Christ, they've managed to actually use VAR properly in the Arsenal game. Penalty, no red card.
Refs & VAR 2021/22
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
It’s not VAR. it’s the incompetence of the people (referee’s) operating it.
VAR is a referee (Video Assistant Referee and all that)
The technology is obviously fine, but it can't do things by itself... It needs the refs to work and they're shit, and handcuffed (at least in this country) by a stupid "clear and obvious" system.
Unrelated to VAR, but I still find the offside rule such a contradiction. Take the Maguire goal. If we're being generous, big 'Arry knows that there's a player behind him, so he HAS to lunge in and try to cut it out, scoring an own goal.
How is that any different from, say, a goalkeeper unsighted by an offside player, who then makes a blunder resulting in a goal? The term we always hear is 'gaining an advantage from an offside position' - well I'd argue that a defender attempted to stop a ball reaching an offside player and scoring an own goal is surely gaining an advantage?
My fav example of this was years ago and I'll probably get it wrong, but Evans scored an own goal of a free kick against..Newcastle(?) where he was wrestling with a player and put it in his own net. The player was offside, but because it was own goal it was given. Makes no sense to me.
How is that any different from, say, a goalkeeper unsighted by an offside player, who then makes a blunder resulting in a goal? The term we always hear is 'gaining an advantage from an offside position' - well I'd argue that a defender attempted to stop a ball reaching an offside player and scoring an own goal is surely gaining an advantage?
My fav example of this was years ago and I'll probably get it wrong, but Evans scored an own goal of a free kick against..Newcastle(?) where he was wrestling with a player and put it in his own net. The player was offside, but because it was own goal it was given. Makes no sense to me.
This and the Havertz 'challenge' were two terrible decisions, neither were reviewed.
Fantastic point, I thought the same. How is the offside player not interfering with the play? By virtue of where Romero is, Maguire has to go for that - it's offside.
Was Romero offside? I thought it looked like he was onside, haven't seen any lines.
Has little to do with being generous, if you look at the replays you'll see that Maguire looks up and sees Romero when Maguire is starting to run towards goal, it clearly has an impact on his decision making.
For me, it should fall under being involved in active play and it should be checked if he's offside or not, as he clearly interferes with our defenders.
Unfortunately, referees are generally absolute morons, and the people making the rules aren't exactly an intelligent bunch either. Take the handball rule, for instance, the Koscielny handball goal against Burnley is an absolute favorite where in added time Chamberlain completely mishits the ball and is about to send it high over goal, but by pure dumb luck he instead hits the stretched arm of Koscielny and the ball ends up in the back of the net. However, it was accidental and not an offense, essentially a perfectly legal volleyball goal where a shot going miles off target was deflected into goal by a stretched hand.
Obviously no one wants a goal like that to stand, everyone understands it's wrong. So they introduce the daftest handball rule ever known, where even the most accidental handball ever in a build up to a goal would be disallowed by VAR. I mean, the pure stupidity of it all is absolutely breathtaking. Like that last ditch tackle where a player got absolute twatted, ball rolls onwards to a teammate that later scores, goal is disallowed because replays showed that the ball touched the players hand as he was falling after a tackle where the opposition player didn't even get the ball, or the Wilson handball against Liverpool where he has his arms along his own body, goalkeeper tackles the ball into Wilsons arm, goal disallowed.
Then they're smart enough to see that it's not working as well as they thought it would, so they modify it so that accidental handball is allowed as long as you don't instantly score from it. Accidental handball and you pass the ball to a teammate that scores = legal, the same accidental handball but you directly score from it, illegal. Brilliant.
Sadly it'll take some time before these absolute morons finds a set of rules that works well with the intention of how football should work. Things like offside and handball is simply too complicated for referees.
Peno was woeful, not so sure about the Harvetz one, he was looking at the ball. That said, he could've been easily sent off.
What I find most annoying is that decisions seem to be getting worse. This weekend we also saw a denial of Soton getting a peno for handball and in previous weeks we had that non-call in the Everton v City game and the Keita tackle in the Dipper v Chelsea League Cup final. All of those should've gone the other way.
It’s not even a difficult decision really. If a player is offside when the ball is played why should it matter who kicks it into the goal? The two are completely separate.
I have no problem at all with an accidental handball which results in a goal being allowed to stand. Yes, you are unlucky if you are the defending team but c’est la vie. There’s a lot of cruel deflections etc which can result in a goal and, if they don’t break the rules of the game, then that’s all fine.
The alternative is the total nonsense we have now where you have a different rule for one situation as opposed to another. It’s fundamentally flawed as there’s no reason at all why that dodgy handball/assist goal against us should count but if the same handball had led to him chipping it directly into the net that would have been ruled out.
A return to the same handball rule for all offences is the way forwards.
The alternative is the total nonsense we have now where you have a different rule for one situation as opposed to another. It’s fundamentally flawed as there’s no reason at all why that dodgy handball/assist goal against us should count but if the same handball had led to him chipping it directly into the net that would have been ruled out.
A return to the same handball rule for all offences is the way forwards.
You referring to the change they made a year or so back where if it hits a hand, regardless of interpretation, it's a penalty no matter what? I think that is the best way. Takes all ambiguity out of the situation, awards goals, makes the game more exciting.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they real that back in a month or so into the PL because it was resulting in too many goals? I think they should have stuck with it the entire season to get some statistical data. Chances are it was going to even out for all teams in the end.
The other thing they need to do with VAR is make the officials state why a decision was made one way or the other but they won't do that.
Nothing wrong with VAR at all, its the imbecile's that use it is the problem.
The Premiership has a bunch of useless referees that seem to get protected by Mike Riley.
Mike Riley is the one that needs dragging in front of the cameras to explain why there has been zero improvement when it comes to VAR and how its implemented.
Anyone my age will remember how pathetic Mike Riley was as a referee, so its no surprise whatsoever he is in charge of this debacle.
The Premiership has a bunch of useless referees that seem to get protected by Mike Riley.
Mike Riley is the one that needs dragging in front of the cameras to explain why there has been zero improvement when it comes to VAR and how its implemented.
Anyone my age will remember how pathetic Mike Riley was as a referee, so its no surprise whatsoever he is in charge of this debacle.
absolutely 100%. i'm amazed nobody else has mentioned this and this wasn't mentioned at the time.
He is clearly interfering with play as if he's not there the defender doesn't need to lunge for the ball.
The challenge on Diaz in the Liverpool is an absolute shocker. How nothing was given for that is beyond me.
No, I’m referring to the change they made to disallow goals where there is an accidental handball. As Bob explained above, they initially changed it so any accidental handball in the build up ruled it out and now only if the actual scorer does it. It’s nonsensical.
I wouldn’t be in favour of any ball to hand in the box being a penalty. Players should be free to defend naturally not have to do it with their hands literally behind their backs. Those defensive handballs are all about getting the judgement right on what is and isn’t deliberate.
edit - obviously agree entirely with your last point. We should be able to hear the dialogue between ref and VAR, as is the case in rugby.
Nah, that really wouldn't work. You'd end up with a tonne of pens for nonsense hand ball and you'd have attacking teams trying to flick the ball on to defenders arms.
They just need to stop being shit at making decisions. Arm unnatural position etc is good enough. The vast majority of cases if you surveyed 100 people, 90% will give the same opinion........ apart from the refs doing the game / sat in the VAR room.
Watching Premier League Weekend Review they've said that Romero was not involved in active play. He's the main target of the cross. How is he not considered active? I think the rule is wrong and should be changed.
Yeah the rule is bullshit - needs changing
It's like the Leeds opener - Bamford is clearly the target, so it should be offside. The way the current rules go, you're basically asking defenders to try work out who is or isn't offside whilst also trying to defend. It's daft.
Romero might have actually been onside (behind the ball) but yeh, point still stands.
It's bullshit, makes everything look worse than it is. A routine yellow by Allan is now a red.
Add it to about 50 other ways it makes the game worse.
Add it to about 50 other ways it makes the game worse.
What a horrendous decision that was . Not sure what was worse the fact that someone thought that it was a red card or the fact that they thought it was a clear & obvious mistake
... I thought it was a red card 
When he makes contact with ASM both feet are off the ground, and the only reason he gets ASM on the foot is because he's foot is in the air.
It's definitely reckless
When he makes contact with ASM both feet are off the ground, and the only reason he gets ASM on the foot is because he's foot is in the air.
It's definitely reckless
Just watching the highlights from Wolves Leeds yesterday.... Absolutely shocking decision to send Jimenez off with second yellow.... Goes for the ball, keeper gets it and clatters him afterwards,. What's he meant to do there? Ridiculous decision, VAR is dreadful but surely it should be available for any Red card, not just straight red!
Diaz looked at least two yards offside for the first goal today. Did it even get a look?
At the start of the move near the halfway line?
Aye. He gained a massive advantage with it. I would have thought that was still offside?
Nah the ball wasn’t played to him
Keita is a bit of s reckless prick isn't he? Got away with a blatant studs up in the cup final and what seemed like a pretty clear stamp today?
Is that what Keita got the yellow for or was that for something else?
Shows what I know. I thought it might all be part of the same "phase of play."
If the Keita challenge isn’t a red then they might as pack up.
I thought at time that should've been a red. Didn't mean it as he mistimed but ultimately studs up and completely missed the ball.
Obvious red for Keita.
We're rubbish, but I've never seen a season like this one against united. It's as if refs know the pressure is completely off where decisions around United are concerned - the spotlight is so fully on how rubbish we are. So pretty much every single 50/50 goes against us.
They're revelling in it
They're revelling in it
We’ve messed up top 4 ourselves but how many dubious decisions have we had against us? Just about every game we’ve had dodgy decisions
The handball 
Absolutely blatant.
Absolutely blatant.
Even Peter Walton said it's a harsh pen against Telles.
The thing is they're one's that get given elsewhere. Every var call this season bar one that might be 50/50 or uncertain, has gone against united and often with some bizarre interpretation of rulesThe handball
Absolutely blatant.
Regarding the handball, I know it used to be the rule that it isn't a handball if the player falls and the ball hits his hand while it's between his body and the ground being used for support. Is that still the rule?
The inconsistency has to stop. It renders the whole thing pointless. You go from inconsistency of on the spot decisions to the inconsistency of whether they arbitrarily decide to look at something or not.
Who's the VAR official today?