Dec-2020 -- 6.8 ---------- Italian
Boubakary Soumare ------- 20 -- Lille ---------- Jun-2022 -- 6.5


All 6 are realistic. Only Phillips and Soumare are expensive since Leeds do not want to let him go. Given Phillips has a pass success rate of only 81% I wouldn't even consider him. As for the other players fans are looking at Partey, Roca, Can, Zakaria, ... you are looking at fees of £35m to £65m. Apart from Phillips and Soumare, the players on my list will cost £5m to £20m.

The reason I wouldn't consider more expensive options of Phillips, Partey, Roca, Can, Zakaria is because United need to buy at least 3 players in January:
Defensive midfield (centre); striker; attacking midfielder or winger. At least. Even if we only pay £5m for the striker (Mandzukic), it still means we miss out on the winger/attacking midfielder if we get an expensive DMC.

(Corrections in pink)
A players pass completion is entirely subjective on the type of passes he's playing, the technical quality of his team mates etc. Chris smalling is operating at over 90% in Italy right now and we know he's no pirlo. Kalvin Phillips is a very strong passer of the ball.
 

Kingslayer18

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Carrick was actually fantastic at protecting the back four. Sure he didnt run all over the place like Kante, for example, but he read the game extremely well and was always high up in the interception chart.

Its very rare you find those type of players, though. However, to answer your question, you get a box to box destroyer next to them. Someone who is solid defensively, but also decent going forward. Kante, Allan, McTominay, Khedira, Henderson, etc.

Examples of teams who play with a double pivot and have a deep lying playmaker with a destroyer are:

Jorginho and Kante
De Jong and De Roon
Delaney and Witsel
Verratti and Gueye

That's a few I know off the top of my head. Guess most teams play with a midfield three, but to me, I would personally prefer that format if we're going to play with a double pivot.

Ole has tried this with Pogba and McTominay but it hasnt quite worked because Pogba's not the type to sit and dictate the game.

Im personally not sure what player could get to be our deeplying playmaker, but its certainly something we need. Then if Pogba goes, we replace him with a number 10.

Attacking Midfielder
DLP - McTominay

As you say, those double pivots you mentioned generally play as part of a 3 man midfield. If we assume Ole will go back to the 4-3-3 system, where he had his best run last season, we should get Fabian Ruiz or Sandro Tonali as the deep-lying playmaker and Thomas Partey as the box to box destoyer. That's assuming Pogba stays, which i think is possible if you can sell him on the idea that we're going to bring in quality players in and not the dross like Longstaff that we've been linked with. Then you have McTominay, Fred, Perriera and Garner as squad back-ups; where their talent level belongs. If Pogba goes, then there's numerous options in Maddison, Odegaard, Kai Havertz or Sergej-Milinkovic-Savic. If Pogba goes, the incoming fee will mean we can have a low net spend whilst rebuilding our midfield.
 

SadlerMUFC

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We should be making a bid for McGinn from Villa and Neves from Wolves. Forget foreign players who have to adjust to the premier league. These two are tried, tested and true, at the right age (25 and 22) and are most likely attainable...
 

Mark Pawelek

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A players pass completion is entirely subjective on the type of passes he's playing, the technical quality of his team mates etc. Chris smalling is operating at over 90% in Italy right now and we know he's no pirlo. Kalvin Phillips is a very strong passer of the ball.
I'm happy with Kalvin Phillips; not happy paying more than £25m for a Championship player;
Which is why I think Krystian Bielik is a better alternative. United don't need to get the best #6, nor a worldie because we have some really good youth prospects; some of them potential worldies. But United need a stop gap and reinforcement now; next summer is too late. Bielik already looks better than Fred and Matic. That'll do me.
 

goatmeister

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Stop messing about and get Ndidi. Set him up as anchor and let the CM go to work. Leicester will force United to pay through their nose though.
 

davidmichael

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Stop messing about and get Ndidi. Set him up as anchor and let the CM go to work. Leicester will force United to pay through their nose though.
Let’s go big and sign N’Didi, Maddison and Chilwell as all three would walk into our team. The whole Leicester set up over the past few years really is a shining example of how our scouting network should be.
 

Drz

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DMCs. All players in the list (below) have pass success rates 89% or better - apart from Phillips, who's only 81%. 3 players playing in Brazil have EU passports. So no visa issues. No fee issues because Brazilian players never transfer within Brazil for more than £20m. The only issue is they will need a couple of weeks in January off; as their season ends about 8 December. So Matic will still not be required for whole of January; we could actually sell him!
------------------------ Age -- Contracted to -------------- Opta Rating -- EU passport
Kalvin Phillips --------- 23 -- Leeds ---------- Jun-2024 -- 7.4
Bruno Guimarães --------- 21 -- Paranaense ----- Feb-2023 -- 7.1 ---------- Spanish
Gustavo Campanharo ------ 27 -- Chapecoense AF - Jun-2020 -- 6.8 ---------- Italian
Ever Banega ------------- 31 -- Sevilla -------- Jun-2020 -- 7.1
Gabriel Girotto Franco -- 27 -- Corinthians ---- Dec-2020 -- 6.8 ---------- Italian
Boubakary Soumare ------- 20 -- Lille ---------- Jun-2022 -- 6.5


All 6 are realistic. Only Phillips and Soumare are expensive since Leeds do not want to let him go. Given Phillips has a pass success rate of only 81% I wouldn't even consider him. As for the other players fans are looking at Partey, Roca, Can, Zakaria, ... you are looking at fees of £35m to £65m. Apart from Phillips and Soumare, the players on my list will cost £5m to £20m.

The reason I wouldn't consider more expensive options of Phillips, Partey, Roca, Can, Zakaria is because United need to buy at least 3 players in January:
Defensive midfield (centre); striker; attacking midfielder or winger. At least. Even if we only pay £5m for the striker (Mandzukic), it still means we miss out on the winger/attacking midfielder if we get an expensive DMC.

(Corrections in pink)
Wow that's some work put-in there. Thanks.
A good chance to check-out Soumare tonight playing @ the Mestalla in the Champions League. Lille are total underdogs though so he will be up against it.
 

Jericholyte2

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Let’s go big and sign N’Didi, Maddison and Chilwell as all three would walk into our team. The whole Leicester set up over the past few years really is a shining example of how our scouting network should be.
Absolutely, we quit dicking around and pay what’s needed for three top class players that improve nearly every area of our squad.

Circa +/- £200m for these three then Sancho.
 

Macedonian Red

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There is a rumours that Matic want to leave in January which probably means we will sign a player in midfield. But which one?
 

Robertd0803

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Watching him, i'd say he's more like a Pogba back up, rather than a Matic replacement.

Kalvin Phillips and Denis Zakaria are probably more Matic replacements, who we've been linked with recently.
I read this as Kevin Phillips and thought we were well and truly fecked.
 

troylocker

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I put my faith in McTominator and Fred 2.0 for now, at least until the summer window, and would much rather improve the striker and RW/CAM positions first. Our need to score more goals should be priority number one.
And if we are going for a CDM though, it should be someone that is better than what we have, that takes command of the midfield and the spaces in front of the defensive line and isn't afraid to shout commands and messages to his teammates. It cannot be any 27+ year old Spanish, Portoguese or Italian speaking guy who doesn't speak English. It isn't anyone from the Championship, Newcastle, Burnley or Aston Villa either, 'cause there is no one there who can elevate us to a title challenging team, not yet anyway. We should be looking for the next Frenkie'ish talent, but not in January.
 

Bestietom

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As you say, those double pivots you mentioned generally play as part of a 3 man midfield. If we assume Ole will go back to the 4-3-3 system, where he had his best run last season, we should get Fabian Ruiz or Sandro Tonali as the deep-lying playmaker and Thomas Partey as the box to box destoyer. That's assuming Pogba stays, which i think is possible if you can sell him on the idea that we're going to bring in quality players in and not the dross like Longstaff that we've been linked with. Then you have McTominay, Fred, Perriera and Garner as squad back-ups; where their talent level belongs. If Pogba goes, then there's numerous options in Maddison, Odegaard, Kai Havertz or Sergej-Milinkovic-Savic. If Pogba goes, the incoming fee will mean we can have a low net spend whilst rebuilding our midfield.
Yes, Ole prefers the 4-3-3 system but because we are so thin in the midfield department he plays the 4-2-3-1 system. Tonali would be best as the deep lying playmaker with McTominay as destroyer and Pogba roaming behind front 3. If not Havertz.
 

Mark Pawelek

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I'm happy with the players the club have supposedly been looking at: Phillips, Zakaria, or Camavinga. Althought No Can do please, nor Soumare much. The list below is sorted by a derived stat which calculates their overall contribution (attack & defense).
Of the available players, I like the look of
Matheus Henrique. Brazilian with no EU passport. Especially like how he (& Zakaria) dribble at the opposition defence from midfield.
Kalvin Phillips. 4 tackles per game. Plus interceptions & clearances. Good key pass stat.
Krystian Bielik. Ex-Arsenal youth. Converted from AM (like Matic was).
Eduardo Camavinga. Only just turned 17, but a regular for Rennes!
Denis Zakaria.
Bruno Guimarães. Probably more of a box-to-box than DCM. But good value like Henrique.

 

Walters_19_MuFc

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Yes, Ole prefers the 4-3-3 system but because we are so thin in the midfield department he plays the 4-2-3-1 system. Tonali would be best as the deep lying playmaker with McTominay as destroyer and Pogba roaming behind front 3. If not Havertz.
I'm not sure he does prefer a 433. He played a 4231 af Molde and Cardiff.

We also had everyone fit at the start of the campaign and in pre season, and Ole opted for a 4231, so going forward I believe that's what he wants to play, which can be successful providing we have the right players.

Although i've heard rave reviews, Im not familiar with Tonali, but a deeplying playmaker is certainly what we need.