Wow a lot of work went into that post. Now we know where Rafa Benitez went wrong with his list.
Refereeing in Liverpool games is embarassing every week | Added videos now to the OP
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
Definitely. I’m loving the factual clarity of some of the OPs, YouTube videos and all. Kloppo’s deffo got the caff frothing.I like this fachtual thread. I have just hooked it up to my veins so don't need reminders when new posts come in.
Reminds me a bit of when we used to froth over old purple nose influencing the refs, back in the days when it was just considered a bit of clever wee glaswegian gamesmanship rather than the worldwide corruption plot they’re crying about now.
I reckon kloppo needs to spend every prematch press conference targeting the referee both for our games and for united and Newcastle’s. I’d just die laughing as the VAR missteps pile up in our favour.
To be fair, that's a lot of really terrible decisions in the OP.
I miss Rafa’s fachts. That meltdown was up there with Keegan’s “I’ll luuuv it if we beat them”
The conspiracy theory would be to suggest the refs are paid off, or the premier league has some kind of agenda to boost Liverpool’s chances. But they really do get a disproportionate amount of favourable decisions and it’s bizarre.
Old purple nose! You are hilarious, how do you come up with that stuff?
Old purple nose? Remember where you are fella. Keep that shite for when you’re over on that cesspit that is RAWK.
I'd even challenge the disproportionate amount, especially as its conveyed in that post.
Loads is twisted and overlooked: firstly, the season before Amar's cut-off of VAR decisions, we were the worst effected in the league by overturned VAR decisions. I specifically remember that, in this forum, that was seen as a sign that the on-field refs were favouring us. You can't really win if it's rival fans looking for reasons why the team is getting favourable decisions.
That's before you scrutinise the actual decisions being used as evidence. I'm not going to justify them all - some we definitely got away with, but the volume is exaggerated with things like:
The West Ham hand ball against us on Thiago which is never a handball by the rules.
The Bournemouth handball for us which literally redirects the ball away from the goal with the hand. Harsh but you can't do that.
The Havertz offside goal where you can see, on the video itself, that he's beyond the last defender when he knocks in the rebound.
The Ephram own goal which is the result of a silly loophole which doesn't account for the attacker's position (a loophole I think we were the first to suffer from when Lovren conceded a penalty on Kane because he played the ball to stop a blatantly offside Kane getting to it)
Van Djik's sending off against Everton being basically identical to the Skipp challenge on Diaz which never got a peep in the OP.
I think this thread is far more embarassing than the refereeing. Must be a right laugh for neutrals or Liverpool supporters.
We need to get on with our games, focus on what we control. I'm glad our manager is not a big moaner or complainer about refs. It's ridiculous and cringeworthy.
We need to get on with our games, focus on what we control. I'm glad our manager is not a big moaner or complainer about refs. It's ridiculous and cringeworthy.
It's not really a morality contest, it's about winning trophies and it's a competitive sport. If you feel hard done by, it's perfectly natural to highlight it. Refereeing decisions is such a big part of the outcome of not only a single game but the league and if you add it all up it's detrimental. If nothing else, it actually gives context to what usually is cringeworthy and that is the constant emotional rollercoaster our fans go through, feeding of narratives put in motion by the media.
Marriner was horrible, no excuses.
Meh. Seems to me most clubs have been on both sides on some pretty terrible decisions and VAR work this year. It's the inconsistency that is truly infuriating - not some kind of bias. I wish some managers would start calling it out with examples.
Thats true but Liverpool seem to be getting more big decisions going their way than anyone else and tgeir players seem to be immune from red cards, in their last 3 games alone they have earnt at least 6 points through the big decisions in those games going their way.
Its infuriating when you see teams like City (eg both games against Fulham and home against Villa) and Liverpool (eg Fulham home) getting awarded penalties for someone going down after virtually no contact if any while we cant get a ref to even give a penalty shout a 2nd look after a clear handball or foul in the box.
@Damien can you ban Liverpool supporters from this thread? They are basically just trolling here.
Last night there was failure by Sky to re-run a lot of the fouls on United players. Now that can't be accidental when they actually had a camera in the changing room. As for Liverpool fans trolling here seem they think its safe to come out of their collective coma when closing the gap.
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Yes, Liverpool pretty much have immunity to red cards, get soft pens, VAR didn't even work in that FA cup game v Wolves. Absolutely ludicrous.
Brighton have been done pretty badly this season, v Spurs (biggest travesty of the season) and of course Liverpool as well. Anyone thinking we have totally fair refereeing, 15 minutes of stoppage time, 7 in the first and 8 in the second, in the Arsenal Southampton game when they're behind. When else have you seen a game with 15 minutes of stoppage time?
Brighton have been done pretty badly this season, v Spurs (biggest travesty of the season) and of course Liverpool as well. Anyone thinking we have totally fair refereeing, 15 minutes of stoppage time, 7 in the first and 8 in the second, in the Arsenal Southampton game when they're behind. When else have you seen a game with 15 minutes of stoppage time?
Well, this is obvious for quite some time. Klopp worked hard for it though.
Yup. It is
He didn't have to work that hard. The media is always more than eager to fellate Liverpool, and the refs do whatever suits the media because their main priority is to not have their work questioned. If you're kind to Liverpool, there are no consequences. If you do anything that may slightly inconvenience Liverpool, there's hell to pay. They dance to that tune. It has been abundantly obvious for years.
I’d say the decisions in our own games don’t always help us in that regard.
Not enough people commenting on this video, in particular. Seems to have slipped a good number of people that the ref actually told a Fulham player that it wasn't a penalty. From the bloody horses mouth itself.
I don't think we help ourselves. That's the main problem. Performance. And not the performance of the fella with a whistle.
How does moaning about referees give context to what fans go through? Fans go through that because of the emotion in a game and inconsistency of results. 99.9% of that stuff is about quality of player and quality of performance, that's what is dictating whether we are happy, sad or indifferent after games, especially a season's worth of games where variance is less of a thing in terms of a decision or luck in a match. I don't think a ref comes into that equation, people are just knee jerk reacting to results which is where strange opinions come from.
I think refs importance are overblown because fans just want someone to vent at because they've already taken aim at the players, and you can't exactly blame the opposition for beating you. So why not the neutral guy with a whistle, must be his fault. That and a blame culture that seems to be abundant in society. That's all I can guess. It would explain why every single set of fans seems to believe they're largely hard done by with decisions, when logically this is an impossibility.
Absolutely spot on.
Meh, very much a Liverpool fans perspective.
That Jota kick to the head last week would not only have been a red for us, it would have been talked about in the context of criminal assault and a long term ban.
As much as most of us are biased (obviously) it's hard to tell imo how the actual facts fall. I'd love a neutral party to weigh in. From my perspective, between Casemiro and the way our 50/50 or 'seen them given' penalties have completely dried up versus Pool getting quite a few, it feels like this season has been particularly harsh on United, and lenient on Liverpool. But I don't watch LFC matches in their entirety, so I don't get a feel for the balance of missed decisions.
The simple truth is that the media makes more money if bad things happen to Manchester United. If we were having the season Chelsea are having you probably wouldn't know there's a tight relegation battle, you'd only know Haaland is doing well because he almost came to United and you'd have no idea about the Top 4 because the media-gasm would be non-stop. Article about United getting preferential treatment from a ref? Simply gets more clicks than an article about United getting screwed. It's the burden of being the best in the formative years of so many people.
I posted a thread about 6 months ago that this partly falls on ETH and the rest of the club. I hate the fact that referees - consciously or unconciously - feel it's easier to give decisions against us than for us if they're tight. I can do nothing about that. Fernandes, despite all his yelling, can do nothing about that. The media control this sport, it's a media-created entertainment product. ETH has direct access, and the club has indirect access. We HAVE to start using this channels if we really believe we're being disadvantaged.
What Klopp has achieved with his penalty comments is utterly brilliant. It's probably cost us close to 10 points since he gave the interview. It's exactly the kind of thing Fergie would have done.
When Casemiro got sent off for the first time, much less the second, I want ETH up there for 2 whole minues, staring calmly into the camera, asking why there is one rule for one player, and a different for another. I want him to interupt the next press conference question about Rashford's fitness, and instead ask the press if they've heard yet what the difference between, say, the Havertz challenge and Casemiro's red. And then ask if they've heard between Fabinho's and Casemiro's. I want him creating headlines which puts pressure on referees not because I believe it should be effective but because I know it IS effective.
Hell, before the LFC game I would have had thoes penalty stats to hand re Klopps comments. And I would have had the lack of penalties and red cards at Anfield in the last decade too. Football is narrative, and we're too passive. And it hurts on the pitch.
The simple truth is that the media makes more money if bad things happen to Manchester United. If we were having the season Chelsea are having you probably wouldn't know there's a tight relegation battle, you'd only know Haaland is doing well because he almost came to United and you'd have no idea about the Top 4 because the media-gasm would be non-stop. Article about United getting preferential treatment from a ref? Simply gets more clicks than an article about United getting screwed. It's the burden of being the best in the formative years of so many people.
I posted a thread about 6 months ago that this partly falls on ETH and the rest of the club. I hate the fact that referees - consciously or unconciously - feel it's easier to give decisions against us than for us if they're tight. I can do nothing about that. Fernandes, despite all his yelling, can do nothing about that. The media control this sport, it's a media-created entertainment product. ETH has direct access, and the club has indirect access. We HAVE to start using this channels if we really believe we're being disadvantaged.
What Klopp has achieved with his penalty comments is utterly brilliant. It's probably cost us close to 10 points since he gave the interview. It's exactly the kind of thing Fergie would have done.
When Casemiro got sent off for the first time, much less the second, I want ETH up there for 2 whole minues, staring calmly into the camera, asking why there is one rule for one player, and a different for another. I want him to interupt the next press conference question about Rashford's fitness, and instead ask the press if they've heard yet what the difference between, say, the Havertz challenge and Casemiro's red. And then ask if they've heard between Fabinho's and Casemiro's. I want him creating headlines which puts pressure on referees not because I believe it should be effective but because I know it IS effective.
Hell, before the LFC game I would have had thoes penalty stats to hand re Klopps comments. And I would have had the lack of penalties and red cards at Anfield in the last decade too. Football is narrative, and we're too passive. And it hurts on the pitch.
That's if you trust the player.
If it's really true the ref should be being investigated. As he's either made a bent call, or he's been reviewing it at half time or something, which isn't allowed.
This
The media aren’t going to highlight any of this so it’s up to Erik to put it out there. We’re up against a blanket dismissal from all media quarters of the conscious or unconscious bias towards Liverpool/against us. If does need to be put out there more strongly. The videos and details at the top of this thread are damning and only the tip of the iceberg
Correct only coming out of their comas now they are closing the gap.
The Liverpool pen against Fulham v Bruno's non pen against arsenal at Emirates v basically anything Grealish initiates. We have VVD in the Everton game punch Gordon in the face during a melia v Casemiro nonsense sending off against Palace. Fabinho should be on a 10 match ban by now. The Salah given goal against Wolves V Rashford recorded breaking cancelled goal from a pass from Wout. Palace game elbow by Mateta on Martinez, McTominay penalty denied in which instance the media stated it was a penalty but can see how it wasn't. Notts Forest no penalty on clear foul on Weghorst again he clearly gets the ball first.
Media overall response to ETH is that he is moaning about nothing and that in particular the Mateta elbow incident and Carroll's actions are negated by the fact that Casemiro and Martinez can " put it about themselves". We all had to accept Ayew punching Fred on the throat especially when Var ran that scene numerous times (live) and decided to overlook it and move on and get a United player sent off. Also ignores is the violent conduct that put Antony into the bricked area that started it all.
We basically need a baseball bat around the head to get a pen. For most of our calls the media state we either instigated contact or there wasn't enough contact.
went down to easy, was looking of it.
Finally the PMGOL post match comments which in real life goes as follows
"Guy No.1 walks out of pub , and Guy no.2 outside turns and punches Guy no.1. PMGOL releases a statement after being interviewed by police and finds out guy no.2 is an off duty ref. PMGOL states the guy ran out of the pub and instigated the contact with the Ref who's hand was closed as it was a cold day and was hailing a taxi. Even when they are wrong PMGOL goes overboard to defend Refs & Var.
Now I have no problem with our treatment if it is consistent across the board however on a Sat we have an incident not go our way same incident 24hrs later results in opposite call . I think this is what annoys most people. If Casemiro is going so does Ayew. We judge it harsh, but ok, 10v10.
Because they don't agree with you?
Don't forget to ask to thread ban everyone else that thinks you're going way over the top here!Did any of you watch the game today? Any opinions on the ref?
A few fair points, but even if every single set of fans seem to believe that, it doesn't mean it can never be true. Some fans thought Barcelona paid refs, happened to be true but it doesn't mean every club accused by fans actually did that. Each club has a different set of circumstance and narratives. It seems United's downfall is something that gets a lot of money generated, so even a small set back the media will surely turn it into a shit storm. This shit storm can be orchestrated by the ref himself, as Clattenburg has admitted happens. These circumstances, narratives and stories gets brought into games and has an affect on fans. Yet, the emotional perception of where the club is headed has nothing to do with critiquing the level of refereeing in the league.
We have done well this season. We've played better football than most teams, for longer periods except City and Arsenal who has been better and some more entertaining like Brighton etc. But we're right up there, and with a few breaks on the refereeing part we could have been very close to top. Not good enough yet, but a more than acceptable season. Yet, here we are being fecked over by refs and now losing top 4 to Liverpool is the talking point. And we're Back to the emotional perception bit, a club in decline etc. No talk of how these decisions push that narrative
I can go into detail. Why do we rarely see replays of our penalty claims when VAR "takes a quick look and deem it not penalty"? You never get to actually see the whole situation zoomed in and replayed on the broadcast, but every time that happens to the team we play, they replay the situation a lot. It's super weird. It's an actual difference in the directing of the broadcast. Same with VAR, they pick and choose what to show and what not to show to affect the game as they please. Maybe it's not always intended like that but that's what happens.
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This entire thread is just Liverpool fans desperately trying to defend the indefensible.. brilliant, great wumming!
Fans are so biased that when they see inconsistent refereeing, they only see bad calls for the opposition. Bad calls in our favour are ignored.
Way too sensible for this thread. I’m thinking most of the posters on here are too young to have seen 20 years of an old mgr of theirs berating refs and getting what was known as Fergie Time. There is no doubt the PL wanted united to win every game and get every ref decision to go united’s way because it was good for revenue and growing the league with the marquee club . Add in Ferguson to kill refs week in and week out and you have the reason united was so successful way back when and had nothing to do with Cantona; Beckham , Giggs, Cole, Scholes and the rest of the overhyped glam boys.
This was the view of opposition supporters from that time period and it was 20 years of moaning ( me included )so let’s give Liverpool a break, after all it’s only been 5 years of the PL and Liverpool conspiracy not 20 yearts
These kinds of threads are embarrassing for any forum - unless it's based on concrete revelations like in the case of barcelona. Literally any club can be claimed to have been favored by cherry picking clips from games - it's a fact.
I’m not a huge fan of this thread because like @Mshafeek says above, we could find referees decision clips to suit any narrative for any club.
But I do agree with Flying High’s post above. I’m genuinely shocked with how little focus has been on that Jota challenge.
First of all, I cannot understand how any ref, with the aid of VAR doesn’t send Jota off there. I don’t think there are conspiracies, but refs are obviously prone to narratives painted by the media etc. so I genuinely believe if that was Casemiro, it would have been an instant red, without the use of VAR even.
And as United sell papers and create headlines, if one of our players had escaped punishment for that challenge, we would still be hearing about it on every sky sports segment, talksport segment.
Just think back to the goal against City, which, like it or not, was legally onside, and we were still hearing about it 2 weeks later. Here we have a boot to the head which has barely been mentioned.
@Cheimoon yeah these Liverpool fans just disagree. Calling Cantona and the rest just over hyped glam boys and we only won because of the refs is surely not fishing for bites or wumming.
Good luck doing the same for UTD this season then.