Racism incident in PSG v Istanbul match

[kiristao]

You mean black people in US media sometimes use those terms...

But you're saying "black people say that word" so also people from haiti, south africa, south america, british people, etc etc, they all say those words.

I hope you can notice now why your post is a disaster. You're stereotyping people based on their skin colour even without wanting to.

Thats racist

Ok I get your point. I guess I should have been more clear about who I was referring to but hope you get what I meant.
I was definitely not saying that all black people from all over the world say it and I apologise if my post made it seem like I did.
I was just trying to call out the hypocrites that use it themselves but then get extremely butt hurt when someone else does.

 

[Winzaghi]

Ok I get your point. I guess I should have been more clear about who I was referring to but hope you get what I meant.
I was definitely not saying that all black people from all over the world say it and I apologise if my post made it seem like I did.
I was just trying to call out the hypocrites that use it themselves but then get extremely butt hurt when someone else does.

Do you not understand how context works, or?

 

[OL29]

And I don't appreciate you calling me a cnut. You want to discuss something in a civilized manner than I am all for it or please do not respond to my post

The fact that you’re more offended by being called a Cnut then a racist says it all to me.

 

[JPRouve]

I never said they say it so I should be able to say it. My point was that black people say it often. At times out of anger. At times as a joke. At times as an adjective and that is all acceptable by everyone but when someone who is not a black person says it, no one looks at thr context in which it is said but just jump at the use of the word and brand him a racist just like you guys did to me now.
i come from India where even if I want to be racist, I can be racist as we don't have black people here.

Is there a typo somewhere or you really wrote that?

 

[MattyLT]

"Anti-racism" in the year 2020: Constantly paint black people as a bunch of pussy cry-babies (the "everything is racist" narrative) who share one hive mind, and have the same opinions on all things (the "BLM = black people" narrative, the "this black person speaks for all black people" narrative). The whole thing feels like a George Orwell novel. "War is Peace". "Racism is anti-racism".

 

[fps]

Are you really trying to tell me that you have never heard black people refer to others as black or as 'nig**r'. There are literally thousands of videos online of black people using the word to other black people, to cops, etc.
Black standup comedians do it all the time. So do singers/rappers. I even remember Oprah saying it is time for America to have a black president when she was endorsing Obama. Can you imagine the uproar if some white celebrity had said it's now time to once again have a white president while endorsing Trump?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/newsbeat-44209141
Read the article and you will hopefully get what I am trying to say about how it's totally fine for a black person to use the word but when a white person does it, they are branded racist even without considering the context.

And I don't appreciate you calling me a cnut. You want to discuss something in a civilized manner than I am all for it or please do not respond to my post

Context. It’s a thing.

 

[Synco]

Ok I get your point. I guess I should have been more clear about who I was referring to but hope you get what I meant.
I was definitely not saying that all black people from all over the world say it and I apologise if my post made it seem like I did.

By which you have ironically given a perfect example how random people are commonly and thoughtlessly lumped together under the label "Blacks". A stereotypical perception where "racial" features trump everything else in defining a person. This is exactly what Demba Ba objected to.

And no, this doesn't mean it's the same in any context where the word "black" is used.

I was just trying to call out the hypocrites that use it themselves but then get extremely butt hurt when someone else does.

Anyway, sentences like this don't make me want to engage with you any further.

"Anti-rasism" in the year 2020: Constantly paint black people as a bunch of pussy cry-babies (the "everything is racist" narrative) who share one hive mind, and have the same opinions on all things (the "BLM = black people" narrative, the "this black person speaks for all black people" narrative). The whole thing feels like a George Orwell novel. "War is Peace". "Racism is anti-racism".

feck me, this thread is getting worse and worse.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Here's a list of some of the things that have been suggested in this thread.

- Demba Ba is a "snowflake"

- Demba Ba had no idea what was going on (so was just being angry for no reason?)

- Demba Ba probably doesn't know what racism is, or have an understanding of it.

- Black people can't possibly get offended by being referred to as "the black one" because it says black in BLM

- Because someone may have said "Gypsy" is this just (quote) "crying racism"

- Because Black people say words like the N word to each other... How can they "cry" about something like this.

- Everyone in the world - especially in professional settings - always describe people as, the black one or the white one apparently? (I must just miss it happening everytime it does)

... Thankfully there has been a lot of forceful rebuttals to this sort of stuff but still... Not the cafs finest hour

 

[kiristao]

Is there a typo somewhere or you really wrote that?

Was being ironic. Sorry if I offended you. Didn't mean to at all.

 

[Ramos]

Here's a list of some of the things that have been suggested in this thread.

- Demba Ba is a "snowflake"

- Demba Ba had no idea what was going on (so was just being angry for no reason?)

- Demba Ba probably doesn't know what racism is, or have an understanding of it.

- Black people can't possibly get offended by being referred to as "the black one" because it says black in BLM

- Because someone may have said "Gypsy" is this just (quote) "crying racism"

- Because Black people say words like the N word to each other... How can they "cry" about something like this.

- Everyone in the world - especially in professional settings - always describe people as, the black one or the white one apparently? (I must just miss it happening everytime it does)

... Thankfully there has been a lot of forceful rebuttals to this sort of stuff but still... Not the cafs finest hour

Great list! But ooh, you forgot this particular gem:

- Going around addressing total strangers as "Mister Black Man" is perfectly normal.

 

[kiristao]

Context. It’s a thing.

Precisely what I am trying to say. Context is a thing. Sorry I am probably not wording things right so I will stop trying to explain myself

 

[EngimaMK]

This thread is actually pathetic.

I need a new political home. The modern woke left, for all their talk of being Liberal seem incapable of tolerating a plurality of views and are absolutely wedded to a new orthodoxy with almost religious zeal.

The high minded offense taking and quite spiteful accusations towsrds anybody that holds a viewpoint counter to their own is worrying. Not even counter viewpoints but people that may even dare to question if this incident is really racist. They must be perennially anxious and waiting for microagrressions. As so many black players said, Micah Richards put it best - this is not clear cut racism, maybe insensitive, but is this really the hill to die on? But ignore those black people - internet wokesters have a job to do in demonstrating to everyone just how right on they are...

You people are insufferable and alienating so many of your allies. It's not that you want to tackle rascism, sexism or other - isms... That's fantastic and to be commended. It's finding those - isms in everything, it's tearing up peoples reputations and careers because of minor slights, it's the McCarthyist style witch hunt for evil racists even where they don't exist.

fecking pathetic.

 

[JPRouve]

Precisely what I am trying to say. Context is a thing. Sorry I am probably not wording things right so I will stop trying to explain myself

But you don't care about context, that's kind of the issue with all your posts in this thread. Just for context, the term "nigger" or even "nigga" aren't universally accepted and adopted within african american societies, it's also important to remember that the reason it was used by some within these communities was to reclame them, that's why the communities that have historically used those terms in a derogatory way are still not supposed to use them.

The issue is that you don't really know what you are talking about, you don't know and seemingly don't care about the contexts but are perfectly happy to label people as hypocrites and judge their personal social history.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

I never said they say it so I should be able to say it. My point was that black people say it often. At times out of anger. At times as a joke. At times as an adjective and that is all acceptable by everyone but when someone who is not a black person says it, no one looks at thr context in which it is said but just jump at the use of the word and brand him a racist just like you guys did to me now.
i come from India where even if I want to be racist, I can be racist as we don't have black people here.

Others seem to have picked you up on the stupidity of this post so I’ll leave it here.

... Thankfully there has been a lot of forceful rebuttals to this sort of stuff but still... Not the cafs finest hour

The caf doesn’t have fine hours when it comes to this subject, I’ve seen you active enough in the GC forums to know there’s a rather sizeable number of posters that have biases.

I like when it spills over into the football forum cause the true cretins expose themselves rather quickly.

 

[Bale Bale Bale]

This thread is actually pathetic.

I need a new political home. The modern woke left, for all their talk of being Liberal seem incapable of tolerating a plurality of views and are absolutely wedded to a new orthodoxy with almost religious zeal.

The high minded offense taking and quite spiteful accusations towsrds anybody that holds a viewpoint counter to their own is worrying. Not even counter viewpoints but people that may even dare to question if this incident is really racist. They must be perennially anxious and waiting for microagrressions. As so many black players said, Micah Richards put it best - this is not clear cut racism, maybe insensitive, but is this really the hill to die on? But ignore those black people - internet wokesters have a job to do in demonstrating to everyone just how right on they are...

You people are insufferable and alienating so many of your allies. It's not that you want to tackle rascism, sexism or other - isms... That's fantastic and to be commended. It's finding those - isms in everything, it's tearing up peoples reputations and careers because of minor slights, it's the McCarthyist style witch hunt for evil racists even where they don't exist.

fecking pathetic.

I worry for what the end game is with these people, it's not possible to eradicate racism when you're forever creating your own. Any perceived injustice against a black/non-white person or group is only ever going to be seen one way so what is it we're striving for exactly? I'm not sure about this version of equality that is being pushed either, it is completely at odds with the truest definition of the term.

When this Romanian official isn't being branded a racist he's being called ignorant and uneducated, there's no allowance for cultural differences. We must shoot this man down immediately in the name of progression.

 

[scudetto_boy]

I suspect i have not heard everything that was said between the 4th official & the member of Istanbul training staff because he referred to a man as a "black guy" or a "black man" & that is in no way being prejudice or discriminatory; therefor something else must have been said & if it hasn't, i'd be tempted to have the Istanbul club coach disciplined for such inappropriate behaviour.

At times like these, it is wise to have a look at what an actual definition of racism is:

"the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another.".

&

"prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.".

 

[MattyLT]

feck me, this thread is getting worse and worse.

Yeah, it's increasingly going over your head.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

This thread is actually pathetic.

I need a new political home. The modern woke left, for all their talk of being Liberal seem incapable of tolerating a plurality of views and are absolutely wedded to a new orthodoxy with almost religious zeal.

The high minded offense taking and quite spiteful accusations towsrds anybody that holds a viewpoint counter to their own is worrying. Not even counter viewpoints but people that may even dare to question if this incident is really racist. They must be perennially anxious and waiting for microagrressions. As so many black players said, Micah Richards put it best - this is not clear cut racism, maybe insensitive, but is this really the hill to die on? But ignore those black people - internet wokesters have a job to do in demonstrating to everyone just how right on they are...

You people are insufferable and alienating so many of your allies. It's not that you want to tackle rascism, sexism or other - isms... That's fantastic and to be commended. It's finding those - isms in everything, it's tearing up peoples reputations and careers because of minor slights, it's the McCarthyist style witch hunt for evil racists even where they don't exist.

fecking pathetic.

Lots of words, not so much content.

I can’t be bothered to trawl every post in here but let’s stay on your ‘ex black players, Micah Richards’ point. Who in here has labelled the 4th official an out & out racist? [Edit: More than happy to be proven wrong on this but not seen any of this groupthink happening in here]. People are discussing the rather irrefutable fact that an identifier such as ‘the black{s}” [something I have seen used in here by posters] has far more negative connotations than others.

‘Hill to die on’, ‘wokesters’, ‘woke left’ & you want to talk about tolerance

Your post shows you’re obviously capable of digesting a dictionary but what is pathetic is coming in here not interacting with the subject & spewing verbal diahhrea from your own perspective of superiority.

You people are insufferable and alienating so many of your allies.

Who the feck are this ‘you’? What other ism uses a lot of generalisations & name calling. . . Ra. . . oh forget it.

 

[Stacks]

First I want to say that it's a complete tangent from the thread.

What does black people means as a collective? What does white people means as a collective? More often than not you shouldn't use the term black people to describe a collective because it has little meaning or relevance, it doesn't describe a particular geographical, cultural, ethnical or even social group. And a good example would be the US, while they are sometimes superficially lumped in the same group african immigrants and african-americans are two totally different cultural and social groups and african immigrants are divided in a multitude of subcultures and social groups.

It's one of these things that seem benign but are damaging because for some reason people have accepted the idea that blackness was a determining characteristic and they are judged based on that. You don't see that for people with other skin tones, slavs aren't white, they are slavs and aren't/shouldn't be confused with scandinavians or iberians, at the very least people accept it when they are told. So it's always strange that there is a push back on that, when people with a dark skin tone want to be given the right to choose what determine them and want to be given the benefit of their particularism.

Usually persons of African descent vs persons of European descent. This is what I hear anyways.

They do get recognised as such when possible. There are groups in the USA such as ADOS who do not even like African immigrants. I have heard people being referred to as Jamaican American and Nigerian American, especially if their parents are recent immigrants and that information is known. A lot of this is down to how much or little info you have about a person.

I also hear Slavic people being described as white all the time. It depends on who is describing them and how much information they have of their background. If you were going just by appearance, I have heard people describe Eastern European's as white. If it is other non Slavic white people, they would often describe them as Slavic in order to distinguish the individual from themselves.

I think I get what you mean however I think its just down to a lack of information/knowledge about a person. British Carribean/Ghanian/Nigerian is often used in place of "black", at least where I am from.

 

[cafecillos]

This thread is actually pathetic.

I need a new political home. The modern woke left, for all their talk of being Liberal seem incapable of tolerating a plurality of views and are absolutely wedded to a new orthodoxy with almost religious zeal.

The high minded offense taking and quite spiteful accusations towsrds anybody that holds a viewpoint counter to their own is worrying. Not even counter viewpoints but people that may even dare to question if this incident is really racist. They must be perennially anxious and waiting for microagrressions. As so many black players said, Micah Richards put it best - this is not clear cut racism, maybe insensitive, but is this really the hill to die on? But ignore those black people - internet wokesters have a job to do in demonstrating to everyone just how right on they are...

You people are insufferable and alienating so many of your allies. It's not that you want to tackle rascism, sexism or other - isms... That's fantastic and to be commended. It's finding those - isms in everything, it's tearing up peoples reputations and careers because of minor slights, it's the McCarthyist style witch hunt for evil racists even where they don't exist.

fecking pathetic.

Keep up the good work, someone has to be a hero, a crusader of neutrality, if you will, and call out all those pathetic SJWs. Racism is mostly bullshit anyway, it's high time we had a serious talk about the real issues.

 

[Pagh Wraith]

Usually persons of African descent vs persons of European descent. This is what I hear anyways.

They do get recognised as such when possible. There are groups in the USA such as ADOS who do not even like African immigrants. I have heard people being referred to as Jamaican American and Nigerian American, especially if their parents are recent immigrants and that information is known. A lot of this is down to how much or little info you have about a person.

I also hear Slavic people being described as white all the time. It depends on who is describing them and how much information they have of their background. If you were going just by appearance, I have heard people describe Eastern European's as white. If it is other non Slavic white people, they would often describe them as Slavic in order to distinguish the individual from themselves.

I think I get what you mean however I think its just down to a lack of information/knowledge about a person. British Carribean/Ghanian/Nigerian is often used in place of "black", at least where I am from.

There's also a point to be made of white not just being a colour but a status. So Eastern Europeans in the West may be higher regarded than say immigrants from Africa, but they are not "white" in the sense that they could still be treated as second-class citizens. Irish immigrants in the US are good case study of working their way up the the societal ladder to being "white".

 

[ChatBat]

Here's a list of some of the things that have been suggested in this thread.

- Because someone may have said "Gypsy" is this just (quote) "crying racism"

Casually dismissing racism aimed at an eastern european while crying foul of racism towards a black person. Typical western european mentality.

 

[JPRouve]

Usually persons of African descent vs persons of European descent. This is what I hear anyways.

They do get recognised as such when possible. There are groups in the USA such as ADOS who do not even like African immigrants. I have heard people being referred to as Jamaican American and Nigerian American, especially if their parents are recent immigrants and that information is known. A lot of this is down to how much or little info you have about a person.

I also hear Slavic people being described as white all the time. It depends on who is describing them and how much information they have of their background. If you were going just by appearance, I have heard people describe Eastern European's as white. If it is other non Slavic white people, they would often describe them as Slavic in order to distinguish the individual from themselves.

I think I get what you mean however I think its just down to a lack of information/knowledge about a person. British Carribean/Ghanian/Nigerian is often used in place of "black", at least where I am from.

That's what I'm talking about some people even when they know, they don't care. And that's true in Africa too, many people do that with "whites" in a pejorative way.

There's also a point to be made of white not just being a colour but a status. So Eastern Europeans in the West may be higher regarded than say immigrants from Africa, but they are not "white" in the sense that they could still be treated as second-class citizens. Irish immigrants in the US are good case study of working their way up the the societal ladder to being "white".

Historically Irish are the ones that should understand African Americans the best, in a funny not so funny way, they were likened to chimps and gorillas, savages without conscience.

 

[JPRouve]

Casually dismissing racism aimed at an eastern european while crying foul of racism towards a black person. Typical western european mentality.

What makes it typical? I said that they should be punished for it, am I not typical?

 

[ChatBat]

What makes it typical? I said that they should be punished for it, am I not typical?

Eh? I was quoting Annihilate Now and what he posted.

But to answer the "what makes it typical" is the fact that western europeans have a long history of shitting on eastern europeans and whenever they cry foul about something that is done towards them, they turn around and do the same towards the easterners.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jan/27/uk-immigration-romania-bulgaria-ministers

 

[Pagh Wraith]

Historically Irish are the ones that should understand African Americans the best, in a funny not so funny way, they were likened to chimps and gorillas, savages without conscience.

The fact that I could probably get away with making a joke about Irish drunkenness using that description also tells you something about the difference in status of these two groups.

 

[JPRouve]

Eh? I was quoting Annihilate Now and what he posted.

But to answer the "what makes it typical" is the fact that western europeans have a long history of shitting on eastern europeans and whenever they cry foul about something that is done towards them, they turn around and do the same towards the easterners.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jan/27/uk-immigration-romania-bulgaria-ministers

You do realize that an awful lot of western europeans are totally against that type of behavior? You don't see a problem with the way you paint everyone with the same brush?

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Casually dismissing racism aimed at an eastern european while crying foul of racism towards a black person. Typical western european mentality.

Who has dismissed it? Also worth saying we don't know exactly what was said in that regard... But has it been disregarded in this thread?

And "crying foul of racism"... Really? Who's crying in this scenario? Webo?

 

[TP2000]

This thread is actually pathetic.

I need a new political home. The modern woke left, for all their talk of being Liberal seem incapable of tolerating a plurality of views and are absolutely wedded to a new orthodoxy with almost religious zeal.

The high minded offense taking and quite spiteful accusations towsrds anybody that holds a viewpoint counter to their own is worrying. Not even counter viewpoints but people that may even dare to question if this incident is really racist. They must be perennially anxious and waiting for microagrressions. As so many black players said, Micah Richards put it best - this is not clear cut racism, maybe insensitive, but is this really the hill to die on? But ignore those black people - internet wokesters have a job to do in demonstrating to everyone just how right on they are...

You people are insufferable and alienating so many of your allies. It's not that you want to tackle rascism, sexism or other - isms... That's fantastic and to be commended. It's finding those - isms in everything, it's tearing up peoples reputations and careers because of minor slights, it's the McCarthyist style witch hunt for evil racists even where they don't exist.

fecking pathetic.

Agreed.

It's the assumption of themselves as being unimpeachable arbiters of moral virtue that troubles me the most, and this thread is a perfect example of it.

I have a bleak view on the future of large sections of the West. We're in deep trouble. The left, right and 'political center' (which is an ideology in its own right), are all increasingly detached from reality.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Keep up the good work, someone has to be a hero, a crusader of neutrality, if you will, and call out all those pathetic SJWs. Racism is mostly bullshit anyway, it's high time we had a serious talk about the real issues.

& another one reveals himself

 

[Ramos]

Who has dismissed it? Also worth saying we don't know exactly what was said in that regard.

And "crying foul of racism"... Really? Who's crying in this scenario? Webo?

This bugs me too somewhat. All this BS about "typical westerners", "the woke left" and "sjw's" conveniently ignoring it's two 35+ year old black men with decades of living experience in various countries around the entire globe (Uruguay, Turkey, Spain, China, Germany, etc.) that signaled the problem.

 

[ChatBat]

You do realize that an awful lot of western europeans are totally against that type of behavior? You don't see a problem with the way you paint everyone with the same brush?

Quite frankly no, it doesn't bother me. After 30 years of being called a gypsy, a thief, "hey, why don't you have brown skin if you're from Romania, aren't you all dark over there?", being held up at border crossings for the indignity of being romanian, being followed every time I walked into shops once they heard I'm romanian (hello Germany), having a very public humiliation from a british elder couple in the US to the point of my girlfriend, who lives in Asia and was not aware white people get shit on, asked me "what the hell was that about?" to which I replied "this is the western european xenophobia I've been telling you about", I literally don't give a rats ass anymore about painting the westerners as hypocritical a-holes. The West has done a very good job at alienating and making sure I do not feel welcomed.

 

[Cheimoon]

I worry for what the end game is with these people, it's not possible to eradicate racism when you're forever creating your own. Any perceived injustice against a black/non-white person or group is only ever going to be seen one way so what is it we're striving for exactly? I'm not sure about this version of equality that is being pushed either, it is completely at odds with the truest definition of the term.

When this Romanian official isn't being branded a racist he's being called ignorant and uneducated, there's no allowance for cultural differences. We must shoot this man down immediately in the name of progression.

Hang on - even saying that the refs' actions were ignotany or uneducated goes too far now? I thought that's the one thing we could all agree on!

This thread has really taken quite the turn today...

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Absolutely spot on. It has gone from when you treat someone differently based on skin colour or ethnicity to pretty much just referring to someone based on their skin colour or country of origin.
What makes it worse is that the black (or am I supposed to say African American) community happily uses the words 'black' and 'nigg*r' when referring to each other or in songs, etc but as soon as a white person uses the same word even to describe a physical characteristic with no malice meant whatsoever, there is hue and cry.

Is your only experience with black people from watching rappers on TV? What proportion of black people do you think use the N word?

Can you not understand the context and history of the word mean that maybe SOME black people feel they should reclaim it after 400 years of it being used as part of an oppressive regime?

If you call someone the N word as a non black person it would be highly unlikely there is no malice involved.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Here's a list of some of the things that have been suggested in this thread.

- Demba Ba is a "snowflake"

- Demba Ba had no idea what was going on (so was just being angry for no reason?)

- Demba Ba probably doesn't know what racism is, or have an understanding of it.

- Black people can't possibly get offended by being referred to as "the black one" because it says black in BLM

- Because someone may have said "Gypsy" is this just (quote) "crying racism"

- Because Black people say words like the N word to each other... How can they "cry" about something like this.

- Everyone in the world - especially in professional settings - always describe people as, the black one or the white one apparently? (I must just miss it happening everytime it does)

... Thankfully there has been a lot of forceful rebuttals to this sort of stuff but still... Not the cafs finest hour

It's fecking depressing when you list it all like that. The World seems to be getting worse.

Get some diversity training you bunch of cnuts!

 

[Olly Gunnar Solskjær]

Let's not forget the thread a few weeks ago where loads of people were saying it was fine to refer to black people as "coloured".

 

[Foxbatt]

It may be better to quote the exact word the 4th official said instead of the English translation or meaning.

 

[Hughie77]

Are you really trying to tell me that you have never heard black people refer to others as black or as 'nig**r'. There are literally thousands of videos online of black people using the word to other black people, to cops, etc.
Black standup comedians do it all the time. So do singers/rappers. I even remember Oprah saying it is time for America to have a black president when she was endorsing Obama. Can you imagine the uproar if some white celebrity had said it's now time to once again have a white president while endorsing Trump?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/newsbeat-44209141
Read the article and you will hopefully get what I am trying to say about how it's totally fine for a black person to use the word but when a white person does it, they are branded racist even without considering the context.

And I don't appreciate you calling me a cnut. You want to discuss something in a civilized manner than I am all for it or please do not respond to my post

Agree with every word.

 

[Stacks]

There's also a point to be made of white not just being a colour but a status. So Eastern Europeans in the West may be higher regarded than say immigrants from Africa, but they are not "white" in the sense that they could still be treated as second-class citizens. Irish immigrants in the US are good case study of working their way up the the societal ladder to being "white".

good point

 

[Stacks]

That's what I'm talking about some people even when they know, they don't care. And that's true in Africa too, many people do that with "whites" in a pejorative way.



Historically Irish are the ones that should understand African Americans the best, in a funny not so funny way, they were likened to chimps and gorillas, savages without conscience.

I mean that's fair enough and I wouldn't disagree with you in this being problematic. grouping us all in when we are one of the most diverse peoples on the planet