SAF this season

noodlehair

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Giggs could be on the wing for all we know, as could Welbeck. It could conceivably turn out to be at least a relatively orthodox formation with those players.

Giggs behind Hernandez, Nani and Welbeck on the wings, then two centre mids and four at the back...

We'll see how it pans out.
How is playing Welbeck as a winger and Hernandez as a lone front man orthodox?

We tried that at home to Sunderland and it was so diabolically awful we had to change it half way through the game.

Not to mention having two 35+ year olds in the same midfield, for a tough away game where the opposition are unlikely to sit off.

We could very easily have played one of Giggs/Scholes centrally on Thursday (or even stuck Jones there) and saved Park for today...or we could just play Young in his position. We paid about £18m in order to be able to play Ashley Young after all.

Or how about playing Berbatov as the lone front man instead of Hernandez...that way we might at least have half a chance of being able to hold the ball up for a bit before losing it.
 

noodlehair

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Oh dear?

We were outplayed for the parts of the game when Norwich didn't sit off, which was basically all except the first and last ten minutes. Playing Paul Scholes and Ryan Giggs together in the same midfield wasn't a good idea anymore in 2008.

Norwich bottled it big time after they equalised.
 

7dan

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Its getting tickly now–squeaky-bum time, I call it
Oh dear?

We were outplayed for the parts of the game when Norwich didn't sit off, which was basically all except the first and last ten minutes. Playing Paul Scholes and Ryan Giggs together in the same midfield wasn't a good idea anymore in 2008.

Norwich bottled it big time after they equalised.
go away boy will ya. 2-1 giggs and scholes..... age dont matter once theyre playing well which they both are
 

MikeUpNorth

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Berbatov should have played up front for me. Hernandez meant we continually lost the ball and consequently players were afraid to run past him.
 

Ash_G

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Oh dear?

We were outplayed for the parts of the game when Norwich didn't sit off, which was basically all except the first and last ten minutes. Playing Paul Scholes and Ryan Giggs together in the same midfield wasn't a good idea anymore in 2008.
I don't think it was about them playing in midfield together. I think it's a problem we've seen a fair few times now which is attitude. We're just to casual when we go a goal up. We're so much better when we play with urgency. Our players seem to really be taking the opposition lightly at times. When we needed to play we showed we could over power them, as we have plenty of other teams, but the problem is that we turn off way too much.

I also don't think we should look to play an out and out 442 in the league. We need one of those players to be able to drop deep well because we're so much better when we set up like that.
 

Varun

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Berbatov should have played up front for me. Hernandez meant we continually lost the ball and consequently players were afraid to run past him.
My only beef with the selection today. Berba should have started ahead of Hernandez.
 

Cheesy

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Oh dear?

We were outplayed for the parts of the game when Norwich didn't sit off, which was basically all except the first and last ten minutes. Playing Paul Scholes and Ryan Giggs together in the same midfield wasn't a good idea anymore in 2008.

Norwich bottled it big time after they equalised.
No need to worry. These games happen, and in the end we've been able to come out of it with a win.

I'm not a massive fan of Giggs and Scholes playing together in the midfield, however both of them scored. It did work today, even if not everything went to plan.
 

kouroux

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The result doesn't change the fact we were outplayed today. You'd have to be blind to miss that! Great effort at the end but you've got to ask, why wait until they equalize to bother getting stuck in?
Maybe the team cannot do otherwise.Once they equalize, it's like an electroshock and suddenly everyone wakes up.I don't think SAF would have let the players get this relaxed after this scoring in each match, it's just that the team cannot control matches as calmly as we'd like
 

Ash_G

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Maybe the team cannot do otherwise.Once they equalize, it's like an electroshock and suddenly everyone wakes up.I don't think SAF would have let the players get this relaxed after this scoring in each match, it's just that the team cannot control matches as calmly as we'd like
I don't think it's that. The team visibly slows down once we're winning. Sometimes we've had complete control of the ball but because we've showed no desire to score another we've let the other team back in. I don't think it's about control, it's an attitude problem and personally I'm starting to think it's getting to the point where you have to wonder what Fergie is saying to the players about it because it'd not been addressed.
 

Red Dreams

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tbh Scholes and Carrick are capable of letting teams have a go at us and counter with the goal when they come at us. Credit to Norwich for their efforts today.

Personally I dont like to see us sitting back. Its not the players. I think SAF does tell them to do this at times. Pacing ourselves?

its not a coincidence we nothched up a gear after they scored. and really we should have been at least 3-0 up if Wellbeck had not been so wasteful.
 

kouroux

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I don't think it's that. The team visibly slows down once we're winning. Sometimes we've had complete control of the ball but because we've showed no desire to score another we've let the other team back in. I don't think it's about control, it's an attitude problem and personally I'm starting to think it's getting to the point where you have to wonder what Fergie is saying to the players about it because it'd not been addressed.
You may be right and maybe I'm a little biased to even wanna question SAF but one thing is sure, it's annoying and we've paid it many times.
 

Godfather

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Sitting back and waiting for counter was our big strenght 2, 3 years ago. We've become pretty shit at it tbh.
 

noodlehair

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go away boy will ya. 2-1 giggs and scholes..... age dont matter once theyre playing well which they both are
:lol: "go away boy"

Of course age matter you nincompoop...Scholes is so old he retired 8 months ago.

They're both great players but you can't stick them both in midfield together and expect it to be as effective as 10 years ago. We lacked any midfield presence today for a vast majority of the game, and I didn't even think Norwich were very good.

I don't think it was about them playing in midfield together. I think it's a problem we've seen a fair few times now which is attitude. We're just to casual when we go a goal up. We're so much better when we play with urgency. Our players seem to really be taking the opposition lightly at times. When we needed to play we showed we could over power them, as we have plenty of other teams, but the problem is that we turn off way too much.

I also don't think we should look to play an out and out 442 in the league. We need one of those players to be able to drop deep well because we're so much better when we set up like that.
To be fair I agree in general, but I didn't think it was so much that today. We were urgent enough...in fact there were parts of the game where we were too urgent. Like the spells in the first half where we ept spanking the ball away or trying to play give and goes at speeds no human is capable of moving at.

Norwich just had more energy than us, and our hold up player/outlet, was fecking Hernandez. So there was no chance of us even playing direct to the front man and having players run off him. Welbeck was dropping deep all game. He was stood where our midfield should have been a lot of the time.

and at the end I just thought Norwich bottled it. They didn't seem to know what to do so just sat off and panicked. They were practically hacking the ball into their own net by the time we put it in there for them.

Berbatov should have played up front for me. Hernandez meant we continually lost the ball and consequently players were afraid to run past him.
Yep. Hernandez runs in behind. It doesn't really work if you're just hacking the ball aimlessly up the pitch or trying to play it into his feet the whole time. Thought he should have been taken off at half time...no fault of his but the way the game paned out it was obvious he wasn't going to have much of an effect on it.
 

Randall Flagg

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No need to worry. These games happen, and in the end we've been able to come out of it with a win.

I'm not a massive fan of Giggs and Scholes playing together in the midfield, however both of them scored. It did work today, even if not everything went to plan.
Also I dont see many alternatives to playing Giggs and Scholes today. They were both rested for this game but looking at the other options it would be Park or Young.

Fergie picked the correct team today. Was always going to be a difficult game.

Fair enough the argument for Berba starting. I dont think he should have
 

Commadus

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To get the best of Hernandez you need the oppositon to be teased out of deep positions or if they play a high line. He is not very good with his back to goals.
 

Edmeiste

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I don't think it's that. The team visibly slows down once we're winning. Sometimes we've had complete control of the ball but because we've showed no desire to score another we've let the other team back in. I don't think it's about control, it's an attitude problem and personally I'm starting to think it's getting to the point where you have to wonder what Fergie is saying to the players about it because it'd not been addressed.
it's bothering me too. It happened against Ajax and it happened again today. The difference is that we havent really been punished for it. It shouldn't have to come that point for us to realize that it is indeed a problem and that we need to stay on the front foot
 

gbgary

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Sitting back and waiting for counter was our big strenght 2, 3 years ago. We've become pretty shit at it tbh.
countering has always been a United strength...sitting back isn't. it's cost us every time we play someone who pressures the ball. the fact that we refuse to pressure the ball frustrates me the most.
 

Cheesy

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Easily summed up in three words.

Too much rotation.
I think this sort of comment shows that Fergie is in a no win situation when it comes to this competition. If he wasn't rotating at all, and we were losing several key players to injury in the competition, then people would blame him for playing all of our key players.

When he doesn't do it though, people moan about us rotating too much. You can't have it both ways, and I'd rather see him rotate. It would be nice to win this competition, however by no means should it be seen as a priority for us.
 

Rado_N

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Bizarrely he apparently said in his presser that we've been making too many changes in Europe when asked about our poor form. Then he fields that midfield. Odd.
 

ha_rooney

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Perhaps he should consider playing 4-5-1 in Europe again. I'm not too bothered if we go out of the Europa, it's the pathetic performance in Europe again which is most annoying/concerning.
 

Sultan

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I can't quite work out if Athletic Bilbao were brilliant or United woeful.

English teams have fallen of their perch in Europe this season.
 

Cina

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A bit of both Sults. Bilbao have a lot of talent in the team and ripped us a new one tonight.

Dreadful, dreadful team selection though.
 

Snow

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Embarrassing. Dominated two games in a row at Old Trafford. Conceded 5 goals. Couldn't cope with pressure at all and the possession football has escaped us.
 

Garethw

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Worst season in years and years from SAF. Some of his tactics and team selections have been crazy.
 

Theon

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I can't quite get over Bilbao's energy levels.
Same. They were closing down at such a higher level than we were, maybe in part because the competition means more to them? Or could be tactical, I suppose. Even their wingers were closing down and making tackles.

Jones was poor tonight but at least in the first 20 minutes he was matching that tempo defensively.
 

Crustanoid

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Should have been about 2-6. No cohesion whatsoever. I'm struggling to see where this current team is going with some of the decision making over the last twelve months or so
 

kps88

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Its been coming to be honest. We've been outplayed for large periods in our last THREE games. I'm just thankful its not come in the league.
 

Devilton

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I can't quite work out if Athletic Bilbao were brilliant or United woeful.

English teams have fallen of their perch in Europe this season.
Bilbao were brilliant.

They didn't give a feck who we were, they didn't give a feck where they were playing and just decided to take the game to us. Make no mistake, they watched Barca destroy us both times in the champions league and used a similar blue print.

Attack and press from front to back.

Basically they out played and out thought us today and they deserve credit for that.
 

wr8_utd

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Fergie thinks we'd be able to compete with Madrid and Barca if we were still in the CL this year? :lol:
 

forevrared

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After seeing Bilbao play for the first time, the team we put out tonight is even more unbelievable.