Rooney is finished

Is Rooney done at the required level?


  • Total voters
    1,105
Status
Not open for further replies.

Adebesi

Full Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2006
Messages
19,159
Location
Sanctity, like a cat, abhors filth.
I'm kind of eternally optimistic about Rooney. Hence I've only just started coming around to the idea his decline really is terminal, at just 30 years old. I like the idea that he gets dropped and comes back leaner, more driven and ready to roll back the years. Unfortunately, there's a very good chance he'll come back fatter and rustier. He's a player who tends to decline in form and fitness quite rapidly when he's not playing every week. Right now it's extremely hard to see how this ends other than very badly for all concerned.
I dont disagree. And maybe that is the logic behind him being picked all the time: he needs to play himself into form. That, and the point you made in your previous post, that he's always capable of producing a moment of magic from nowhere, a la FA Cup Final, and his various more modest contributions this season. In the cold light of day it is more likely than the contract clause explanation.

But if those really are the reasons the case for carrying on like this is getting harder to make. Because other people, if allowed to play themselves into form the way he has been, might - probably would - also come up with occasional moments of magic. And there is a fair-to-good chance they would be more frequent. And as for his rustiness, its getting to the point where a bit of additional rust isnt going to make a great deal of difference. We have less and less to lose, because there is less and less form to protect from this (arguably) inevitable rustiness that will come.

Ultimately, if we went this path it would be down to him. Fight for his place, in a way that you imply perhaps isnt in him, or accept he has to move to MLS or wherever.
 

NinjaZombie

Punched the air when Liverpool beat City
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Messages
10,216
If he has this 'must play when fit' clause what can we do? Must also remember he's still very marketable and he has 2.5years left.

Do we offer him an extra £25k per week or something to clean the clause out of the contract and be able to phase him out on our terms?
Marketable? EA signed a deal with United, but Martial is the United footballer they've used to market FIFA 17. I'd say even his marketability is on the wane.
 

rotherham_red

Full Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2005
Messages
7,411
Gerrard was never even close to being as bad as Rooney was yesterday.

I don't want to be a drama queen but if Mourinho persists with Rooney like Moyes and LVG did, this is going to turn bad, quickly!

He actually wouldn't get a game for Watford!!! We are paying the prick £300k a week.

It wrong. So wrong. How on earth he stayed on the field yesterday is beyond me. Pathetic performance.
I said the same last Summer after the Transfer window closed. That if LVG persisted with Rooney we won't get top 4 and he'll ultimately get sacked. With Jose I can possibly see us not being relevant in the title race if he persists with Rooney, but because of the other quality he has brought in we should get top 4 and that will save his job. It will make it harder for us to attract players though, as the optimism of Jose's new project will have gone and we will have very little to show for our big outlay the season before.
 

Barca84

Full Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2013
Messages
3,763
Location
NOT BARCELONA
Supports
Doesn't support Barca
Why do you think so? Where have we seen any indication of him ever being dropped?
There's always a first time that any player gets dropped though.

The notion that a player can play as badly as Rooney did yesterday for the next 2.5 years and not get dropped is borderline psychotic.
 

jojose

Full Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2014
Messages
960
Location
W3101
I dont disagree. And maybe that is the logic behind him being picked all the time: he needs to play himself into form. That, and the point you made in your previous post, that he's always capable of producing a moment of magic from nowhere, a la FA Cup Final, and his various more modest contributions this season. In the cold light of day it is more likely than the contract clause explanation.

But if those really are the reasons the case for carrying on like this is getting harder to make. Because other people, if allowed to play themselves into form the way he has been, might - probably would - also come up with occasional moments of magic. And there is a fair-to-good chance they would be more frequent. And as for his rustiness, its getting to the point where a bit of additional rust isnt going to make a great deal of difference. We have less and less to lose, because there is less and less form to protect from this (arguably) inevitable rustiness that will come.

Ultimately, if we went this path it would be down to him. Fight for his place, in a way that you imply perhaps isnt in him, or accept he has to move to MLS or wherever.
This is applicable to any...ANY!!! professional footballer. SO we have to keep playing Rooney because he went on a decent run in the FA Cup final??

Mata could produce a moment of magic and is also capable of putting a corner in, controlling a football and passing it to a bloke wearing the same coloured shirt.

Having got a billion goals and a zillion assists last season I am sure Miki could produce a moment of magic whilst also bringing to the table a bit of pace and the ability to beat a man.

Hell, Jesse lingaard has produced more magic in a game and a half at Wembley either side of the summer than Rooney has produced in 3 years.
 

Witchking

Full Member
Joined
May 16, 2010
Messages
4,495
Location
Angmar
I said the same last Summer after the Transfer window closed. That if LVG persisted with Rooney we won't get top 4 and he'll ultimately get sacked. With Jose I can possibly see us not being relevant in the title race if he persists with Rooney, but because of the other quality he has brought in we should get top 4 and that will save his job. It will make it harder for us to attract players though, as the optimism of Jose's new project will have gone and we will have very little to show for our big outlay the season before.
Even top 4 is under threat as the other teams looks more like a team than United do. This is a big problem for Jose to solve. Give the world a chance to see what Jose is made of.
 

Adebesi

Full Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2006
Messages
19,159
Location
Sanctity, like a cat, abhors filth.
This is applicable to any...ANY!!! professional footballer. SO we have to keep playing Rooney because he went on a decent run in the FA Cup final??

Mata could produce a moment of magic and is also capable of putting a corner in, controlling a football and passing it to a bloke wearing the same coloured shirt.

Having got a billion goals and a zillion assists last season I am sure Miki could produce a moment of magic whilst also bringing to the table a bit of pace and the ability to beat a man.

Hell, Jesse lingaard has produced more magic in a game and a half at Wembley either side of the summer than Rooney has produced in 3 years.
Agreed.

Maybe Miki will be the one who finally dislodges him when he is back to full fitness. But he'll need to stake a strong claim first.
 

Born2Lose

Full Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2015
Messages
2,596
Even top 4 is under threat as the other teams looks more like a team than United do. This is a big problem for Jose to solve. Give the world a chance to see what Jose is made of.
Yes, but look on the bright side, Rooney might beat Charlton's United record.
 

Jig1234

Full Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2015
Messages
1,351
Location
England, UK
He was finished 4 years ago. When Fergie was ready to bin him. He has been bobbins for years slowly getting worse bit by bit.
 

Handré1990

Full Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2013
Messages
4,832
Location
In hibernation
There's always a first time that any player gets dropped though.

The notion that a player can play as badly as Rooney did yesterday for the next 2.5 years and not get dropped is borderline psychotic.
Just the thought makes me borderline psychotic! :eek:

Edit:
Agreed.

Maybe Miki will be the one who finally dislodges him when he is back to full fitness. But he'll need to stake a strong claim first.
That's part of the problem isn't it? Kagawa, Mata and now Miki. It seems they need to hit the ground running, and deliver world class performances from the first minute to ever have a chance to oust Rooney from the team.

How many games has Mata had to prove himself instead of Rooney? How many games will Miki get? It seems to me the odds are always stacked in favour of Rooney.

Not saying Kagawa would have made it, just that there's always someone rooneying new attacking players chances to gel in their prefered position..
 
Last edited:

Pexbo

Winner of the 'I'm not reading that' medal.
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
69,074
Location
Brizzle
Supports
Big Days
Mark Chapman (United fan) tried raising the point re Rooney on MOTD3, mentioned that there is a discrepancy between what we're saying and what pundits are saying.

Unsurprisingly, neither Sinclair or Murphy would be drawn into stating Rooney should be dropped.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37404076
I really like Chappers. Always comes across very well.
 

Adebesi

Full Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2006
Messages
19,159
Location
Sanctity, like a cat, abhors filth.
Yes, but look on the bright side, Rooney might beat Charlton's United record.
That's the other thing that has occurred to me, as a theory. Maybe the club feels there is a value on Rooney breaking that record. I think Ive said this before, but maybe there is a warehouse somewhere with a million commemorative DVDs, posters, mugs and t shirts, celebrating Rooney's record-breaking achievement, and there is pressure on the manager to get him over the line so all this shit can be sold. Maybe one of our sponsors will pay a bonus when he breaks the record as they are planning a big ad campaign around it.

One way or the other, maybe once he has broken the record things will change. I certainly think there is a reasonable commercial interest for the club in seeing Rooney break the record, but whether it is enough to be a factor is another question.
 

glazed

Eats diamonds to beat thermodynamics
Joined
Sep 30, 2012
Messages
7,915
I don't get this, his salary isn't irrelevant in the sense that it's £200,000+ per week that we could be paying to a player who deserves it and would perform much better than him. It's especially true for a club that has always liked to keep a relatively low wages to turnover ratio.

Like I heard on Football Weekly last year it's

Ozil's wages + Alexis Sanchez wages + £30k = Rooney's wages.
His salary is a given whether he plays every match or warms the bench or just trains with the kids, just like BFS. The only question within the control of Jose (I hope) is whether to play him or not.
 

glazed

Eats diamonds to beat thermodynamics
Joined
Sep 30, 2012
Messages
7,915
No. He's paid like a world class player. He should perform like one
Or what? Drop him if he's still better than the alternative? That would be nuts.

Anyway its academic as he's not better than the alternative.
 

Adebesi

Full Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2006
Messages
19,159
Location
Sanctity, like a cat, abhors filth.
His salary is a given whether he plays every match or warms the bench or just trains with the kids, just like BFS. The only question within the control of Jose (I hope) is whether to play him or not.
Yes. The logic for using his salary as an excuse to play him only stands up if you believe he can play himself into the kind of form that justifies that salary. If you think, we pay him 200k a week, if we keep playing him he will eventually start repaying that outlay, whereas if we bench him we are writing that money off.

That's obviously just one interpretation though. You could also take the view that dropping him would light a fire under him and motivate him to improve.
 

Cassidy

No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
31,735
Or what? Drop him if he's still better than the alternative? That would be nuts.

Anyway its academic as he's not better than the alternative.
Hes not so drop him
 

Adisa

likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt
Joined
Nov 28, 2014
Messages
50,578
Location
Birmingham
I quite like the theory Mourinho is giving him a rope to hang himself. Simply because it makes me feel good. But Mourinho shouldn't need a rope. Look at Pep? He has made quick decisive decisions.
 

SteveJ

all-round nice guy, aka Uncle Joe Kardashian
Scout
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
62,851
I quite like the theory Mourinho is giving him a rope to hang himself. Simply because it makes me feel good. But Mourinho shouldn't need a rope. Look at Pep? He has made quick decisive decisions.
Pep is being praised to the skies for his Hart move but he did it from a position of real strength - City wanted him for ages, so he effectively has carte blanche. Besides, he had a bona fide argument for dispensing with Hart (i.e. Pepe's chosen playing style for goalkeepers). All in all this 'bold move' was a risk-free one for Pep, especially as Joe's new club can do little to no harm to City's prospects of success. José finds himself in a far more difficult situation, at a club where - unlike Pep - he doesn't enjoy universal support amongst the hierarachy.
 

jojose

Full Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2014
Messages
960
Location
W3101
The annoying thing is....LVG and Jose, despite always playing him clearly recognised he is a problem. His position has constantly changed. If somebody is playing well, you leave them alone.

TBH, I have accepted Rooney is finished and did some time ago. What is annoys me most now is Mourinho. I am so disappointed in him.
 

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
61,959
Or what? Drop him if he's still better than the alternative? That would be nuts.

Anyway its academic as he's not better than the alternative.
Sell him and bring someone who justify that top salary. We've got too many players who was able to get away with it for far too much
 

Barca84

Full Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2013
Messages
3,763
Location
NOT BARCELONA
Supports
Doesn't support Barca
The annoying thing is....LVG and Jose, despite always playing him clearly recognised he is a problem. His position has constantly changed. If somebody is playing well, you leave them alone.

TBH, I have accepted Rooney is finished and did some time ago. What is annoys me most now is Mourinho. I am so disappointed in him.
Jose is only in the door.
 

Barca84

Full Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2013
Messages
3,763
Location
NOT BARCELONA
Supports
Doesn't support Barca
I quite like the theory Mourinho is giving him a rope to hang himself. Simply because it makes me feel good. But Mourinho shouldn't need a rope. Look at Pep? He has made quick decisive decisions.
I've said it elsewhere...it's a whole different ball game bringing the curtain down on Rooney's career than getting rid of a not arsed Yaya Toure.
 

Adisa

likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt
Joined
Nov 28, 2014
Messages
50,578
Location
Birmingham
Pep is being praised to the skies for his Hart move but he did it from a position of real strength - City wanted him for ages, so he effectively has carte blanche. Besides, he had a bona fide argument for dispensing with Hart (i.e. Pepe's chosen playing style for goalkeepers). All in all this 'bold move' was a risk-free one for Pep, especially as Joe's new club can do little to no harm to City's prospects of success. José finds himself in a far more difficult situation, at a club where - unlike Pep - he doesn't enjoy universal support amongst the hierarachy.
Very true
 

BringNaniBack

Leaves a bullshit trail behind him
Joined
Oct 26, 2014
Messages
3,530
I quite like the theory Mourinho is giving him a rope to hang himself. Simply because it makes me feel good. But Mourinho shouldn't need a rope. Look at Pep? He has made quick decisive decisions.
Exactly. All this talk that he needs Rooney to show he's not good enough and phase him out slowly is a load of rubbish. Everyone can already see he is not good enough and if someone at the club has a problem with him being dropped now then they always will. Jose needs to drop him now or his own reputation will be forever damaged.
 

Adisa

likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt
Joined
Nov 28, 2014
Messages
50,578
Location
Birmingham
It's not even a divisive issue. It's a topic that is as unanimous as you'll see in a fan base
 

Adisa

likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt
Joined
Nov 28, 2014
Messages
50,578
Location
Birmingham
I've heard a few pundits say man utd fans are knee jerking. This was after his legendary Villa performance.
 

ZDwyr

Full Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2014
Messages
7,318
Feels different this time. The media is definitely against him, I think he'll be dropped.
 

jojose

Full Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2014
Messages
960
Location
W3101
Jose is only in the door.
He'll be soon out of it if he keeps picking him!

Jose has worked in the league for previous 3 seasons and he knew the job was his from xmas. He's witnessed what Rooney has produced.

If he'd been here 3 months, 3 days or 30 years, the decision yesterday to leave him on the pitch was wrong.

By Jose's own admission "he isn't a 6 or an 8, he will never play centre midfield".
 

RexHamilton

Gumshoe for hire
Joined
Feb 13, 2012
Messages
4,439
That's the other thing that has occurred to me, as a theory. Maybe the club feels there is a value on Rooney breaking that record. I think Ive said this before, but maybe there is a warehouse somewhere with a million commemorative DVDs, posters, mugs and t shirts, celebrating Rooney's record-breaking achievement, and there is pressure on the manager to get him over the line so all this shit can be sold. Maybe one of our sponsors will pay a bonus when he breaks the record as they are planning a big ad campaign around it.
Can't imagine any of that would be worth more than the title or even Champions League football.
 

Jacko21

Full Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2016
Messages
4,588
Location
Manchester
I think this situation is on the brink.

We know it. He knows it. Journalists know it. Pundits know it.

And if Mourinho subscribes to the same view, then this should be the week he's dropped for successive games.

I feel nothing for Rooney anymore. It's a sad reality. He can't expect sympathy. Not given the tricks he has pulled over the years.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.