Refs & VAR 2021/22

[Klopper76]

You’ve just posted a video that shows Jota throwing himself into the keeper then suggest it actually supports your view it was a penalty? What

How does that show Jota throwing himself into the keeper? It shows him try to dink the ball over the keeper, miss, then look up to see where the ball is, then change direction to try and chase the ball.

Edit: I'm not saying the keeper has taken him out deliberately by the way. There's not much he can do by the time they collide. I've seen weaker penalties given than that though.

 

[TheReligion]

How does that show Jota throwing himself into the keeper? It shows him try to dink the ball over the keeper, miss, then look up to see where the ball is, then change direction to try and chase the ball.

Edit: I'm not saying the keeper has taken him out deliberately by the way. There's not much he can do by the time they collide. I've seen weaker penalties given than that though.

Arsene. ARSENE! Come down from there Arsene!

That terrible Mister Ferguson will be gone soon!

 

[Klopper76]

Arsene. ARSENE! Come down from there Arsene!

That terrible Mister Ferguson will be gone soon!

You know you'd want a penalty for that if it's United.

 

[TheReligion]

@Klopper76 you can literally see him side step in to the keeper. Ha Ha give it up man.

You’re literally the only person in the world arguing against it. Even Hanson and Lawrenson won’t touch this one.

 

[Klopper76]

@Klopper76 you can literally see him side step in to the keeper. Ha Ha give it up man.

You’re literally the only person in the world arguing against it. Even Hanson and Lawrenson won’t touch this one.

Someone has to defend poor little Jota. At the very least I don't think he's trying to force contact there. At least not like Kane or Salah have done previously.

Anyway it all ended happily ever after. I'll be back in here to argue the other side when we get one given against us like that...obviously.

 

[TheReligion]

Someone has to defend poor little Jota. At the very least I don't think he's trying to force contact there. At least not like Kane or Salah have done previously.

Anyway it all ended happily ever after. I'll be back in here to argue the other side when we get one given against us like that...obviously.

Jota is quite the little diver actually and that’s exactly what he’s up to here!

 

[alexthelion]

Based on the below video it looks to me like Jota is going to collide with the keeper regardless of what he does. Jota changes direction once he see's that he's missed the ball with an attempted flick over the keeper, to try and catch up with it. The collision with Guaita probably looks less like a foul if Jota doesn't change direction, and more like a 50/50.

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If you're a keeper in the box and miss the ball but take the player, you're going to give away a penalty most of the time. There must be someone out there on the Caf that sees where I'm coming from...anyone?

Can you not see that Jota steps sideways into the keeper?

 

[Klopper76]

Jota is quite the little diver actually and that’s exactly what he’s up to here!

Must've learned from your Bruno.

Can you not see that Jota steps sideways into the keeper?

Seems like that collision is going to happen regardless after Jota chests the ball.

 

[Klopper76]

I'm not arguing this any more. I'm clearly wrong because no one else is backing me up.

 

[alexthelion]

Seems like that collision is going to happen regardless after Jota chests the ball.

If Jota had kept to his original path, he'd be going straight on, he doesn't, he steps sideways into the keeper.

 

[Klopper76]

If Jota had kept to his original path, he'd be going straight on, he doesn't, he steps sideways into the keeper.

It's fine, I've given up.

 

[WeePat]

I'm not arguing this any more. I'm clearly wrong because no one else is backing me up.

I've followed the conversation in here since the game and I really, reaaaallllyy tried to see it from your perspective, but it seems like the more video evidence you produce the more wrong I think you are

 

[Klopper76]

I've followed the conversation in here since the game and I really, reaaaallllyy tried to see it from your perspective, but it seems like the more video evidence you produce the more wrong I think you are

I think I'm starting to form the same opinion.

 

[Doracle]

I’d love to hear from the ref on this one. What did he think had happened when he saw Jota run into the keeper live? When he viewed it onscreen what did he see differently? It’s an impossible one to understand.

I still think the only one I can think of where the referee stood by their original decision was when CHO punched the ball in the box against United. The fact that was when one of them chose to make a stand, over the most clear and obvious error possible, still really irks me!

 

[Klopper76]

My general opinion on VAR is that it is needed. It’s gradually removing incorrect offside calls and it is picking up/overturning some incorrect calls.

My biggest issue is that there’s another referee miles away in a room advising the on the field referee based on a completely different point of view of an incident. If you take that away you could introduce a challenge system similar to the NBA. The referee then goes to the side of the pitch where the fourth official is and they both review the incident to come to a decision.

The current format doesn’t work because as soon as a referee is told to review an incident himself, he’s basically being advised to overturn his decision. Referee’s are now second guessing themselves even when a decision is correct. They don’t have anyone else on the pitch or around them to assist and so as soon as they’re at a monitor, they probably feel under pressure to reverse it.

I do think VAR is needed in the game, it just needs some work.

 

[Berbasbullet]

I think I'm starting to form the same opinion.

fair play, it can be hard to climb down from something as important as an internet opinion. Well done.

 

[Hughes35]

Always said and always will repeat myself.

As long as we don't get any explaniation live with where people can ask questions, this will continue.
As long as we don't have mic for tv audience this will continiue.

Dissaster for a leading league in the world to have such low standards.

I agree on one hand but then i'm really not sure being able to hear would help.

Take the Jota situation for example. What on earth could the refs be saying that would change peoples minds? ................ "Oh yea, we've watched that back and think the keeper has clattered Jota and you should look again"............"Just watching it, do you think the keeper takes him out?"............."Yea we do"................

It's a stupid decision and hearing 2 or 3 refs come to a stupid decision is probably even worse.

 

[90 + 5min]

I agree on one hand but then i'm really not sure being able to hear would help.

Take the Jota situation for example. What on earth could the refs be saying that would change peoples minds? ................ "Oh yea, we've watched that back and think the keeper has clattered Jota and you should look again"............"Just watching it, do you think the keeper takes him out?"............."Yea we do"................

It's a stupid decision and hearing 2 or 3 refs come to a stupid decision is probably even worse.

To hear is just for us to understand what is going on? Do they flip a coin? Do they throw dice? We need to understand on what ground they take decisions that for us are wierd and in some cases shocking.

It will be clear that if it is incompetence those people should be replaced from next round.

 

[11101]

Based on the below video it looks to me like Jota is going to collide with the keeper regardless of what he does. Jota changes direction once he see's that he's missed the ball with an attempted flick over the keeper, to try and catch up with it. The collision with Guaita probably looks less like a foul if Jota doesn't change direction, and more like a 50/50.

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If you're a keeper in the box and miss the ball but take the player, you're going to give away a penalty most of the time. There must be someone out there on the Caf that sees where I'm coming from...anyone?

I can see why it was given, the ball was still well within play when the contact happened and he did take Jota out whether he stepped into him or not. It's one of those calls where you need a referee who knows how to play the game and can see what's going on, that Jota initiates the contact after he knows he's lost the ball. Aka it's correct by the letter of the law but a bad interpretation of the law, and therefore bad refereeing.

 

[Bubz27]

I agree on one hand but then i'm really not sure being able to hear would help.

Take the Jota situation for example. What on earth could the refs be saying that would change peoples minds? ................ "Oh yea, we've watched that back and think the keeper has clattered Jota and you should look again"............"Just watching it, do you think the keeper takes him out?"............."Yea we do"................

It's a stupid decision and hearing 2 or 3 refs come to a stupid decision is probably even worse.

Accountability is never a bad thing. It'd force them to be more articulate and thoughtful with what they say, for fear of looking like an idiot.

 

[TheLiverBird]

I'm not arguing this any more. I'm clearly wrong because no one else is backing me up.

Probably not great back up as I’m also another scouser. But it was a clear penalty for me.

I’m fully aware it’s an unpopular view point even amongst many Liverpool fans, but the keeper positioned himself in such a stupid position it was an easy penalty for Jota too seek.

it’s almost like everyone is missing this point.

What is the keeper doing? He’s no where near the ball and flying in carelessly setting up a penalty opportunity.

Jota could have got to the ball imo but the keep has come so far into him Jota’s step towards him becomes redundant.

 

[Hughes35]

Accountability is never a bad thing. It'd force them to be more articulate and thoughtful with what they say, for fear of looking like an idiot.

This is why I'm torn.

On paper I agree 100% with the accountability. I just fear that in reality it would lead to refs getting even more abuse than they currently do without really improving much.

The refs already know when they cock up, they just don't seem able not to.

 

[Bubz27]

This is why I'm torn.

On paper I agree 100% with the accountability. I just fear that in reality it would lead to refs getting even more abuse than they currently do without really improving much.

The refs already know when they cock up, they just don't seem able not to.

1 step back to take 2 forwards.

 

[alexthelion]

Probably not great back up as I’m also another scouser. But it was a clear penalty for me.

I’m fully aware it’s an unpopular view point even amongst many Liverpool fans, but the keeper positioned himself in such a stupid position it was an easy penalty for Jota too seek.

it’s almost like everyone is missing this point.

What is the keeper doing? He’s no where near the ball and flying in carelessly setting up a penalty opportunity.

Jota could have got to the ball imo but the keep has come so far into him Jota’s step towards him becomes redundant.

 

[Klopper76]

Probably not great back up as I’m also another scouser. But it was a clear penalty for me.

I’m fully aware it’s an unpopular view point even amongst many Liverpool fans, but the keeper positioned himself in such a stupid position it was an easy penalty for Jota too seek.

it’s almost like everyone is missing this point.

What is the keeper doing? He’s no where near the ball and flying in carelessly setting up a penalty opportunity.

Jota could have got to the ball imo but the keep has come so far into him Jota’s step towards him becomes redundant.

I think it'd help if we all got an explanation from referee's as to why they've made a decision. I really don't think it helps having a second referee reviewing everything miles away in a room somewhere.

I've seen worse penalties given both for and against us than that one on the weekend though.

 

[VivaRonaldo85]

Football is my game through and through but just watch how the referee officiates at the six nations in a couple of weeks and how they interact with the var. If the on field ref is unsure, he calls for var help, not visa-versa. I’m not anti var but it is seamless in top flight rugby but still applied and communicated like a car crash in the premier league. Its use appears better understood by the referees in international football.

 

[chicha14]

Probably not great back up as I’m also another scouser. But it was a clear penalty for me.

I’m fully aware it’s an unpopular view point even amongst many Liverpool fans, but the keeper positioned himself in such a stupid position it was an easy penalty for Jota too seek.

it’s almost like everyone is missing this point.

What is the keeper doing? He’s no where near the ball and flying in carelessly setting up a penalty opportunity.

Jota could have got to the ball imo but the keep has come so far into him Jota’s step towards him becomes redundant.

What is the keeper doing? Covering the space and making himself big?
if Jota connects the ball, it is on target and the keeper is anticipating that and closing down the angle.

So what you are saying is the keeper needs to be still, wait for the shot to be taken and then react?
Jota changed his direction once he realised the ball was out of his control and made contact with the keeper, as his been said here many times.. If he does not change his running direction he will run straight off the field, nothing in it. One of the worst penalty decisions I have ever seen!

 

[Klopper76]

What is the keeper doing? Covering the space and making himself big?
if Jota connects the ball, it is on target and the keeper is anticipating that and closing down the angle.

So what you are saying is the keeper needs to be still, wait for the shot to be taken and then react?
Jota changed his direction once he realised the ball was out of his control and made contact with the keeper, as his been said here many times.. If he does not change his running direction he will run straight off the field, nothing in it. One of the worst penalty decisions I have ever seen!

If Jota doesn’t change direction he collides with the keeper. I think that collision is inevitable regardless of what Jota does after he misses the ball because of his and the keepers momentum.

It’s also not one of the worst ever given. If it happens at the other end involving a Palace player and Alisson the reaction to the incident is completely different.

 

[B20]

First I am seeing it. That's not a penalty. He's abandoned the ball to engage the keeper.

If he had followed the ball it probably would have been.

 

[Fitchett]

The Scouse goblin, Danny Murphy, spouts his usual shite on MOTD. He is probably the only person on the planet to agree with the referee's and VAR`s decision to allow the illegal handball goal last night.

 

[keithsingleton]

The Scouse goblin, Danny Murphy, spouts his usual shite on MOTD. He is probably the only person on the planet to agree with the referee's and VAR`s decision to allow the illegal handball goal last night.

Yeah I agree, what a tw@t. What these morons forget ( when it’s convenient) and I’ve heard Danny say in the past in relation to a foul, and I QUOTE! There was no intent, it was accidental a foul but you still have to give a foul because they would of gained an advantage. The same applied with the goal. all though it was accidental a advantage was gained, therefore whistle should of gone for free kick for us.

 

[Rossa]

No talk on Kelleher’s blatant red card that somehow stayed yellow?

 

[WeePat]

What does everyone make of this Martinelli sending off?

I thought it was brilliant refereeing at first, because in isolation they are two bookable offences. I don't know what the rules are about booking players twice in the same passage of play. Is there an argument to be made that Martinelli was hard done by here as he surely wouldn't have made the decision to foul the second player if he was already on a yellow card, so by delaying the first yellow card the ref contributed to Martinelli's decision making for the second foul?

Or should Martinelli have known the first push could be punished after the advantage?

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[acnumber9]

What does everyone make of this Martinelli sending off?

I thought it was brilliant refereeing at first, because in isolation they are two bookable offences. I don't know what the rules are about booking players twice in the same passage of play. Is there an argument to be made that Martinelli was hard done by here as he surely wouldn't have made the decision to foul the second player if he was already on a yellow card, so by delaying the first yellow card the ref contributed to Martinelli's decision making for the second foul?

Or should Martinelli have known the first push could be punished after the advantage?

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Good reffing for me. Players shouldn’t be allowed to get away with deliberate fouls just because they think they won’t get punished for it.

 

[WeePat]

Good reffing for me. Players shouldn’t be allowed to get away with deliberate fouls just because they think they won’t get punished for it.

The thing that makes feel a little for him is, players usually are to happy to take a yellow card to stop a break away, but they hardly ever do it when they know they're already on a yellow, so it's fair to say the refs decision contributed to Martinelli's decision making.

 

[Fitchett]

Poor reffing, as one would expect from Oliver. A yellow card has to be issued, so that a player knows that one has been issued. That did not happen last night. Secondly, the referee does not have to issue a second yellow card for the first foul committed after issuing the first yellow card. The whole situation once again showed an appalling lack of common sense by the referee. But Oliver has long been one of the referees I most dread seeing referee our matches, so his actions last night didn't surprise me in the slightest.

 

[saivet]

I think it was a fair decision for the ref to make. You can't make one offence and then believe that gives you licence to make another offence unpunished. Both incidents were cynical with no attempt to play the ball too, so you can't even give him the leeway of them being slightly mistimed tackles, he knew exactly what he was doing and was rightly sent off.

It doesn't happen often but that's irrelevant in my opinion.

 

[Powderfinger]

Martinelli was dumb and they’re both bookable offenses in isolation but still a bad sending off. He should have just stopped the match and booked Martinelli when he interfered with the throw, the ball wasn’t really even in play yet when it happened.

Referees often have a lot of discretion when it comes to sendings off and the question they really should ask is “Do I really need to ruin this match and make myself the centerpiece of the story?” Sometimes you do when it’s a really terrible challenge that deserves red or an obvious second yellow by a player who knows he’s already on one. You don’t need to do it when the player doesn’t even know he’s been booked for an offense already and hasn’t been making a lot of prior fouls while being fouled constantly himself.

If you’re about to send somebody off in a way that’s literally never been done before in the history of the PL and isn’t related to any kind of dangerous incident then just take a moment to think whether you should actually go ahead.

 

[SilentWitness]

Poor reffing, as one would expect from Oliver. A yellow card has to be issued, so that a player knows that one has been issued. That did not happen last night. Secondly, the referee does not have to issue a second yellow card for the first foul committed after issuing the first yellow card. The whole situation once again showed an appalling lack of common sense by the referee. But Oliver has long been one of the referees I most dread seeing referee our matches, so his actions last night didn't surprise me in the slightest.

Why is it a lack of common sense to apply the rules? Martinelli tried to be cynical twice and thought he'd get away with it since it was in the same phase of play. That's wrong, they're two separate incidents and can be booked individually.

 

[SilentWitness]

He should have just stopped the match and booked Martinelli when he interfered with the throw, the ball wasn’t really even in play yet when it happened.

He tried to play advantage. It's not his fault that Martinelli decided to be stupid again.