Utter disaster of an appointment.
I'm not listening to football hipsters ever again.
I'm not listening to football hipsters ever again.
Ralf Rangnick | ex-interim manager | does anyone rate him?
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Good fecking riddance to him. A complete waste of time. And a well-deserved humbling to the "but but he isn't hired to be a manager, his role is to be a consultant upstairs" brigade in this thread.
Ten Hag's only been here a week and he's taken over Ralf's role of sacking all the backroom staff.
Apparently only honest guy who speaks truth.
Good fecking riddance to him. A complete waste of time. And a well-deserved humbling to the "but but he isn't hired to be a manager, his role is to be a consultant upstairs" brigade in this thread.
My 2 cents from the other Rangnick thread:
For anyone still making excuses for this fraud, just look at what has happened in Nottingham today. Steve Cooper is twice the manager Wreck-It was. Oh look it is actually possible to take over a broken team and get them playing again. Cooper took Forest from 24th to PL. All Wreck-It had to do was get from 5th to 4th.
good points. i dont hate rangnick, i think his system was ill-suited to players in our disposal from the get go, however his cult is really annoying and for some reason held a very vicious view toward Ole. Ole with all his faults is a club's legend, only had best interest for man united in his heart, and never talked bad about club. Anyway Ralf's gone now, the cult members can watch him exposing Austria NT now.
Do you think his days were numbered when he says he doesn't know what Darren Fletcher does?
Exactly. It’s unfortunate that in COVID years it make the move of certain players difficult. The division in dressing room became so much is beyond anyone’s thought. I guess if given another chance, would ole still give green light to sign Ronaldo? Or, maybe he can be bold enough to Pogba situation? Maybe he will prioritize the midfield? No one knows.
Difficult to say. It will certainly be interesting to see how the dynamic between Fletcher and Ten Hag works out.
If he is as hands on with training as he was during Rangnicks time it will be a disaster. Ten Hag will not put up with that. (rightfully so)
That's all I am saying man. But apparently that wasn't his job according to the cult. Making it a bit tougher to get our 1st choice targets by wrecking our season, got saved from Europa conference by Brighton.For anyone still making excuses for this fraud, just look at what has happened in Nottingham today. Steve Cooper is twice the manager Wreck-It was. Oh look it is actually possible to take over a broken team and get them playing again. Cooper took Forest from 24th to PL. All Wreck-It had to do was get from 5th to 4th.
Fletcher was helping Ralf out in training due to lack of experienced coaches and he was glad of the help from his comments. If he is present during training under ETH it will be because Erik sees value in his presence.
Not everything needs to be painted as a negative.
Probably the only bit of luck we've had this season as well. From 3 points off 4th and the CL spots to relying on Brighton to save us from ending up in Europes 3rd tier competition. What a turnaround, not one positive from the age of Rangnick.
You think Fletcher will be coaching and sitting in the dug out if ETH doesn't want him to?
I hope not
It looks like people are coming with dramatic scenes for everything just for the sake of it.
How do you explain Rangnicks comment about not knowing what it is Fletcher does, if he was the one asking him to be on the sidelines?
He was asked about Fletcher role at the club which is technical director, not what's his role on the training ground or dug out.
Here is the article.
Ralf Rangnick lauds Darren Fletcher despite not knowing Manchester United technical director’s exact role
By Anthony Hay
Ralf Rangnick lauds Darren Fletcher despite not knowing Manchester United technical director's exact role.
Manchester United interim manager Ralf Rangnick has praised technical director Darren Fletcher while also admitting he doesn’t know the Scotsman’s exact role.
Fletcher, 38, has been sitting alongside Rangnick in the dugout and has also helped to run training sessions following the departures of assistant first-team coaches Michael Carrick and Kieran McKenna in December.
The tasks he has been performing are more aligned to a first-team coach rather than a technical director but Rangnick has made it clear he is happy to have the former United midfielder on his staff.
Rangnick, speaking ahead of his side’s away encounter at Leeds, said of Fletcher: “Well, I can only talk about what I’ve experienced in the last 11 to 12 weeks. He has always been part of almost every training session and each game.
“Whenever I have had a question about what he thinks, because he obviously knows the players, he has known them for a long time. I could always, and will always, ask him for his opinion. So it is good to have him in the team.
“What is his role in with regard to the club? I don’t really know, to be honest. I can only tell you what is happening in the training sessions, around the training sessions and around the games. In those areas, it is good to have him on board.”
If this is true, then Rangnick with his kind of football and his penchant for perfection was just a terrible, terrible choice from the board.
Very weird decision to hire a manager who is known for totally different style as care taker for just a few months.
Considering today's development (annulment of the consultancy role) the decision to go for Rangnick looks even more weird.
As a fan I would not be very confident regarding to the board's decision and vision of the future of United.
But hey what do I know? I'm just an opposition fan far from being an expert about your club. Hope ETH works out for you guys and that you can at least start to enjoy watching United games again next season.
The choice on who to hire as the place holder was limited, and whoever the club hired was going to be someone that was going to at the very least attempt to coach a highly intense play style, which was in-line with the modern football principles.
But what transpired was we lost several first team coaches and Rangnick's job became even more difficult. And he made it even more difficult for himself by alienating a already fractured dressing room.
What a hopeless twit he was.
I’m all for upgrading parts of our squad but the way he man-managed our players, including trashing them in public, ensured that not one of them played to his potential and all said and done probably cost us 4th place.
I sort of agreed with his slagging off the squad at the time but, really, RR was the very reason so many of them were playing badly.
His energy and enthusiasm for the job was at zero by about week 5. But there we might speculate about the underlying cause of that. Was it just the deficiencies of the players or could he see already that the club were not going to listen to him?
Either way he was a truly shit coach.
I’m all for upgrading parts of our squad but the way he man-managed our players, including trashing them in public, ensured that not one of them played to his potential and all said and done probably cost us 4th place.
I sort of agreed with his slagging off the squad at the time but, really, RR was the very reason so many of them were playing badly.
His energy and enthusiasm for the job was at zero by about week 5. But there we might speculate about the underlying cause of that. Was it just the deficiencies of the players or could he see already that the club were not going to listen to him?
Either way he was a truly shit coach.
Absolutely. It's just baffling how so many people choose to overlook this....just because he gave nice pressers.
I called it earlier. Said he'd be gone by September, I think it was. But this is even better. Ten Hag's response was telling though..."That is on the club!" We should have figured then that Wreck-It was doomed.
Moyes > Ralf
Just an idiotic decision to hire him as an interim manager now he's not even going to continue on as a consultant. Thought the idea of him staying on for a couple of years after assessing the squad was the whole point FFS.
Don’t think it was idiotic, it just didn’t work out?
There isn’t a law saying we had to stick with him no matter what and having him say we basically need a new squad showed him up (to me )that he didn’t know what to do with these players. That shit was never realistic and it was probably best he moved on
hiring someone whose strengths were in long term strategic planning for a short term stint seemed a bit weird particularly given his recent record of managing clubs for the last two seasons out of ten. It was only made to seem vaguely sensible by his role post the management stint which always seemed rather ill defined. Realistically ralf is much better qualified for murtoughs job than he is
Appointing ralf isn't a case of a correct decision just not working out its something that didn't make sense from the off, if you gave it a little thought. That's also ignoring the fact no one at the club had given a new manager any thought before sacking ole. Something that seems very much part of murtoughs role
Well…. Here we are. Probably 30-50 pages back, after the appointment of Ten Hag and news of Ralf escaping to be the Austria coach, I said I doubted that Ralf would work for us in a consultant capacity. Patting myself on the back — sorry — but I always felt that the board was pretty disappointed with Ralf.
The nuggets of information that have come out and the parting of ways makes me think it happened like this:
Ralf came in with great acclaim and fanfare. He was surprised that Carrick and McKenna left, but he personally vouched for two new coaches and a psychotherapist.
The players had never really heard of Ralf. A lot of very experienced players: Ronaldo, Varane, Maguire, Matic, Bruno, Rashford, etc. The first few training sessions, Ralf tried to implement his training and tactics. I think the players found them pretty simplistic and poorly taught. There were reports of this. Players like Ronaldo and Bruno wanted to win now, in any way possible. Maguire, Varane and the defense were not clear on how to play in Ralf’s system, and it wasn’t taught properly. Fred, Matic and McT were constantly being pulled apart by trying to be intwo places at once.
‘Elanga, Telles and Dalot were preferred, alienating Shaw and AWB who weren’t given much chance to play into form. Martial’s situation was handled poorly, as was Lingard’s.
Pre match tactical briefings were poorly organized, from a coach in Russia, sometimes given very late. Since the coaches on site did not prepare the briefings, they were explained badly. The questionable pedigree of the assistant coaches was also an issue.
Darren Fletcher began to hear complaints from the players. Ralf began publicly calling out players for poor performances. Ralf’s quiet, subdued instructions from the sideline weren’t getting across to the players. Fletcher stepped in to bridge the chasm between Ralf and the players, beginning to walk the touch line.
‘After the fixtures became more difficult in the spring, the lack of pre game preparation began to take its toll. Poor showings vs Liverpool and City, along with head scratching starting 11 selections eroded belief even more. Only Ronaldo brilliance prevented a complete collapse against Norwich and Brentford, but the capitulation vs Brighton was when all belief to make the top 6 evaporated. During this time, Ten Hag was appointed and Ralf took the Austria job.
By then, Ralf was becoming more and more direct with blame. He also pointed to himself as a culprit. The club used the Austria appointment to release Ralf from the consultant role.
I think by late February, the board, Arnold, Murtagh and Fletcher concluded that Ralf wasn’t up to the task. Bringing in Fletcher to have a more direct role, they thought they could potentially squeeze 4th.
Now, this mostly paints a picture of the failings of Ralf, but I do think the board was ultimately at fault for this fiasco. They didn’t buy a DM when we desperately needed one, they were the ones who hired Ralf in the first place, and they didn’t have a way of helping Ralf to get the best out of the squad. Also, the players have been dire. Part of that was due to substandard training and pre match preparation, but some of the blame should be put on the players as well.
The nuggets of information that have come out and the parting of ways makes me think it happened like this:
Ralf came in with great acclaim and fanfare. He was surprised that Carrick and McKenna left, but he personally vouched for two new coaches and a psychotherapist.
The players had never really heard of Ralf. A lot of very experienced players: Ronaldo, Varane, Maguire, Matic, Bruno, Rashford, etc. The first few training sessions, Ralf tried to implement his training and tactics. I think the players found them pretty simplistic and poorly taught. There were reports of this. Players like Ronaldo and Bruno wanted to win now, in any way possible. Maguire, Varane and the defense were not clear on how to play in Ralf’s system, and it wasn’t taught properly. Fred, Matic and McT were constantly being pulled apart by trying to be intwo places at once.
‘Elanga, Telles and Dalot were preferred, alienating Shaw and AWB who weren’t given much chance to play into form. Martial’s situation was handled poorly, as was Lingard’s.
Pre match tactical briefings were poorly organized, from a coach in Russia, sometimes given very late. Since the coaches on site did not prepare the briefings, they were explained badly. The questionable pedigree of the assistant coaches was also an issue.
Darren Fletcher began to hear complaints from the players. Ralf began publicly calling out players for poor performances. Ralf’s quiet, subdued instructions from the sideline weren’t getting across to the players. Fletcher stepped in to bridge the chasm between Ralf and the players, beginning to walk the touch line.
‘After the fixtures became more difficult in the spring, the lack of pre game preparation began to take its toll. Poor showings vs Liverpool and City, along with head scratching starting 11 selections eroded belief even more. Only Ronaldo brilliance prevented a complete collapse against Norwich and Brentford, but the capitulation vs Brighton was when all belief to make the top 6 evaporated. During this time, Ten Hag was appointed and Ralf took the Austria job.
By then, Ralf was becoming more and more direct with blame. He also pointed to himself as a culprit. The club used the Austria appointment to release Ralf from the consultant role.
I think by late February, the board, Arnold, Murtagh and Fletcher concluded that Ralf wasn’t up to the task. Bringing in Fletcher to have a more direct role, they thought they could potentially squeeze 4th.
Now, this mostly paints a picture of the failings of Ralf, but I do think the board was ultimately at fault for this fiasco. They didn’t buy a DM when we desperately needed one, they were the ones who hired Ralf in the first place, and they didn’t have a way of helping Ralf to get the best out of the squad. Also, the players have been dire. Part of that was due to substandard training and pre match preparation, but some of the blame should be put on the players as well.
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Right, so just brought in a guy with a track record in club building for a role that has f all to do with club building. Figures I guess. Lesson to learn, don’t ever assume the club will do something logical. You do have to fear for ETH in these circumstances. I mean do they give a feck about what he’s good at either?
The Glazers have proven inept on multiple levels. Yes, the morons leaking idiocy to the lower levels of the organization is clearly going to be an issue. Hopefully ETH will not stand for bullshit.
‘Glad that fraud of a manager is out though.
Yep it's usually a sure sign of a manager realising he's way out of his depth with a season going tits up and trying to convince the world it's all the players fault.
At least ETH is good at managing a squad, I hope. So he is in the right place for the start.
Well, I saw promise in the performances up til Atletico, after which it was dreadful. In hindsight, as cathartic as it may have been, if your only job is top 4 then probably not best idea to tell everyone the squad is shite week after week. Can’t imagine Ancelotti doing that.
Rangnick got dealt a tough hand, but ultimately he failed. We’ll get back to where the club belongs when we don’t tolerate failure, not from Ralf, not from Ole, not from whoever. If they’re not good enough, ship them out and find the staff who can bring back the good times, managers or players.
I don't think his system was ever that good. It was incredibly overrated. RB Liepzig were really not that good under him as a manager. He knew how to talk about what he wanted, but I think he was so one dimensional. His system didn't work in England and his lack of adaptability was completely exposed. I think this is where the gripe from some of the players comes from. Rangnick has been acting like he is some type of tactical guru because people have praised his commentary on the issue. However, he has never implemented at the highest level and I don't think anything he ever did came close to what Klopp or Tuchel have done. His teams never could hold possession and were never dominant. Yet the media and the fans treated him like he was Mourinho, acting like the players had no right to question his methods. It's scary to think that Fulham also experienced this same type of thing with Felix Magath, who had far more success that Rangnick. If Magath had come into manage us, with a similar wealth of experience, our fans and the media would still have bashed the players. The question here is, how does a manager show how bad he is?
I honestly believe that outside of Mourinho, we have actually hired incapable managers who were given far more license than they would at any other top club. Managers who had either previously shown signs of failure, hadn't managed well at the top level prior to arriving or never achieved anything worthwhile ( playing attractive football included) prior. We hired Moyes for absolutely no other reason than being the best of a bad bunch of British managers at the time. LVG was hired based on the football his teams played in the 90s, we did not hire him for his days at Bayern ( which actually looked a bit similar stylistically to what we did with him). He was a manager that had shown to himself to be wasteful in the transfer market prior, willing to waste time and seasons/ world cup qualification to prove tactical points and philosophies. He came here and did the same thing, isolating players for their nationality and generally displaying poor man management skills, yet was still supported. Ole had no prior experience of success or even coaching at an average level prior to coming here. Then you have Rangnick who had only managed for 1 season in the previous 10 years. In that season, his team didn't actually play attractive football, they managed to be a decent team in a quite weak league. Prior to that, he failed at Schalke in 2011, leaving the club due to fatigue after only about 6 or 7 months, winning as many games as he had lost. He came here, didn't mesh well with the players and couldn't implement his weak tactics, then gave up after a few games, deciding to create more toxicity within the squad by talking negatively to the media, something he had done at Milan which is why they didn't even move forward with him. Yes, it is the boards fault for hiring the managers, but our fans need to also appreciate the fact that a lot of our failure over the last 9 seasons has actually been due to who we hired rather than the people above them at the club or the players.
Post Fergie, the club have made a lot of really poor decisions. Usually I will try and remain optimistic and let situations play out, but there are a few decisions that, as a layman, I struggled to understand from the off. Spending £75m in the summer of 2020 without strengthening our first XI was one, but I think appointing Rangnick has been the worst.
For our caretaker manager (who was presumably tasked with getting us top 4 this season), we decided to go with a guy who has built his reputation by taking smaller clubs and over a process of years, via scouting, recruitment, player development, tactical philosophy, turning them into Champions League level clubs. We basically employed a marathon runner to try and win a 100 metre sprint.
The one silver lining was the consultancy. Sure, he might not have the biggest impact on the first team, in the short-term, but we are getting a progressive thinking football man to guide the people at the top, who seem unable to get anything right. But of course it was clear after the initial press conference, that this wasn't some grand masterstroke to progress the club off the pitch and more of a bargaining chip to get him through the door. The final nail in the coffin is delivered today, with the news that he wont be fulfilling the consultancy role.
I actually believe the one good thing Rangnick has done, was turning on the players after it was clear the season was over. This may have been self-serving, but I think what it achieves is it alleviates some of the pressure on ETH coming in. By making an already dire situation, at least appear multitudes worse, he should be given more time to turn things around.
For our caretaker manager (who was presumably tasked with getting us top 4 this season), we decided to go with a guy who has built his reputation by taking smaller clubs and over a process of years, via scouting, recruitment, player development, tactical philosophy, turning them into Champions League level clubs. We basically employed a marathon runner to try and win a 100 metre sprint.
The one silver lining was the consultancy. Sure, he might not have the biggest impact on the first team, in the short-term, but we are getting a progressive thinking football man to guide the people at the top, who seem unable to get anything right. But of course it was clear after the initial press conference, that this wasn't some grand masterstroke to progress the club off the pitch and more of a bargaining chip to get him through the door. The final nail in the coffin is delivered today, with the news that he wont be fulfilling the consultancy role.
I actually believe the one good thing Rangnick has done, was turning on the players after it was clear the season was over. This may have been self-serving, but I think what it achieves is it alleviates some of the pressure on ETH coming in. By making an already dire situation, at least appear multitudes worse, he should be given more time to turn things around.
But sure he probably didn't give a feck if United qualified or not. Seemed like he checked out around February, maybe when he realized he wasn't getting Murtagh's job.
Hipster with no top club experience to be precise
Consider the quotes from the journalists that have given further insight the decision was clearly made from the club. ETH comments about Ragnick also was telling when questioned about his consultancy role. At the end of the day Ragnicks speciality is currently occupied by John Murtough, his influence therefore in a consultancy role was always going to be less substantial. The club should have hired a proper manager to attain top four football and come to some agreement to release the said individual after the season campaign was over.
Sam Allardyce would have been a better choice!
Jokes aside, it is really embarrassing we missed on Conte. He was practically begging to get hired by us. But no, we wanted Ralf, a nobody! Amazing decisions by this club.
Jokes aside, it is really embarrassing we missed on Conte. He was practically begging to get hired by us. But no, we wanted Ralf, a nobody! Amazing decisions by this club.
No, it was the squad that was dealt a tough hand. They were thrown from one incapable manager to another incapable manager. Some of our players are world class players, but Ole and Ralf definitely are NOT world class managers. Our main problem was the bad managers, not the bad squad.
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