Sadio Mane comments on 'diving'

Le Red

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There is a clear difference in which is worse between shirt-tugging and diving. That is like comparing diving to walking to take a corner in order to run the clock down. None are sporting, but one is much worse.
Both are despicable in my opinion. I don't understand why some people think pulling shirts is okay, or think of it as a minor infraction.
 

Le Red

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Refs encourage diving by only giving fouls when players go to ground.
Hear hear

My interpretation of the quote goes somewhere along the line of "if I have to go to the ground after being fouled, I will. I don't simulate fouls though".
Otherwise he would just be saying "I'm a massive cnut", which, let's agree, no one really does.
 

MackRobinson

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I love the completely arbitrary levels of cheating. According to this thread, lying about a corner or fouling a player when the ref isn't looking is fine, but embellishing contact is way worse.

Fair-ish play :lol:
 

adexkola

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Some in this thread are just being deliberately obtuse. This is what you get when you accept these cheats. Ronaldo was a diver at United and I'm glad it was not accepted and called out. If anything it probably made him improve his behaviour. That's the positive outcome we should want rather than brushing it under the carpet.
Definitely.

If you're so concerned about shirt pulling, go make a thread about how it's ruining the game.
 

shamans

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Its weird how the better players are being called divers, might have something to do with their brilliant ability to draw a foul and shift the ball that second quicker before the defender gets there.

Same way as how defenders shielding the ball go down and get a cheap freekick. But that is said to be "being clever" or using his "vast experience"
That's what I'm saying. Of course there is an element of unfair play but there's a reason why skillful players are often labelled as "divers". @amolbhatia50k , your view on this is too simplistic.
 

MackRobinson

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Its weird how the better players are being called divers, might have something to do with their brilliant ability to draw a foul and shift the ball that second quicker before the defender gets there.

Same way as how defenders shielding the ball go down and get a cheap freekick. But that is said to be "being clever" or using his "vast experience"
Damn good comparison.
 

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I love the completely arbitrary levels of cheating. According to this thread, lying about a corner or fouling a player when the ref isn't looking is fine, but embellishing contact is way worse.

Fair-ish play :lol:
I love the whole we are against diving, it should be unacceptable. The player score the penalty. We celebrate and then say oh that’s bad. It’s unacceptable, but let’s keep moving on the damage has already happened now. Anything in life where the reward is far greater than the risk most human beings will do it. Diving for penalty is great reward for small risk
 

adexkola

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I love the whole we are against diving, it should be unacceptable. The player score the penalty. We celebrate and then say oh that’s bad. It’s unacceptable, but let’s keep moving on the damage has already happened now. Anything in life where the reward is far greater than the risk most human beings will do it. Diving for penalty is great reward for small risk
If you like diving then just say it. Stop with the rubbish whataboutism analogies and projections onto other fans. You don't know how I feel when a player on a team I support dives for a penalty. And it's actually on the record that Ronaldo while here, took a lot of flack from United fans for diving.
 

DanishMike

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In my opinion there is way to many excuses for diving.

It is true that refereres dont blow the whistle if you dont go down, and way to often is the defender allowed to almost pull of the attackers shirt. Those are fouls. But in those cases the contact is often clear and a hindrance for the player fouled.

But i dont se how that justifices players throwing themselvses to the ground because of af minimal contact. Often it is clear that the contact doesent make the player fall, often he just throw himself to the ground because he could feel somebody touch him. In my head, not being given clear and obvious penalty because you stay on your feet does not justifie players making a contact look like a fool when its really not or at leaset its highly debatable. The point of falling in these situations is not to help the referee see a foul but to make a touch look much worse than it actually is, and in my opinion, that is diving. This is a contact sport and you are not fouled because you are touched. I have no problems with players not trying to stay on their feet when they are actually fouled like when Sokratis almost getting his shirt ripped of the other week. But throwing yourself to the ground whenever you feel a slight touch i have a problem with. In my opinion, making a contact look much worse than it is equals diving. When players dont go down when actually fouled they dont have to exeggarate the contact because the contact and the foul is clear as day, but for whatever reason the referee refuser to blow the whistle.

Palyers like Ronaldo and Young has been rightfully accused of diving. I have not rewieved the cases but in most cases you could probably spot some kind of slight contact. I have no problem with saying that i think Martial dived in the weekend. Without a doubt there was contact but it was not a foul and it was clear as day that the defender didnt cause the fall but Martial just throwed himself to the ground because he could feel the contact. How often do you see players throwing themselves to the ground when it is clear that there was no contact? It happens but it is rare and even more rarerely that you get anything out of it. Is diving really a big issue in football if you accept that contact excludes diving?

Obviously if you are running at a high speed, then it dosent tale much for you to but in many of the cases the player going Down is barely moving at all.

Maybe i am just against teams being rewarded with a free shoot at goal, just because somebody was slightly touched in the penalty area and not really affected at all by the touch, but just see it as a possibility to get a free shot at goal.
 
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Rado_N

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Why do foreign footballers and tennis players always say "for sure." Never hear anyone talk like this down the pub. For sure.
Apparently it’s something to do with the way English is learnt by non native speakers, it’s almost a placeholder acknowledgement phrase. I remember asking the same question years ago because F1 drivers always do it.
 

shahzy

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It's literally cheating though?
I’ve seen many non decisions for players who try to stay up even after being fouled and they get a shitty shot off because they were off balance and they get nothing from the ref. I have no problem with players exaggerating granted there is contact. The refs are too shit at their jobs to give pens otherwise.

where it gets sticky is where we have players actually diving with no contact.

emblishment vs diving are not the same
 

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If you like diving then just say it. Stop with the rubbish whataboutism analogies and projections onto other fans. You don't know how I feel when a player on a team I support dives for a penalty. And it's actually on the record that Ronaldo while here, took a lot of flack from United fans for diving.
ok United fans are better than other fans as they don’t accept diving. If that’s what you want to hear. I don’t like diving. I just accept it as part of the game
 

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Apparently it’s something to do with the way English is learnt by non native speakers, it’s almost a placeholder acknowledgement phrase. I remember asking the same question years ago because F1 drivers always do it.
Is there anything peculiar about how these athletes use the phrase? I can't see it.
 

mu4c_20le

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ok United fans are better than other fans as they don’t accept diving. If that’s what you want to hear. I don’t like diving. I just accept it as part of the game
Why don't you like diving?
 

njred

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So Mane was responding to Pep and finished his interview by joking about the diving. Is it really worth four pages to the drama queens?
 

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amolbhatia50k

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If you like diving then just say it. Stop with the rubbish whataboutism analogies and projections onto other fans. You don't know how I feel when a player on a team I support dives for a penalty. And it's actually on the record that Ronaldo while here, took a lot of flack from United fans for diving.
Totally agree
 

Rajma

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How about if you have been caught out blatantly diving in the box, I mean no contact and a spinning dive and rolling on the ground, its an automatic penalty to the opposition? Obviously tongue in cheek but the fan reaction would be priceless.
That’s actually a great idea.
 

Halds

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I'm arguing that more United fans admit when a player of ours dives than Liverpool fans do. It's as close to a fact as possible at this point. Considering I lived in Liverpool for years so have plenty of Liverpudlian mates, plus have Liverpool supporting mates in my closest friend group who I've known since primary school, plus have supported United all my life, been pretty active on a United forum for the last 10 years, and have lived and worked in Manchester, I think I can make that comment in good standing.

This is really all by the by though. I just found it funny that so many have argued their players don't dive, yet here he is admitting it.
The main point that's been made is that any cheating shouldn't be accepted, especially diving as it has the most severe consequence of on-field cheating.
A fact? :lol:

I'd say the only thing that comes close to a fact here is that you're just as biased as everybody else towards your own team and against your rivals.
 

VeevaVee

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A fact? :lol:

I'd say the only thing that comes close to a fact here is that you're just as biased as everybody else towards your own team and against your rivals.
Nope, you’re just wrong. Like I say I’ve spoken with enough of both over the years to form a good enough picture. You’d obviously say otherwise though. So...is Mane a diver?
 

Siorac

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So was Ole's tackle against Newcastle's Rob Lee through on goal. Or, any number of the hundreds of "tactical" fouls made every single PL round. United vs Reyes was blatant, and violent.

Football is rife with cheating, always has been. However, while kicking people around with no intention of making a fair challenge is generally tolerated, or even celebrated, faking getting kicked is seen as a huge crime.

The issue with diving can't be that it's cheating, because not all cheating is treated equally. It also can't be because of the consequences, because a cynical foul can gain you just a big advantage as a dive can. In my opinion it's mostly just culture, especially UK culture. Violence is macho, it's what hard men do. Diving is soft.
Yeah, basically this. There's a completely disproportionate amount of attention and focus wasted on "diving". It's nowhere near as prevalent and damaging as it's claimed. Often it's even called a dive when the defender does commit a foul but the attacker perhaps could have stayed on his feet.

Yeah, diving is not a nice thing to do but the amount of righteous fury over it is baffling. Far worse things are simply accepted as simply "part of the game".
 

Diddy Kong

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A fact? :lol:

I'd say the only thing that comes close to a fact here is that you're just as biased as everybody else towards your own team and against your rivals.
Nope, you’re just wrong. Like I say I’ve spoken with enough of both over the years to form a good enough picture. You’d obviously say otherwise though. So...is Mane a diver?
How can you possibly argue with this logic? You have absolutely no idea how the millions of Liverpool/Manchester United fans think when it comes to this or any topic. I know football is tribal by nature, and there is such a massive rivalry between Liverpool and United (I am no exception to this), but it absolutely amazes me how people can abandon all logic and reason because of it.

How you can possibly claim your argument as "fact" is embarrassing. It causes me to assume that you are of the opinion that United fans are better than Liverpool fans, which is nonsensical. No set of fans are better than any, and almost all are guilty of biases towards their own club.

Back to topic; this forum just sums up the faux-outrage you only ever see on the internet.

As people have mentioned, it is likely that this is taken out of context, and even if it wasn't - who cares! Why would this upset you so much? A dive is no different to the countless other ways players try and gain an advantage by bending the rules. The "Dark Arts" as defenders call it. Experience, cuteness, cleverness, etc.

Also, most fans won't care, and will likely laugh about it if one of these advantages helps them get a result.

A question for those who are so outraged about this:

In 2004, when Rooney dived to get the penalty against Arsenal (he genuinely simulated a foul), and Van Nistelrooy stepped up to exorcise his demons from the previous season, and end Arsenal's unbeaten run, were you outraged? Appalled? Sickened?

Or did you celebrate and laugh at Arsenal?

I think the answer is obvious - even I laughed at Arsenal.
 

VeevaVee

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How can you possibly argue with this logic? You have absolutely no idea how the millions of Liverpool/Manchester United fans think when it comes to this or any topic. I know football is tribal by nature, and there is such a massive rivalry between Liverpool and United (I am no exception to this), but it absolutely amazes me how people can abandon all logic and reason because of it.

How you can possibly claim your argument as "fact" is embarrassing. It causes me to assume that you are of the opinion that United fans are better than Liverpool fans, which is nonsensical. No set of fans are better than any, and almost all are guilty of biases towards their own club.

Back to topic; this forum just sums up the faux-outrage you only ever see on the internet.

As people have mentioned, it is likely that this is taken out of context, and even if it wasn't - who cares! Why would this upset you so much? A dive is no different to the countless other ways players try and gain an advantage by bending the rules. The "Dark Arts" as defenders call it. Experience, cuteness, cleverness, etc.

Also, most fans won't care, and will likely laugh about it if one of these advantages helps them get a result.

A question for those who are so outraged about this:

In 2004, when Rooney dived to get the penalty against Arsenal (he genuinely simulated a foul), and Van Nistelrooy stepped up to exorcise his demons from the previous season, and end Arsenal's unbeaten run, were you outraged? Appalled? Sickened?

Or did you celebrate and laugh at Arsenal?

I think the answer is obvious - even I laughed at Arsenal.
I mean look how long your response is and not even a mention of Mane. And yet you bring up something from 2004 :lol:

The problem is this is happening week in week out now. And yes, when a United player does it I see lots of people acknowledging and condemning it, even if they're happy we got a goal. The difference is Liverpool fans don't. They refuse to accept they've taken advantage of cheating or poor sportsmanship, and I see it time and time again. Of course I don't know every Liverpool fan, but I know plenty and not a single one ever admits it.

As has already been explained, a dive has the most severe consequences. Very often a penalty, potentially a card or second card, and very often changing the outcome of the game. There's not many other ways of 'bending the rules' that directly result in that.

How you can even fathom defending diving is beyond me. I guess it's because you're living in pretense having seen so much of it in recent years.
 

Diddy Kong

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I mean look how long your response is and not even a mention of Mane. And yet you bring up something from 2004 :lol:

The problem is this is happening week in week out now. And yes, when a United player does it I see lots of people acknowledging and condemning it, even if they're happy we got a goal. The difference is Liverpool fans don't. They refuse to accept they've taken advantage of cheating or poor sportsmanship, and I see it time and time again. Of course I don't know every Liverpool fan, but I know plenty and not a single one ever admits it.
Except that I said the his response was likely take out of context and even if it wasn't then who cares? That was my mention of Mane... :confused:

"The difference is Liverpool fans don't" - How can you possibly know this? There are literally millions of Liverpool fans in the world, but because a few you know don't mention it that means that no Liverpool fans do? What kind of logic is that? I can just as easily say that Liverpool fans I know, including in myself, have said that Salah/Mane have gone down easily a few times, or other instances from the past involving other Liverpool players. Now, applying your logic to this, that must mean that Liverpool fans admit this stuff just as much as United fans do, so wow we are just as good as them.

See, how ridiculous your logic is? Both sets of fans have people who are totally biased and will never criticise their team no matter what. FFS, my brother in law is the biggest United fan you will ever meet and he still wont admit that United wont win the league this year! He also recently said that he wouldn't swap Rashford for Mbappe. The list goes on with the ridiculous things he has said in regards to United. And I am sure there are plenty of Liverpool fans who are the exact same!
 

VeevaVee

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Except that I said the his response was likely take out of context and even if it wasn't then who cares? That was my mention of Mane... :confused:

"The difference is Liverpool fans don't" - How can you possibly know this? There are literally millions of Liverpool fans in the world, but because a few you know don't mention it that means that no Liverpool fans do? What kind of logic is that? I can just as easily say that Liverpool fans I know, including in myself, have said that Salah/Mane have gone down easily a few times, or other instances from the past involving other Liverpool players. Now, applying your logic to this, that must mean that Liverpool fans admit this stuff just as much as United fans do, so wow we are just as good as them.

See, how ridiculous your logic is? Both sets of fans have people who are totally biased and will never criticise their team no matter what. FFS, my brother in law is the biggest United fan you will ever meet and he still wont admit that United wont win the league this year! He also recently said that he wouldn't swap Rashford for Mbappe. The list goes on with the ridiculous things he has said in regards to United. And I am sure there are plenty of Liverpool fans who are the exact same!
It's quite easy to form an opinion on Liverpool fans when you've lived there and have been on a football forum full of them for years. You have far and away a more deluded fan base. That's been well known for donkeys.
 

B20

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Then they should punish divers with a yellow card and a penalty to the other side. That would get rid of it in a hurry.
Extend this to tactical fouls as well, time-wasting and mouthing off to the ref.

Clean up the game and make football great again!
 

Prometheus

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It's quite easy to form an opinion on Liverpool fans when you've lived there and have been on a football forum full of them for years. You have far and away a more deluded fan base. That's been well known for donkeys.
It's easy to form an opinion but arguing that opinion is sound and can be reasonably extended to their entire fan base doesn't sound right...if you're being serious. It's hard to know what's banter and what people seriously believe anyway. When people express a generalising opinion on a subset of football fans I always assume it's banter/piss take.
 

VeevaVee

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It's easy to form an opinion but arguing that opinion is sound and can be reasonably extended to their entire fan base doesn't sound right...if you're being serious. It's hard to know what's banter and what people seriously believe anyway. When people express a generalising opinion on a subset of football fans I always assume it's banter/piss take.
Winding up these but it is true that not one has admitted it when they dive, and I’ve spoken to a fair few unfortunately, and seen many more talking about it. It’s also true that they’ve been very deluded in the past as a fan base.
 

Halds

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Nope, you’re just wrong. Like I say I’ve spoken with enough of both over the years to form a good enough picture. You’d obviously say otherwise though. So...is Mane a diver?
I know quite a few of both sets of fans too.. The Liverpool fans I know are usually rather objective when it comes to football, and the Man United fans I know are so biased that it's almost impossible to have a serious conversation with them. So no.. You are completely wrong. From an objective point of view It really is the complete opposite of what you're claiming. And I am not biased at all. It's just the way it is comparing the two sets of fans.

And I've never seen Mané go down without contact so no.. He's not a diver. You would obviously disagree, but that's probably because you're unable to view it objectively.
 
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VorZakone

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Ben Johnson beat Carl Lewis in the 1988 100m Olympic Games Final. History remembers the winner, Ben Johnson, as a cheating cnut.
Maradona cheated, is treated like a God though.
 

kouroux

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I know quite a few of both sets of fans too.. The Liverpool fans I know are usually rather objective when it comes to football, and the Man United fans I know are so biased that it's almost impossible to have a serious conversation with them. So no.. You are completely wrong. From an objective point of view It really is the complete opposite of what you're claiming. And I am not biased at all. It's just the way it is comparing the two sets of fans.

And I've never seen Mané go down without contact so no.. He's not a diver. You would obviously disagree, but that's probably because you're unable to view it objectively.
Just because there is contact, doesn't mean the player isn't diving. Mane is just very good at it
 

VeevaVee

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I know quite a few of both sets of fans too.. The Liverpool fans I know are usually rather objective when it comes to football, and the Man United fans I know are so biased that it's almost impossible to have a serious conversation with them. So no.. You are completely wrong. From an objective point of view It really is the complete opposite of what you're claiming. And I am not biased at all. It's just the way it is comparing the two sets of fans.

And I've never seen Mané go down without contact so no.. He's not a diver. You would obviously disagree, but that's probably because you're unable to view it objectively.
You can't just lie, twice. Liverpool fans are well known for making up United supporting mates as well.
 

Halds

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You can't just lie, twice. Liverpool fans are well known for making up United supporting mates as well.
Oh please.. It's a well known fact that Liverpudlians are among the most honest people around.
 

Roger

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Maradona cheated, is treated like a God though.
I take it you are referring to the infamous "hand of god" incident in the World Cup quarter final match v England in 1986.

In the same game Maradona scores one of the finest goals ever seen at a World Cup. But the one that is always remembered is the so called "hand of god".

Cheating tarnishes everything it touches.
 
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Needham

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This fecker weighs 69kg. Loads of modern players are lighter than a __________________. It's no wonder they go down easier than a ________________.