Everything that follows is purely conjecture.
Avoid reading this unless you have 5 minutes of your life you don't mind not getting back. The post below Will likely offend and outrage people who;
1) Are Totally convinced that LVG is shit;
2) are convinced LVG is the sole problem the club is facing;
3) believe fully that progress must be linear;
4) believe life and relationships work in straightforward fashions;
5) cannot entertain alternative ideas that could be outlandish;
6) think that our players are above reproach;
7) believe that we as Man United have an entitlement to trophies.
So maybe you can stop reading. Judging by anecdotal reading of the forum, 20% of might find this interesting and worth having a discussion about, 60% will have found this boring and stretched but perhaps have some truth, and 20% will be mighty upset and angry. If those odds don't work for you, stop reading and go to the LVG Out thread.
I used to admire Ryan Giggs but now I only look fondly at the player, not the man after retirement from the playing field.
I will always remember when this young boy broke into the team with his floppy curly hair with the ball seemingly glued to his feet and even the wind was unable to catch him. As a Man Utd fan for nearly three decades, Giggs had always been a fixture and a symbol of what I had thought Manchester United was about: youthful exuberance, pace, attacking prowess and loyalty. I admired the way he protected his body through yoga and adapted his skills to be functional in other positions in the squad. To me it was as if he loved the game and the club so much that he wanted to go on forever and he wanted to extract every drop of value he could bring to the club. Because of that, he was a Legend and still is. But perhaps he is thinking after decades in contribution, he should be receiving his rightful due with arguably the biggest managerial job in England.
Sometime over the last several years the media revealed, in my personal opinion only, an extremely reprehensible side of Mr Giggs: that he had been sleeping with his brother's wife for eight years amongst his other affairs.
Eight years. His brother's wife.
Now, I suppose that there are many that may take a casual view over the occasional extra-marital one-night stands or have some level of nonchalance about extended extra-marital affairs, but really. Your own brother's wife? Not once in a drunken party but a knowing, purposeful, consistent, habitual sexual relationship with your brother's wife. Picture the same happening to you.
And of course Giggs continued to keep up his clean cut family image, parading his children at matches and events. We often have to take the media with a large dollop of salt, but I last read that our Legend Giggs did not offer any apology till now but mentions "it was just sex". Of course it takes two to tango, but let's see here so our beloved Ryan simply treated his Sister-in-law as some sex object (and probably his own brother as some fool). So now the brother has divorced the wife. Family dinners must be fun. Well done, Ryan. You have screwed not just the women must the lives of many around you.
This speaks volumes about Gigg's character. Forget that he has never been given a real managerial job. Forget that he needs to earn his managerial stripes at a smaller club before managing Manchester United. Despite knowing that the odds of Gigg's jumping straight in as manager of Man Utd and succeeding are infinitesimal, silly romanticism and sentimentality may see it worth taking that gamble on Ryan Giggs.
But not now, and not ever I hope. No one's perfect, of course. Everyone has some flaws and dark sides but Gigg's deceit reveal the depth of his character. Can it be that he is only an immoral, lying, self-gratifying and hypocritical human being in his personal life but an otherwise exemplary human being in professional football? Research, academia and history suggest extremely unlikely.
These two and a half years of supposed failure of Man Utd has several common factors, and one of these factors - a large one, has been the presence of Ryan Giggs.
Ryan Giggs is such a fixture and legend at Old Trafford that I have no doubt he holds the awe of many and has considerable influence over the senior players, youth and staff at the club.
During Moyes' time, it was reported that Giggs made several veiled remarks about Moyes' methods. The media has never criticised Giggs despite him being the assistant manager.
There appear to have been leaks even today, after several of the old guard like Rio and Vidic have left. We have only the senior suspects in Rooney, Carrick and Giggs. The class of 92 and ex-players have been taking snipes at United for several months and interestingly Giggs has been strangely dissociated from the troubles.
It is political now. Giggs is in one of the best positons anyone can hope to have. He has got the resentful fans on his side. His pals in the media are laying into LVG and keeping him absolved of any fault. In additional to being a foreign manager whom the British media loves to criticise, LVG has a language and cultural barrier that makes him easily misunderstood and often lets him dig deeper holes. I have never heard Giggs speak up and defend the current regime. It is clear he wants to be detached from it.
LVG has frequently said Giggs will be the next manager. I cannot imagine that he will ignore Giggs input. We also see during matches that LVG speaks frequently to Giggs - how can Giggs not have a part to play in the team's current malaise? It is always easy to target one person rather than a committee and unfortunately LVG makes himself an easy target at times. What I think is that Giggs is using various channels such as discontent in senior players and using his pals as media mouth pieces to increased the target on LVG's back.
All for his self-serving aim to be the next manager of Manchester United. His character tells us he is capable of selfish, underhanded and hypocritical acts.
You could argue the board may not be stupid enough to give the job to an inexperienced Giggs, but it comes down to influence and popular opinion. Just like the club management may be swayed but media articles to dismiss a manager they could be pressured to appoint one, especially if it is a figure of such status as Ryan Giggs combined with fan's romanticism and particularly if no one is available (Pep to City, Ancelotti to Bayern, Mourinho... Really?... Rodgers?). Giggs will be hard to get rid of.
It's all conjecture and very likely bullshit but I see in Ryan Giggs one of the main origins of our current club's troubles. He holds too much influence for LVG to do his job properly. I think there is already dissension already in the managerial team and this instability is creating an unstable working environment for the players which causes them to be unable to express themselves to their full potential. Anyone who has worked for some time before will understand how a politically-charged and toxic work environment will be detrimental to work performance. Let's not forget that the players are employees of a Football club.
As I have said before, I don't think the team is doing well enough but I see progress and I am willing for LVG to see out this season or even his contract. But I am beginning to think that will not be likely, not because of LVG but because of Giggs. His overt display at the touchline during the Norwich Match convinced me of his ploy.
He has picked the current weakest point of his boss, LVG and used it to display a contrast (pacing the touchline when LVG never did) to the current regime and detaching himself from it. You may ask, why this match? Why not other matches? It is calculated.
If the board thinks LVG needs to go, then so be it. But I think if we want to change and start steering United on the right course again, we need to get rid of not only LVG but also Giggs. I am of the opinion that the next manager will face similar problems if Giggs remains the assistant.
The next manager will need to achieve success very quickly, not because fans are impatient but also because Giggs will be lurking to ignite the fuels of discontent. I hope Swansea makes Giggs an offer he can't refuse so we can start to see the influence of the old guard finally gone.
Avoid reading this unless you have 5 minutes of your life you don't mind not getting back. The post below Will likely offend and outrage people who;
1) Are Totally convinced that LVG is shit;
2) are convinced LVG is the sole problem the club is facing;
3) believe fully that progress must be linear;
4) believe life and relationships work in straightforward fashions;
5) cannot entertain alternative ideas that could be outlandish;
6) think that our players are above reproach;
7) believe that we as Man United have an entitlement to trophies.
So maybe you can stop reading. Judging by anecdotal reading of the forum, 20% of might find this interesting and worth having a discussion about, 60% will have found this boring and stretched but perhaps have some truth, and 20% will be mighty upset and angry. If those odds don't work for you, stop reading and go to the LVG Out thread.
I used to admire Ryan Giggs but now I only look fondly at the player, not the man after retirement from the playing field.
I will always remember when this young boy broke into the team with his floppy curly hair with the ball seemingly glued to his feet and even the wind was unable to catch him. As a Man Utd fan for nearly three decades, Giggs had always been a fixture and a symbol of what I had thought Manchester United was about: youthful exuberance, pace, attacking prowess and loyalty. I admired the way he protected his body through yoga and adapted his skills to be functional in other positions in the squad. To me it was as if he loved the game and the club so much that he wanted to go on forever and he wanted to extract every drop of value he could bring to the club. Because of that, he was a Legend and still is. But perhaps he is thinking after decades in contribution, he should be receiving his rightful due with arguably the biggest managerial job in England.
Sometime over the last several years the media revealed, in my personal opinion only, an extremely reprehensible side of Mr Giggs: that he had been sleeping with his brother's wife for eight years amongst his other affairs.
Eight years. His brother's wife.
Now, I suppose that there are many that may take a casual view over the occasional extra-marital one-night stands or have some level of nonchalance about extended extra-marital affairs, but really. Your own brother's wife? Not once in a drunken party but a knowing, purposeful, consistent, habitual sexual relationship with your brother's wife. Picture the same happening to you.
And of course Giggs continued to keep up his clean cut family image, parading his children at matches and events. We often have to take the media with a large dollop of salt, but I last read that our Legend Giggs did not offer any apology till now but mentions "it was just sex". Of course it takes two to tango, but let's see here so our beloved Ryan simply treated his Sister-in-law as some sex object (and probably his own brother as some fool). So now the brother has divorced the wife. Family dinners must be fun. Well done, Ryan. You have screwed not just the women must the lives of many around you.
This speaks volumes about Gigg's character. Forget that he has never been given a real managerial job. Forget that he needs to earn his managerial stripes at a smaller club before managing Manchester United. Despite knowing that the odds of Gigg's jumping straight in as manager of Man Utd and succeeding are infinitesimal, silly romanticism and sentimentality may see it worth taking that gamble on Ryan Giggs.
But not now, and not ever I hope. No one's perfect, of course. Everyone has some flaws and dark sides but Gigg's deceit reveal the depth of his character. Can it be that he is only an immoral, lying, self-gratifying and hypocritical human being in his personal life but an otherwise exemplary human being in professional football? Research, academia and history suggest extremely unlikely.
These two and a half years of supposed failure of Man Utd has several common factors, and one of these factors - a large one, has been the presence of Ryan Giggs.
Ryan Giggs is such a fixture and legend at Old Trafford that I have no doubt he holds the awe of many and has considerable influence over the senior players, youth and staff at the club.
During Moyes' time, it was reported that Giggs made several veiled remarks about Moyes' methods. The media has never criticised Giggs despite him being the assistant manager.
There appear to have been leaks even today, after several of the old guard like Rio and Vidic have left. We have only the senior suspects in Rooney, Carrick and Giggs. The class of 92 and ex-players have been taking snipes at United for several months and interestingly Giggs has been strangely dissociated from the troubles.
It is political now. Giggs is in one of the best positons anyone can hope to have. He has got the resentful fans on his side. His pals in the media are laying into LVG and keeping him absolved of any fault. In additional to being a foreign manager whom the British media loves to criticise, LVG has a language and cultural barrier that makes him easily misunderstood and often lets him dig deeper holes. I have never heard Giggs speak up and defend the current regime. It is clear he wants to be detached from it.
LVG has frequently said Giggs will be the next manager. I cannot imagine that he will ignore Giggs input. We also see during matches that LVG speaks frequently to Giggs - how can Giggs not have a part to play in the team's current malaise? It is always easy to target one person rather than a committee and unfortunately LVG makes himself an easy target at times. What I think is that Giggs is using various channels such as discontent in senior players and using his pals as media mouth pieces to increased the target on LVG's back.
All for his self-serving aim to be the next manager of Manchester United. His character tells us he is capable of selfish, underhanded and hypocritical acts.
You could argue the board may not be stupid enough to give the job to an inexperienced Giggs, but it comes down to influence and popular opinion. Just like the club management may be swayed but media articles to dismiss a manager they could be pressured to appoint one, especially if it is a figure of such status as Ryan Giggs combined with fan's romanticism and particularly if no one is available (Pep to City, Ancelotti to Bayern, Mourinho... Really?... Rodgers?). Giggs will be hard to get rid of.
It's all conjecture and very likely bullshit but I see in Ryan Giggs one of the main origins of our current club's troubles. He holds too much influence for LVG to do his job properly. I think there is already dissension already in the managerial team and this instability is creating an unstable working environment for the players which causes them to be unable to express themselves to their full potential. Anyone who has worked for some time before will understand how a politically-charged and toxic work environment will be detrimental to work performance. Let's not forget that the players are employees of a Football club.
As I have said before, I don't think the team is doing well enough but I see progress and I am willing for LVG to see out this season or even his contract. But I am beginning to think that will not be likely, not because of LVG but because of Giggs. His overt display at the touchline during the Norwich Match convinced me of his ploy.
He has picked the current weakest point of his boss, LVG and used it to display a contrast (pacing the touchline when LVG never did) to the current regime and detaching himself from it. You may ask, why this match? Why not other matches? It is calculated.
If the board thinks LVG needs to go, then so be it. But I think if we want to change and start steering United on the right course again, we need to get rid of not only LVG but also Giggs. I am of the opinion that the next manager will face similar problems if Giggs remains the assistant.
The next manager will need to achieve success very quickly, not because fans are impatient but also because Giggs will be lurking to ignite the fuels of discontent. I hope Swansea makes Giggs an offer he can't refuse so we can start to see the influence of the old guard finally gone.
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