I said had power to do something about it. He could or could not change anything. Nobody knows. But an insider saying right things and could influence the rebuild is better than you me tom dick and harry screaming the same thing and can't do anything about it. That's my point.
Ralf Rangnick's consultancy role has been scrapped
- Thread starter L1nk
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Yeah. Its a bit weird hearing his harshest critics now claiming the statement that we needed 6 - 10 new players is common knowledge, when at the time they where busy laughing at the statement...
That's a great example of what I'm talking about.
Let me ask... This sticking point, how many players he said we needed and that we needed big changes. Was it really that big of deal? Will it be looked on as pivotal in the history of United years from now? Will there be statues? Will his fans create a religion similar to Scientology but with patterns of play instead of Dianetics?
Really?
Clubs decide to form European Super League. Massive outrage from fans, media and even the government. Clubs decide to bin the idea.
United goes in for Arnautovic. Fans and media deride the idea. United decides NOT to go in for Arnautovic.
What you're saying simply is not true. Clubs don't live in a bubble. They're fully aware of what is going on outside the club. You don't need to be an insider to have an influence. We've seen it time and time again.
They would have seen and heard Neville's ramblings. It's usually when the backlash is too strong that they decide to pull the trigger on managers.
So why you're making out that Rangnick would have exclusive influence on the decision makers is just, with all due respect, bullshit. And he had zero power, let's just get that straight. He was a consultant...a consultant who's role wasn't even clarified. So how do you know what influence he had?
Let me ask... This sticking point, how many players he said we needed and that we needed big changes. Was it really that big of deal? Will it be looked on as pivotal in the history of United years from now? Will there be statues? Will his fans create a religion similar to Scientology but with patterns of play instead of Dianetics?
Really?
Did I hit a nerve?
No.... You didn't, but you know that. I guess this is your attempt to shift and not answer the question?
Did I hit a nerve?
So is there still anyone who thinks it was good to scrap that role? Would we be better or worse off?
We do need someone who knows what a modern competitive squad should look like and is able to assemble it, we've needed this person since ages, no amount of new roles we create are going to compensate for that.
RR may or may not have been that person, but when we hired him, he was the closest we got to having that person, albeit after half a season. We looked like we had a plan, and then we hire EtH and don't know what happened but we somehow fecked it up.
I think the people arguing on behalf of RR are doing so more because of the importance and requirement of that kind of role rather than RR in particular.
RR may or may not have been that person, but when we hired him, he was the closest we got to having that person, albeit after half a season. We looked like we had a plan, and then we hire EtH and don't know what happened but we somehow fecked it up.
I think the people arguing on behalf of RR are doing so more because of the importance and requirement of that kind of role rather than RR in particular.
I wouldn't say it was good but he didn't fill me with confidence. Personally I think it could have been a disaster. The guy had no filter. To the extent that he fell out with everyone and got fired. How would that have gotten any better? More likely to get worse.
So in light of that I'm thinking he's gone and it's not that big of a deal. Let's make the changes we need to make and get someone else if needed.
That would be fine. Some of them aren't though and are exaggerating his importance.
That could be argued either way to be honest, I'd rather we had tried than not. So yeah, I am gutted we (had to?) let him go.
Oh but it seems I did given how you started talking about cults and statues etc, out of nowhere.
Several people laughed at the idea that we needed massive changes to the squad at the time. Now when even ETH (who is an actual great manager) is having issues, and its clear to everyone that Ralf was correct in his assessment, suddenly it was common sense the whole time.
You cant have it both ways. If he was a complete idiot, like you and several others claim, how come what he said was common sense?
Rangnick was an utter complete failure as manager. But his assessment of the squad was spot on. Something that several of you would NOT admit at the time.
His proposed transfer targets where reasonable and would have strengthened our squad, instead we are now scrambling.
Rangnick is not and was never some genious manager. But he does know a thing or two about making a club function well, at least he knows more then the idiots currently running the club.
Thats all.
No cult, no statues.
Wouldn't have made an iota of difference. He was to be a consultant in a vaguely defined advisory role. If it's true that EtH wasn't keen on working with him, then that's him basically sidelined anyway, so why pay him to offer unwanted advice?
He simply spoke common sense, a lot of the stuff everyone can see apart from our currently leadership. Make a plan on what football you want to play. Hire the staff that will help you find the right players and managers to play that style.
Really nothing outrages, but apparently too complicated for the idiots in charge of our club.
I dont believe that. He has an extensive knowledge of talented players, can negotiate and continue to give feedback to EtH regarding his team. Sobit could have made a big difference
He was a consultant yes. No one knows what was in the contract or was there going to be a new contract? All speculation. Just because we don't know we cannot conveniently assume he had no power. It just going to one extreme to make a point. Point is, for once there was an insider who was making right noise and now he is gone for whatever reason. Even if we assume there was 1 in thousand chance of him getting it done then it is still better than outsiders like we and Gary Neville who have zero chance of getting done what we want. Our noise is just....noise. His noise was carrying weight however tiny it might be.
Different squad? Come on mate, if anything the additions of Ronaldo, Varane and Sancho and no major departures would work out more favourably for Rangnick in this comparison.
It isn't logical to cherry pick competitions either.
While it certainly wasn't all his fault, the clubs win ratio last season was worse post Rangnick than it was under Solskjaer/Carrick.
Wrong again! There were clamours for a reset even before Solskjaer eventually got the boot.
This rewriting of history just to fit the Rangnick narrative is getting more and more ridiculous. I'm sure people are just making stuff up now.
proper revisionism going on.
Its exactly what happened. I vividly remember several in the old thread laughing at the idea that this team needed this many new players. Ole's second place finish with the same squad was given repeatedly as the prove that Rangnick was wrong.
So are you saying that United have never listened to the 'noise' as you unfairly put it? We just saw it again with the Arnautovic transfer. Rangnick's 'noise' carried no weight whatsoever....he left to manage Austria. He lost all credibility by the shitshow of an interim manager role he had for 6 months.
And enough of the "well his strength was building clubs, not managing teams" bullshit. After that abject performance (which, let's be clear, WAS HIS MAIN BRIEF), I would not have him anywhere near the club, full stop!
Yeah on paper it did look great and everyone was optimistic at the start of the season when we got Varane, Sancho and Ronaldo. But when it started getting toxic for Solskjaer, everyone knew things had to change, especially with the players.
For real!
It's okay. We can carry on with our own opinions and deductions.
But then why did some people use Solskjaers 2nd place finish to bash Rangnicks comments about the squad?
you are participating.
To be fair, is it possible to compare RR's stats with any other 'Interim Manager' & not necessarily at Manchester United? Probably not, because as far as I'm aware that job title has never been conferred onto a coach, before this. I think it was a bold experiment to do so, but it brings me onto something else: things at Man United are just far to open. Is it because you have shareholders so certain information e.g. staffing has to be in the public domain? Why didn't they make the arrangement with Ralf Rangnick - Manager 6 months/Consultant 24 months - but keep it secret from almost everyone, including the players. He may have had a chance then.
By not doing so he was basically a supply teacher. Worse than that, he was a supply teacher who on his first day shouted at the kids (you lot need to sort yourselves out, stop looking miserable all the time etc. etc.) Rookie error. Then he wanted several of them 'expelled' and replaced with better pupils! Like I said, if it was secret that he was a temporary manager, a hardline approach may have worked, but having the job title 'interim manager' was setting him up to fail. Could he have been less divisive and tried the softly-softly approach? Well I don't think so, because that was Ole Gunnar Solskjærs way of working and that failed too. It was a catch-22 situation.
I have a couple of questions (save me googling): was the Ralf Rangnick arrangement terminated before or after Erik Ten Hag signed up to be the new full-time manager? I ask, because I am curious to know if ETH would have been Ok working under a 'consultant'* and how would that have been different from working under a Director of Football or an ex-Manager/ex-Captain 'thinktank' as he has to now.
*The fact Ralf Rangnick had struggled for 6 months did in my opinion make the plan slightly problematic: how could RR be a consultant supporting ETH off the back off his poor results and 6th place finish, but as I indicated earlier, if it hadn't been common knowledge that he was 'interim', maybe his results would have been better. I assume that even if RR had got a new-manager bounce and finished 4th, the club would have still employed ETH anyway, yes?
Where have I said that then? Actually I think there were smarter ways to go about it. The man got fired (according to some on here), I doubt that was what was intended. Doesn't make you an idiot though.... Naive?
I don't think United need 10 new players, and even if they did in some broad sense, they should not bring in 10 players in one transfer window. It's an insane number.
Negotiate what? He was supposed to be a consultant in an advisory role a few days a month, he'd have no power or authority to negotiate anytjing. And if EtH isn't interested in his feedback, what's the use in giving it?
He can support and advice. We badly needed that
Some people are assuming that he was a consultant to ETH. I don't think he ever was. We don't know that. It's more likely that he is a consultant to the club and the DOF and ETH should have no say in it whatsoever.
Agree, but that requires the structure to be willing to listen and act on the advise. I have no faith that they'd be all that willing to do that.
its pointless to have a consultant, that isn't trusted.
In the pre-game press conference against Brighton EtH said the following:
this is more or less the opposite of RR's position. Some might want to shrug this off as an empty statement, that was just made to calm the media, but United acted exactly as if they believed it. After the first game, that sentiment changed dramatically and after the second game the management seems to be in a state of existential panic.
There have been plenty of Interim managers/coaches over the years. The terms are largely interchangeable everyone knows who is in charge at any particular team whether or not they have the title manager or Head coach.
And Rangnick was officially terminated after Ten Hag took over and did his first press conference etc.
On the last one yeah I don't think anyone (except Ralf) was thinking of the possibility that he would stay on, ETH or another manager was always going to be hired.
Why focus on win ratio when points per game is a more accurate statistic ? You do know there's such a thing as drawing games ? In which both sides get a point ?
It's obviously a more accurate statistic to gauge league form but win ratio is a better indicator of overall form in all competitions.
I've heard rumours yes.
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As a manager at United his record was extremely poor. And his record at other clubs were not great either. His experience was in building clubs. So why on earth did they not use him for what he was good at and then use him for what he was not good at? Show how shite the management of the club is.
100% agree. Even if you didn’t know all that, it was obvious just looking at him that he could not cope with the demands of day-to-day management; he didn’t have the energy for it or the desire to do it. Possibly he thought he could do it before he took the role, who knows, but if so, he soon realised it was a mistake.
I don’t know if there was someone else at the club who could have taken over the interim coaching role so that he could get on with the “upstairs” bit but that might have been better than him soldiering on getting more knackered and more depressed.
Never had the impression that he was depressed or anything. Lets not go painting the picture more colorful than it was.
Yeah, he was fine. A case of transference perhaps.
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