I thought I read here that Ireland were well below par v NZ and that NZ played out of their skins?
Rugby Union 21/22/23 Discussion | RWC time!
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if ireland were better three years ago, they’d have got a better draw. the key is to not be shit for large periods of time.
If we’d subbed the passing statue in the last 20 mins we’d be playing tomorrow night
Leaving the fact that I'm pretty certain that noone said "well below par", what would that change about barely losing one of the greatest games of all time?
But they lost.
Look, my perspective is that Ireland came in as world number one, and this was widely considered the finest Irish team of all time. Yet it still went out in the quarters. That’s underperformed. And to be honest, if you don’t think your best team of all time underperformed going out in the quarters, then that’s not a very optimistic take for ever doing any better
I don’t disagree but England look unfit in the Argentina game, at the end they couldn’t get rid of the ball fast enough. They are not exactly quality, but they never lack fitness.
Saying that England overperformed only makes sense if you think independent of any context. In context, they did exactly what would've been expected.
Exactly, if the draw had gone how everyone claims it should then they’d have been beaten in the semi if things remained the same and been 3/4 overall. Which is an underachievement for the 1 ranked team.
Quite a few are on their last legs in that England squad, and then you’ve got some who are just very average. As a Bath fan, it amazes me that Will Stuart gets starts for England. The likes of Genge and Sinckler haven’t seemed to kick on from where I thought they would be four years ago.
Not really. If you actually look at context and see how this team had played over the last 1 year with a coaching change months before the World Cup and the captain banned for the start most England fans expected a complete disaster. It’s easy to look back in hindsight and say they beat who they should have beat but sport doesn’t work like that.
I was worried that this World Cup had the potential to be a complete embarrassment for England and I am glad that they have managed to not only avoid that but actually even ran Springboks close
That’s not the way knock out competitions in sport works. You’re implying that Manchester City will underachieve this year if they don’t win the quadruple because they’re the number one ranked team in all four competitions. Which is obviously ridiculous.
Ireland should have been good enough to get to the last four. They played well enough to get there too. Beating one of the finalists and running the other one extremely close. Only the insane draw stopped Ireland and France cruising into the semis. From there every tournament winner needs a bit of good luck with injuries, referee decisions, the bounce of the ball and so on if they’re going to beat the very best teams in the competition. Putting Ireland to one side, I thought France played the better rugby against SA and we now know they lost because of a penalty that shouldn’t have been given as a penalty. Individual matches in team sports aren’t always won by the best team. If they were it would be incredibly boring and we’d all be fecking loaded from all the money we won down the bookies!
It would say they underperformed
It’ll be interesting to see where England go now. I’m expecting bugger all from SN2024 because it’s only just round the corner, but you’d have to say by 2025 we’d want to see the next wave of players and idea bedded in.
I don’t think the retirees are necessarily a big issue and most of these guys are on the wane and have given their all. The bigger problem is the overseas players. Willis, Marchant, Arrundell are all in or approaching their prime and We’ll have a problem if we can’t use them for the next iteration of the national team
If you judge sporting performances by the scores on Teletext, maybe.
Everyone who watched the tournament (and has a clue about rugby) knows which teams performed well and which didn’t. Having said I don’t think England overachieved I do think their performance against South Africa was better than most people expected this team, under this manager, was capable of. So that arguably is an overachievement. The result was exactly as expected but the performance wasn’t. The rest of their performances were about what you’d expect. Running up a score against minnows, making slightly heavy weather of winning against the mid tier teams.
In terms of performance, Ireland and France clearly played some of the best rugby in the tournament by performing about as well as they were expected to. Which is extremely well. They both lost tight games against the two finalists. Maybe they should have won both those games to have considered to have met expectations but that seems harsh and shows also a lack of understanding about the way sport works, where very small margins can decide matches between very good teams. IMHO.
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Would this not say the Ireland underperformed then?
Pogue (and others) don't do it to yourself, it's not worth it.
Aaaaaanway… moving on… why don’t scrumhalf’s do dive passes any more? Mentioned that to my young lad and he said nobody does it in schoolboy rugby. It’s not a thing. When (and why) did it die out?!
I don’t think they did. The more I think about it the more I reckon Ireland’s poor performance was overstated. We were poor in the first 15 minutes or so but pretty dominant after that. Against a very good team, playing out of their skins. Which is a level of performance that would have won that game, more often than not. Which brings me back to what I keep banging on about. The fine margins when two good teams play each other and that the better team on the day doesn’t always win in a once off fixture. Something any United fan who watched the ‘99 CL final knows very well.
Ruck speed. With the emphasis on ruck speed and quick ball being so high for most teams it’s a hard enough job for the 9 to be at the next ruck in time to make the next pass as it is. If he’s having to get up off the deck it’s even harder
Cheika wasn't happy with the officiating last night. Does he have a case?
He should be pleased as feck with them not bothering to call that first try back for a very obvious forward pass
Or the forearm smash on Farrell!He should be pleased as feck with them not bothering to call that first try back for a very obvious forward pass
Ah. Ok. Makes sense.
Yeah, definitely agree with England and Wales take. I never expected Wales to get out of the group, to be honest. And they really should have beaten Argentina. Thought England were great against SA and they should've made the final
Nah it was fair enough overall. Oh and as @T00lsh3d said that was never a try
I thought the ref was very good. Especially with how he ref’d the scrum. Preferring resets over fussy penalties. How it should be.
Best ref in the tournament by far. Shame he hasn't got the final.
If you read this, the All Blacks have the World Cup in the bag.
Crazy bias
I got quite far before realising it's a NZ site. Even so, crazy.predictions for the final then? i’m quite conflicted. in general, i find south africans annoying and they’re unable to join in the joshing and bashing in the correct way, yet the south africans on here are actually decent. new zealand seem to peaking at the right time and have had two weeks off. they’ll also want to avenge the mauling they got a twickenham in the warm up.
south africa got a wake up call last week and its a major chance of history for them. hoping for extra time and a cracking game, but think new zealand will pinch it.
south africa got a wake up call last week and its a major chance of history for them. hoping for extra time and a cracking game, but think new zealand will pinch it.
Now you mention it our scrum halfs at school were taught to pretty much exclusively use the diving pass when taking the ball from the back of the scrum, I’d completely forgot until you mentioned it. Don’t recall the last time I’d seen one.
I hope New Zealand wipe the floor with them. Not going to happen of course, but I’ve always had a soft spot for the All Blacks. It’ll be interesting to see if the England game took anything out of South Africa, they could be knackered here.
I'd prefer South Africa to win but I think New Zealand will.
I also think NZ are likely. A lot is being made of the 7-1 split as a tactic, but I'm starting to think a lot of the forwards are exhausted, and the 7-1 is almost a necessity at this stage.
The one thing I will say though is if Kolisi lifts the cup again, he will go down as one of the GOATs - probably the greatest springbok of all time. Although there have been better players, his whole history and being the first black captain of what has historically been seen as Apartheid's sport team is the stuff of dreams.
They’d have still been crap and had a crap tournament even if they’d have turned the boks over
Anyone else scour @rimaldo’s serious posts hoping a capital letter has slipped in unawares
I reckon it's because the balls they hve used for some years now weigh half as much as the ones we used at school and the rugby club back in the 60's and 70's when Gareth Edwards was the best exponent of the dive pass and the reverse pass. England are a mirror of United, look clueless at times but somehow manage to grind out a result. It was criminal that Arundell didn't get a decent pass and chance to run. The match last night reminded me of my school day rugby in the 60's (1960's
) when it was a ten man game. Win the ball pass it to the stand off who wellied it, chase it, get possession and welly it again. Underhill was a beast last night and should have played against the Boks imho. We are not the third best team in the world for sure. Should be an interesting six nations. All Blacks will win it.No.
Light the beacons, a fecking capital letter!!
THE FINAL: New Zealand vs South Africa
Come on the Boks! @SirAnderson @Traub
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