Why is it a slow fall compared to the steep accelerated rise?
And why hasnt the uk seen a fall or plateau yet (assuming the last few days fall has been due to the normal weekend lull) as were now in week 4 of lockdown.
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
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And why hasnt the uk seen a fall or plateau yet (assuming the last few days fall has been due to the normal weekend lull) as were now in week 4 of lockdown.
Major difference in the UK was the approaches of governments when it came to public spending in the aftermath of each crisis.
I really don’t see that someone saying that the young have been shafted by this are entitled. From an economic perspective they have been shafted.
Those aged c.30-35 have/are forging careers in the face of two massive recessions and this could well impact their entire working career.
Sure those looking to retire in next couple of years have also been shafted as pension pots have probably lost a HUGE amount. But many of those will have a house that is bought and paid for and worth 3x what was paid for it.
I didn’t read the posts as this only impacting millennials, but to deny their prospects are bleak is a bit weird.
Those aged c.30-35 have/are forging careers in the face of two massive recessions and this could well impact their entire working career.
Sure those looking to retire in next couple of years have also been shafted as pension pots have probably lost a HUGE amount. But many of those will have a house that is bought and paid for and worth 3x what was paid for it.
I didn’t read the posts as this only impacting millennials, but to deny their prospects are bleak is a bit weird.
Emotionally yes. Financially no. The generation most affected by the virus are already financially secure. The generation starting their careers over the last 10 years are doing so in the worst economic environment for a century. The Great Depression was the last comparable time but i would argue there was more opportunity that came out of the years following that. This time all that will happen is those with money get an opportunity to buy more assets at cut prices. The young will just be continuing trying to build something for themselves in an even more difficult environment than before.
Indeed, two of the largest recessions ever, one hits the moment we leave uni and the other hits in our early 30's as we're trying to get our lives back in order. Both beyond our control. I have a lot of friends who still can't afford to buy property and either had to move home or rent at a massive cost. Then you've the fact that the years of extra taxes, fees etc. we've had to deal with (in Ireland anyway) that were finally getting eased off will probably come back into play after this.
Obviously what's happening right now totally outweighs any economic cost and I do think most people my age group understand the necessity of it, but it's still a total disaster for us and calling people entitled for being concerned, yet again, about what will happen, is harsh.
For Italy it took about 26 days to notice a genuine drop trend so this week is the acid test for UK, which is 22 days since lockdown. At this stage both UK and Italy have hit ~700 deaths but this could be related to weekend and easter in UK. Seeing a drop into the 600 range this week would be a good sign.
Also other countries had other measures like playing behind closed doors and stopping other events in hard hit areas weeks before, if UK continues on with high numbers between 700-900 it might point to these helping before a full lockdown.
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This is clearly going to be hugely challenging once things return to a semblance of normality.
I have seen a lot of speculation as to economic impact, in large part dictated by chosen political policy, but none of this can be spoken about with any degree of certainty yet.
In any case, it’s a bit too linear to talk about which age brackets are going to be disproportionately impacted by all this, and probably more appropriate to talk about BAME and low earning households being the most shafted.
I say all of this as a 32 year old with two children under the age of two. So basically falling into the bracket of people who will supposedly be most impacted. Other people can react as they wish but I don’t think it’s particularly productive to whinge about future scenarios that may not play out. It’s no good having a negative mindset, best to ensure you are well positioned to stand out in the job market moving forward. There will always be opportunity to make money if savvy enough.
We all have things to worry about and it is important that we all see each others perspective - worries, concerns included. I'm hoping that the world will learn from this and be keener on things like UBI and society as a family that looks after everyone be it in terms of socialised free health and education and a preferably a UBI. I am probably being stupidly optimistic and I'm quite willing to pay higher taxes to achieve it but I fear there will be a return to the not fit for purpose ways we currently operate.
Because singling out a particular section of society (your own) as being ‘disproportionately’ affected by this virus shows a narrow minded and entitled view.
All age groups will suffer the effects. you mention 30-35’s. What about 35-50’s? Many could lose their job and many of those will find it hard to get new ones in similar roles. So what do they do?
Many will need to retrain. How easy for them will that be? Most of them will already have families to support. Some, in their 50’ and onwards will probably not be able to retrain or find other employment, game over for those.
Im 45. Neither old nor young. I see my elderly relatives confined with no real contact with the outside world and living in real fear. What a way to spend your remaining days.
Myself? All my plans for the next 10-15 years could be out of the window. All of them discussions from as recently as 12 weeks ago with my Mrs about what we’re going to do, all the results of our hard work, in the future, they could all be wiped away in a flash.
We’d sold our house in February and bought a new one. That’s all fallen through now. But it doesn’t matter, we have each other and have our health and our children are well.
The young can and will adapt to whatever lies at the end of this. They’ll have their parents help and support and the ability and opportunity to retrain if necessary. No point in focusing on it and comparing levels of suffering.
I wonder what lies in store for my children, 15 and 12, but we’ll all just have to wait and see and do as best we can. My only selfish thought at this time is that I want to be around to see them grow up.
So no one is denying it will be hard for young people but to say it will disproportionately affect them is ridiculous. This thing has pulled the rug out from under all of us.
For once whether you’re old or young, or like me, in the middle, we’re all in this very much together and will be for the foreseeable future.
So hold tight.
My mother calls it “hollering before you are hurt.”
I’m with you, but fear we are both overly optimistic fools!
Fabulous post and some good perspective.
The post I saw was the young have been shafted. Not that the young had been shafted more than others.
You should do the government’s daily press briefing.
I agree with this, just weird that older posters said that the young had no right to say that they were forging careers in context of two utter shite economic recessions.
Those older don’t appear to empathise with the youth that are shit scared for their prospects of never getting on the property ladder, or perhaps just have got on the ladder and face a drop of 30% in property prices.
We had a it wont happen to us mentality in this country I feel, the government I mean. Also I didn't think wed get to italys numbers.
Most of us older ones have children of our own and are worrying for them. But what do you want us to do about it? What can we do about it?
Where do you possibly get the impression that all older people are financially secure? A huge number are not homeowners. They have no personal pension, they're looking forward to the luxury of the state pension to retire on. A lot aren't car owners. They've worked in what are now called minimum wage jobs all their lives, in and out of work for a hundred reasons, they've struggled to raise children through it all. No savings whatsoever. Maybe now in their fifties and hoping finally to have a few years to save up for the time when they won't be earning anything at all, or they were.
I’m the same age as you and going through similar stresses to you. That said, even before this crisis I felt thankful that I spent my 20s and 30s without any of the existential angst that the younger generation have been going through over the last decade. And now this.
The 90s was a phenomenal decade to be young, so we definitely lucked out with the timing of our birth. Trying to get your career started and enjoy your life while still young and relatively responsibility free during two deep recessions, one after the other, has to be pretty grim.
It comes across as highly entitled when you whinge about the specific problems your age bracket may face at a time when the entire globe is being decimated.
Edit: You are also making sweeping generalisations about other age brackets, assuming you know their pressures and backstories.
You can feck off mate, your problems don’t count
In all seriousness though, that’s another great point. If you have reached a certain age then you have the perennial angst of worrying about your kids with everything going on. No one is going to come out of this in great shape.
So you agree that the young are fecked then as you’re worrying for your children. But the youth can’t say that?!
It's not about whether all older people are financially secure.
It's about whether older people tend to be more financially secure than younger people. Are they more likely to have secure jobs, more likely to own their own homes, more likely to have savings, etc. If they are then (one would think) they will tend to be in a better position than an age group who are less likely to have those advantages.
Obviously every age category will be effected, I get that there will be vulnerable people in all age groups and I get why people prefer to think of it as us all being in it together.
But if the argument is that certain age groups won't or haven't been disproportionately effected more than others by the two crises then as far as I'm aware that's straight-up wrong, because there's no magic element of economics that says groups who tend to be in very different financial and social positions will still be impacted to exactly the same extent.
I’m really not. I worry for all ages, we all have different pressures and are all valid!!
I just find a lot of people dismissive of the youth who are whinging and moaning!! I am not saying that I at 34 years old have it worse! But others of a similar age who have expressed angst have been shot down by those that are older, worrying about retirement / their kids futures.
We’re all facing a bleak future but to call younger posters out for whinging / being entitled when at best they’ve made blanket statements like the youth have been shafted (not more shafted) is harsh.
I agree. 100%.
But whatever generation you are you have to make the best of what time you are given otherwise you’re just spending your life wallowing.
As for the 90’s. Instead of dicking around reliving the 70’s and 80’s, bring back the 90’s, Rave culture and high quality E and most problems would be solved ...
Firstly I’m not saying anyone is fecked. That’s insinuating there is no future at all for anyone which is bollocks.
And I’m not saying youth can’t be concerned for their future. I just took umbrage with a post a while back suggesting youth and the young we’re disproportionately screwed. It is just wrong to make comparisons of ‘screwedness’ while the world is going through this.
You can feck off mate, your problems don’t count
People are poor at empathising when stressed
It’s never valuable to apologise for how someone else feels to be honest.
“I can see that you’re angry”
“I understand why you’re angry”
There’s empathy there. Apologising for how someone has processed events is condescending as all hell. It suggests irrationality and wrongness.
“I’m sorry for your emotions” is a hidey hole for the cowardly. Front up. If someone is angry about how you’ve acted, tell them you understand. Explain why you acted how you did. People don’t need to agree. If you can’t stand behind your actions, don’t push the blame to the recipient of your mistake.
Are we though? Difficult at present sure and certainly an uncertain future but what’s to say what’s waiting for us isn’t a bit of an existential reset? A much needed one? Maybe a different future but we don’t know if it’s bleak yet.
There are exceptions to every rule.
Doesn't change the fact that somebody now at 60+ had the opportunity to buy a house at 2-4x annual salary.
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As someone (no idea who) once said, the 90s were the 60s with balls. Decades like that come around very very rarely. So grateful to have been at the right age to enjoy it. Obviously helped by the absence of smartphones and never needing to worry about sloppy behaviour being filmed and shared online!I agree. 100%.
But whatever generation you are you have to make the best of what time you are given otherwise you’re just spending your life wallowing.
As for the 90’s. Instead of dicking around reliving the 70’s and 80’s, bring back the 90’s, Rave culture and high quality E and most problems would be solved ...
The “flattening of the curve” was less about number of deaths and more number of (severe) cases, in order to ensure that that figure did not breach care capacity. The bargain for “flattening the curve” was always that we may have more cases in total even and that they are spread out over a longer period of time. We’re only in April FFS.
This guy seems to think flattening the curve means producing mountain ranges, which isn’t the case. You’re literally trying to have a much longer, but far less acute peak.
fecking semantics on wording.
Five or so posts up, Pogue posted the following to which you “100% agreed with”
“Trying to get your career started and enjoy your life while still young and relatively responsibility free during two deep recessions, one after the other, has to be pretty grim”
Pretty grim / bleak future / fecked - the first two are pretty much the same!!
Exceptions would indicate one or two, I'm talking about many millions. You sound like you've been brought up in a bubble with a nice mummy and daddy who have good jobs, a good house and good pensions and imagine everyone of that age group must be like that. Maybe not, but for whatever reason you have a very limited understanding of the world. Go on a few long bus rides on your own, phone off, and look at people, a few long walks around the huge inner cities (careful now), the estates and the towns across Britain, see the older people who you think are all so well off, look at their homes, their shops, at them walking with their shopping and waiting at the bus stop. Look at their faces. And learn.
Or maybe all that is bollocks and you just naturally lack the ability to empathise, I don't know.
You'll find the exact same older folk in here have always taken umbrage at any suggestion or facts stated related to younger generations having it hard. I'd wager you'll find it in at least 5 threads.
No point repeating it in here, save your time and effort. They know the facts and choose to ignore them.
For what it’s worth i didn’t see a post saying the young were disproportionality screwed, just that the youth had been screwed by this crisis. Then people responded to say that the elderly who have disproportionality paid the ultimate price (which is true).
Just seemed that anyone of below 35 who was worried got jumped on for whinging and complaining - not necessarily by you btw.
We’ve all got problems whether that’s our own outlook, for our children, for our elderly parents. We’ve all got struggles and empathy is needed for everyone’s perspective when the world burns.
Read my above edit. The 60+ age group had an opportunity to buy a house at 2-4x annual salary. Not all of them did or could, but the rule still stands. That generation are more financially secure than those entering the working world now are likely to be. Anybody looking to buy a house now needs to spend 7-8x salary.
Yeah I’ve kind of said my bit in my last response.
It’s not all directed at @Volumiza who I’ve shared a back and forth with either.
Just weird for posters calling for people to appreciate other perspectives etc when calling out the young for whinging!