Real Time With Bill Maher

[fishfingers15]

She's most certainly not. Comparing her to Choudary who is in prison and whose group is linked to ISIS style rhetoric is well off the mark and in the U.S.'s case, actually lets actual hate groups off the hook.

Chaudhary started off as the 'alternate view' that the media so now enjoy so as to present a balanced coverage. Even Muslims all over Britain warned the legitimization of his views. If you think Ann Coulter just says things to make money, that's the very definition of Chaudhary. He said all things to make him relevant. You somehow think it's ok for a blonde white woman to say things to make money, but if it's a bloke like Chaudhary, then he is a terrorist. Chaudhary's arrest came after almost three years of media airtime when he wasn't linked with terrorists but just trying to stay 'relevant'.

I have no idea how many violent incidents Ann Coulter triggered by spewing her bullshit, but you can't sit in your high chair and say 'none'.

 

[Raoul]

Chaudhary started off as the 'alternate view' that the media so now enjoy so as to present a balanced coverage. Even Muslims all over Britain warned the legitimization of his views. If you think Ann Coulter just says things to make money, that's the very definition of Chaudhary. He said all things to make him relevant. You somehow think it's ok for a blonde white woman to say things to make money, but if it's a bloke like Chaudhary, then he is a terrorist. Chaudhary's arrest came after almost three years of media airtime when he wasn't linked with terrorists but just trying to stay 'relevant'.

I have no idea how many violent incidents Ann Coulter triggered by spewing her bullshit, but you can't sit in your high chair and say 'none'.

Chaudhary and Coulter are a million miles apart and your attempt to conflate them tells me you know little about Coulter.

And again, I'm still waiting for your "measurable effect".

 

[Raoul]

I dont think it should depend on who is using it it should depend on how its used if thats how he wants to play it. Also black people can be fecking racist aswel , and also using that word . So who uses it means feck all as racism isnt something that has to do with the color of ones skin. It has to do with the mindset of the person. I think its safe to say Bill was probaly one of the least racist persons that was at that table. He had to appologise to keep his show but i know deep down he doesnt think he should have to appologise. The irony is that he has had to swallow his pride and bow down to the power of PC

It also has much to do with the mindset of groups of people and which groups control the power structure of society and the historical context thereof. Given American history, it's obviously not going to fly if white guys use it in jest.

 

[afrocentricity]

@ChaddyP you realise black people are not some homogeneous block right? There are black people that don't like the term full stop, and there are those that don't like 'others' to use it but don't mind their friends using it, and then there are those that don't care either way. All 3 types are usually distinctly different personalities, some with different upbringing, some with different life experiences.

If you can't realise that then who are you to tell them how they should all react to the use of the word?

 

[afrocentricity]

Chaudhary and Coulter are a million miles apart and your attempt to conflate them tells me you know little about Coulter.

And again, I'm still waiting for your "measurable effect".

I was the one that said measurable effect (not the poster you quoted). I also said omit the word 'measurable' if it bothers you. I don't know why you are still claiming that it has no effect. If you seriously think that I despair.

 

[fishfingers15]

Chaudhary and Coulter are a million miles apart and your attempt to conflate them tells me you know little about Coulter.

And again, I'm still waiting for your "measurable effect".

As far as I know, you didn't ask me 'any measurable effect', so I'm not sure what you want from me.

I'm not saying Anjem Chaudhary and Ann Coulter are the same. It took more than three years of primetime coverage of Chaudhary before the government realized how much harm he has been doing. While he was out there radicalizing young people and impressionable minds, media went about giving him a platform and he was happy to provide soundbites to make him relevant. Your argument seems to be Ann Coulter is just a political hack trying to be relevant and this is why she's appearing in daily shows. I'm going out on a limb and suggesting here that hate filled diatribes being given a platform like TV has an effect on people.

I don't know how much damage Ann Coulter has caused with her books, but I can be sure that it is not zero. Can you say for sure that her views had no effect whatsoever? If you do say that, then it's probably not a good idea to tell others how little they know about anything.

 

[Raoul]

I was the one that said measurable effect (not the poster you quoted). I also said omit the word if it bothers you. I don't know why you are still claiming that it has no effect. If you seriously think that I despair.

I just don't see what Coulter has done to verify what you claim. I'm a pretty open minded person and am truly interested.

 

[Raoul]

As far as I know, you didn't ask me 'any measurable effect', so I'm not sure what you want from me.

I'm not saying Anjem Chaudhary and Ann Coulter are the same. It took more than three years of primetime coverage of Chaudhary before the government realized how much harm he has been doing. While he was out there radicalizing young people and impressionable minds, media went about giving him a platform and he was happy to provide soundbites to make him relevant. Your argument seems to be Ann Coulter is just a political hack trying to be relevant and this is why she's appearing in daily shows. I'm going out on a limb and suggesting here that hate filled diatribes being given a platform like TV has an effect on people.

I don't know how much damage Ann Coulter has caused with her books, but I can be sure that it is not zero. Can you say for sure that her views had no effect whatsoever? If you do say that, then it's probably not a good idea to tell others how little they know about anything.

Coulter's books are no different than a slew of other similar books written by Conservatives for conservatives. Its standard nationalist drivel that is not uncommon among Republican writers.

 

[ChaddyP]

@ChaddyP you realise black people are not some homogeneous block right? There are black people that don't like the term full stop, and there are those that don't like 'others' to use it but don't mind their friends using it, and then there are those that don't care either way. All 3 types are usually distinctly different personalities, some with different upbringing, some with different life experiences.

If you can't realise that then who are you to tell them how they should all react to the use of the word?

Im quite aware that there are different folks that see the word differently. I dissagree with why Icecube and that particular set of people think that they have some right over a word and are able to use it but others shouldnt. I have a right to disagree with that. Who am i to tell another person they cant use a word in the same context as someone else because of the skin color. Why can a Black man grown up in a white household in lets say North Dakota say the word but a white man that grew up in for arguments sake compton with predominantly black people and grew up in that culture not say it. The reason that is given is in my opinion silly. Either no one says it as its deemed offensive or anyone can say it in a non offensive way. And I disagree that all 3 different types have different upbringings and life experiences. And for your information i am quite aware that black people arent some homogeneous block. No race is. I would never think that as i know first hand

 

[ChaddyP]

It also has much to do with the mindset of groups of people and which groups control the power structure of society and the historical context thereof. Given American history, it's obviously not going to fly if white guys use it in jest.

my thing is if you dont think the word should Fly with a white guy, dont make it fly with anyone. The reason that is given "its our word" honestly is nonsense. And in itself racist by definition.

 

[afrocentricity]

I just don't see what Coulter has done to verify what you claim. I'm a pretty open minded person and am truly interested.

Coulter's books are no different than a slew of other similar books written by Conservatives for conservatives. Its standard nationalist drivel that is not uncommon among Republican writers.

As you mentioned she is in TV and she has books, she has a million followers on Twitter. She has an audience. Are you telling me that you think what she says has no effect on anybody?

 

[afrocentricity]

Excuse my French @ChaddyP but you are taking out of your fcuking arse....

 

[Raoul]

As you mentioned she is in TV and she has books, she has a million followers on Twitter. She has an audience. Are you telling me that you think what she says has no effect on anybody?

So do loads of other people. She has every right to express her views and frankly I think its dangerous to attempt to muzzle views we disagree with. Let them have their say and let the market place of ideas sort out whether they are accepted.

 

[afrocentricity]

So do loads of other people. She has every right to express her views and frankly I think its dangerous to attempt to muzzle views we disagree with. Let them have their say and let the market place of ideas sort out whether they are accepted.

I get where you're coming from, but you just aren't taking into account how easily people are led in this day and age. Why did you ban that white nationalist? Why don't we get more of them in here and give them a platform? No chance of it turning a misguided individual who maybe had no real interaction with minorities into someone who hates them off the fact that such and such has demonized them.

Or... How about we dont and just er on the side of caution, I'm sure they have many other avenues to spread their shite. If it's my choice I'd rather not be a part of it.... I'd rather not watch or listen to it. I'd rather not expose other people to it either unless it's something they are actively looking for.

 

[Raoul]

I get where you're coming from, but you just aren't taking into account how easily people are led in this day and age. Why did you ban that white nationalist? Why don't we get more of them in here and give them a platform? No chance of it turning a misguided individual who maybe had no real interaction with minorities into someone who hates them off the fact that such and such has demonized them. How about we dont and just er on the side of caution, I'm she they have many other avenues to spread their shite. If it's my choice I'd rather not be a part of it.... I'd rather not watch or listen to it. I'd rather not expose other people to it either unless it's something they are actively looking for.

We had a guy (Irwin?) in a thread a few months back. He wasn't banned, but rather he was shouted down and didn't bother to continue posting.

But again, Coulter isn't a white nationalist. She's a standard conservative who uses her own annoying polemics to promote herself and her books.

In her case, she is being intimidated by left wing activists who don't want her on campus, while at the same time left wing commentators aren't restricted in any way. That sort of discrimination needs to be stopped. Either Universities welcome the civil exchange of different ideas from all sides or they dont.

 

[ChaddyP]

Excuse my French @ChaddyP but you are taking out of your fcuking arse....

Well ok...

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

We had a guy (Irwin?) in a thread a few months back. He wasn't banned, but rather he was shouted down and didn't bother to continue posting.

But again, Coulter isn't a white nationalist. She's a standard conservative who uses her own annoying polemics to promote herself and her books.

In her case, she is being intimidated by left wing activists who don't want her on campus, while at the same time left wing commentators aren't restricted in any way. That sort of discrimination needs to be stopped. Either Universities welcome the civil exchange of different ideas from all sides or they dont.

Yeah sure, Christian colleges and right wing communities in general are such bastion of free speech and open discussion.

 

[afrocentricity]

We had a guy (Irwin?) in a thread a few months back. He wasn't banned, but rather he was shouted down and didn't bother to continue posting.

But again, Coulter isn't a white nationalist. She's a standard conservative who uses her own annoying polemics to promote herself and her books.

In her case, she is being intimidated by left wing activists who don't want her on campus, while at the same time left wing commentators aren't restricted in any way. That sort of discrimination needs to be stopped. Either Universities welcome the civil exchange of different ideas from all sides or they dont.

Figured he got banned, he didn't get shouted down he got questioned. Is that really what you call shouted down because on a scale of hostility the responses were 3/10 at worst.

Where do you draw the line then Raoul? Or do you draw a line?

 

[Raoul]

Yeah sure, Christian colleges and right wing communities in general are such bastion of free speech and open discussion.

We're talking about mainstream Universities, not one off religious schools.

 

[Raoul]

Figured he got banned, he didn't get shouted down he got questioned. Is that really what you call shouted down because on a scale of hostility the responses were 3/10 at worst.

Where do you draw the line then Raoul? Or do you draw a line?

Probably at actual hate speech rather than unfunny polemicists. For example, unlike CNN (see below), I wouldn't promote Richard Spencer since he's a fringe figure looking to gain mainstream acceptance for his cause. Richard is fairly articulate as white nationalists go (or alt-right as he calls himself), but networks have to limit the amount of exposure they give him just because he dresses well and has a cogent set of talking points.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

We're talking about mainstream Universities, not one off religious schools.

They all purported to have the same purpose, to educate. Just because Berkeley has excellent academic reputation doesnt mean its students has any less right to protest against ideas their deem harmful than the hillbillies in Jesus Love Us college from Alabama or wherever. Places like Liberty University for example are prosperous, well funded, propped up by major conservative figures by appearances. You can hardly call that out of the mainstream. By that logic if you are not of the Ivy League you arent mainstream.

 

[afrocentricity]

Probably at actual hate speech rather than unfunny polemicists. For example, unlike CNN (see below), I wouldn't promote Richard Spencer since he's a fringe figure looking to gain mainstream acceptance for his cause. Richard is fairly articulate as white nationalists go (or alt-right as he calls himself), but networks have to limit the amount of exposure they give him just because he dresses well and has a cogent set of talking points.

Fair enough, so we are on the same page in general but you think that people like Coulter and Trump are harmless. I don't watch them as much as you but I'd argue that as harmless as you think they may be they help to legitimise people like Spencer due to agreeing with or repeating some of the same talking points.

 

[Raoul]

They all purported to have the same purpose, to educate. Just because Berkeley has excellent academic reputation doesnt mean its students has any less right to protest against ideas their deem harmful than the hillbillies in Jesus Love Us college from Alabama or wherever. Places like Liberty University for example are prosperous, well funded, propped up by major conservative figures by appearances. You can hardly call that out of the mainstream. By that logic if you are not of the Ivy League you arent mainstream.

Liberty, Regents, and Oral Roberts are all out of the mainstream. Normal people don't go there.

Berkley is publicly funded and has a responsibility to allow views from across the spectrum, not just ones you or I want to promote.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Liberty, Regents, and Oral Roberts are all out of the mainstream. Normal people don't go there.

Berkley is publicly funded and has a responsibility to allow views from across the spectrum, not just ones you or I want to promote.

It has a duty to its students to listen to their concerns and decide whether those concerns are justified.

Again, you don't get to decide what mainstream is when you have a government ran by people educated (if at all) from those places.

 

[Raoul]

It has a duty to its students to listen to their concerns and decide whether those concerns are justified.

Again, you don't get to decide what mainstream is when you have a government ran by people educated (if at all) from those places.

They can listen to concerns and allow students who disagree with speakers to not participate or even demonstrate. They can't however allow violence and general anarchist behavior because Milo is speaking to a small group of Conservative students. That's completely totalitarian and should be called out and stopped, especially at schools who get public funding.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

They can listen to concerns and allow students who disagree with speakers to no participate or even demonstrate. They can't however allow violence and general anarchist behavior because Milo is speaking to a small group of Conservative students. That's completely totalitarian and should be called out and stopped, especially at schools who get public funding.

Those who commit violence and behaviours outside of the law will be dealt with by the authority. It's not as if the school and its staff are patting them on the back and say 'go to town, mate'.

I'm against persecution in the court of public opinion, especially by mediums like social media, but the whole thing with Milo was blown out of proportion. Everyday in the US speakers of different ideology than the majority of a given campus are protested against, often times the students involved ostracized and harrassed by their peers and no one seems to give a shit, until suddenly students in Berkeley do it, then CNN panels start wringing their hands and say we cant be having that. It works both way.

 

[Raoul]

Those who commit violence and behaviours outside of the law will be dealt with by the authority. It's not as if the school and its staff are patting them on the back and say 'go to town, mate'.

I'm against persecution in the court of public opinion, especially by mediums like social media, but the whole thing with Milo was blown out of proportion. Everyday in the US speakers of different ideology than the majority of a given campus are protested against, often times the students involved ostracized and harrassed by their peers and no one seems to give a shit, until suddenly students in Berkeley do it, then CNN panels start wringing their hands and say we cant be having that. It works both way.

That's precisely what we're dealing with at places like Berkeley and on the east coast. There's nothing wrong with demonstrating, but these anti-Milo anti-alt right type protesters are breaking the law by damaging property, breaking windows, attacking people etc. If these were peaceful protests you can bet it wouldn't make the news and you would never hear about it.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

That's precisely what we're dealing with at places like Berkeley and on the east coast. There's nothing wrong with demonstrating, but these anti-Milo anti-alt right type protesters are breaking the law by damaging property, breaking windows, attacking people etc. If these were peaceful protests you can bet it wouldn't make the news and you would never hear about it.

What do you imagine will happen when a bunch of excitable youths congregate together, emboldened by numerical advantage? Thats why if there are those who transgressed, the authority will deal with them.

Fact remains that rightwingers are the bigger, louder and more precious snowflakes, and the idea you propagated in the original post I responded to that 'left wingers are left alone' is demonstrable bollocks. They are sure as hell dont get left alone when they venture out of their own turf.

The US has a checkered history at best when it comes to free speech. Your government were snowflakey enough to throw the First Amendment down the dump to ban Communist followers from public speaking all the way back in WW1 and hunting them for years after. Now, if you apply the idea then that harmful ideas/hate speech that endanger the system shouldnt be allowed, Coulter and her bunch shouldnt get a free pass.

 

[afrocentricity]

That's precisely what we're dealing with at places like Berkeley and on the east coast. There's nothing wrong with demonstrating, but these anti-Milo anti-alt right type protesters are breaking the law by damaging property, breaking windows, attacking people etc. If these were peaceful protests you can bet it wouldn't make the news and you would never hear about it.

How many times has this happened?

 

[Raoul]

How many times has this happened?

Happened as recently as March during the Milo debacle. It will keep happening until Universities grow some balls and protect both sides.

 

[Raoul]

What do you imagine will happen when a bunch of excitable youths congregate together, emboldened by numerical advantage? Thats why if there are those who transgressed, the authority will deal with them.

Fact remains that rightwingers are the bigger, louder and more precious snowflakes, and the idea you propagated in the original post I responded to that 'left wingers are left alone' is demonstrable bollocks. They are sure as hell dont get left alone when they venture out of their own turf.

The US has a checkered history at best when it comes to free speech. Your government were snowflakey enough to throw the First Amendment down the dump to ban Communist followers from public speaking all the way back in WW1 and hunting them for years after. Now, if you apply the idea then that harmful ideas/hate speech that endanger the system shouldnt be allowed, Coulter and her bunch shouldnt get a free pass.

What on earth does this have to do with what we're discussing.

 

[afrocentricity]

Happened as recently as March during the Milo debacle. It will keep happening until Universities grow some balls and protect both sides.

I asked how many times...

 

[Raoul]

I asked how many times...

Its been happening regularly for years. Not the explosive scenes as in the first video but a general attempt to squash free speech which has progressively led to situations like the one above.

 

[afrocentricity]

Its been happening regularly for years. Not the explosive scenes as in the first video but a general attempt to squash free speech which has progressively led to situations like the one above.

So if not as explosive then what are we talking? Just trying to get a picture here...

To be fair I'm not even sure of the points you are making here. Are these people rioting a violent subset of the protesters? Is this the first time it's boiled over? Is it a major problem or something being blown out of proportion? It's all a bit vague...

 

[Raoul]

So if not as explosive then what are we talking? Just trying to get a picture here...

To be fair I'm not even sure of the points you are making here. Are these people rioting a violent subset of the protesters? Is this the first time it's boiled over? Is it a major problem or something being blown out of proportion? It's all a bit vague...

Restriction on free speech, intimidation of guests, and actual violence and criminal behavior. This sort of thing is well documented in the US and there's a fairly publicized debate going on about it.

 

[afrocentricity]

Restriction on free speech, intimidation of guests, and actual violence and criminal behavior. This sort of thing is well documented in the US and there's a fairly publicized debate going on about it.

Still a very vague answer so I'll leave it at that and look it up myself when I get a chance...

 

[Mrs Smoker]

Thanks for posting, @Raoul. Agree with pretty much everything.

 

[saivet]

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[VorZakone]

So... I might be completely oblivious to black people's history in the US here but was that really such an offensive joke? I watched the vid where he says the N-word.

 

[pierrethesnack]

The thing about hate speech is that in the internet age, people interested by that sort of thing are going to find it regardless.

Yeah, this. You can't prevent people from finding it unless you do complete internet censorship. Better to have them make fools out of themselves on mainstream shows.