Racism incident in PSG v Istanbul match

[Drawfull]

He's speaking in Romanian.

He says "ala negru", which means "the black one". There is nothing racist about that.

Yeah, I always refer to my mate as the white one, second from the left. feck's sake.

 

[horsechoker]

You guys realise that even if this is not racist there is still appropriate language you use in a professional environment.

Even if this is not racist it still seems very unprofessional in a multicultural environment.

 

[King Andow]

If you don’t think describing a group of black people as “the blacks” is derogatory, and that it’s worth laughing at me for calling it out, you need to learn a few things about subtle racist language which isn’t acceptable.

Whatever, snowflake. That's not racism.

 

[Vidyoyo]

You're doing what I said. I specificalky pointed out that people were reacting too quick and claiming it was about ba.

What a shit show. People need to breath

Then I'm an idiot and I apologise for misunderstanding your point

True too - I'm gonna wait until later now and see what's actually happened.

 

[markhughes]

Will police forces have to stop giving descriptions? And just say "a person" etc?

Police use codes for ethnic descriptions, for instance ‘IC3=Black”.

 

[mu4c_20le]

The guy just spoke his language. Just like we will claim Cavani did.
Can we ask for this tie to be scrapped because of racism while at the same time not have banned Cavani for the same thing?

Romanian is not too different from spanish or italian.

Sorry but if it was such an innocent mistake it would be very common. I don't buy it

 

[Cheimoon]

Man, this is so hard to judge.

The whole issue exists due to English speakers fecking up by using a completely racist term that sounds like a word other languages use for a term that isn't meant to have the same negative connotations.

I'm not comfortable seeing English as this higher language but it's certainly crass to refer to him as 'black guy'.

Good to see solidarity though. If in doubt, walk out.

It's not just the English n-word word though. 'Negru' would have similar-sounding words in other languages (like negro and nègre) that are not really neutral nowadays anymore either. (For example, as much as MLK was talking about 'the negro' in the 60s, I don't think he would know.)

He definitely shouldn't have said it and he should apologize, but I can somewhat understand him doing it more out of obliviousness than out of malice.

I'm not defending what he said, but he should get a chance to at least apologize and explain himself.

Edit: apparantly this ref refused to stop a match after the crowd made jungle sounds against a black player a few years ago. So maybe the intent was as bad as the words after all.

The edit makes it all a lot more interesting, although I doubt anyone on the pitch was aware of that.

Anyway, I agree it's messy territory, but as soon as it's said, emotions explode (rightfully) and 'time to explain himself' is gone, I'm afraid. I see there are chances this will be resumed, so I'm curious to see how this got resolved and how they will communicate that. A quick statement by the ref team, accompanied by the managers and captains would be great - but that's not usually football's way.

 

[Chipper]

Game will resume at 9 apparently


I mean that's one person... and thats great for them, but as a general rule I don't tend to apply what one person says and apply it to everyone.

Nor do I. I also tend to see someone give an example of something and assume it's the only such example in the world.

Would you be happy if I showed you 5, 10, 100 examples to show it's not a particularly unique viewpoint? I could but then I suppose you could say that those 100 only speak for themselves too.

 

[Cassidy]

Don’t have a problem with someone calling me white while I am white personally.

Do we know that though? Can imagine ‘that white Guy’ has been said in football. Often happens in amateur football in the Netherlands at least. I don’t know how this 4th official would refer to a white person. First time I saw him.

Again I understand it’s not the same just that what Ba says is not true.

Yes I know that because in this level of football the white player isnt going to be a minority, obviously

 

[pablo__p]

Why was he even talking in Romanian?
Had he said "this black guy there", surely there would have been no such reaction.

 

[HowYouDoin]

Languages to ban:

Spanish
Romanian

In all fairness Demba Ba isnt english nor is english his first language and the ref was someone that should know better given his job.
Completely different than the Cavani situation. Cavani thing was ridiculous, this is a bit more serious.

 

[Massive Spanner]

You kidding? If in the group of 10 people there is 1 person with different skin colour sitting on the bench, of course the easiest way is to identify by colour FFS.

Are you seriously telling me that you've been in situations where you've said "him, the white guy over there!" or similar? C'mon.

 

[Champ]

He wears a jacket. Can't see a number.

So 'the one with the mask down by his chin and the big jacket, to the left of the manager...' sounds a bit better than what was said do you not think??

 

[Sandikan]

Whatever he said completely enraged the person it was directed at so who are we to say it's okay to say something like that? Or do you want to tell that staff member "actually you know what, I've decided he's not being racist to you, you just think he is"?

I always find it mad that people of a different skin colour can say with such authority that a comment is not racist even though the person it was directed at thought it was fecking racist. Time and time again.

I'm a white guy so I've not been in that situation. I ran it past my black mate at work and he can't get any offence from it either.
Maybe it's our generation.

Maybe the player misconstrued it as being a slur rather than a simple description.
Probably best to wait the investigation.

 

[JPRouve]

Are these guys racist, too?

https://uncf.org/

Context is everything. The best example is the Negro League, today MLB broadcasters will say negro in that context and it won't be a problem because the context of the usage of the word is set and understood. Now if the same broadcaster use that term in a totally different setting, you can bet that it will raise eyebrows.

@kouroux do you think that it would be received positively if a french referee said "Le noir là-bas."? I don't know why but it sounds weird, not necessarily racist but awkward.

 

[Drawfull]

Whatever, snowflake. That's not racism.

feck off.

 

[PepG]

They really suspended a match for this bullshit?! WTF!

 

[VorZakone]

Why was he even talking in Romanian?
Had he said "this black guy there", surely there would have been no such reaction.

Does it matter really? Is it bad for him to talk in Romanian?

 

[horsechoker]

A few anti-Marxists in here.

 

[dove]

Are you seriously telling me that you've been in situations where you've said "him, the white guy over there!" or similar? C'mon.

Where did I tell you that?... Feck knows what happens in the leagues where majority of players are black but I am quite sure that if "him, the white guy over there!" was said, nobody would pay attention.

 

[Mrs Smoker]

So 'the one with the mask down by his chin and the big jacket, to the left of the manager...' sounds a bit better than what was said do you not think??

Too long.

 

[Eendracht maakt macht]

Yes I know that because in this level of football the white player isnt going to be a minority, obviously

It was about the only black man of the staff though wasn’t it?

 

[Siorac]

I guess the lesson here is if everyone speak english these days and if everything is in english people better learn the culture and the taboos too. No other way.
This ref is from Romania. Different culture. He should know better because he is a ref.
So yeah he only has himself to blame I guess.

Everyone will need to learn customs etc in the english language and culture if we all agree its the universal language of communication.

He wasn't speaking English though and I don't know if we all agree that English is suddenly the universal language. I certainly didn't get a vote.

 

[King Andow]

feck off.

Too offensive, mate.

 

[AC1689]

Whatever, snowflake. That's not racism.

Go and ask a black person if he’s happy for any group of black people to be described as “the blacks”. You’ll get your answer then.

As for calling me a snowflake, I would say grow up. Certain terms just aren’t helpful when tackling racism. I really hope you aren’t one of the all lives matter crowd.

 

[The Kag]

Why was he even talking in Romanian?
Had he said "this black guy there", surely there would have been no such reaction.

Because he's communicating with another official who is also Romanian? How is speaking in your native tongue outlandish?

 

[diarm]

If the guy is looking at the bench without knowning names and without seeing number at first glance I don't see referring him as negro as racism, if his skin colour stands out from the rest. Objectively how would you refer to him in this case? "Who? - Uh it's that guy over there. - Which? uh wait, let me get closer and find the number on his back..."

Now if it's the n word is a different story.

The coach wasn't the only black man on the bench. Ba and Bolongoli were also there.

 

[Jippy]

If you don’t think describing a group of black people as “the blacks” is derogatory, and that it’s worth laughing at me for calling it out, you need to learn a few things about subtle racist language which isn’t acceptable.

Calm down, he's not posting in his first language and several posters have politely told him it can be misconstrued and worded better in future.

 

[VP]

And my point, which is becoming increasingly clear to me that a lot of white Europeans and Americans either don't want to, or refuse to, understand, is that a lot of racism is no longer as in your face or obvious as racist lynchings or the use of terms like nigger or paki. It is often not even said with racist intent imo. But it is painful to experience nonetheless.

It is painful but is it as painful as the slurs with intent? Speaking as an Asian, I agree that type of racism exists but the response should surely be proportional to the crime.

 

[Sandikan]

You kidding? If in the group of 10 people there is 1 person with different skin colour sitting on the bench, of course the easiest way is to identify by colour FFS.

It's weird isn't it.
As if anyone would say "the guy with the coat with the red zip on" from a distance.

We'll see what is said after the game though. Is this just about the colour or is it about a perceived actual racist term.

 

[kouroux]

Context is everything. The best example is the Negro League, today MLB broadcasters will say negro in that context and it won't be a problem because the context of the usage of the word is set and understood. Now if the same broadcaster use that term in a totally different setting, you can bet that it will raise eyebrows.

@kouroux do you think that it would be received positively if a french referee said "Le noir là-bas."? I don't know why but it sounds weird, not necessarily racist but awkward.

I' d say it's an expression that's asking for trouble. Specially in a UEFA context where racism is supposed to be fought, just avoid uncertainties. I still don't get the need to describe someone by the color of his skin when he is in front of you and you can easily point at him

 

[Cassidy]

He definitely shouldn't have said it and he should apologize, but I can somewhat understand him doing it more out of obliviousness than out of malice.

I'm not defending what he said, but he should get a chance to at least apologize and explain himself.

Edit: apparantly this ref refused to stop a match after the crowd made jungle sounds against a black player a few years ago. So maybe the intent was as bad as the words after all.

Ohh interesting edit

 

[Massive Spanner]

I'm a white guy so I've not been in that situation. I ran it past my black mate at work and he can't get any offence from it either.
Maybe it's our generation.

Maybe the player misconstrued it as being a slur rather than a simple description.
Probably best to wait the investigation.

That's the problem I guess, this is predominantly a board full of Caucasians (I assume) which is why we don't have any right to dictate what a black person does or does not find racist.

 

[Eendracht maakt macht]

Are you seriously telling me that you've been in situations where you've said "him, the white guy over there!" or similar? C'mon.

Uh Yes?

 

[Drawfull]

Too offensive, mate.

Ok

 

[Champ]

Too long.

 

[Nani Nana]

As an aside, any black head coaches in European football?

Very disappointed by their lack of representation.

 

[Sigma]

If it were the only white person among a group of blacks, then surely you would do that? I've literally heard Robbie from AFTV say "the black one" when he could think of an opposition player's name.

Let's just wait until the facts are clear. The players were clearly incensed so he may have said worse.

Yeah I agree with you.

 

[duffer]

What should he have said?

"That bloke there".

If they were all black or all white, he would've just pointed him out quite easily without referring to their skin colour.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Where did I tell you that?... Feck knows what happens in the leagues where majority of players are black but I am quite sure that if "him, the white guy over there!" was said, nobody would pay attention.

Yeah and why would that be? Is it cause white people haven't suffered centuries of oppression and slavery across the world and are still fighting for equality even today?