Potential Matic Replacements

Jibbs

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Sander Berge.
 

onemanarmy

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Sander Berge.
Too soon I think. He should go to some German team in the mould of Frankfurt, Gladbach... to help his development and take the next step. Players like Tielemans and De Bruyne dominated the Belgian league and even they struggled when they left the league.
 

Cassidy

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Too soon I think. He should go to some German team in the mould of Frankfurt, Gladbach... to help his development and take the next step. Players like Tielemans and De Bruyne dominated the Belgian league and even they struggled when they left the league.
De Bruyne didn't struggle really
 

enwhykiid

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Stop messing about and get Ndidi. Set him up as anchor and let the CM go to work. Leicester will force United to pay through their nose though.
Would be the ideal candidate, but we can't keep giving Leicester truckloads for their players. Eventually they'll catch up to us monetarily
 

Alabaster Codify7

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Would be the ideal candidate, but we can't keep giving Leicester truckloads for their players. Eventually they'll catch up to us monetarily

Someone like Ndidi would deliver but.....and yeah this is unintentionally baiting in the fan-club......we would still need to upgrade on McTominay. Scott currently plays a weird hybrid role of a CDM and a number 8, without committing fully to either. His efforts are admirable and he's doing a solid, professional job but a midfield with a CDM like Ndidi and a creative, flair #10 would need a more well-rounded number 8 in my opinion. We'd need someone with box to box qualities who is also technically very good and quite attack minded and Scott isn't that type of player.

In my eyes, Scott would be the ideal substitute midfielder.
 

JMack1234

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McTominay is already the official Matic replacement.

However we don't have any depth in midfield so if he goes in January we have to bring in a no. 2 defensive midfielder.
 

DarkRed

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I'm not sure he does prefer a 433. He played a 4231 af Molde and Cardiff.
We also had everyone fit at the start of the campaign and in pre season, and Ole opted for a 4231, so going forward I believe that's what he wants to play, which can be successful providing we have the right players.
Although i've heard rave reviews, Im not familiar with Tonali, but a deeplying playmaker is certainly what we need.
But if you play 4-2-3-1 with an AM let's say Pogba instead of a 10, what will actually be the big difference from 4-3-3 ?
 

NoPace

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It's probably too early to call after a lot of 20 minutes cameos but it seems like we should have bought Praet for 18M instead of letting Leicester do it. He seems to be 2-footed, decent vision for a creative pass, is aggressive and we'd be able to rotate him, Fred and McTominay behind Pogba this year. 25 year old, in the Belgian team and has good experience in a big league. Very low floor for 18M.

Probably not going to become a top 10 midfielder in the world, but I wonder where we'd be with him in the middle and similarly solid, B+/A- type signings in the 20-30M bracket at LB and a #10, and guys like Lingard, Mata (great player in his day obviously), Jones or Smalling, Rojo, Young, Shaw and Matic all playing elsewhere on permanent deals this season. We'd probably have seen someone from the U23 team have to cover a couple games at CB but it wouldn't be the end of the world.
 

AkaAkuma

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Too soon I think. He should go to some German team in the mould of Frankfurt, Gladbach... to help his development and take the next step. Players like Tielemans and De Bruyne dominated the Belgian league and even they struggled when they left the league.
Ndidi made the step up from Genk and now is classed as the elite target for the role.
 

Walters_19_MuFc

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But if you play 4-2-3-1 with an AM let's say Pogba instead of a 10, what will actually be the big difference from 4-3-3 ?
Well when we play a 433, we play with two number 8's with Pogba, more often that not, on the left side.

In a 4231, Pogba would be situated right behind the forward, with Fred and McTominay directly behind him.

Pogba McTominay
Fred

Vs

Pogba
Fred McTominay

I would personally play a 4222 when Pogba gets back.

Rashford Martial
Pogba James
Fred McTominay
Shaw Maguire Lindelof Wan-Bissaka
De Gea
 

DarkRed

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Well when we play a 433, we play with two number 8's with Pogba, more often that not, on the left side.

In a 4231, Pogba would be situated right behind the forward, with Fred and McTominay directly behind him.

Pogba McTominay
Fred

Vs

Pogba
Fred McTominay

I would personally play a 4222 when Pogba gets back.

Rashford Martial
Pogba James
Fred McTominay
Shaw Maguire Lindelof Wan-Bissaka
De Gea
In the last two games I have seen Rashford dropping into midfield and plays long ball to fullbacks or James, so it will definitely not going to be 4-2-2-2
 

Walters_19_MuFc

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In the last two games I have seen Rashford dropping into midfield and plays long ball to fullbacks or James, so it will definitely not going to be 4-2-2-2
Thats not what I think we'll go with. I said its something I would do. That said, Rashford could still do drop in to midfield when playing as a striker.
 

Johan07

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But if you play 4-2-3-1 with an AM let's say Pogba instead of a 10, what will actually be the big difference from 4-3-3 ?
Not much at all. FM with all its different formations has fecked up these types of discussions. People weigh much more importance into it than they should not taking into account what those setups actually mean.
To begin with: 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 are defensive acronyms. It describes how we press the ball in formation. It has nothing to do with how you play in possession offensively. No team actually plays 4-3-3 in possession if you look at the players actual positions.
This idea that Pogba should be playing as "No 10", just means that that he would start pressing behind the No 9 tactically.
Pogba will always be a player that has to have more players in front of him than behind him in possession. Its his strength. This idea that we should push him up behind a single forward in possession its not going to happen. Where we put him defensively when pressing is another matter.
 

Ekeke

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Exequiel Palacios. Tackles, passes the ball around often and well. Can shoot from distance. A bit like a Carrick

Wouldnt be physical as physical as Matic, but we have McTominay and Pogba in there which is more than enough physical force
 

zenith

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Pay them what they want and bring him in, would be a fantastic signing.
I really don't think things work that way. Besides, right now no player from there has a good reason to come here, apart from money.
 

M Bison

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I really don't think things work that way. Besides, right now no player from there has a good reason to come here, apart from money.
I was being flippant, obviously there's a lot more to signing a player than one club paying another club a fee.
 

leges

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Teun Koopmeiners is a player we should look for. He isn't exactly a Matic replacement but he is a very good deep-lying playmaker, that is what we need. He is also a good penalty taker and free kicks taker.
A midfield like this:

Maddison
Koopmeiners - McTominay

would be very balanced as we would have a double pivot with a deep-lying playmaker and a box to box destroyer and then an advanced midfielder.
 

Alabaster Codify7

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McTominay is already the official Matic replacement.

However we don't have any depth in midfield so if he goes in January we have to bring in a no. 2 defensive midfielder.

#2 to McTominay?

We can probably find about 150,000 of those then worldwide if that's the standard we're aiming for. £10m should be enough to bring in a DM not quite as good as McTominay to sit on the bench, forget any of the names being mentioned in this thread and also forget about improving the first team while we're at it.
 

Walters_19_MuFc

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Teun Koopmeiners is a player we should look for. He isn't exactly a Matic replacement but he is a very good deep-lying playmaker, that is what we need. He is also a good penalty taker and free kicks taker.
A midfield like this:

Maddison
Koopmeiners - McTominay


would be very balanced as we would have a double pivot with a deep-lying playmaker and a box to box destroyer and then an advanced midfielder.
I like the look of that.
 

lysglimt

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Too soon I think. He should go to some German team in the mould of Frankfurt, Gladbach... to help his development and take the next step. Players like Tielemans and De Bruyne dominated the Belgian league and even they struggled when they left the league.
Nope - if we don't snap him up now, some other big club will and he will be gone.
 

Suvvernmanc

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Load of rumours of Rakitic again this morning. Although hes very different to Matic, I dont think we are going to be looking for a direct replacement, but a midfielder to add depth. We have Fred and Mctominay doing a good job in a 2 man midfield. If we plan to move to a 3 man midfield with Pogba back involved at some point, we will need another creative player to actually keep the ball. Rakitic for a relatively low fee could be very good business. Not sure he would come here though as he'll want somewhere cosy for his last 3-4 years in the sport. Italy is where I think he'll go. But a player of this type is more needed I think than a DM.
 

red woppit

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Would be interested to see Garner on from the start, just too see how he performs during the game, not sure that Ole would give him a go, but a couple of injuries and he may have to, god forbid that Matic comes back in. Garner certainly looks the part, and he may blossom if given the chance, would need to rest him though after a few games, as he is still young, and do not want any injuries for him.

Does anyone know if Garner has suffered many injuries during his career?
 

Drz

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Would be interested to see Garner on from the start, just too see how he performs during the game, not sure that Ole would give him a go, but a couple of injuries and he may have to, god forbid that Matic comes back in. Garner certainly looks the part, and he may blossom if given the chance, would need to rest him though after a few games, as he is still young, and do not want any injuries for him.

Does anyone know if Garner has suffered many injuries during his career?
I disagree with the idea of starting a kid who if anything has proved he isn't ready in the few bits of games he has had.
 

red woppit

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I disagree with the idea of starting a kid who if anything has proved he isn't ready in the few bits of games he has had.
He may not be, looking at the games he's played so far, but it is so different starting a game. The match v Astana away, or Alkmaar at home could be a chance to have a look at him, which may prove that you are right, or he surprises everyone.
 

Ikon

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Load of rumours of Rakitic again this morning....Not sure he would come here though as he'll want somewhere cosy for his last 3-4 years in the sport..
This is exactly why we should be avoiding these 'late in their career' type of players like they had bubonic plague.
 

Drz

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He may not be, looking at the games he's played so far, but it is so different starting a game. The match v Astana away, or Alkmaar at home could be a chance to have a look at him, which may prove that you are right, or he surprises everyone.
Oh apologies, for some reason I was thinking of the Sheffield game this weekend. Those dead-rubber Europa away games are probably what's best for Garner and even Tchong to prove their worth, so glad ole went full steam at home in our previous Europa game, giving us this opportunity to rest key players and assess where we are with some of the young crop.
 

Suvvernmanc

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This is exactly why we should be avoiding these 'late in their career' type of players like they had bubonic plague.
True but if he was happy coming, and we dont know what he wants to do at the moment granted we should be all over it. He's still a top player! Plus I think some added experience around our younger players would be good.

I would personally like Partey form atletico. Hes another high energy 'all rounder' type midfielder. He can play as a #6 or in a 2 man midfield. Or even as an 8 in a 3.
 

DWelbz19

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It's probably too early to call after a lot of 20 minutes cameos but it seems like we should have bought Praet for 18M instead of letting Leicester do it. He seems to be 2-footed, decent vision for a creative pass, is aggressive and we'd be able to rotate him, Fred and McTominay behind Pogba this year. 25 year old, in the Belgian team and has good experience in a big league. Very low floor for 18M.
We already had this and we let it go on a free transfer.
 

Mark Pawelek

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According to my calculations shown here in the 'Value?' and 'Out of 10' columns, the best 2 DMCs to buy now are Teun Koopmeiners and Krystian Bielik (from a value perspective). The best 2, from an absolute perpective, are Teun Koopmeiners and Thiago. Koopmeiners does so well because he scored a large number of goals from midfield. Anyhow Thiago, Arthur and Ndiddi aren't going to be available. So looking at the 'Out of 10' column I see Matheus Henrique scores 8. I'd buy Teun Koopmeiners and Matheus Henrique. This is confirmed by watching them play. Koopmeiners scores goals (no point arguing against that). Henrique is just a very good footballer. We lost 2 midfielders last season. Matic is almost gone. If McTominay replaced Matic we still need 2 more.

PS:
Players in light green background are those I think we can sign now. Players in white background are for comparison purposes.
'Out of 10' : is a measure of marks out of 10 based on the performance of the top DMC I can find, who is Teun Koopmeiners.
'Value?' : measures 'value in the market' based on the TransferMarkt price (column: '£ m (T-Mrkt)') and absolute quality 'Out of 10'.
Darker green background = very good stat.
 

Red Devil's Advocate

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Someone like Ndidi would deliver but.....and yeah this is unintentionally baiting in the fan-club......we would still need to upgrade on McTominay. Scott currently plays a weird hybrid role of a CDM and a number 8, without committing fully to either. His efforts are admirable and he's doing a solid, professional job but a midfield with a CDM like Ndidi and a creative, flair #10 would need a more well-rounded number 8 in my opinion. We'd need someone with box to box qualities who is also technically very good and quite attack minded and Scott isn't that type of player.

In my eyes, Scott would be the ideal substitute midfielder.
He has made good progress this year. He is all over the place because he has the license and it's need of our midfield too.
Him, Pogba or whoever as #10, and a destroyer/Battering Ram as the CDM - seems sorted.
 

Red Devil's Advocate

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According to my calculations shown here in the 'Value?' and 'Out of 10' columns, the best 2 DMCs to buy now are Teun Koopmeiners and Krystian Bielik (from a value perspective). The best 2, from an absolute perpective, are Teun Koopmeiners and Thiago. Koopmeiners does so well because he scored a large number of goals from midfield. Anyhow Thiago, Arthur and Ndiddi aren't going to be available. So looking at the 'Out of 10' column I see Matheus Henrique scores 8. I'd buy Teun Koopmeiners and Matheus Henrique. This is confirmed by watching them play. Koopmeiners scores goals (no point arguing against that). Henrique is just a very good footballer. We lost 2 midfielders last season. Matic is almost gone. If McTominay replaced Matic we still need 2 more.

PS:
Players in light green background are those I think we can sign now. Players in white background are for comparison purposes.
'Out of 10' : is a measure of marks out of 10 based on the performance of the top DMC I can find, who is Teun Koopmeiners.
'Value?' : measures 'value in the market' based on the TransferMarkt price (column: '£ m (T-Mrkt)') and absolute quality 'Out of 10'.
Interesting. Haven't seen most of them play so now you gave me a side project. :)
 

backofthenet

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He's not the messiah... he's a very naughty boy
According to my calculations shown here in the 'Value?' and 'Out of 10' columns, the best 2 DMCs to buy now are Teun Koopmeiners and Krystian Bielik (from a value perspective). The best 2, from an absolute perpective, are Teun Koopmeiners and Thiago. Koopmeiners does so well because he scored a large number of goals from midfield. Anyhow Thiago, Arthur and Ndiddi aren't going to be available. So looking at the 'Out of 10' column I see Matheus Henrique scores 8. I'd buy Teun Koopmeiners and Matheus Henrique. This is confirmed by watching them play. Koopmeiners scores goals (no point arguing against that). Henrique is just a very good footballer. We lost 2 midfielders last season. Matic is almost gone. If McTominay replaced Matic we still need 2 more.

PS:
Players in light green background are those I think we can sign now. Players in white background are for comparison purposes.
'Out of 10' : is a measure of marks out of 10 based on the performance of the top DMC I can find, who is Teun Koopmeiners.
'Value?' : measures 'value in the market' based on the TransferMarkt price (column: '£ m (T-Mrkt)') and absolute quality 'Out of 10'.
Darker green background = very good stat.
There's no way that these values are even slightly correct. Ndidi would be minimum 80m as soon as we approached Leicester. Camavinga, as one of the hottest properties in France would be probably 3 times as much as he's listed. You can guarantee that Derby aren't going to let Bielek go for 5 million, or Leeds let Philips go for 10 million, both of whom have 5 years on their contracts. It's utter crap, good players though they might be.
 

Alabaster Codify7

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He has made good progress this year. He is all over the place because he has the license and it's need of our midfield too.
Him, Pogba or whoever as #10, and a destroyer/Battering Ram as the CDM - seems sorted.

Hmmm. Not for me, man.

Scott isn't technically good enough to be our first choice #8/box to box in my opinion.

It's probably just a matter of taste, for me, Scott is putting in an admirable and professional shift but I just view him as a placeholder until we have a new Herrera - Herrera was twice the player in my eyes.
 

Mark Pawelek

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There's no way that these values are even slightly correct. Ndidi would be minimum 80m as soon as we approached Leicester. Camavinga, as one of the hottest properties in France would be probably 3 times as much as he's listed. You can guarantee that Derby aren't going to let Bielek go for 5 million, or Leeds let Philips go for 10 million, both of whom have 5 years on their contracts. It's utter crap, good players though they might be.
I don't care. I can either use the TransferMarkt values or I can make my own up. TransferMarkt values are not 'utter crap'. In many cases, they're close to the price last paid for the player.

Anyhow, I aleady said Ndiddi, Arthur and Thiago are not going to be available. So the price for them is mute. That I included them only to compare with the other 6.

The question is what will the other 6, who are available, cost? 2 of them play in top leagues. The other 4 play at tier 2. The most ever paid for a player from Brazil is the €40m paid for Neymar. Henrique will go for between £20m and £30m. Probably to Barca. Koopmeiners, Bielik, Phillips, Camavinga will probably go for between £15m and £35m (tops). Roca for about £35m. Koopmeiners, Bielik, Phillips, Henrique, and Camavinga will be good value (if bought now) compared to the 3 established players in the list.
 

Macedonian Red

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Sandro Tonali or Ruben Neves.

With Scot at dmf we need backup options and someone with difrent abilities.

If Pogba plays at 8 we dont need another cmf with Fred as his back up. If Pogba plays at 10 we need cmf and back up for 10.
Something like this:

6.Scot/Tonali 8. Fred/F. Ruiz
10. Pogba/Madison

Or

6. Scot/Tonali 8. Pogba/Fred
10. Madison/Van de Beek

It doesnt mean Tonali or madison will be back ups, but will rotate with other players. Season is long and with 4 competitions and other factors like injuries everyone will play a big part.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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I don't care. I can either use the TransferMarkt values or I can make my own up. TransferMarkt values are not 'utter crap'. In many cases, they're close to the price last paid for the player.

Anyhow, I aleady said Ndiddi, Arthur and Thiago are not going to be available. So the price for them is mute. That I included them only to compare with the other 6.

The question is what will the other 6, who are available, cost? 2 of them play in top leagues. The other 4 play at tier 2. The most ever paid for a player from Brazil is the €40m paid for Neymar. Henrique will go for between £20m and £30m. Probably to Barca. Koopmeiners, Bielik, Phillips, Camavinga will probably go for between £15m and £35m (tops). Roca for about £35m. Koopmeiners, Bielik, Phillips, Henrique, and Camavinga will be good value (if bought now) compared to the 3 established players in the list.

Between Marc Roca, Camavinga, Phillips and Koopmeiners who would you sign to play alongside Mcctominay