Racism incident in PSG v Istanbul match

[SER19]

The state of this thread these are terribly sensitive issues and conversations about them can do without the righteous indignation, the reactionism against any person who offers a alternate opinion or scenario, and the utter idiocy of making claims about the incident that make no sense. Eg he has his shirt number. Talking about ba being booked. I can only assume these people haven't even watched it.

Take a breath, treat eachother respectfully and converse like adults.

 

[Bosws87]

The fact that you see the the most obvious way of identifying a person as "the black one" says a lot about you too buddy.

My Ginger mate feels the same.

 

[abundance]

The state of this thread these are terribly sensitive issues and conversations about them can do without the righteous indignation, the reactionism against any person who offers a alternate opinion or scenario, and the utter idiocy of making claims about the incident that make no sense. Eg he has his shirt number. Talking about ba being booked. I can only assume these people haven't even watched it.

Take a breath, treat eachother respectfully and converse like adults.

this. =)

 

[Lay]

If the guy is looking at the bench without knowning names and without seeing number at first glance I don't see referring him as negro as racism, if his skin colour stands out from the rest. Objectively how would you refer to him in this case? "Who? - Uh it's that guy over there. - Which? uh wait, let me get closer and find the number on his back..."

Now if it's the n word is a different story.

I had an amusing situation at work years ago when my manager asked me where 'Chris was'. We had 3 Chris's on the team and one of them was black. He wanted to know where he was and after I said "which one?" he tried so hard to describe him in ways without saying "the black one".

 

[Conor]

What? Seems you should take a step away from the keyboard. I have no idea how I could have possibly worded that differently.

I think he has decided to jump down your throat, without considering that English isn't your first language. 'Black people' would probably be more appropriate to say.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Wow official being racist this time. Just wow!

Siding with Demba Ba here, I appreciate him stepping up against that official. It must be said.

The silver lining about this is greater promotion against racism next, having a freaking official did it. Eradicate racism completely!

 

[AC1689]

What? Seems you should take a step away from the keyboard. I have no idea how I could have possibly worded that differently.

‘A group of black people/men.’

‘If I was the only white person in the group.’

Either, or.

Why did you afford yourself the luxury of describing yourself as a person, but not the same when describing the black people? If you’d have said you were the only white person amongst a group of black people, fine.

It’s the wording setting the wrong tone here. If you can’t see the problem, I can’t help you.

“Blacks” to describe a group of black people is derogatory. It’s simple.

 

[JakeC]

Deleted it. You might have a point. But his comment angered me.

Yeah, not calling you out or anything dude!

 

[HowYouDoin]

Man, this is so hard to judge.

The whole issue exists due to English speakers fecking up by using a completely racist term that sounds like a word other languages use for a term that isn't meant to have the same negative connotations.

I'm not comfortable seeing English as this higher language but it's certainly crass to refer to him as 'black guy'.

Good to see solidarity though. If in doubt, walk out.

Something like that.
English is lingua franca today and everyone speaks it yet few really understand it and the culture behind it.
I will never forget when I hooked up with this white german girl in Vancouver, Canada and the night before we hung out with this black guy who was using the N word all the time in all his stories.
Next day me and her, we were walking this place which is really like a ghetto and she started impersonating him, dropping N word like its nothing... I was like wtf...do you know what youre doing, here out of all places?
And she had no idea N word was something bad, a taboo in English. She was just impersonating a guy from last night.



I guess the lesson here is if everyone speak english these days and if everything is in english people better learn the culture and the taboos too. No other way.
This ref is from Romania. Different culture. He should know better because he is a ref.
So yeah he only has himself to blame I guess.

Everyone will need to learn customs etc in the english language and culture if we all agree its the universal language of communication.

 

[Pagh Wraith]

It's not the fecking same.

I'd say in this very specific case (where it is only about identifying a person) it is. This is not an equating mean words against whites with racism against blacks and claiming there is racism against whites thing. I ask you honestly how you'd refer to the only white in a group of blacks and vice versa the only black in a group of whites.

 

[horsechoker]

What's happened in Paris?
PSG 0-0 Istanbul Basaksehir

In case you're just joining us and wondering why the PSG game is suspended...

Istanbul Basaksehir assistant boss Pierre Webo, a former Cameroon international, was sent off by the referee.

He then claimed the fourth official used a racist term towards him.

Their players walked down the tunnel after a long argument and PSG's players followed.

Just so we're clear that Ba wasn't the one who was allegedly abused.

At the moment, Istanbul aren't leaving the locker room.

 

[Mibabalou]

Ah! Thanks, that wasn't clear to me.

No worries!

 

[KekiZeki]

The guy just spoke his language. Just like we will claim Cavani did.
Can we ask for this tie to be scrapped because of racism while at the same time not have banned Cavani for the same thing?

Romanian is not too different from spanish or italian.

 

[Sandikan]

He wasn't talking about Ba, he was pointing out the only black coach on the bench. "that one there, the black one".

If there was a player yes you could use their number.

But a coaching staff member amongst many who you may well now know - i think almost anyone would try and describe them?!

 

[MrMarcello]

Webo is Cameroonian... to him, how would "negru" sound? I have not a single clue on what is considered racist terms/words in Cameroon.

 

[Maciej]

What should he have said?

The darker one compared to those around him?

The different white one?

Oh come on, people use such words and the 'n' word only in English is the 'n' word.

Calm down people, laughable decision.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

He's speaking in Romanian.

He says "ala negru", which means "the black one". There is nothing racist about that.

Are you serious?

I mean, there's a chance you're fishing...

 

[Vidyoyo]

The state of this thread these are terribly sensitive issues and conversations about them can do without the righteous indignation, the reactionism against any person who offers a alternate opinion or scenario, and the utter idiocy of making claims about the incident that make no sense. Eg he has his shirt number. Talking about ba being booked. I can only assume these people haven't even watched it.

Take a breath, treat eachother respectfully and converse like adults.

Sorry for being so straight because it is a sensitive issue but please read the thread and realise it was about Pierre Webo, not Demba Ba at least before you criticise others and take such a self-righteous stance yourself.

Practice what you preach and all that.

 

[africanspur]

My point is that intent and context should inform our response to these incidents. I see parallels with the Cavani incident here. In both cases a mistake was made but I"m not sure if it was intentionally racist.

And my point, which is becoming increasingly clear to me that a lot of white Europeans and Americans either don't want to, or refuse to, understand, is that a lot of racism is no longer as in your face or obvious as racist lynchings or the use of terms like nigger or paki. It is often not even said with racist intent imo. But it is painful to experience nonetheless.

 

[Cheimoon]

Are these guys racist, too?

https://uncf.org/

Not sure what your point is? Where is the comparable situation?

Also, I didn't say saying 'the black guy' as a descriptor is racist, I'm saying I think it's unhelpful and should be avoided. And that using the word 'negru' is not very... strategic, given the connotations of similar words in other languages.

 

[JakeC]

30 seconds into the second half, we give the ball away twice and then kick the ball out for a throw.

 

[krautrøck]

Reported for hate speech

It was worth it.

 

[V.O.]

I need context here. Was it Ba he referred to as "the black one" because that would be out of line as he clearly knows Ba's name as we heard in the video.

I think it's it's their assistant manager, Pierre Webo, who was being pointed out to get the card?

I vaguely remember him playing for Mallorca a decade ago but can't say I'd recognise him on sight either.

I had an amusing situation at work years ago when my manager asked me where 'Chris was'. We had 3 Chris's on the team and one of them was black. He wanted to know where he was and after I said "which one?" he tried so hard to describe him in ways without saying "the black one".

This is why I've got some sympathy for the officials here. It really is probably going to be "7th bloke from the left on the bench" otherwise.

 

[AC1689]

omg

If you don’t think describing a group of black people as “the blacks” is derogatory, and that it’s worth laughing at me for calling it out, you need to learn a few things about subtle racist language which isn’t acceptable.

 

[Massive Spanner]

If there's a group of 5 people, then surely saying the black one if there is only one black person is fine? Just as it would be if you said the white one if only one was white?
Or tall or short or female or black haired etc.

We're surely not in such a place now where you can't even describe someone as a colour at all.

Will police forces have to stop giving descriptions? And just say "a person" etc?

Racism is bad, and this may prove to be that - but just saying the black guy as a descriptor isn't racist alone.

Whatever he said completely enraged the person it was directed at so who are we to say it's okay to say something like that? Or do you want to tell that staff member "actually you know what, I've decided he's not being racist to you, you just think he is"?

I always find it mad that people of a different skin colour can say with such authority that a comment is not racist even though the person it was directed at thought it was fecking racist. Time and time again.

 

[JPB]

It's not the fecking same.

How is it not the same!? what the feck?

 

[Kaos]

This thread is a trainwreck.

 

[rron10]

He was trying to identify who was it, surely negru in romanian is black in english, black color that is, so I would call it racism by negligence and obviously the referee did not think too much before speaking.

 

[Pagh Wraith]

I think he has decided to jump down your throat, without considering that English isn't your first language. 'Black people' would probably be more appropriate to say.

Point taken. Funnily in German it'd almost be the other way around.

 

[Redlyn]

"The black guy" is not racist in my book. I don't care what pc police has got to say about it. In a reasonable world it's a non issue. In this bullshit one it's a cause to suspend a match a football. FFS.

 

[horsechoker]

30 seconds into the second half, we give the ball away twice and then kick the ball out for a throw.

The real abuse of the night

 

[KirkDuyt]

Good on both teams to walk off.

Blatant racism. The real problem here is that so many people dont even appreciate that it is. The ref identified someone by the colour of his skin - even though I appreciate there may have been no malice.

This is the kind of racism which is subtle and goes unnoticed. I'm sure the ref went in and said that he had no intention to racially identify or abuse. This type of stuff creates an identity differential and related consequences.

He should say sorry for being insensitive to other cultures and languages. Unless negru is a derogatory term in Romanian, then he should get sacked and fecked off. Describing someone by the colour of his skin, is a daft thing to do, especially in this day and age, but feck me, let's wait with the crucifixion until he explains himself.

 

[chillooout]

Cmon, identifying a person with simply calling him "black" is not racist in many cultures. "black male", "white male" are used to identified suspect on the news. It is not even an offensive word. Even in my culture, "black guy" is called on a guy for friendliness purpose.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Just in theory, if the match was in Africa and most of the players were black, and there was one white player - if the white player is called "the white one", would that be considered racist?

As an aside, how many countries do you think are in Africa? Some have significant white populations.

It bugs me that people just refer to Africa as if it is one morphed entity, it is one of the biggest fecking continents in the World! Packed with different cultures, people and countries.

 

[Pexbo]

The real abuse of the night

 

[SER19]

Sorry for being so straight as it is a sensitive issue but please read the thread and realise it was about Pierre Webo, not Demba Ba at least before you criticise and take such a self-righteous stance yourself.

You're doing what I said. I specifically ky pointed out that people were reacting too quick and claiming it was about ba.

What a shit show. People need to breath

 

[dove]

The fact that you see the the most obvious way of identifying a person as "the black one" says a lot about you too buddy.

You kidding? If in the group of 10 people there is 1 person with different skin colour sitting on the bench, of course the easiest way is to identify by colour FFS.

 

[Eendracht maakt macht]

Its wrong whether it happened to you or not. And Demba ba is talking about in football. The ref wouldnt say it

Don’t have a problem with someone calling me white while I am white personally.

Do we know that though? Can imagine ‘that white Guy’ has been said in football. Often happens in amateur football in the Netherlands at least. I don’t know how this 4th official would refer to a white person. First time I saw him.

Again I understand it’s not the same just that what Ba says is not true.

 

[Lay]

The fact that you see the the most obvious way of identifying a person as "the black one" says a lot about you too buddy.

I really am not sure. I'm Indian and I've been referred to as the 'Asian' one or the 'Indian guy' and haven't thought it to be racist. I've described someone as the black guy before or the white guy etc. Personally I think seeing someone's race is a positive than a negative. It sure beats the "I don't see colour" bollocks.

I'm not talking about this incident before anyone thinks I'm defending the official.

 

[Cassidy]

I'd say in this very specific case (where it is only about identifying a person) it is. This is not an equating mean words against whites with racism against blacks and claiming there is racism against whites thing. I ask you honestly how you'd refer to the only white in a group of blacks and vice versa the only black in a group of whites.

Its happens alot to me and I dont refer to the person as the white one, but maybe thats just me (having been on the other end)

I see why people do it, but I dont think its right personally, but I wouldnt say it was racist. Each to their own, playing football back in the early 90s it happened to me a lot and it wasn't great.