They're a special bunch over there, aren't they? Some absolute poetry is written there.
RAWK Goes Into Meltdown 20-18/19 Edition
- Thread starter Pexbo
- Start date
Last cup they won was the League Cup in 2011-12 and their trophy cabinet is still empty under Klopp.
Klopp has been there for three years and hasn't won one single trophy.
Klopp has been there for three years and hasn't won one single trophy.
It's got nothing to do with entitlement. I don't want to not win the FA Cup or anything, it'd be great to win it no doubt. However that's not what's keeping me up at night -figuratively speaking of course- but it's that fecking league I want to see us win. If it means sacrificing the FA Cup or even the CL just to give us a great shot at that, so be it. At all costs and by all means as far as I'm concerned. An FA Cup would make me happy for that particular Sunday and maybe the next few days. The league would make my entire year and then some.
And besides that I'm just not the kind of fan that compares our trophy count to other teams like some on here do. I'd rather we were on 0 CL's and won 3 in my lifetime than we were on 15 and won 0 that I've witnessed.
Why not try win both though? United and Chelsea have done doubles before.
Both would be great, obviously, but winning either one of them has been more than a decade ago. I'm sorry but I don't believe in that kind of fairytales. Most of our players are not used to the stress of a title race either. I'd say let them focus on the league this season and keep that double in the back of our mind should we win the league this season.
The United and Chelsea sides you refer to were full of seasoned players and serial winners who where used to repeatedly compete on multiple fronts, unlike our team right now.
Your players aren't used to winning anything because you never win anything. You've fecked off the League Cup and FA Cup, the two most immediately winnable competitions, every season pretty much since Klopp arrived, so it's no wonder you've had trouble getting over the line when it matters. Long may it continue.
tldr: We're a bunch of bottling losers
A league title race is nothing compared to a cup competition. Unless you think Real won last year's final because they had experience winning things, it matters very little.
How would you know?
Because we've been in two(!) in the past decadeHow would you know?
Did the Real Madrid side that, in the five seasons prior to the 2018 Champions League final, had won three Champions Leagues, a La Liga title, and a Copa del Rey, have more experience in winning things than a Liverpool side that, in the five seasons prior to the 2018 Champions League final had lost two cup finals and bottled a title race, have an edge when it came to experience of winning things?
Undoubtedly yes.
Was that the only difference between the teams? No.
Was it still an important difference? Again, undoubtedly yes.
There's a huge correlation between teams enjoying even minor cup success before cementing a league title. There's a mental edge to knowing you've got over the line before, regardless of the competition's format.
Aye, and just like the cup finals you've been in, have a tendency to come up short.Because we've been in two(!) in the past decade
Not RAWK, but a comment after a David Squires cartoon:
Apart from the Sevilla one, it was against superior opponents, no shame in admitting that. I also disagree about the mental edge but I think we’ve already been down that road.
I definitely do think that. There’s a reason United and Chelsea continued to win things even when we weren’t competing in the League. The clubs and many of the players at them got used to winning things and weren’t intimidated by it. Success breeds success. It becomes habitual and confidence building. There’s a whole bit in Fergie’s book about how he saw winning the league cup as often a really good basis for mounting a League challenge. And if you look back at all his great teams, they almost all won a cup before their first big league win. As did Chelsea, and City.
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Of course you disagree with it, because it means you have to acknowledge that your club has stupidly binned off winnable competitions through a sense of entitlement of wanting bigger, less obtainable prizes.
So how does it work with other sports where there’s only one trophy? Super Bowl must be the Pats’ this year given only they have past experience of winning it? Why is repeating so damn hard if you’re already used to winning?
If you’re good enough, you’re good enough. And if you’re better than your opponent, you will win. Simple as.
What a weird argument.
I literally said in one of my responses to you that it's not the only factor, but it's certainly one that can give you an edge.
Of course teams without experience of winning, occasionally win things, but it's not a wild claim to say that experience of winning can help you win things.
Maybe it can, but an FA Cup in the previous years wouldn’t have won us the CL last season. And it wouldn’t make a damn difference this season in a league race with City. Agree to disagree.
But it might have. The fact that one of the big difference makers was your goalkeeper making incredibly nervy errors should surely demonstrate the importance of experience? If he'd already played and won in cup finals, he'd have coped much better with the pressure of playing in that cup final.
It demonstrated that we needed another goalkeeper if anything
“You’ll win nothing with kids”
Remember that from Alan Hansen?
Won the double that year
Not really since I was 2 years old back then but yeah it rings a bell
Ha sorry didn’t realize you’re a young unNot really since I was 2 years old back then but yeah it rings a bell
Just some notes for you:
Chelsea 2014/15
Chelsea won the Premier League in 2014/15, their first title in five seasons, having last won it in 2009/10. The team that won the 2014/15 title was obviously quite a bit different to the one that won it in 2009/10, but the transitional sides picked up a Champions League and an FA Cup in 2011/12, the Europa League in 2012/13, and the League Cup en route to the title in 2014/15.
Manchester City 2011/12
Manchester City win their first Premier League title in 2011/12, their first league title since 1967/68. The season before, in 2010/11, they won the FA Cup.
Manchester United 2006/07
Manchester United went three seasons without a league title before winning the Premier League in 2006/07, which at the time was unheard of in the Premier League era. Between winning the title in 2002/03, and winning the title in 2006/07, the team was in transition, but still managed to pick up an FA Cup in 2003/04, and a League Cup in 2005/06.
Manchester United 1992/93
Manchester United won their first league title since 1966/67 in the inaugural Premier League season, 1992/93. In the seasons building up to 1992/93, they'd won the League Cup in 1991/92, the Cup Winners Cup in 1991/92, and the FA Cup in 1989/90.
Real Madrid 2016/17
Real Madrid won their first league title in five seasons in 2016/17, having last won the title in 2011/12. However, they won two Champions Leagues (2013/14 and 2015/16) and a Copa del Rey (2013/14) in between those two title wins (adding another Champions League in 2016/17).
Atletico Madrid 2013/14
When Atletico Madrid won La Liga in 2013/14, it was their first league title since 1995/96. In 2012/13 they won Copa del Rey, and in 2011/12 they won the Europa League.
Real Madrid 2011/12
Another title 'drought' for Real Madrid came to an end in 2011/12, as they won their first title in four seasons, their first since 2007/08. In 2010/11 they won Copa del Rey.
Real Madrid 2000/01
Once again, back in Madrid, and once again, four seasons between titles. Real Madrid won the Champions League in 1999/00.
Yeah, proper teams win both. Arsenal as well
Umm, this is the RAWK thread
Since when were Chelsea a proper team?
Great teams win other things than their domestic league, shocker.
Arsenal won 3 out of 4 FA Cups if I'm not mistaken and they haven't even gotten close to the title during that span. For every example you can provide I could probably give you 5 cases in which they weren't correlated.
It might play a role but it's nowhere near as big as you like to make it out. If you're good enough, you're good enough and I stand by that.
Colin is right, this is not the correct thread for this discussion so probably best to leave it here.
It's not a hard and fast rule, which you well know, so stop pretending like that's what I'm saying. It's literally common sense.
I think the point you were trying to make from the beginning is that we fail to win things because we prioritize the bigger trophies instead of focusing on the smaller domestic cups to build some experience and confidence. And that is simply not true in my opinion.
When they won the double in 09/10
Plastic clubs can't be proper clubs.
You're going for the league this season, and you've binned off both domestic cups in the earliest rounds. You went for the CL last season, binned off both domestic cups in either the first or second round you played in, and almost bottled top 4. Went for the league in 2013/14, out of the FA Cup in the fifth round, and League Cup in the third. 2008/09 you went for the league, and were out of both domestic cups in their respective fourth rounds. Even in 2005 when you won the CL, you ended up fifth in the league, and out of the FA Cup at the first hurdle.
It's not just a hunch, it's demonstrably true that you've a history of prioritising either the League or CL at the expense of the domestic cups, which would be fine if you actually won any of them in between.
The league is a long slog and City are more than capable of going on a long winning run. Its not over yet.
Of course it's not over, far from. I still have them down as favourites.
I've just seen this.
Isn't this completely at odds with your stance that the FA Cup actually doesn't matter if not winning it, maybe, gives you a better chance at winning the league, which you still might not do?
You're more concerned with what they win in your lifetime (which is more than fair enough), when, from another comment you've posted, I can see that you've seen your team win two FA Cups, four League Cups, a UEFA Cup, and a Champions League, but at best a single FA Cup and single League Cup since you turned 13?
Surely if your desire is to see your team win things, rather than talk about what they've won, you'd actually want them, you know, to win things?
You know we are going to be much harder for Liverpool and City to beat when they visit OT. We will have a say in this.
Okay, so I can't explain why I desperately want them to win the league but can't be arsed that much about an FA Cup. There you have it.
Notice that I referred to the league and the CL as well and didn't even think of mentioning the FA Cup or League Cup. They're secondary trophies, I don't live in England, I don't care that much for them. If that makes me entitled in your opinion, so be it.