Rafael | Lyon Player

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finneh

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I don't believe age has anything to do with it. LVG made his mind up probably based on his injury record. Rafael's agent said that LVG told him he couldn't count on him.
I competely agree its because he couldn't be relied on. However Jones is similarly injury prone but I suspect is being given a lot of slack because he's younger.

If Rafael were 21 or 22 I bet Van Gaal would be far more likely to take him under his wing, try to find a suitable fitness regime and give him every chance possible.
 

Loublaze

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I competely agree its because he couldn't be relied on. However Jones is similarly injury prone but I suspect is being given a lot of slack because he's younger.

If Rafael were 21 or 22 I bet Van Gaal would be far more likely to take him under his wing, try to find a suitable fitness regime and give him every chance possible.
I don't know about that. LVG only has this season and next and thats it for him in football. When it comes to the first team he's going to be as ruthless as ruthless gets. Jones is not as injury prone as Rafael. He still manages to play a good number of games and actually finish full 90 minutes
 

Bojan11

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Interesting comments about how LVG wants a right back to be.

Just kept constantly reminding me of the second West Brom goal at the Hawthorns.
 

FromTheBench

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The biggest Loser of SAF retiring ? He was absolutely great in SAF's last season.

Bizarre how LVG has completely frozen him out still to me. I mean he might not be perfect but he's been bloody starting and now keeping Valencia.

I don't think it's only about Injuries either which would have been still understandable.

Ah well. :( Good luck wherever you go Rafael. (actually hope he ends up staying in England.)
 

Eric'sCollar

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I'm going to remember the good times until he has officially left

 

MAME DIOUF 32

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I think the problem is that you need squad players to stay fit. There's no point in having a backup to Darmian who's injured when you need to call on him.

I'm gutted about this because Rafael is/was a proper United player. Always gave 100% and aggressive in attack and defence. I think it speaks volumes about him that his brother was considered the outstanding talent but it's him that forced his way into the team and were it not for injuries would be here for a very long time to come.
 

Sam

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That was only 2.5 years ago and it's possible/likely none of those 5 will still be United players come september 1st.
Its mad.

Just watching RVP's goals from his first season, and the team is barely recognisable anymore. Feels like a whole other era, despite being just 3 years ago.
 

stevoc

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Its mad.

Just watching RVP's goals from his first season, and the team is barely recognisable anymore. Feels like a whole other era, despite being just 3 years ago.
Yeah Fergie's last title winning team is gone, sad in a way but it had to be done i guess.
 

tom porter

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I find LVG's comments on Rafael graceless and disrespectful of the fabulous career he had with us before Ferguson retired. I'll be gutted when he leaves as his commitment and passion was top drawer.
 

BennyBlanco

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I find LVG's comments on Rafael graceless and disrespectful of the fabulous career he had with us before Ferguson retired. I'll be gutted when he leaves as his commitment and passion was top drawer.
Sorry, honestly not sure to what comments you're reffering to?
 

izec

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He never mentioned Rafael, he just talked about Darmians qualities. Get over it, I dont see what he did wrong in the press conference
 

B20

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strange how little LvG rates him.
 

devilish

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There ought to be much better clubs happy to take him.
Why? He's a United reject whose also injury prone. Southampton would be a great club for him. The new 'Roberto Carlos' Da Silva ended up at Cardiff
 

stevoc

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Why? He's a United reject whose also injury prone. Southampton would be a great club for him. The new 'Roberto Carlos' Da Silva ended up at Cardiff
Because he is a very good player, who can probably be bought for a low fee. If he gets over his injuries he can still be a top player.

Whats a United ''reject''?

Is Robben a Real reject, or Henry a Juventus reject. Just because it doesn't work out for a player at one big club doesn't mean it can't at another. Many players have turned their career around after leaving big clubs.
 

devilish

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Because he is a very good player, who can probably be bought for a low fee. If he gets over his injuries he can still be a top player.

Whats a United ''reject''?

Is Robben a Real reject, or Henry a Juventus reject. Just because it doesn't work out for a player at one big club doesn't mean it can't at another. Many players have turned their career around after leaving big clubs.
Juventus never wanted Henry to leave. He was being played out wide because Juventus were well stocked upfront, then his patience ran out and he left to Arsenal. I don't know the details about Robben but considering that Real are involved than I guess that they have found a more expensive toy to play with. Rafael's story is quite different though. Our RB had been screaming for quality 2 years before Gaz retired. Instead of United buying a fullback, they went to great measures (playing CBs and wingers there) just to keep on giving Rafael a chance until finally patience ran out.

If I was Rafael and Southampton is an option than I'll go there without thinking it twice. They are a patient club, very youth oriented who had developed players on an industrial scale. They seem quite reasonable when a big club wants their players so if Rafael does manage to succeed in football to attract a big club than rest assured they will not stand too much on his way. He's better off there than to some big club were they expect him to perform immediately or would use him just as a reserve.


There again I always had a soft spot for small clubs who play decent football and run things the proper way
 

stevoc

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Juventus never wanted Henry to leave. He was being played out wide because Juventus were well stocked upfront, then his patience ran out and he left to Arsenal. I don't know the details about Robben but considering that Real are involved than I guess that they have found a more expensive toy to play with. Rafael's story is quite different though. Our RB had been screaming for quality 2 years before Gaz retired. Instead of United buying a fullback, they went to great measures (playing CBs and wingers there) just to keep on giving Rafael a chance until finally patience ran out.

If I was Rafael and Southampton is an option than I'll go there without thinking it twice. They are a patient club, very youth oriented who had developed players on an industrial scale. They seem quite reasonable when a big club wants their players so if Rafael does manage to succeed in football to attract a big club than rest assured they will not stand too much on his way. He's better off there than to some big club were they expect him to perform immediately or would use him just as a reserve.


There again I always had a soft spot for small clubs who play decent football and run things the proper way
Im not saying a move to Southampton wouldn't be good for Rafael it could be.

But don't let his injury problems and that we are letting him go cloud the fact that with his talent he could play for almost anyone.
 

IwatUwat

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Surprised there isnt more interest in him. Assume due to injury prone nature. But he's shown when he gets a run of games he is often able to stay fit for a decent period and is/was for me one of the best RB's in the league.
 

devilish

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Im not saying a move to Southampton wouldn't be good for Rafael it could be.

But don't let his injury problems and that we are letting him go cloud the fact that with his talent he could play for almost anyone.
Well he couldn't play for us despite we've been screaming for a decent right full back for years. It would be better for him to lower his expectations. Big clubs wont be showing the same amount of patience that we did
 

Smores

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He never mentioned Rafael, he just talked about Darmians qualities. Get over it, I dont see what he did wrong in the press conference
You don't think he should have made a cursory mention of Rafaels service to us? Bit of a strange attitude.

The polite thing to have said was to recognise Rafael service and then gone on to say why Darmian offers us XYZ options.

He may have been reserved in his wording due to ongoing negotiations perhaps but a polite cursory remark isn't much effort.

See no need to pointlessly defend LvG from such small valid criticism just because he's our manager. It won't be the last time hes accused of such behaviour.
 

Pogue Mahone

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You don't think he should have made a cursory mention of Rafaels service to us? Bit of a strange attitude.

The polite thing to have said was to recognise Rafael service and then gone on to say why Darmian offers us XYZ options.

He may have been reserved in his wording due to ongoing negotiations perhaps but a polite cursory remark isn't much effort.

See no need to pointlessly defend LvG from such small valid criticism just because he's our manager. It won't be the last time hes accused of such behaviour.
That's for sure. So I don't see the point in getting riled up over nothing when he's bound to say something properly controversial at any time. In that particular presser the stuff about Valdes really was the sort of thing people can criticise. The Rafael/Darmian comments were nothing really. Just him bigging up the new boy.
 

BAMSOLA

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Surprised there isnt more interest in him. Assume due to injury prone nature. But he's shown when he gets a run of games he is often able to stay fit for a decent period and is/was for me one of the best RB's in the league.
Only United supporters are surprised at the lack of interest in him from any serious clubs.
 

stevoc

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Well he couldn't play for us despite we've been screaming for a decent right full back for years.
I'm not sure what that even means to be honest. He arrived in 2008 when Brown was our first choice RB, quickly established himself as first choice and despite his injury problems has played the best part of 200 games for United averaging 25-30 games a season, not bad.

He does get injured a lot but which member of our defensive line since around 2007 doesn't bar Evra?

If the sole driving force behind this movement to get rid of Evans and Rafael was because they are injury prone then Jones and Smalling would be following them out the door. The fact they are not suggests it's more about Evans and Rafa not fitting into LVG's philosophy.


It would be better for him to lower his expectations. Big clubs wont be showing the same amount of patience that we did
I have no idea what his expectations are but i would imagine he will have no problems getting a CL club most likely in Italy or Portugal.
 

devilish

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I'm not sure what that even means to be honest. He arrived in 2008 when Brown was our first choice RB, quickly established himself as first choice and despite his injury problems has played the best part of 200 games for United averaging 25-30 games a season, not bad.

He does get injured a lot but which member of our defensive line since around 2007 doesn't bar Evra?

If the sole driving force behind this movement to get rid of Evans and Rafael was because they are injury prone then Jones and Smalling would be following them out the door. The fact they are not suggests it's more about Evans and Rafa not fitting into LVG's philosophy.

.
Wes Brown was never a natural right back. He was just one of the many CBs which was thrown there to accommodate the smooth transition between Gaz and Rafael similarly as many others did like Jones and Smalling. Valencia was also played as RB for the very same reason. Gaz was first team RB back then playing around 28 games back in 2008. That's more games than Rafael played during the 2009-2010, 2011-2012 and the 2014-2015 season and nearly at par to what he played in 2010-11 and 2013-2014. We're talking here of a then 33-34 year old full back who was already carrying his share of injuries. In matter of fact Rafael was only able to beat the 40 games mark in just 1 season. Gaz did it consistently between 1998 and 2005, went close in the 2006-2007 with 35 and then the injuries started kicking in. So seriously no one can argue that Rafael isn't unreliable and a crock.

Regarding Jones and Smalling well they also have an injury prone record but there again Rome was not built in 1 day. Some will leave now while others will leave in 1-2 seasons time if they cant improve
 

stevoc

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Wes Brown was never a natural right back. He was just one of the many CBs which was thrown there to accommodate the smooth transition between Gaz and Rafael similarly as many others did like Jones and Smalling. Valencia was also played as RB for the very same reason. Gaz was first team RB back then playing around 28 games back in 2008. That's more games than Rafael played during the 2009-2010, 2011-2012 and the 2014-2015 season and nearly at par to what he played in 2010-11 and 2013-2014. We're talking here of a then 33-34 year old full back who was already carrying his share of injuries. In matter of fact Rafael was only able to beat the 40 games mark in just 1 season. Gaz did it consistently between 1998 and 2005, went close in the 2006-2007 with 35 and then the injuries started kicking in. So seriously no one can argue that Rafael isn't unreliable and a crock.

Regarding Jones and Smalling well they also have an injury prone record but there again Rome was not built in 1 day. Some will leave now while others will leave in 1-2 seasons time if they cant improve
Sorry who exactly is trying to say this, what is it we're talking about here?

I don't remember mentioning it, in fact i think i have mentioned several times now he is injury prone and has injury problems.

It's also harsh to criticize the amount of games he played last season, that wasn't because of injury but mostly because he was frozen out by LVG, i think he was fit from Febuary onwards.

Anyway my initial point which seems to have been lost in this trip down memory lane is Rafael as a player is super talented and potentially one of the best in europe. He has injury problems but so do a lot of young players, i can see a relatively big CL team taking a chance on him.
 

RedDevilCanuck

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LVG has been pretty ruthless and it's been good for the club for the most part.

But Rafael should have been playing when he was fit this season.
 

devilish

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Sorry who exactly is trying to say this, what is it we're talking about here?

I don't remember mentioning it, in fact i think i have mentioned several times now he is injury prone and has injury problems.

It's also harsh to criticize the amount of games he played last season, that wasn't because of injury but mostly because he was frozen out by LVG, i think he was fit from Febuary onwards.

Anyway my initial point which seems to have been lost in this trip down memory lane is Rafael as a player is super talented and potentially one of the best in europe. He has injury problems but so do a lot of young players, i can see a relatively big CL team taking a chance on him.
I much doubt it. He's 25 and he has produced just 1 decent league as a regular full teamer. His career was plunged in injuries and while he's excellent in going forward he's rash in terms of defending. Much bigger names in his circumstances had not been able to continue playing at top levels, one of which was Paul Parker Gaz, predecessor. The fact that he's Brazilian (apologies if it does sound a bit xenophobic but Brazilian talent do have a reputation of not fulfilling their potential or have their career cut short for one reason or another) doesn't help.

I cant think of a better club for him than Southampton TBH.

a- they need him desperately having lost Clyne
b- they are a proper club who would help him get back on his feet and develop
c- they will keep him in the EPL. Rafael is considered as homegrown talent and if he does well with Southampton then he could easily end up a top club (ex Shaw and Schneiderlin) or Liverpool
b- they are not so stingy in terms of fees asked for the player.

Who knows, if he defeats the odds and show some consistency at Southampton he may end up being returning to United. Valencia won't last forever and Darmian can easily slot in the LB role
 

NL Max

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I much doubt it. He's 25 and he has produced just 1 decent league as a regular full teamer. His career was plunged in injuries and while he's excellent in going forward he's rash in terms of defending. Much bigger names in his circumstances had not been able to continue playing at top levels, one of which was Paul Parker Gaz, predecessor. The fact that he's Brazilian (apologies if it does sound a bit xenophobic but Brazilian talent do have a reputation of not fulfilling their potential or have their career cut short for one reason or another) doesn't help.

I cant think of a better club for him than Southampton TBH.

a- they need him desperately having lost Clyne
b- they are a proper club who would help him get back on his feet and develop
c- they will keep him in the EPL. Rafael is considered as homegrown talent and if he does well with Southampton then he could easily end up a top club (ex Shaw and Schneiderlin) or Liverpool
b- they are not so stingy in terms of fees asked for the player.

Who knows, if he defeats the odds and show some consistency at Southampton he may end up being returning to United. Valencia won't last forever and Darmian can easily slot in the LB role
They have already signed a rightback as his replacement. Would like to see Rafael go to a good club where he gets appreciated though.
 

stevoc

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I cant think of a better club for him than Southampton TBH.
I can, perhaps not in terms of wages but in stature and CL prospects certainly. He has been linked to Roma and Benfica wouldn't surprise me if he went to either.

Who knows, if he defeats the odds and show some consistency at Southampton he may end up being returning to United. Valencia won't last forever and Darmian can easily slot in the LB role
If he leaves he will never be back even if he gets over his injuries and fulfills his potential, why would he want to return to a club that froze him out completely and got rid of him.

Nah once he leaves that will be it.
 

Sonny1972

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Because he is a very good player, who can probably be bought for a low fee. If he gets over his injuries he can still be a top player.

Whats a United ''reject''?

Is Robben a Real reject, or Henry a Juventus reject. Just because it doesn't work out for a player at one big club doesn't mean it can't at another. Many players have turned their career around after leaving big clubs.



Or Bergkamp a Inter reject/Van der Sar a Juve reject .
 

devilish

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I can, perhaps not in terms of wages but in stature and CL prospects certainly. He has been linked to Roma and Benfica wouldn't surprise me if he went to either.

If he leaves he will never be back even if he gets over his injuries and fulfills his potential, why would he want to return to a club that froze him out completely and got rid of him.

Nah once he leaves that will be it.
I cant speak about Benfica, although the Portuguese league isn't what it used to be. However I have been following the Serie A since forever so I know Roma well. Their fans absolutely adore those who give their heart to the team but won't be that keen for players who vanish in the treatment room for much of the season. They may easily take it as someone trying to get a free meal.

Southampton is ideal, they are a proper club who give players a second chance and are followed by most of the EPL clubs. In the past 2 years half of their squad moved to a better team. That would be the ideal stepping stone for a player with a point to prove.

Also I cant understand why he wouldnt want to return to United if he does well. So many players have left big clubs only to return few years later. Pique, Fabregas and our own Hughes did so. Beckham would have loved to retire at United. Football is a small industry with few highly skilled players contended by a lesser number of top clubs. There's no place for people to hold grudges.
 

devilish

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Or Bergkamp a Inter reject/Van der Sar a Juve reject .
Bergkamp moved to a club who hasn't won the talk in half a decade in a league which clearly lagged behind the Serie A. Van Der Sar moved first to Fulham
 
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