A good permanent manager would've had us easily 4th. However the whole interim manager aspect meant there was always the risk that the players wouldnt get on board (which they clearly didnt) and play for someone who wouldnt be there in 6 months. I mea professional pride should have come into it but when you're picking up 200k a week regardless I dont think that matters!
Ralf Rangnick | ex-interim manager | does anyone rate him?
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A good permanent manager would've had us easily 4th. However the whole interim manager aspect meant there was always the risk that the players wouldnt get on board (which they clearly didnt) and play for someone who wouldnt be there in 6 months. I mea professional pride should have come into it but when you're picking up 200k a week regardless I dont think that matters!
Consultants don't make decisions though, they make suggestions. And Ralf said himself on Friday he doesn't know if the club or ETH will be interested in hearing his suggestions.
Agree. For the long term this seems to be the better option. Had Ralf played into the players massive egos and easily achieved top 4, then there’s no way the United board are even thinking about a massive rebuild(Tbh I think they would have just got Poch in and hoped for the best next season).
Same although everyone says this but there is a cut off point(Depending on how Newcastle spend this summer, CL could be very difficult in the near future).
At least there’s some sort of plan now. It isn’t just get a new manager and hope he is the next Fergie.
Err no. And with respect that fan mindset is part of the problem.
We have a squad of players mostly unsuited to high press football. They have also not been coached properly for years. And some just aren't that good anyway. And they exist within a culture where the club sees results as secondary to brand success and makes decisions accordingly so they've become uncompetitive.
These are deep fundamental problems, not solved by mindset adjustments and a splashy signing. And letting the club think they can get away without a fundamental restructure is music to their ears.
A miracle? Mid December we were favourites for top 4. He's overseen a shocking set of results since.
By whom we were favorites? Tottenham had 2 points less but 2 games less too.
League table the day he took charge. Imagine thinking we needed a fecking miracle to finish 4th from here
I wouldn't disagree with that mate but here's my problem as of right now we have no idea if any of that's actually happening or even if the club are trying to work towards it that they will be successful in their efforts.
As of April 2022 it isn't even certain that Ralf will be doing any significant work up stairs after this season, in which case the season will have been tanked for nothing. Hell it isn't even certain that he will be moving upstairs at all going off his own comments on the matter on Friday.
So Bailly, Jones, AWB and possibly Lindelof aren't great players.
United shouldn't sign over the hill players in their 30's on huge wages.
We need a few midfielders.
Insightful stuff, it sounds like made up bullshit as I'd hope a man with Rangnicks experience and knowledge of football would be far more insightful in his reports than what your average poster on Redcafe could have told the club over a few pints.
They’re also Spurs. That matters to a lot of people and bookies.
It's stuff I and many others have been saying on here for years (about how poor this squad is) yet people are getting excited about it just because Ralf says it.
That was mistakenly worded, I meant statements put out in the press without direct attribution, such as articles in which unnamed sources say his role will not be DOF or anything similar.
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For all the talk about Rangnick's "great honesty", when he signed for United he said "the squad is full of talent and has a great balance of youth and experience." Was he lying, talking out of his ass, or letting the club just put out whatever in his name?
Sounds to me like we just keep him in the wings until the new manager arrives.
We might tap him for some advice, but whether or not we execute on that advice is another matter.
Honestly after this spell in charge, I wouldnt trust him with making the team lunch let alone transfer decisions or personnel decisions.
Everybody and their mothers knows this team needs rebuilding. But 10-11 players? Thats well overboard. We have a few good players on our books. Its just that the last two managers weren't able to get the best out of them this season. Yes we have plenty of bad apples, but hopefully most will be gone in the summer.
The only reason he is asking for 10-11 players is because he has lost the respect of the players and probably the dressing room. They've not listened to him for whatever reason, and thats a DAMNING failure on his part. How you do that in such a short span of time is beyond me.
Did he not explain the reason for that number in his interview?
Due to a confluence of factors, including poor players needing to be sold, and numerous players leaving the club through end-of-contract, it's entirely reasonable to suggest 8-10 players.
Let's go through them.
1. Paul Pogba - Contract expiration
2. Jesse Lingard - Contract expiration
3. Juan Mata - Contract expiration
4. Edinson Cavani - Contract expiration
5. Lee Grant - Contract expiration
6. Nemanja Matic - Contract expiration
That's 6 voids in the squad as a minimal guarantee. Now, whether you fill them with all transfers or a combination of youth promotion, the fact remains, that's six spots that will be filled one way or another this summer.
How about very possible transfer outgoings?
1. Eric Bailly
2. Aaron Wan-Bissaka
3. Phil Jones
4. Alex Telles
5. Anthony Martial
6. Diogo Dalot
Any of the above, for various reasons, could be sold this summer.
So when you say it's only because he's lost the dressing room, that's vastly ignoring the fact that there will very likely be contractual ends and transfer outgoings, and then a combination of 10-11 signings and youth promotions don't seem quite so improbable.
I understand, apologies. Also I agree he has some uncertainty about the measure of influence and undoubtedly this is because the structure of United is now overhauled. Arnold took charge as CEO only in Feb and Murtough in Nov with a deputy football director role pending.
That said if we look at the changes made following Ralfs open views (hiring Ten Hag, succumbing to the concept of a larger rebuild, overhauling our transfer policy) I think there is much evidence to suggest he is influential in club decision at this point.
Thats immaterial of whether his title is consultant, DoF or anything else.
So exactly what was the point of sacking Solskjaer then?? And Rangnick has contributed absolutely nothing towards a proper structure and reshaping of the squad. His current remit is to focus on the playing side of things and the team. He's had minimal, if no input on things behind the scenes. You really need to think before you post. You're embarrassing yourself.
I like Rangnick and a lot of fans love his press conferences, but I must admit that persuading people actually at the club to buy into his project doesn't seem to be his greatest strength. He said he wanted to keep Martial and Donny in January (both of whom would surely have had some game time by now with the Greenwood thing and our injuries), they both insisted on leaving on loan.
He said he wanted to keep Carrick and McKenna to help with the coaching, they both left (Was Ipswich that great an opportunity? Could Carrick really not have stayed for just another six months before getting some family time? He already stayed for 16 years!). There was that whole episode of miscommunication where he wanted Martial on the bench for a match and ended up with the fans abusing Martial for refusing to play. Something similar but less serious happened with Lingard iirc and something with Sancho and a funeral, I can't remember the specifics. Cavani has hardly bothered to make himself available the whole time Rangnick is here.
Again, I don't want to be too critical of him because I think he was conned by the board, just like a lot of fans were, about this vague promise of 'two-year consultancy' and ended up taking an interim manager job he's unsuited for, causing poor results on the pitch and a hit to his reputation.
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Wish I knew. I can only assume that the various football managers had so many things to do and think about, it was always not the number 1 priority.
But in reality, that is not any sort of excuse.
Someone has got to get to grips with the terribly badly balance in the squad and fix it.
Yeah, and the fact that he doesn't even want to give his all in the consultancy role, saying he can only dedicate 6 days a month to us, just advising our talentless club administration and clueless board, makes the whole arrangement shitty
The squad is shit already. He’s just got the integrity to be honest about it.
I don’t have to, look at our performances over the last six months. However, do tell me how things have improved.
Absolutely. You can see that it's the Ole inners and the Pok fans who are jumping on the back of Ralf. Everyone knows that he is temporary and now we know he is honest to call it and the club cannot sweep it under the carpet anymore. It's out in black and white.
That Woodward rumour has been widely shut down. What a ridiculous round about way to make your point. Again it seems you don’t understand the wider purpose of Rangnick’s role, which was also to assess the squad overall and not provide short-term bandaid fixes. He will stay in a consultancy role and his opinions should be given weight since they’ve been bang on so far.
To start again. He needed to be sacked 6 months before he was.
You're just being rather dim if you think Ralf is the root cause of the team performances.
Not sure how many times simple things need to be repeated to you, that's what's embarrassing. The players dont listen, they've chewn up other managers who had bought them in the first place. No manager had a fair crack in interim, they don't work and they're out the door in the summer.
Thats not on Ralf. Get that tattooed or something because you're really struggling with the root cause here.
Out xG for and against have improved.
Ralf’s entire job this season should have been to rebuild morale in the squad and get them in good shape for the next manager - and obviously then give an honest report to the board and ETH about the strengths and weaknesses of the squad.
Instead, he seems to have destroyed the morale even further, got nothing out of what remains a top 4 quality squad and given unhelpful soundbites in the press, which largely seem intended to avoid him taking any responsibility. The fact he’s been able to pull the wool over so many peoples eyes is remarkable.
Did you think that Ralf would do a better job when he was appointed then Ole had been doing up until that point? Or did you feel he had no chance at all?
For example
I thought you could go further than 4th under Rangnick. you had a good run of fixtures coming up, and that there would be a few surprises for some teams over the winter periods. I didnt think you would be in the title conversation but you could touch 3rd or even 2nd at best.
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I’m pretty sure ETH’s assessment of the squad will be of more significance than a failed interim-turned-consultant. Unless you think the club are going to take decision making power away from the manager and place it in the hands of someone who doesn’t actually work for the club.
I was very much against appointing ole from the start so not sure your claim holds up.
If the squad ralf took over was shit from the start and he didn't think be could improve it through coaching maybe he shouldn't have taken the job rather than massively underwhelming and moaning constantly.
Don't get me wrong I am aware there are issues with the squad but I just don't see the benefit of the manager being at odds with the whole squad
Ralfs fault
And what about the results?
Out of the cups, out of the Top 4, sliding down the table amidst a pile of embarrassing performances, and squad morale at an all-time low. He’s been a shambles from start to finish and shown no interest in trying to lay foundations for the next manager. But yeah, he has the insight and courage to blame it all on the players and expertly recommend that we buy a new squad. If he really was here to honestly assess the squad, then he would keep his mouth shut in the press and work with the board behind the scenes. But no, he’s more interested in pointing fingers as publicly as possible. It’s straight from the book of Mourinho, except he has this ambiguous ‘consultant’ label to buy over the gullible.
Most of these players have practically no contribution. 2 to 6 add up to 3000 minutes of football played, same number as a single starter.
I'm pretty you're just playing dim. Nobody said Rangnick was the root cause of the problem but he was brought in to address it. If the team aren't listening, sort it out or tell the board it ain't working out and leave. The situation is a lot worse now so in that respect he has failed miserably. If you can't see that, you're just a troll.
In terms of his other remit then, exactly what has he done to reshape the squad and structure. What has he done in terms of his role other than managing the team?
Can you at least tell me that? I'm all ears.
While true, that doesn't take into account:League table the day he took charge. Imagine thinking we needed a fecking miracle to finish 4th from here
- Our absolutely atrocious form at the end of last season
- How badly we were playing in the Champions League (it was a miracle we had any points at all to be quite honest)
- The various players allowed by the previous management to wind their contracts down: with one eye on their next club, it was always going to be a challenge to get Lingard, Pogba, Matic and Cavani to remain motivated for the rest of the season no matter what.
As much as I want to agree that Rangnick has been poor, because it's true that if he'd played 'nice' and handled things with kids gloves maybe we'd have squeezed our way in to a poor top four - it's obvious at this point that he's finally, FINALLY overseeing an -actual- reconstruction of our club with less of a focus on nepotism and to bring in people who will do what needs to be done to drag Manchester United kicking and screaming into the 21st century at last.
And it's honestly a pleasure seeing some -truth- for once instead of those instagram "we go again happyfacehappyface armbicep" platitudinous garbage quotes written by teams of social media engineers. I'm pleased to see that changes are being made and that people are FINALLY being held to account for their shocking attitudes or incompetence.
I'd rather we sort ourselves out now than pretend everything is rosy like Arsenal are doing. They are absolutely awful and even at our worst we deserved to beat them yesterday, and beat them before. If they get fourth that's papering over the cracks, same as we've done finishing 2nd and 3rd the last two seasons when we almost got there by default. Not good enough at the minute.
How many games did those with expiring contracts play? I agree some need to replaced, but others were simply fecking passengers this season. Just here to take a wage and do feck all.
I also find it confusing why he would want to sign 10 players when he was the one who said that our squad was too bloated?
Absolute fraud of a manager. Flip flopping all over the place. The fraud is just trying to make a point to the players right now through the press. Its clear to see. Show em whos boss. He has feck all to lose because in all likelihood he will be gone and never to be seen again after this stint. Hopefully nowhere near my club.
On a last note, good luck trying to transfer Phil Jones
Or any of those players on that list actually. We've been trying for years to offload dalot. We've still managed to feckup offloading andreas perreira and he is on a small contract. Lets not talk about offloading any of the other players on high wages.This. But it’s not everyone it seems who understands the purpose of Rangnick’s appointment, which in my view comes down to a lack of education, short-termism and an odd affinity to Ole. If the objective was top 4 at all costs, we would’ve hired Conte. However, Murtough seems to have taken a long-term approach by having a good evaluator of talent take an objective no holds barred view of the squad. I am fairly certain Murtough and co. would want to understand how and why this assembled group of overpaid and wasteful feckers keep failing. Unfortunately some on here are more concerned about a top 4 trophy to see the bigger picture.
In my view it comes from the fact that your idea of his appointment is contradicted by everything that anyone involved has ever said.
Have you bothered following the latest developments? He trashed the policy of recruitment and the next day its announced our head scouts are sacked with likely focus on analytics.
He said a month or more ago its clear we need a young striker and Luckhurst I believe reported Matt Judge has been enquiring in the PL specifically for a young striker.
He said we need more physicality in the forefront and dont be surprised to see us focus there too.
He wanted ETH and that was against some influencial people in the board and some ex players and we got ETH.
His remit is beyond the pitch right now, and regardless of his coy nature on his influence publicly I think its clear he has already had a strong influence on decisions made structurally.
He even says I have my opinions, its up to the board to follow. Hes smart in positioning himself this way in case it goes tits up but it's clear everything hes suggested is being acted upon already.
See, my line of thinking is: Which kind of coach could have been more successful? Certainly no coach who wants to press intensely. So if your board finally made the (correct and long due) decision to implement a modern playing style (and that involves pressing, like it or not), it makes sense to appoint an interim who wants to play that way himself.
I mean, it is clear that you have to adapt a modern style. Now.imagine you brought somebody in who implemented a more comervative approach and was actually succesful with it - do you think the board and fans would feel the same urge to overhaul the squad as they do now?
I think ypu're being very short term oriented with your analysis
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