Sadio Mane comments on 'diving'

InLevyITrust

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Completely agree. The only issue, though, is if a player gets a reputation for diving and is thus less likely to get a penalty (legit or not) later.
Yeah the incident with Zaha the other weak was shocking refereeing.
 

Sandikan

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He's arguably the biggest diver in the Premier league. It's well known.

But if he's really made those comments, even the dumbest refs will be looking out for it.
 

blue blue

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When is a dive a dive?

CHO was booked for diving against Burnley recently and the replay showed quite bit of detail. He was approaching goal, inside the penalty area, with the ball, when there was a hand in his back and a leg out directly in front of his left leg. Just as contact begun the leg was pulled away but the hand was still in his back when he went down. Was he pushed or did he dive? Its subjective.

CHO is just coming back from a serious injury and in the heat of the moment it is fully understandable that he might want to avoid a serious injury if somebody is pushing him and it looks like somebody else is going to trip him. It wasn't like he was trying to get contact. If anything he pulled out trying to avoid injury because of the hand in his back. On that occasion I thought the booking was very harsh and the TV replays were only looking for the contact on the leg. The ref saw him pull his leg out of the way and decided it was a dive when in fact he was trying to avoid contact on the way down from the push.

There. Completely innocent.
 

GenZRed

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That's all well and good but if the other team wins by some sort of deceit or foul play your honourable take on the game won't mean shit I am afraid.
Unfortunately you are right.

It is when I read threads like this that I feel like giving up on football.
 

InLevyITrust

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Unfortunately you are right.

It is when I read threads like this that I feel like giving up on football.
Why though? Nothing has changed, the game was never played "like gentlemen" people has some sort of mystical thought that at some point the game was "pure". Maybe diving wasn't part of it but going in hard and on some occasions cutting the opposition in 2 was, shirt pulling was rife and shoulder charges were just part of the game and elbows in the face were to be expected.
 

GenZRed

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Why though? Nothing has changed, the game was never played "like gentlemen" people has some sort of mystical thought that at some point the game was "pure". Maybe diving wasn't part of it but going in hard and on some occasions cutting the opposition in 2 was, shirt pulling was rife and shoulder charges were just part of the game and elbows in the face were to be expected.
I just feels like diving and 'tactical fouls' are so widespread. That in conjunction with the way so many people talk about 'the spirit of the game', which now seems so pretentious it is insane.

What really gets to me is the way so many fans try justifying this sort of behavior yet throw a hissy fit when it happens to them. Hence my attitude to diving which you initially responded to.

As for shirt pulling and shoulder charges in my opinion those aren't as dishonorable as diving. With the first two, you sort of are competing/battling with another player yet when you are diving, you are just behaving like a wuss. As I have said before, none are good, but diving just irks me like nothing else.
 

BrownRecluse

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This is the referee’s fault. It starts and ends with them. They never give a penalty unless the player goes to ground, which results in a huge amount of missed calls which should be penalties never being given (Our own Smalling for example, could have given away a penalty per game on corners alone over the years). There’s no excuse for referees to not do their job properly now that they have VAR. The only way diving will stop is if calls are made without the player having to look like they’re dead for the referee to think ‘Okay maybe this was a foul’.

For what it’s worth, ‘tactical fouls’ are cheating as well, and I find those much more reprehensible. “Taking one for the team” :rolleyes:
Amazing post, completely sums it up for me.

I kind of get what Mane is getting at, but his lack of knowledge of the English language is making the statement awkward and letting him down.
 

diarm

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Defenders cheating is celebrated while attackers doing so is reviled. This despite the fact that diving is far more common simply because defenders cheating goes unpunished.

I watch football to see good attacking play and goals, not to watch some brick shithouse of a CB toe standing, obstructing, shirt pulling and fouling good players out of the game.

Start refereeing defenders properly and we'll see far less diving.
 

Abizzz

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I don't mind people diving as long as they are caught most of the time. Few things quite as pleasing as seeing someone you don't like getting a yellow card for falling over.

Extra points if it's their 2nd yellow of the game.
 
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troylocker

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Dives and faking injuries are designed to not only get an advantage, but also punish an innocent opponent with cards. That makes it different from shirt-holding and other dirty tricks you can do, that gives an advantage. One could also discuss whether the advantage you get from using foul tricks inside the box is as big as winning a penalty. The punishment for being caught is also bigger for the one using foul trick. Both is cheating, but I think diving and ,even worse, faking injuries is so much worse. It cannot be defended, this is not what our kids idols should be doing. When I see 12 year olds rolling around like Neymar on the pitch I get so sad. I would rather forfeit the points than win by a dive-penalty.
 

shamans

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If a player doesnt dive sometimes they dont get justified fouls. That is the problem

Why should one player get a foul over another if the foul is the same -- because they are weaker and fell over?

I think exaggerating should be allowed. Diving not.
 

christinaa

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Dives and faking injuries are designed to not only get an advantage, but also punish an innocent opponent with cards. That makes it different from shirt-holding and other dirty tricks you can do, that gives an advantage. One could also discuss whether the advantage you get from using foul tricks inside the box is as big as winning a penalty. The punishment for being caught is also bigger for the one using foul trick. Both is cheating, but I think diving and ,even worse, faking injuries is so much worse. It cannot be defended, this is not what our kids idols should be doing. When I see 12 year olds rolling around like Neymar on the pitch I get so sad. I would rather forfeit the points than win by a dive-penalty.
This !
 

adexkola

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Do whatever you have to do. Juice up, take out an opponent's cruciate. Do what you have to do. No one remembers losers because they are wiped from Wikipedia and YouTube. Only winners matter. Ever! sniff
 

Liver_bird

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I just read one of the articles quoting him and he was joking. Put your pitch forks down. Context is king!

"But Mane laughed off the comments when pressed ahead of Sunday's clash, insisting he will not change the way he plays.

“If it could be a penalty for sure I will ‘dive’ again,” he joked. “If the dive will give me a penalty then I will do it to get it back. Why not?"

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/sadio-mane-hits-back-pep-20827907
Have you never read OP posts before :D:lol:
 

amolbhatia50k

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Is this true what he supposedly said? :

''If it could be a penalty for sure i will 'dive' again.
If the 'dive' will give me a penalty then i will do it! Why not?
But what Jurgen said is correct. I do not dive.''
Prick.
 

duffer

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Have you never read OP posts before :D:lol:
Oh god, yeah! Not the most welcoming to us "oppo" posters. I'm pretty sure they put me on ignore a while ago because my posts in a matchday thread was too annoying (I don't blame them, if they don't want to hear from oppo fans then fair enough).
 

amolbhatia50k

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If a player doesnt dive sometimes they dont get justified fouls. That is the problem

Why should one player get a foul over another if the foul is the same -- because they are weaker and fell over?

I think exaggerating should be allowed. Diving not.
Defenders also put in solid tackles/physicality which gets wrongly called as fouls. It's not an excuse for being a cheat.
 

duffer

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Defenders also put in solid tackles/physicality which gets wrongly called as fouls. It's not an excuse for being a cheat.
It's 100% cheating, I agree.

I'm not sure why we all (including me to be honest) deem this type of cheating to be so much worse than all the other snidey things players do.
 

BlueHaze

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It's 100% cheating, I agree.

I'm not sure why we all (including me to be honest) deem this type of cheating to be so much worse than all the other snidey things players do.
Entire game is evolved around cheating these days. Even VAR is cheating. People flying around like swans if someone merely touches their shoulder and the sad thing is it works. Gone are the days where there was still dignity in the game.
 

duffer

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I understand the 1st part. Its not what fans want to hear, but it's what we already know players will do.

But the 3rd line make no sense.
He was joking and said the first two lines as a sarcastic reply to Peps accusations of him being a diver. Looks strange in print though.

Q "Are you a diver Sadio?"

A "oh yeah, I love diving and will do it all the time. Oh course I don't dive".
 

amolbhatia50k

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No insulting other posters please.
Sorry, I got carried away. She's not that bad.

So was Ole's tackle against Newcastle's Rob Lee through on goal. Or, any number of the hundreds of "tactical" fouls made every single PL round. United vs Reyes was blatant, and violent.

Football is rife with cheating, always has been. However, while kicking people around with no intention of making a fair challenge is generally tolerated, or even celebrated, faking getting kicked is seen as a huge crime.

The issue with diving can't be that it's cheating, because not all cheating is treated equally. It also can't be because of the consequences, because a cynical foul can gain you just a big advantage as a dive can. In my opinion it's mostly just culture, especially UK culture. Violence is macho, it's what hard men do. Diving is soft.
Okay. I guess we can fix games too then. After all, cheatings been around in one form or another. Let's be winners etc etc
 

TheOx

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For me, worst than diving is making a meal out of a penalty. It makes you look pretty silly, and you fast lose credibility. And then you'll be a target and get yellow cards every time.

If you think diving is part of the game, ok. But at least be good at diving!
 

Classical Mechanic

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That he's a cheat and a stupid one at that in saying what he said.
Yes that he's a cheat.
They all do it, including United players.

Do whatever you have to do. Juice up, take out an opponent's cruciate. Do what you have to do. No one remembers losers because they are wiped from Wikipedia and YouTube. Only winners matter. Ever! sniff
That's some real apple pie starry stripe ideology right there.
 

amolbhatia50k

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They all do it, including United players.
Scholes didn't do it. Messi doesn't do it.

The odd stray incident - many players do. And that doesn't make it right either.

Proper regular divers are rarer. Both stray incidents and regular cheats should be called out.

That's some real apple pie starry stripe ideology right there.
The feck is that?
 

Lynty

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''If it could be a penalty for sure i will 'dive' again.
If the 'dive' will give me a penalty then i will do it! Why not?
But what Jurgen said is correct. I do not dive.''

Translation

"If I receive contact in the box that could be deemed a penalty, I will go to ground.
If going to ground will give me a penalty then I will do it! Why not?
But what Jurgen said is correct. I do not simulate fouls."

Think that's fair.
 
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Soph

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Okay. I guess we can fix games too then. After all, cheatings been around in one form or another. Let's be winners etc etc
I'm very confused by you quoting me, because I of course said nothing of the sort. What I replied to was someone saying that diving is obviously wrong because it is cheating. My point being that since some forms of cheating are accepted, it follows that something being cheating is not on its own enough to make it wrong.

The reason diving is wrong, then, if it is, will have to be that it is a specific form of cheating that is wrong, as opposed to specific forms of cheating that aren't wrong. Some forms of cheating are wrong, some are not, so I'm saying the exact opposite of what you think I'm saying. If I'm being unclear then please let me know where the confusion is so I can try to fix it, because from where I'm sitting its like you didn't read what I wrote at all.
 

The Original

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He says he will dive again, and will dive always to get a penalty. And he finishes it with "I do not dive".
What you have here are the words of a man who does not speak English fluently. What he means to say is he will go down if the opportunity to earn a penalty presents itself but he will not go down without contact.
 

krautrøck

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Any solid statistics on who dives how much or are we all going by subjective feeling here? Because if we do I find the notion that Messi doesn't dive utterly laughable.
 

KirkDuyt

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''If it could be a penalty for sure i will 'dive' again.
If the 'dive' will give me a penalty then i will do it! Why not?
But what Jurgen said is correct. I do not dive.''

Translation

"If I receive contact in the box that could be deemed a penalty, I will go to ground.
If going to ground will give me a penalty then I will do it! Why not?
But what Jurgen said is correct. I do not simulate fouls."

Think that's fair.
This is what 99% of football players, pro or amateur, do. Well, apart from the "I do not dive", Yeah you do, silly goose.
 

Spaghetti

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People talking as though diving is something modern brought in by foreign players. It’s always happened, we just see more angles of replays now.

In terms of cheating, is it the same level as claiming a handball in the box when you know it wasn’t? Or a corner when you know it shouldn’t be?
 

Lynty

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People talking as though diving is something modern brought in by foreign players. It’s always happened, we just see more angles of replays now.

In terms of cheating, is it the same level as claiming a handball in the box when you know it wasn’t? Or a corner when you know it shouldn’t be?
- Time wasting
- feigning injury
- diving under zero contact
- calling for red cards
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- somewhere far down below
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- claiming handball
- claiming corners
- cynical fouls