Wow, that must be some good stuff you smoking there buddy. You inhaling it or injecting it?
Rooney is finished
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
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I felt sick watching MOTD. "Play him in midfield". It's ibvious some people don't wish us well.
If he really had a clause like that Im stunned none of Van Gaal's people leaked it. It certainly requires a bit of a stretch of the imagination to see it.
The other option of course is there is a herd mentality thing going on and we should all take what Van Gaal, Mourinho, Hodgeson and Allardyce say about him being the muts nuts at face value. But that seems equally far fetched, or even more so. I do think, as I keep repeating, it can be a bit overdone at times, the Rooney-bashing. But for him to be used in every league game when he is fit, without exception, for such a sustained period, while his form has been patchy (at least) - that does need explaining.
Mirror summed it up:
Bare in mind, this was somebody in the CAM position...
1. He took nine corners/free-kicks - but only created a chance for United with TWO of them.
2. He didn't create a single chance from open play.
3. He didn't play a single through ball.
4. He didn't 'take on' an opponent, so never actually went past a Watford player.
5. He didn't have a shot on target.
6. In fact, he only managed one shot OFF target.
"But wait!", we hear the Wazza fans cry. "He wasn't playing as a striker! You can't judge him purely on his attacking stats!"
Fair enough. Let's look at what he did defensively…
7. He didn't make a single tackle. Not one!
8. He went up for three 'aerial duels' - and lost two of them.
9. In fact, his entire defensive contribution amounted to one interception, one block… and committing one foul.
We can still hear the voices of the Rooney fan club pleading their man's case. "But he passed the ball around, right? He was still spreading the play, right?"
Well, let's look at his passing stats.
11. He played 40 passes, completing 33 of them.
12. 27 of the 33 successful passes he played either went sideways (12) or backwards (15).
13. Which meant he only successfully passed the ball FORWARDS on six occasions. In 90 minutes. That is once every quarter of an hour
Good Job Wayne
Bare in mind, this was somebody in the CAM position...
1. He took nine corners/free-kicks - but only created a chance for United with TWO of them.
2. He didn't create a single chance from open play.
3. He didn't play a single through ball.
4. He didn't 'take on' an opponent, so never actually went past a Watford player.
5. He didn't have a shot on target.
6. In fact, he only managed one shot OFF target.
"But wait!", we hear the Wazza fans cry. "He wasn't playing as a striker! You can't judge him purely on his attacking stats!"
Fair enough. Let's look at what he did defensively…
7. He didn't make a single tackle. Not one!
8. He went up for three 'aerial duels' - and lost two of them.
9. In fact, his entire defensive contribution amounted to one interception, one block… and committing one foul.
We can still hear the voices of the Rooney fan club pleading their man's case. "But he passed the ball around, right? He was still spreading the play, right?"
Well, let's look at his passing stats.
11. He played 40 passes, completing 33 of them.
12. 27 of the 33 successful passes he played either went sideways (12) or backwards (15).
13. Which meant he only successfully passed the ball FORWARDS on six occasions. In 90 minutes. That is once every quarter of an hour
Good Job Wayne
I've been a huge Rooney fan since before he signed for us. I've stuck up for him when he's been very unfairly treated on this board, but it's now becoming increasingly obvious that he is finished at this level.
That's so bad, I can't imagine someone being that bad without actually trying to be.
Those 32 people voting 'No' can now go found a new religion with Rooney as their Messiah.
They are City and Liverpool fans.
So shall we take that as excuse and let him play the way he plays now?
Leader? Ibra
From RAWK. They speak sense as they are real football fans on there, unlike the neanderthals on Bluemoon.
One of the worst players in this league. I genuinely think he'd struggle in a lower league.
And he plays for Man Utd and plays every minute of every game.Oh, and better players get moved out of position to accommodate him. It's so, so beautiful!
The last guy is right though. It's not just him.Rooney hasn't been a top player for a while, but I think the criticism he gets is disproportionate at this point. Man Utd played without him vs Feyenord, a fairly ordinary side, and yet, looked quite poor. He has to be benched, because Man Utd have better players. But some seem to think he is the sole reason behind all problems of Man Utd. Not true at all.
It is funny though, his buddies in the media keep defending him. The likes of Neville brothers, Scholes, when they are asked about Rooney, they do 0 "analysis", they just say "he obviously has to play" and move on
Even he, can't have complaints about being dropped.
No chance. Koeman is building a good side there. MLS is really his only option as I doubt Coleen would want to go to China.
I don't think he is the only reason, but him being in the side is impacting on both the midfield and the forwards, so that is still one big problem.
Yep, Zlatan said Pep is not a man. Yet he comes into the club and the first thing he does is feck off a club legend loved by its fans and England team's top three heroes like it's nothing. Because he wants to play his style and noone is going to hold him back.
Mourinho has disappointed in this regard.
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Crazy to have such a one sided poll, really just hammers home how useless he has been.
Personally I think a team that contains both him and Fellaini cannot compete at the top level.
Personally I think a team that contains both him and Fellaini cannot compete at the top level.
I think it shows the depth of fans' frustration more than anything else. "Done at the required level" might be OTT, if he was used more sparingly and competed for his place he might have a place as a squad player. He is certainly done at the level required to be an automatic starter.
Standard practice during settlement agreements is silence for 6 months
After yesterday's performance I'm really not sure it is OTT. If he can't even impose himself against Watford after being rested for the Europa League, when exactly can we rely on him? We're only a few games into the season too when the schedule is relatively light.
He couldn't even get the basics right.
The difference is that Mourinho has always liked Rooney as a player and obviously hoped to get him playing well and has put him in the team from day 1 - it hasnt worked and I've no doubt Rooney is going to be benched for a while. Pep never rated Hart and got rid of him immediately. Different situations.
I'd argue he is done at the top level in any capacity aswell. What can he really contribute from the bench? He isn't a goalscorer anymore, Not a great passer, Can't take corners and thinks he deserves half an hour on the ball at all times.
Ok, let's have it, how many of those 32 who voted 'No' are:-
1. Rooney fanboys
2. Rival fans.
3. Taking the piss/trolling.
1. Rooney fanboys
2. Rival fans.
3. Taking the piss/trolling.
Such a shame that we still have to discuss this. We've seen it for a very long time, and pretty much everone agrees that he's done and dusted. The fact that he's still starting every single game, and gets to play the full 90 minutes n matter how bad he performs, is beyond me. There has to be a clause in Mourinhos contract to play him. Why else would he play him? I mean, there can't really be any other reason for it? Nobody would start a player with Rooneys form week in week out, based on what he used to be. There's got to be someone forcing his hand.
It's like playing with 10 men. It has to stop.
It's like playing with 10 men. It has to stop.
He's always been streaky. Clearly he is in the midst of an awful period of form. If he was dropped for a while, he might conceivably respond positively and force his way back to contention. Im just saying this isnt as binary as some people are making out, he is either in and undroppable or he has to go to MLS. There is a middle ground where he is just another member of the squad, competing for his place like everyone else, maybe as backup to Ibra. Or maybe that is just a stepping stone to him leaving in Jan or next summer.
Its not only that he plays like a Sunday league footballer, its also the problem of keeping that spot occupied. Shocking touches, shocking lack of concentration, shocking decisions. Oh dear, he really needs to be benched.
The incredible amount of crap football pundits are shouting is shocking.
Not denying you are possibly / probably right. But we dont know how he would respond to being dropped because he never is. The last time I can think of him being dropped for an "important" game where he was 100% fit was when when SAF was here. I might be forgetting something but certainly it is rare. If he is dropped and cant get back into the team without upping his game considerably, maybe he can. If not, fine, we tried.
Fair point, I'm not against him competing for a squad place but I think we need to move away from the thoughts of him being a guaranteed starter (unless he recaptures his form). Also he should be nowhere near midfield, Mourinho said as much in his early press conferences so its weird that he's getting picked there ahead of specialists.
I voted yes but probably not for the same reasons as most I suspect. I don't think Wayne's finished as a player, but I think he can no longer be guaranteed a starting berth here, and that leaves everyone in a difficult spot.
Can any club justify a 300,000 a week squad player? Can Wayne really be useful as a impact player? Something he has never had to do before, so I doubt he would have the right mindset or attitude for that role. He probably believes he is at his peak and has two more years of top flight football in him.
For me the conundrum was how he ended up signing that contract when to all intensive purpose he was probably on his way. SAF retired unexpectedly followed closely by Gill. As much as I hated the Moyes reign he was left in a difficult situation with Rooney. He given the keys to the castle, and then discovers that no player of real renown recognised him as the new Messiah. The English media buy into the "cut from the same cloth" bull and how he's going to bring "best English" left back in the world (fecking Leighton James) and Rooney's heir apparent (Barkley) and that he was going to turn United into the place where top British talent would thrive. I thought it was a joke at the time.
Reality kicks in and both Moist and Ed realise that they have no pulling power other than the Man United name and financial clout. Also (in their eyes) the one asset they have looks as if he's off. On top of that it's made to look like he's going because of the managerial choice. Moyes first hurdle was trying to prove to the world that he was a strong manager who could hold his own in this big new world, and keep hold of Rooney.
We'll never know if Jose really wanted him or it was a bit of a pisstake, but I'm the two fresh-faced newbies panicked. Wayne had them over a barrel and he grabbed the opportunity of carving out one last lucrative contract for himself. They didn't want to appear weak. Who knows what would of happened if they called his bluff? I suspect that Wayne would have said that his heart had always been with United and he would never dream of leaving.
I do feel for him because after growing from boy to man here, I do believe he's written his name into United folk lore. It would be sad if all he has achieved is undermined by his decline in form over the last few years and the growing hostility towards him. I think he simply wants to end his career at United.
If I was Wayne I'd try and get myself a massive MLS contract and join a side that would be built around me and look back at my days with United with fondness.
Please forgive the length. Had to get it out.
Can any club justify a 300,000 a week squad player? Can Wayne really be useful as a impact player? Something he has never had to do before, so I doubt he would have the right mindset or attitude for that role. He probably believes he is at his peak and has two more years of top flight football in him.
For me the conundrum was how he ended up signing that contract when to all intensive purpose he was probably on his way. SAF retired unexpectedly followed closely by Gill. As much as I hated the Moyes reign he was left in a difficult situation with Rooney. He given the keys to the castle, and then discovers that no player of real renown recognised him as the new Messiah. The English media buy into the "cut from the same cloth" bull and how he's going to bring "best English" left back in the world (fecking Leighton James) and Rooney's heir apparent (Barkley) and that he was going to turn United into the place where top British talent would thrive. I thought it was a joke at the time.
Reality kicks in and both Moist and Ed realise that they have no pulling power other than the Man United name and financial clout. Also (in their eyes) the one asset they have looks as if he's off. On top of that it's made to look like he's going because of the managerial choice. Moyes first hurdle was trying to prove to the world that he was a strong manager who could hold his own in this big new world, and keep hold of Rooney.
We'll never know if Jose really wanted him or it was a bit of a pisstake, but I'm the two fresh-faced newbies panicked. Wayne had them over a barrel and he grabbed the opportunity of carving out one last lucrative contract for himself. They didn't want to appear weak. Who knows what would of happened if they called his bluff? I suspect that Wayne would have said that his heart had always been with United and he would never dream of leaving.
I do feel for him because after growing from boy to man here, I do believe he's written his name into United folk lore. It would be sad if all he has achieved is undermined by his decline in form over the last few years and the growing hostility towards him. I think he simply wants to end his career at United.
If I was Wayne I'd try and get myself a massive MLS contract and join a side that would be built around me and look back at my days with United with fondness.
Please forgive the length. Had to get it out.
This is really frustrating.
People talk about his reaction to being dropped but quite frankly, who cares????
Herrera, Miki, Mata, in particular must feel very despondent sat on the bench watching Rooney clumsily stubble and plod his way through another 90 minutes.
Sure, they haven't made themselves undroppable but a fair craic of the whip should be expected.
I'm kind of eternally optimistic about Rooney. Hence I've only just started coming around to the idea his decline really is terminal, at just 30 years old. I like the idea that he gets dropped and comes back leaner, more driven and ready to roll back the years. Unfortunately, there's a very good chance he'll come back fatter and rustier. He's a player who tends to decline in form and fitness quite rapidly when he's not playing every week. Right now it's extremely hard to see how this ends other than very badly for all concerned.
He's not getting dropped for another 2 years though, I'm pretty sure of that. He wasn't dropped during the abysmal run of form under van Gaal who is actually known for dropping stars for younger players when he sees that they no longer perform, Mourinho hasn't dropped him either so far and has barely substituted him until dying minutes of the game, even when he plainly did not work. We gave him the ridiculous 5.5-year contract in 2014 and he's going to fulfil that and as a first team player too.
Was that in the mirror?
That's exactly the set of stats I pulled out. Looks like the thread is having its intended effect.Only for him. For United moving on from Rooney looks increasingly like the next step to getting back among the silverware.
No he isn't.
If he has this 'must play when fit' clause what can we do? Must also remember he's still very marketable and he has 2.5years left.
Do we offer him an extra £25k per week or something to clean the clause out of the contract and be able to phase him out on our terms?
Do we offer him an extra £25k per week or something to clean the clause out of the contract and be able to phase him out on our terms?
He hasn't been fit for years. We could argue that in court.
His marketability will be on the wain now too and, inline with the sort of performance we've just seen, very much on the downturn. He was embarrasingly inept yesterday. You can't market ineptness.
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