Rasmus Hojlund (Out) | take performance chat to his performance thread

[Cassidy]

Jonathan David is not a 'significantly better striker' than Rasmus Hojlund. He isn't even an out-and-out CF, and a really poor fit for this United system as a result. He's beginning to get vastly over-rated on this forum, probably because he's an impending free agent and gets double figures consistently.

I'm not advocating his signing, but this seems contradictory
Also https://www.whoscored.com/players/383855/show/jonathan-david

 

[Shaw's Shank Redemption]

Jonathan David is not a 'significantly better striker' than Rasmus Hojlund. He isn't even an out-and-out CF I'd argue, and doesn't fit the profile of a striker in an Amorim system.

He's beginning to get vastly over-rated on this forum, probably because he's an impending free agent and gets double figures consistently albeit in a top 4/5 team in a weak league and heavily supplemented by penalties.

David is obviously shit but he is less shit than Hojlund and arguably 2x the better player aswell as more experienced.

He would be like a Lacazette who was good in Ligue 1 but not good in the PL - but still I'd take a Lacazette over Hojlund right now because one would still score more goals.

 

[dubplate warrior]

Discuss a loan or something with them, he will be okay in maybe another 1-2 years time. In the meantime we need a solid professional striker who gets the job done from minute one, right now.

He's never going to be a top striker, he would have shown far more in his game by now. I'm not sure what people are clinging onto here, but after a couple years, if it isn't working, cut your losses and move him on.

 

[Isotope]

This would confirm that Conte is a closet United fan. He keeps taking in unwanted United players. Although tbf with him, he often makes them work.

 

[Tallis]

I'm not advocating his signing, but this seems contradictory
Also https://www.whoscored.com/players/383855/show/jonathan-david

Healthy helping of penalties in there.

 

[Semper Fudge]

Watched some RvP highlights recently. This is what we should aim for. I have no problem in selling him

Wow, you should be a scout!

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

Cut our losses and if we can get anywhere near £50m for him then we should bite their hand off!

 

[CallyRed]

But he scored in his last game?

 

[Escobar]

Wow, you should be a scout!

I am an amazing FM scout so

 

[Dans]

If he continues to play like he did against Leicester/Soceidad for the rest of the season, then a part of me would want to give him a chance.

With that being said, we should bite the hand off any team offering £50million for him. I wouldn't expect us to get £35million for him at the moment, so that would be an insane deal.

Unfortunately, the quality of opposition is generally not that low.

 

[Cassidy]

Healthy helping of penalties in there.

I guess strikers should not take penalties, the point of whoscored was to show he played most of his games as a central striker, the OP suggested he was not an out and out CF

 

[dubplate warrior]

If he continues to play like he did against Leicester/Soceidad for the rest of the season, then a part of me would want to give him a chance.

With that being said, we should bite the hand off any team offering £50million for him. I wouldn't expect us to get £35million for him at the moment, so that would be an insane deal.

Better to judge players over the course of two seasons and there actually ability in games rather than another purple patch.

 

[Bwuk]

If we got offered 50m we'd be stupid not to take it.

 

[Xeque_279]

David is obviously shit but he is less shit than Hojlund and arguably 2x the better player aswell as more experienced.

He would be like a Lacazette who was good in Ligue 1 but not good in the PL - but still I'd take a Lacazette over Hojlund right now because one would still score more goals.

How can you say that with so much certainty?

 

[Mainoonited]

Ramsus for Osihmen.

Get Jonathan David in as backup striker on a free. Keep Zirkzee for another season. See how we get on.

 

[Xeque_279]

Ramsus for Osihmen.

Get Jonathan David in as backup striker on a free. Keep Zirkzee for another season. See how we get on.

Would rather go with Osimhen/Gyokeres and Rasmus/Zirkzee, with Chido being the 3rd choice.

 

[Scottynaldinho]

Watched some RvP highlights recently. This is what we should aim for. I have no problem in selling him

I do it every month. Every goal that he scored looks better with time.

 

[Tallis]

I guess strikers should not take penalties, the point of whoscored was to show he played most of his games as a central striker, the OP suggested he was not an out and out CF

Understood. I thought you posted the link to support the argument for the goal scoring capabilities of David.

I just think if you remove the penalties and the goals scored in friendlies / internationals etc, then his goal scoring record looks decent but not great.

 

[Crimson King]

I agree, but David would be more sensible than Osimhen and Gykores who would be more expensive and be even less happy to be on the bench.

Perhaps, but I think selling Højlund means you still need David +1 more striker. Now, maybe we do sell and bring in another young project striker do play second fiddle to David. If we think there's better value out there then sure, makes sense. It feels more likely we give Højlund another year.

Got a feeling Chelsea or Arsenal will take a punt on David anyway, unfortunately. I don't think he's top quality, but would be a good addition for where we are right now.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

Sell with a buy-back clause would be the way to go.

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

Better to judge players over the course of two seasons and there actually ability in games rather than another purple patch.

No doubt - but if he plays like he did for the remainder 11-14 games we have left in the season, I think the club will feel they'd give him another crack at it. Just my guess.
With that being said, I will be pleasantly shocked if he does manage that regardless.

 

[Red Star One]

Sell with a buy-back clause would be the way to go.

It doesn't strike me as a kind of business Napoli would do, unless there's plenty of money to be made - so like selling Rasmus for 30-35m with a buy back clause around 70m. Which doesn't sounds like a best piece of business for us

 

[sullydnl]

Unless it's a financial necessity, I don't see much reason for a team that already needs to add a CF to sell one of its existing ones.

Hojlund is still only 22, and in his first season at in the PL his per 90 returns were in line with other B-tier CFs 5-8 years older than him.

PL rates of returns the same or worse than Hojlund's in bold. Also note that most of the better ones are only marginally better. Ages as of the start of this season.

Hojlund (21 years old): 0.17, 0.42.
Watkins (29 years old): 0.48, 0.53, 0.40, 0.30, 0.35
Toney (28 years old): 0.25, 0.43, 0.22
Solanke (27 years old): 0.35, 0.46, 0.19, 0.40
Jesus (27 years old): 0.44, 0.24, 0.44

I don't think it's much of a stretch to think he can develop into a similar B-tier striker given how low the bar is for PL CFs in this current era and how much younger he is than the above players.

If he needs to be sold to bring in a better CF, fine. But otherwise even if you don't rate him much, the upside would seem to be in simply keeping him as the 2nd choice CF we also need to have and hoping he reverts to returning at a similar level to the above. Because it still doesn't seem particularly unlikely he will in the long run.

 

[Dion]

Watched some RvP highlights recently. This is what we should aim for. I have no problem in selling him

RvP had as many 15 goal seasons in his first 6 years at Arsenal as Hojlund did in his first year at United, for what it's worth. At Hojlund's age he had 42 goals in 157 games.

At Hojlund's age Alan Shearer had 43 goals in 158 games at club level. Hojlund has 51 in 169. Gyokeres had 32 in 95 games (almost all of them in the Swedish league). Harry Kane had 21 goals in 91 games. Ollie Watkins had 47 goals in 151 in the lower leagues

I think people, really, really don't understand how hard it is to be a Premier League striker and how late most of them develop. None of that is to say Hojlund is guaranteed to end up being a really good player, but having long stretches without a goal, inconsistent busts of form and being heavily reliant on confidence is exactly what you expect from a striker who has just turned 22. I don't know if selling him is the right choice, it would depend on who was available to replace him, but if the suggestion is to just buy another prospect and see how they do then we'll be stuck in a never ending cycle because we're nowhere near the point where we can write of Hojlund yet.

 

[Cassidy]

RvP had as many 15 goal seasons in his first 6 years at Arsenal as Hojlund did in his first year at United, for what it's worth. At Hojlund's age he had 42 goals in 157 games.

At Hojlund's age Alan Shearer had 43 goals in 158 games at club level. Hojlund has 51 in 169. Gyokeres had 32 in 95 games (almost all of them in the Swedish league). Harry Kane had 21 goals in 91 games. Ollie Watkins had 47 goals in 151 in the lower leagues

I think people, really, really don't understand how hard it is to be a Premier League striker and how late most of them develop. None of that is to say Hojlund is guaranteed to end up being a really good player, but having long stretches without a goal, inconsistent busts of form and being heavily reliant on confidence is exactly what you expect from a striker who has just turned 22. I don't know if selling him is the right choice, it would depend on who was available to replace him, but if the suggestion is to just buy another prospect and see how they do then we'll be stuck in a never ending cycle because we're nowhere near the point where we can write of Hojlund yet.

RvP played as a wide player in the majority of those seasons.

 

[Dion]

RvP played as a wide player in the majority of those seasons.

Yes, because he was nowhere near mature enough to lead the line. He 'played wide' in the same way Rashford does.

You're also over-stating it quite a bit, he played 24 of his 127 games out wide, he played 103 of them centrally.

 

[Plant0x84]

David is obviously shit but he is less shit than Hojlund and arguably 2x the better player aswell as more experienced.

He would be like a Lacazette who was good in Ligue 1 but not good in the PL - but still I'd take a Lacazette over Hojlund right now because one would still score more goals.

‘Less shit than’ isn’t the standard we should aspire to. Rasmus has plenty of potential and is far from the finished product. He’s 4/5 years away from his peak.
He should never have been bought as the main striker for United is all.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

RvP had as many 15 goal seasons in his first 6 years at Arsenal as Hojlund did in his first year at United, for what it's worth. At Hojlund's age he had 42 goals in 157 games.

At Hojlund's age Alan Shearer had 43 goals in 158 games at club level. Hojlund has 51 in 169. Gyokeres had 32 in 95 games (almost all of them in the Swedish league). Harry Kane had 21 goals in 91 games. Ollie Watkins had 47 goals in 151 in the lower leagues

I think people, really, really don't understand how hard it is to be a Premier League striker and how late most of them develop. None of that is to say Hojlund is guaranteed to end up being a really good player, but having long stretches without a goal, inconsistent busts of form and being heavily reliant on confidence is exactly what you expect from a striker who has just turned 22. I don't know if selling him is the right choice, it would depend on who was available to replace him, but if the suggestion is to just buy another prospect and see how they do then we'll be stuck in a never ending cycle because we're nowhere near the point where we can write of Hojlund yet.

It's a really good point and the reason why it's probably a mistake for top teams to sign young strikers (unless they're already top-class like Rooney). It's the one position where I think it makes sense to sign experienced players, most of the time. Maybe goalkeepers should be older too.

 

[Redstain]

If we got offered 50m we'd be stupid not to take it.

Respectfully the posts suggesting otherwise are ridiculous.

If a team offers anything north of 45m for PSR United will sell him. Hojlund is not good enough and has never showed considerable promise to bank on his ability. United have had far more talented strikers not make it at this club.

He's one of the worst strikers I have witnessed in the league.

 

[Scandi Red]

I've been critical of Højlund, but selling him is ill-advised for several reasons:

1. He's practically our only center forward (Zirkzee is evidently more of a no.10)
2. With the likes of Rashford, Antony and Sancho getting exiled we are also running out of attackers in general.
3. He just turned 22. That is a nothing age. Especially for a center forward.
4. For all the valid criticism, you can't fault his workrate and mentality. We need more of that in the club.
5. Excluding youth team graduates, Højlund is one of our lowest paid players (19 players earn more than him). And his contract doesn't expire until 2028.

Regardless of whether or not he stays, our first priority this summer should be to sign a top class CF. But if Højlund leaves then we must also sign a backup striker.

 

[bond19821982]

He is only 22. Strikers doesn't peak until 26. How many 22 year old strikers are starting currently in PL ?

I dont get it. we buy young players for huge money but if we aren't patient enough whats the point? its not his problem that we don't have a starting striker. He should be coming in as a sub.

 

[Redstain]

He's never going to be a top striker, he would have shown far more in his game by now. I'm not sure what people are clinging onto here, but after a couple years, if it isn't working, cut your losses and move him on.

This is my issue he came here off 9 goals domestically in Italy scored 10 in the league. The premise of him being a top striker is absolutely nonchalant, he doesn't have any elite qualities in his game to bank his development on. People can talk about Rooney, RVP at similar ages but they were on a different stratosphere to Hojlund technically it's something you refine over time it doesn't come out of thin air.

When I watched Haaland it was immediately discernable that he's going to be a top striker, I could determine this from one game Norway vs Honduras U21's and he scored 9 goals. It wasn't the amount of goals that he scored to determine his talent but the way he took the finishes, his striking of the ball alone was enough of an attribute where you could see he had a unique quality. He offered far more threat because of his physicality and this is something Rasmus will never offer.

The data also suggests that Hojlund is better in Europe which subsequently suggests a move abroad is better. He played well against Soceidad because he could actually fend off his defender, he has no capability to do so in the league and size doesn't equate strength there are other factors like balance and center of gravity. He like Lindleof are light weights and putting on muscle mass won't turn him into Lukaku.

Sell him to Italy and get a competent striker with the money. It's a no brainer.

 

[dubplate warrior]

He is only 22. Strikers doesn't peak until 26. How many 22 year old strikers are starting currently in PL ?

I dont get it. we buy young players for huge money but if we aren't patient enough whats the point? its not his problem that we don't have a starting striker. He should be coming in as a sub.

At 22 he really should have shown a lot more by now. I don't get this logic, he's obviously not good enough.

 

[AaronRedDevil]

At 22 he really should have shown a lot more by now. I don't get this logic, he's obviously not good enough.

Hard to be good enough when no one lasses to you when your miles open. You could make a video compilation of the amount of times he's been ignored. Basically last season he scored all those goals by himself.

 

[Dion]

At 22 he really should have shown a lot more by now. I don't get this logic, he's obviously not good enough.

Lots and lots of very good Premier League strikers haven't, including arguably the best center forward in the history of the league.

 

[Redstain]

It's a really good point and the reason why it's probably a mistake for top teams to sign young strikers (unless they're already top-class like Rooney). It's the one position where I think it makes sense to sign experienced players, most of the time. Maybe goalkeepers should be older too.

I don't think this to be the case, I think it's an example of signing a player who doesn't have outstanding talent and using time as a factor to force his development. It's based on the sentiment of hope as opposed to realistically evaluating the said players influence.

Julian Alvarez was a good young striker for City they took a risk signing him from River Plate. Isak scored 20 goals in the league second season as a young striker Newcastle took a risk on with Sociedad. If Greenwood had a much better sense of morality he would likely have been leading the line. None of these players were world class but they were talented. The fact there's only three examples is demonstrable of how limited the amount of talent there is for strikers in the market of which Rasmus is included.

 

[Redstain]

Hard to be good enough when no one lasses to you when your miles open. You could make a video compilation of the amount of times he's been ignored. Basically last season he scored all those goals by himself.

But this season he's had chances put on a plate for him and still missed. He's had open goal attempts go wide or hit the post.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

£50m for Hojlund. No club is stupid enough to pay that.

 

[Floyd]

Not good enough now and most likely will never be. He's just so cumbersome in his movement when trying (failing) to control the ball. Running in a straight line he's fast, but not lightning. And he's terrible in sniffing out chances, his movement in the box is very poor. No tap-ins in sight.

If we can sell him without a negative PSR result, it's a no brainer.

 

[Bole Top]

£50m for Hojlund. No club is stupid enough to pay that.

second time, at least.