Redcafe Snooker

[Bertie Wooster]

Great victory for Judd.

Never reached his best form all tournament, but showed great desire and determination - mixed with occasional moments of genius - to win his second Masters.

As he said in his interview, it was a very Mark Selby type of effort all week.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

World Grand Prix starts tomorrow.

Another opportunity to cheer on Jack Lisowski and try to fool myself into thinking that perhaps this time will be the one - while knowing all along that it's just not going to happen.

 

[ChrisNelson]

I love it when there's back to back tournaments, although I don't think the players do!

The Grand Prix is a good event because you're generally getting players who have had a good season, it being the top 32 on the one-year list.

Some of the top players have really tough draws though - Mark Allen faces Dave Gilbert, which isn't as tough as facing say 2019 Dave Gilbert but he's still a battler.

Jack Lisowski could have had an easier draw - Rob Milkins has been around the block a few times including beating Neil Robertson at the Crucible a few years ago when I was there, even though Robertson hit the tournament high break of 143.

Hawkins v O'Sullivan potentially the standout tie of round one, although others look good including Ding v Bingham and Murphy v Carter.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

Phew! Great comeback by Jack.

Completely threw away the first and fourth frames with such careless misses when the balls were there to be cleared - which Milkins duly did. Should have been 3-1 up, found himself 3-1 down. But great effort after that to complete an impressive comeback.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

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[Bertie Wooster]

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As was predictable, the 'older' players - Wenbo, Li Hang, Lu Ning - are facing the stronger charges and will probably get a strong punishment, if found guilty.

As expected, the younger players seem to be facing lesser charges and, if found guilty, I imagine most will probably get quite light punishments, with some of it suspended - a comparative slap on the wrist, in order to get the young Chinese stars back on the tour as quickly as possible rather than risk losing that market and its money.

 

[ChrisNelson]

Wenbo is definitely done with as far as professional snooker is concerned.

The others face very long roads back and it will be a struggle. As much as anything else they'll also be pariahs if found guilty of even the smallest offence.

Chinese snooker has probably been set back many years by this whole thing.

But it's not the fault of snooker itself, lots of sports have had fixing scandals - it's important the crowds still flock to the big events, even if they'll mainly be watching European players for the foreseeable future.

It's also important to remember that Ding is still their most famous and popular player, and he's untouched along with Zhou Yuelong and Xiao Guodong.

 

[predator]

Wenbo is definitely done with as far as professional snooker is concerned.

The others face very long roads back and it will be a struggle. As much as anything else they'll also be pariahs if found guilty of even the smallest offence.

Chinese snooker has probably been set back many years by this whole thing.

But it's not the fault of snooker itself, lots of sports have had fixing scandals - it's important the crowds still flock to the big events, even if they'll mainly be watching European players for the foreseeable future.

It's also important to remember that Ding is still their most famous and popular player, and he's untouched along with Zhou Yuelong and Xiao Guodong.

I had no idea Xintong was involved in this scandal. Such a shame as I really think he could've gone on to become a great in the sport.

 

[Pexbo]

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Disappointed to see Bingtao in there I had high hopes for him.

Is betting a big issue in Chinese culture? When I was travelling in Sydney I started playing in a couple of pool halls between my split shifts at work and it was very popular with Chinese nationals and the money that changed hands was eye watering.

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

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Dark day for snooker. Really disappointed to see Yan and Zhao Xintong (both major winners)

 

[Bertie Wooster]

I didn't get to see Jack Lisowski's game tonight - only on Table 2, and clashed with the United game. But I followed it and 4 breaks of 50+ in the frames he won suggests it was a decent performance when he got amongst the balls.

A tough QF ahead though, after Mark Allen edged what looks a close game v Joe O'Connor, 4-3. He didn't impress in the first round, and was hammered in his match in The Masters, but I'm expecting him to raise his game now he's at the later stages of the tournament so Jack will have to play very well to beat him.

And really looking forward to Luca v Judd tomorrow afternoon.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

Another bloody heartbreaking loss for Jack (and his fans).

Allen didn't even play well. He was really struggling, but just had enough experience - and patience - to make every frame a lengthy grind so it was played on his terms. That lengthy incident in the 4th frame really changed the whole tempo and balance of the match and Jack could never wrestle it back.

Credit to him for hanging in there more than the old days - and for that amazing clearance in the 8th frame! But that game, and the Williams SF in The Masters, highlight the matchplay and experience advantage those elite level players still have over him. He's slowly closing the gap, but it's still very much there.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

Insane run by Saengkham this week beating Selby,Ronnie and Mark Williams in the last 3 days. This coming in what is a horrible week for Asian snooker is so nice

 

[ChrisNelson]

Another bloody heartbreaking loss for Jack (and his fans).

Allen didn't even play well. He was really struggling, but just had enough experience - and patience - to make every frame a lengthy grind so it was played on his terms. That lengthy incident in the 4th frame really changed the whole tempo and balance of the match and Jack could never wrestle it back.

Credit to him for hanging in there more than the old days - and for that amazing clearance in the 8th frame! But that game, and the Williams SF in The Masters, highlight the matchplay and experience advantage those elite level players still have over him. He's slowly closing the gap, but it's still very much there.

Jack is turning in to the new age Jimmy White - only with Jack he can't get over the line in any ranking event, not just the Worlds like Jimmy!

I agree that the free ball incident changed a lot and to be honest was a joke.

The referee is called that for a reason, you can politely question them, shake your head in frustration or whatever - but their decision stands. It creates a dangerous precedent when players are doing what Allen did.

It's not even like we can say he wouldn't have tried it with big Jan Verhaas because there was an incident about 3/4 years ago where he called a miss on Mark Selby and Selby overturned it by 'swearing' the ball had touched - I think it ended up being reviewed by 'VAR', even though it technically wasn't within the rules to do so, and got switched back to the referee decision but he should have stood his ground in the first place anyway.

I digress anyway - an Allen v Trump final would be nice, the form player of the season against the Masters Champion who has had a poor season, coming in to this tournament as only 10th seed on the one year list, but could just have had the catalyst he needs by winning at the Ally Pally when not even playing that well.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

Jack is turning in to the new age Jimmy White - only with Jack he can't get over the line in any ranking event, not just the Worlds like Jimmy!

I agree that the free ball incident changed a lot and to be honest was a joke.

The referee is called that for a reason, you can politely question them, shake your head in frustration or whatever - but their decision stands. It creates a dangerous precedent when players are doing what Allen did.

It's not even like we can say he wouldn't have tried it with big Jan Verhaas because there was an incident about 3/4 years ago where he called a miss on Mark Selby and Selby overturned it by 'swearing' the ball had touched - I think it ended up being reviewed by 'VAR', even though it technically wasn't within the rules to do so, and got switched back to the referee decision but he should have stood his ground in the first place anyway.

I digress anyway - an Allen v Trump final would be nice, the form player of the season against the Masters Champion who has had a poor season, coming in to this tournament as only 10th seed on the one year list, but could just have had the catalyst he needs by winning at the Ally Pally when not even playing that well.

The referee should have been stronger, and made a final ruling much sooner - but, as you say,, there's been others who've also let the players 'take over' too much.

It was a shame, once she finally did make a call, that Jack wasn't stronger and let himself be swayed by Allen. As Mark showed the ruthless winning mindset later in the frame by taking the free ball that won him the frame, rather than returning the favour. That's the kind of hardness and ruthlessness that Ebdon needs to bring out in Jack if he's going to start winning tournaments.

I agree with you that an Allen v Trump final would be great to see from the remaining players. Judd's playing probably the best I've seen him play so far this season at this tournament - after grinding out The Masters success with mostly sheer will and determination, mixed with occasional genius. While Allen is playing like Judd did at The Masters - grinding out wins despite not being at his best.

 

[ChrisNelson]

The referee should have been stronger, and made a final ruling much sooner - but, as you say,, there's been others who've also let the players 'take over' too much.

It was a shame, once she finally did make a call, that Jack wasn't stronger and let himself be swayed by Allen. As Mark showed the ruthless winning mindset later in the frame by taking the free ball that won him the frame, rather than returning the favour. That's the kind of hardness and ruthlessness that Ebdon needs to bring out in Jack if he's going to start winning tournaments.

I agree with you that an Allen v Trump final would be great to see from the remaining players. Judd's playing probably the best I've seen him play so far this season at this tournament - after grinding out The Masters success with mostly sheer will and determination, mixed with occasional genius. While Allen is playing like Judd did at The Masters - grinding out wins despite not being at his best.

Good point regarding Peter Ebdon, he will have been fuming sat in the crowd watching Jack effectively allowing himself to become a pushover.

I doubt it will be happening again while they're working together.

But also World Snooker need to take both Molgorzata and Mark aside to remind them of their roles - as ref therefore in charge of the match, and as player therefore do what the ref says!

It's a difficult one with snooker rules because so little of it is subjective - 99% of things that happen in snooker are black and white but there's always this odd one where it's so tight you'll always have differing opinions but this is where they need an overall tournament manager/head referee who she could have called over to back her up. Especially with it having happened on the TV table and therefore the spotlight falling on it.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Sucks about Zhao Xintong - really had potential

Ronnie, Williams etc are going to have to go another 10 years

 

[Bertie Wooster]

Very solid SF efforts by Judd and Mark Allen.

Sets up, as suggested earlier on the thread, an exciting final between the form player of the season and last weeks Masters champion.

Could also be a fascinating tactical battle, given Allen's slowed down, tactical game this week. Interesting to see if he sticks to that in the final and, if he does, how Judd plays in response.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

I don't watch any of the signing / dancing / Talent shows on TV, so had no idea Stephen Hendry had been on that Masked Singer pile of s***e until I googled what the hell they were talking about on today's Snooker.

 

[ChrisNelson]

I don't watch any of the signing / dancing / Talent shows on TV, so had no idea Stephen Hendry had been on that Masked Singer pile of s***e until I googled what the hell they were talking about on today's Snooker.

And yet maintains his wild card for the tour at someone else's expense!!

 

[poleglass red]

those last few frames, Allen chanelling his inner Cliff Thorburn. Not great snooker per se, but ground out the victory nonetheless.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

And yet maintains his wild card for the tour at someone else's expense!!

Yeah, that's a mistake.

I was a big fan of Stephen Hendry as a player, so was initially pleased to get the chance to see him again when he got a wild card same as the likes of White, Doherty, etc.

But he's not taken his return seriously at all and, as you say, that's not right given he's on there at the expense of an amateur player.

The 'wild card' for older players who aren't earning their place on tour through results might need looking at again now that 4 places on the tour are already being filled by female players who haven't earned their place on tour through Q School either and who barely win any matches on the men's / professional circuit.

Taking away more spots with older players who are not winning much, finishing outside the top 64, but being given wild cards to remain on tour is further reducing the chances for some much needed younger players to earn the opportunity of getting on the tour. If those older players manage to come through Q school and get on the tour then at least they've earned it, and the younger players have had a fair crack at taking their place.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

I'm not much of a fan of the Shoot-Out - hate the raucous drunken crowd; the shot clock and the annoying beeps; that it's been given ranking tournament status, etc...

But the one thing it's handy for is to 'personalise' some of the lower ranked players, and as an introduction to some of the younger amateurs. I keep an eye on the Q-Tour and younger players so I knew about the likes of Stan Moody and Liam Davies when they appeared last year, but I'd never heard of 14 year olds Riley Powell or Vladislav Gradinari so I'll certainly take a note of how they progress from now on.

I was following Ben Mertens and Julien Leclercq in recent seasons, hoping they got on the tour (which they did of course this year). So delighted to see Leclercq reach his first ranking final - albeit just the Shoot-Out. He'd had a quiet start to his first year on Tour but hopefully that run - and £20,000 and ranking points - will help him settle.

I was (once again) gutted when Jack Lisowski got knocked out in the last 16. He was easily the highest ranked seed left by then and given whose managed to win this tournament over the years it was a great opportunity for him to finally get that first ranking title. And yet another that's passed him by.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

Congratulations to young Stan Moody for getting his Tour Card for the next 2 years!

I've been following him and Liam Davies (as well as Ben Mertens and Julien Leclercq) for the last couple of years. And stayed up tonight to watch him on the WST site in the final of the U18 tournament in Australia - which he's just won (2.10am here in the UK) to get his tour card.

An impressive performance and thoroughly deserved 5-1 victory over Liam Pullen.

 

[Stookie]

Congratulations to young Stan Moody for getting his Tour Card for the next 2 years!

I've been following him and Liam Davies (as well as Ben Mertens and Julien Leclercq) for the last couple of years. And stayed up tonight to watch him on the WST site in the final of the U18 tournament in Australia - which he's just won (2.10am here in the UK) to get his tour card.

An impressive performance and thoroughly deserved 5-1 victory over Liam Pullen.

good player is Stan. Plays in the club I go in. I’ve seen Sean Murphy in there doing a bit of work with him.

 

[ChrisNelson]

If Lisowski can finish the job off in his quarter-final then this could be the one and @Bertie Wooster can sleep easier

 

[Bertie Wooster]

If Lisowski can finish the job off in his quarter-final then this could be the one and @Bertie Wooster can sleep easier

I was just coming on here to post about Jack being in the S/F - and being the highest ranked player left!

Semi-Final line up for the German Masters:

Jack Lisowski v Tom Ford
Ali Carter v Robert Milkins

Milkins has had both a 146 and a 147 break during the tournament.

 

[ChrisNelson]

That was unbelievable from the Milkman.

There’s now been 29 breaks of 146 in competitive snooker yet over 180 maximums. Very strange!

 

[Pexbo]

That was unbelievable from the Milkman.

There’s now been 29 breaks of 146 in competitive snooker yet over 180 maximums. Very strange!

Black is far more accessible than the pink and then you have the fact people will go out of their way for a 147 whereas talking a pink means they’re more likely to accept another pink or worse if it gives them a chance of a tournament high break.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

FFS!

Once again heartbreak for Jack - and his long suffering fans.

 

[cyberman]

Jacks biggest opponent follows him into every tournament no matter who else falls

 

[Bertie Wooster]

Jacks biggest opponent follows him into every tournament no matter who else falls

Yep.

I was pinning real hopes on the Shoot Out and the German Masters - both with weakened fields and both going to be won by players ranked much lower than Jack.

This is the One is now also becoming my unofficial anthem for Jack's continual search for that first ranking title. When the field opened up for him this week, I really allowed myself to feel this could be the one yet again.

Those two missed chances in that SF final frame decider will haunt me almost as much as they must be haunting Jack. Up there with the miss in the SF final frame decider in the UK Championship v Mark Allen earlier in the season.

 

[ChrisNelson]

I'm sorry to say it's starting to feel like it will never happen!

This tournament was a huge opportunity for him, with so many top players sitting it out and having reached the last 4 he will have fancied his chances.

Milkins and Ford are both solid players, they've been around a long time and have multiple Crucible appearances between them - and they can beat anyone on their day.

So it's not like he lost to someone from the Dog & Duck snooker team.

And both semi-finals going to the final frame made it a great day on Saturday.

Well done to Ali Carter for the win, Ford never really turned up yesterday and it was quite comprehensive.

A 2nd title win in 3 final appearances, seems he really likes the Tempodrome.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

Sorry to keep making this about Jack, but there's a very good, and nice, article about him on Eurosport site written by Dave Hendon...

https://www.eurosport.com/snooker/g...e-breakthrough-arrives_sto9374199/story.shtml

 

[ChrisNelson]

I really like Dave Hendon, he and the Eurosport team in general are light years ahead of the BBC coverage of snooker.

In fact I'd probably put ITV in second place. If you watch snooker clips from 30 years ago you hear Dennis Taylor and John Virgo and sometimes things need freshening up.

Anyway I digress - the word 'when' in the headline needs replacing with 'if'.

He's a bit like Michael Smith in darts, he got over the line but for years it was questionable whether it would ever arrive, not because of talent on the oche but because of strength between the ears.

I think Jack has the same problem, he doesn't like people talking about him as the best player without a ranking event to his name.

But unfortunately that's what will keep happening until he does, it's the nature of sports journalism.

It was the same with Ryan Day, for years he was that player everyone talked about until he made the breakthrough.

Although having said that, 2 of the 4 tournaments he won are no longer ranking events and one of the others, the Shootout should never in a million years be one.

 

[cyberman]

I think Jack is too aware of people watching him and wants to show off how good he is. You can tell he feels the camera on him with his exaggerated facial expressions when he’s walking back to his seat. He will flat out out ignore position and go for some mad long red that’ll only lead him into another long colour after that.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

Great effort from Liam Davies tonight - the 16 year old Welshman who I'm really hoping can get on the Main Tour soon.

He came back from 3-1 down to Noppon Saengkham - having lost the 4th frame on a re-spotted black - to win 4-3. Just now completing the victory with a clearance of 122 in the decider.

 

[ChrisNelson]

Great effort from Liam Davies tonight - the 16 year old Welshman who I'm really hoping can get on the Main Tour soon.

He came back from 3-1 down to Noppon Saengkham - having lost the 4th frame on a re-spotted black - to win 4-3. Just now completing the victory with a clearance of 122 in the decider.

Highest break so far to Jack - it's a sign

 

[Bertie Wooster]

Highest break so far to Jack - it's a sign

I wish!

I'm going into this one with even loss hope than usual as he's in a tough section of the draw with a very tough 'potential route' - Robertson in the last 16, Trump or Murphy in the QF, etc.

 

[ChrisNelson]

I wish!

I'm going into this one with even loss hope than usual as he's in a tough section of the draw with a very tough 'potential route' - Robertson in the last 16, Trump or Murphy in the QF, etc.

The results yesterday were as dominant as I can remember for the higher ranked players in each match.

Bingham went out but I don't think that even counts as a shock to be honest, he's not been the same player at all since his return to the tour.

And his 22/23 season has been an absolute train wreck, the only tournament in which he's remotely shone is the Masters and he didn't earn any ranking points for that.

Yesterdays results have set up some cracking potential matches later in the tournament.