Scores die in Israeli air strikes

[vardamir1]

If the Israeli's didn't give a shit, all of Gaza would be a smouldering crater by now.

and you would go down in history for genocide.

An argument of 'look how great we are, we _didn't_ commit genocide' really isn't a very strong one.

 

[vardamir1]

And how do you brand Hamas when they chuck other Fatah palestinians out of hospital windows?

Freedom fighters?[/QUOTE

terrorists. Just like we brand Israel. And the civilian population of both countries is brainwashed into watching on, cheering and dying.

 

[vardamir1]

Basically the whole situation is, and always has been, a land dispute; a battle over territory. And, as much as it depresses me to say so, battles over territory generally end messily and with a victor.

As much as we'd love the two sides to be viable neighbours, it looks further away than ever. I think the eventual solution may take some really unpopular, difficult and morally questionable decisions to be made.

I agree. And when Rabin was prepared to grasp the nettle, he was shot by one of his own.

Hamas are terrorists, of that there is no doubt. But they believe in the freedom of their land. Suppose tomorrow they lay down their weapons: what will happen? They will get some derisory settlement like the 1999 agreement that makes the Palestinian state a powerless bantustan with no aquifers and fractured territory. Neither they, nor the palestinian people want that.

Israel feel they are in power and in control. So why let go, why leave the gains of '67? To them to agree to real territorial concessions would be a defeat. Much easier to answer force with force: it means you don't have to take difficult decisions.

What needs to happen is for a third external power to come in, split Palestine proportionally to the populations of the two nations and enforce the peace. But the strength of the anglo-saxon pact with israel won't let that happen.

 

[vardamir1]

Looks like you have what it takes to run for Hamas next leadership. That wish, coupled with disregard for the lives of their own, sums up the required qualifications.

I hope that the Palestinians understand that despite past events there is a large majority among Israelis that see a two-state solution as the only one guarenteeing something resembling normal life in this region. Unfortunately, I don't think the Palestinians have reached that stage and we'll probably have to go through several rounds of violence in order to reach the same conclusions that can be reached at this point in time.

It's actually quite tragic how the Palestinians end up caught in the hate-campaigns of bellends of your type. A couple of Palestinian journalists interviewed from Gaza yesterday sound much less hysterical and more relaistic that you and your internet-analyst colleagues.

BTW, according to Palestinian officials 15 of the 230 dead in Gaza were unarmed civilians. Really tragic, and one doesn't have to be a brainless Jordanian shithead to feel angry for the needless loss of innocent lives. What Jordanians and other politically-primitive specimens fail to understand is that the first commitment of a democratically elected government is to defend it's civilians. Under the constant missile fire on Southern Israel during the last couple of weeks the Israeli government was left with no other option. Considering Gaza is the most heavily populated area in the world no other country in the world would have done a better job in pinpointing the culprits.

In theory I am sure the Palestinians support the two-state solution (as do I). But it's the finer points (=boundaries) that are bound to cause disagreement, and I do not see a viable settlement being reached.

As for defending civilians, do Hamas not have that commitement in defending its civilians too? So if you adopt your logic, the firing of rockets is as legitimate as your retaliation. The problem is that this 'eye for an eye' logic leads nowhere, and that to kill 100-odd people in responce to a rocket barrage that maybe killed a handful of people is excessive, and just escalates the conflict.

They were left with an option - to lift the blockade on Gaza, and to sit down and start talking to Hamas and Fatah, with real territorial concessions (along the lines of '67) being put onto the table. Even Ahmadinejad recently said that he favoured the two-state option...

 

[holyland red]

In theory I am sure the Palestinians support the two-state solution (as do I). But it's the finer points (=boundaries) that are bound to cause disagreement, and I do not see a viable settlement being reached.

I wish I could agree with this. With Hamas in power there aren't any recognised boundaries to be discussed as it opposes the existence of an independent Israel.

As for defending civilians, do Hamas not have that commitement in defending its civilians too? So if you adopt your logic, the firing of rockets is as legitimate as your retaliation. The problem is that this 'eye for an eye' logic leads nowhere, and that to kill 100-odd people in responce to a rocket barrage that maybe killed a handful of people is excessive, and just escalates the conflict.

Not exactly. At least this time Hamas fired without any Israeli provocation. Israel doesn't have to respond according to the num,ber of casualties from Hamas rockets. What does it have to say to civilians in the south, who's been living in fear for years now? Die first, so we can respond to mortar and missile fire?

They were left with an option - to lift the blockade on Gaza, and to sit down and start talking to Hamas and Fatah, with real territorial concessions (along the lines of '67) being put onto the table. Even Ahmadinejad recently said that he favoured the two-state option...

There is nothing to talk with Hamas about at this stage. The latest Tahadiya only serves to prove that short-term "truce" agreement are worthless and result in a worse round of violence when they end.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

All this pleases Hamas.

Indeed. Their plan to make Israel hated the world over for having to defend herself is working. Hamas are infact counting on plenty of civilian deaths to success with that. That is why their inslations are so close to civilian areas.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

.........Considering Gaza is the most heavily populated area in the world no other country in the world would have done a better job in pinpointing the culprits.

In truth there is no good job that can be done in that situation. Innocent life will be lost whatever Israel does. It's a no win situation. Protecting her citizens despite the cost is the only option.

 

[vardamir1]

In theory I am sure the Palestinians support the two-state solution (as do I). But it's the finer points (=boundaries) that are bound to cause disagreement, and I do not see a viable settlement being reached.

I wish I could agree with this. With Hamas in power there aren't any recognised boundaries to be discussed as it opposes the existence of an independent Israel.

As for defending civilians, do Hamas not have that commitement in defending its civilians too? So if you adopt your logic, the firing of rockets is as legitimate as your retaliation. The problem is that this 'eye for an eye' logic leads nowhere, and that to kill 100-odd people in responce to a rocket barrage that maybe killed a handful of people is excessive, and just escalates the conflict.

Not exactly. At least this time Hamas fired without any Israeli provocation. Israel doesn't have to respond according to the num,ber of casualties from Hamas rockets. What does it have to say to civilians in the south, who's been living in fear for years now? Die first, so we can respond to mortar and missile fire?

They were left with an option - to lift the blockade on Gaza, and to sit down and start talking to Hamas and Fatah, with real territorial concessions (along the lines of '67) being put onto the table. Even Ahmadinejad recently said that he favoured the two-state option...

There is nothing to talk with Hamas about at this stage. The latest Tahadiya only serves to prove that short-term "truce" agreement are worthless and result in a worse round of violence when they end.

Well, according to a poll by an Israeli (?) organisation in 2007, 46% of Gaza respondents support a two-state solution, and a further 24% support a binational one, so the support is there.

The problem is, that such large-scale retaliatory attacks, with so many causalties, make the Palestinians even more in support of Hamas than they were before, and are counter-productive to any peace process. When you kill so many people, it invariably makes you look the aggressor. And what makes you think this will stop rockets being fired? Yes, your safety from rockets is important, but you cannot continue to kill and kill people who may not have been responsible for them in order to guarantee it. Since you, for all intents and purposes, still control Gaza, do you not have an equal responsibility to its residents as well? Imagine the British government bombing Leeds because some terrorists were hiding there?

So you are saying that if a two-state option along 1967 lines were proposed then Israel would accept it if major Palestinian organisations like Hamas, and Hezbollah pledged non-violence?

If so, then why didn't the agreement Barak signed in 1999 or 2000 agree to such major concessions?

EDIT: suppose you accept the 10-year truce and thrash out the boundaries along 1967 lines: do you not think that in that time, should violence cease, Palestinian support for Hamas would fall? Maybe if you throw in a south african style 'truth and reconciliation commission' as well to heal old wounds...

 

[vardamir1]

Indeed. Their plan to make Israel hated the world over for having to defend herself is working. Hamas are infact counting on plenty of civilian deaths to success with that. That is why their inslations are so close to civilian areas.

I agree. But Israel are all too happy in playing their part in this game: they are more than happy to respond in kind.

 

[GAngel]

I agree. But Israel are all too happy in playing their part in this game: they are more than happy to respond in kind.

Israel's population and economy are too small to allow them to suffer mass casualties. therefore they fight the only way they can (from afar). Plus public perception is everything in israel and they have maintained a very healthy retal policy to keep there regional enemies in check.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I agree. But Israel are all too happy in playing their part in this game: they are more than happy to respond in kind.

But that is the tragedy of it all! Israel can't be expected to not respond to their citizens being attacked. But if an elephant steps on an ant. More than one ant will die. & this battles is like that between an ant and an elephant. And an elephant can never have a proportionate response to an ant....

I blame Israel from some years ago buying Bush's stupid idea to isolate Arafat when he was alive. The ushered in the opportunity for the Hamas mad men to rise to power in Palestine and make it near impossible to formulate peace between the two states.


But most of all I blame Hamas for the endless death on both sides. The world over it has been shown that true freedom, from what a people view as oppression, can only be got by peaceful means. You can't be violent with people way more powerful than you. In an effort to get him to let you alone. Because they will simply crush you like bugs when they respond. Fueling more hatred amongst your people, who will also get into this senseless wheel of violence in which only they and their children will lose.

 

[Wizard Keyaz]

I am deeply saddened about this news, if anyone is from the London area and would like to help there is a demonstration at 2pm outside the Embassy of Israel, 2 Palace Green, Kensington High street tube station. W8 4QB

I don’t want to get into a discussion about what s right and what is wrong as it is VERY clear within your hearts on what is happening.

I know for most here it doesn’t mean much, but help other innocent lives from getting taken away from these barbaric people and help with your attendance and you would save many lives. I plea to you guys to do the right thing and help build up the numbers for this demonstration!

 

[topper]

I am deeply saddened about this news, if anyone is from the London area and would like to help there is a demonstration at 2pm outside the Embassy of Israel, 2 Palace Green, Kensington High street tube station. W8 4QB

I don’t want to get into a discussion about what s right and what is wrong as it is VERY clear within your hearts on what is happening.

I know for most here it doesn’t mean much, but help other innocent lives from getting taken away from these barbaric people and help with your attendance and you would save many lives. I plea to you guys to do the right thing and help build up the numbers for this demonstration!

and - in the interests of fair play - you are planning similar demos outside Palestinian locations too

 

[IhabX7]

Brutality, barbarism, and some other word(s) I can't use over the internet come to mind as well.

More than 270 Palestinians killed so far after the IAF renewed their attacks this miserable morning.

I will try to find some web tool to translate this:

http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3645476,00.html

Just look at the people of Israel's comments below the article. Absolute disgrace. They would just wish the world closes it's eyes for a few hours and wipe out every single arab, even those inside of israel. PLEASE find a way to do this so that you know what type of people there are in Israel, it would change the views of those of you who think they are the "victim" as they love to show on every single opportunity.

PS Israeli News are counting "Anxiety injuries" of people who heard a sound of missile and went crying to the hospital. While people are collecting children pieces and human parts of the floor in Gaza. Makes you think what kind of life both sides are living in.

 

[IhabX7]

But that is the tragedy of it all! Israel can't be expected to not respond to their citizens being attacked. But if an elephant steps on an ant. More than one ant will die. & this battles is like that between an ant and an elephant. And an elephant can never have a proportionate response to an ant....

I blame Israel from some years ago buying Bush's stupid idea to isolate Arafat when he was alive. The ushered in the opportunity for the Hamas mad men to rise to power in Palestine and make it near impossible to formulate peace between the two states.


But most of all I blame Hamas for the endless death on both sides. The world over it has been shown that true freedom, from what a people view as oppression, can only be got by peaceful means. You can't be violent with people way more powerful than you. In an effort to get him to let you alone. Because they will simply crush you like bugs when they respond. Fueling more hatred amongst your people, who will also get into this senseless wheel of violence in which only they and their children will lose.

Did you come to this world a couple of years ago mate? you look an utterly clueless person who can write with pretty grammar.

It really saddens me to say this but, there is no realistic peaceful political solution that is fair that insures historical justice to the people of this land. You don't come to my house and "conquer" most of it and leave me living in the bathroom and if I shout at you you'd whip me, and after years when we both "get used" to it, I shall agree to let go of what was mine to not get whipped any more. Its the start of it all that you are ignoring for some bizarre reason.

But lets not go there. More than 270 killed, I'd like Pro-Israel people to say that they are saddened, just saddened nothing more, it would mean a lot.

 

[IhabX7]

Israel's population and economy are too small to allow them to suffer mass casualties. therefore they fight the only way they can (from afar). Plus public perception is everything in israel and they have maintained a very healthy retal policy to keep there regional enemies in check.

Oh don't you worry about that. The United States military and economic aid especially since the 1970's are more than enough, trust me.

As for the rest of the post, top class attempt to justify the unjustifiable. Won't work on people who have eyes and free functioning minds I'm afraid.

 

[Fearless]

But lets not go there. More than 270 killed, I'd like Pro-Israel people to say that they are saddened, just saddened nothing more, it would mean a lot.

I'm pro- Israel and very saddened to see innocent children killed and maimed by Israeli bombs. My kids were actually sickened by the Sky news scenes.

Hamas were pushing for this on the full understanding that their children were nothing more than PR fodder for YOUR comsumption.

THAT is the difference between our cultures.

As Golda Meir said 'When the Arabs love their children more than they hate us...then there will be peace'.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

More terrible pictures in the news again today. Not a good way to start the day after my birthday.

I just hope some sort of stability can be found before Iran has deployable nuclear missiles. A nuclear armed Israel and Iran is just a bomb waiting to go off, and Hamas the likely spark to light the fuse.

 

[Fearless]

More terrible pictures in the news again today. Not a good way to start the day after my birthday.

I just hope some sort of stability can be found before Iran has deployable nuclear missiles. A nuclear armed Israel and Iran is just a bomb waiting to go off, and Hamas the likely spark to light the fuse.

Iran supply Hamas. 4 weeks left for Bush. Interesting times.

 

[Devil_forever]

I'm pro- Israel and very saddened to see innocent children killed and maimed by Israeli bombs. My kids were actually sickened by the Sky news scenes.

Hamas were pushing for this on the full understanding that their children were nothing more than Page Ranking fodder for YOUR comsumption.

THAT is the difference between our cultures.

As Golda Meir said 'When the Arabs love their children more than they hate us...then there will be peace'.

That was the thing that really annoyed me yesterday! why on earth did israel choose to carry out an attack during the time when children returned from school and why did they drop bombs near schools? surely that was avoidable?

You can't really believe that the arabs don't care about their children, especially as you're a parent yourself.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Did you come to this world a couple of years ago mate? you look an utterly clueless person who can write with pretty grammar..

Don't flatter yourself by trying to come across as remotely intelligent. Because judging from you post you really are greener than grass.

It really saddens me to say this but, there is no realistic peaceful political solution that is fair that insures historical justice to the people of this land. You don't come to my house and "conquer" most of it and leave me living in the bathroom and if I shout at you you'd whip me, and after years when we both "get used" to it, I shall agree to let go of what was mine to not get whipped any more. Its the start of it all that you are ignoring for some bizarre reason.

You don't have the slightest clue what you are talking about. You think it's the Israeli's who started the fighting that has gone on for years? go and learn ytou histry befor eiopening your mouth. Furthemore actually grasp what a person is saying. Before coming up with utter nonsesne and claimng some one else but you dreamt it up.

But lets not go there.

No. Lets got there. You seem to have this inane idea violence benefits teh Paletinian in any way.

Contrary to anything that ahs happened every where else on this Planet. That has happened in our history as humans. So I'm dying to see the solution you have to this middle east question.

More than 270 killed, I'd like Pro-Israel people to say that they are saddened, just saddened nothing more, it would mean a lot.

Mean alot to who? You think being merely "saddened" changes the reality on the ground? That senseless violence of fecking Hamas is the one causing all the needless loss of lie of inocent Palestinians repeatedly? Get a fecking grip.

 

[Devil_forever]

Mean alot to who? You think being merely "saddened" changes the reality on the ground? That senseless violence of fecking Hamas is the one causing all the needless loss of lie of inocent Palestinians repeatedly? Get a fecking grip.

You really are a fecking cnut. What he asked for was a bit of sympathy for the dead and you reply with "get a fecking grip". If I ever had the displeasure of meeting a scum bag like you I really would punch you, you fecking heartless prick.

Fearless is Israeli and even he shows his sympathy towards the innocent civilians that have died.

 

[IhabX7]

That was the thing that really annoyed me yesterday! why on earth did israel choose to carry out an attack during the time when children returned from school and why did they drop bombs near schools? surely that was avoidable?

You can't really believe that the arabs don't care about their children, especially as you're a parent yourself.

F16 v man is never a humanitarian peacful act though is it? The fact that children are dying just multiplies the sorrow.

As Golda Meir said 'When the Arabs love their children more than they hate us...then there will be peace'.

If not you will continue killing them. Thats great sense, good on you.

 

[Mihajlovic]

Living with Rockets: Hamas's winning strategy

In order to understand the current state of the Arab-Israeli conflict, one must first understand Hamas. The Hamas charter of 1988 states that "Israel will rise and will remain erect until Islam eliminates it as it had eliminated its predecessors." (www.palestinecenter.org) The epilogue of the Hamas charter reads "Hamas posits Islam as a way of life, it is its faith and its yardstick for judging."

The charter also offers Hamas's perspective on the history of Middle East:

Hamas has learned from the current Zionist invasion which had been preceded by a Crusader invasion from the West; and another one, the Tatars, from the East. And exactly as the Muslims had faced those invasions and planned their removal and defeat, they are able to face the Zionist invasion and defeat it. This will not be difficult for Allah if our intentions are pure and our determination is sincere; if the Muslims draw useful lessons from the experiences of the past, and extricate themselves for the vestiges of the [western] ideological onslaught; and if they follow the traditions of Islam." (Part V, The Testimony of History)

Much of Hamas's Charter is virulently anti-Semitic and uses the Protocols of Elders of Zion as a source to back its ideology and goals.

Indeed, anyone who paints the Arab-Israeli conflict as one that is exclusively territorial, one that will end when Israel returns to the 1967 borders, has failed to take into account that the conflict is a religious one, formulated upon the precepts of Islamic fundamentalism and a hatered of the Jewish people. As the article in the Hamas Charter states, "There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors." (Article 13: Peaceful Solutions, [Peace] Initiatives and International Conferences).

HAMAS's military wing, Izzedeen Al Qassam Brigades, recently published an article on their English website describing the current strategy of Hamas in regard to rocket terror and a possible Israeli response. The article relates to how an Israeli military defense operation in Gaza will best serve the interests of Hamas. Such a response, the Izzedeen article states, will help Hamas gain further support from the Palestinian people. Hamas has time and time again, construed a scenario which depicts the Israeli army intending to fight the Palestinian people and not the terrorists who fire the rockets. And most importantly, the article makes clear that an Israeli military response will garner Israel further international condemnation, giving Hamas the legitimacy it needs to make it "an important regional and international player."

The article also points out that Hamas will no longer recognizes Fatah's Mahmoud Abbas's presidency when it ends on January 9th.

Hamas has proved time and time again that it is willing to sacrifice its own people's basic needs to further its political goals and terrorist agenda.

As the article on Hamas's military wing website goes to show, Hamas's primary objective in the current escalation of rocket attacks is to gain international support as Israelis are forced to respond with either economic or military measures. Of course, one can be critical of the Israeli government's policies in handling the situation. But the fact remains, that as long as Palestinian rockets continued to target and terrorize innocent Israelis, from Sderot to Kiryat Gat, Israel had no choice but to act. And no matter the actions Israel would have taken, they were already calculated to serve Hamas's iron grip on Gaza.

http://cgis.jpost.com/Blogs/fendel/entry/hamas_s_winning_strategy_posted

 

[Mihajlovic]

'Hamas could have prevented massacre'

Hamas could have prevented the "massacre" in the Gaza Strip, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas said Sunday in Cairo.

"We spoke to them and told them 'Please, we ask you not to end the cease-fire. Let it continue,'" Abbas said during a joint press conference with Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Aboul Gheit. "We want to protect the Gaza Strip. We don't want it to be destroyed."

Abbas called on Hamas to renew the cease-fire with Israel to avoid further bloodshed in Gaza.

Aboul Gheit also attacked Hamas, saying the group had prevented people wounded in the Israeli offensive from passing into Egypt to receive medical attention.

"We are waiting for the wounded Palestinians to reach Egypt. They aren't being allowed to go through," he said.

Asked who was to blame for the dire situation in Gaza, the foreign minister replied: "Ask the party that controls Gaza."

He added that the meeting of Arab foreign ministers meeting in Cairo Wednesday should call on Hamas to extend the truce.

 

[IhabX7]

Don't flatter yourself by trying to come across as remotely intelligent. Because judging from you post you really are greener than grass.

You don't have the slightest clue what you are talking about. You think it's the Israeli's who started the fighting that has gone on for years? go and learn ytou histry befor eiopening your mouth. Furthemore actually grasp what a person is saying. Before coming up with utter nonsesne and claimng some one else but you dreamt it up.

No. Lets got there. You seem to have this inane idea violence benefits teh Paletinian in any way.

Contrary to anything that ahs happened every where else on this Planet. That has happened in our history as humans. So I'm dying to see the solution you have to this middle east question.


Mean alot to who? You think being merely "saddened" changes the reality on the ground? That senseless violence of fecking Hamas is the one causing all the needless loss of lie of inocent Palestinians repeatedly? Get a fecking grip.

Suddenly you have loads of spelling mistakes, are you shaking? You absolute wanker.

Go get fed by pro-Israel media as you appear to have been doing for years.

If you heard stories about the middle east conflict, I live this conflict. My parents, and grandparents lived this conflict.

You really have to be clueless twat to not see the light. Its only complicated if you force yourself to not believe the obvious truth.

 

[IhabX7]

Hamas could have prevented the "massacre" in the Gaza Strip, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas said Sunday in Cairo.

"We spoke to them and told them 'Please, we ask you not to end the cease-fire. Let it continue,'" Abbas said during a joint press conference with Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Aboul Gheit. "We want to protect the Gaza Strip. We don't want it to be destroyed."

Abbas called on Hamas to renew the cease-fire with Israel to avoid further bloodshed in Gaza.

Aboul Gheit also attacked Hamas, saying the group had prevented people wounded in the Israeli offensive from passing into Egypt to receive medical attention.

"We are waiting for the wounded Palestinians to reach Egypt. They aren't being allowed to go through," he said.

Asked who was to blame for the dire situation in Gaza, the foreign minister replied: "Ask the party that controls Gaza."
He added that the meeting of Arab foreign ministers meeting in Cairo Wednesday should call on Hamas to extend the truce.

A traitor of his own nation. I hope he gets what he deserves one day.

 

[Mihajlovic]

A traitor of his own nation. I hope he gets what he deserves one day.

He deserves to die because he urged the Hamas not to break the cease-fire?! Because he asked Hamas not to attack Israel first?

 

[Fearless]

He deserves to die because he urged the Hamas not to break the cease-fire?! Because he asked Hamas not to attack Israel first?

There you have it.

 

[IhabX7]

He deserves to die because he urged the Hamas not to break the cease-fire?! Because he asked Hamas not to attack Israel first?

Again, have a memory that is longer than two days. Im really too fecked off today. There are a lot of protests going on, I should be going.

 

[Spoony]

I haven't read the whole thread, but why did Israel retaliate?

Am I being fair, by saying both sides have a lot of cnuts?

 

[Chris H]

You can't really believe that the arabs don't care about their children, especially as you're a parent yourself.

I don't think anyone believes that all Arabs are heartless fiends who care only about death. The problem - one problem, anyway - is that too many religious and political leaders in that part of the world don't feel the same way about their countrymen's children, and wish for them only martyrdom and endless struggle. I am reminded of the Al-Aqsa TV cartoon linked on the last page, with the faux-Mickey Mouse teaching kids about the value of martyrdom and the need to drive the Israelis into the sea, or some such. And the youtube clips you can link to if you start browsing from that one, like with the 11 year-old Palestinian kids on a panel show talking about how much they love the idea of being a martyr, and seeking happiness and political rights not now, but in the afterlife. They don't come up with these ideas themselves.

i think even if you make jerusalem and that whole area an irradiated wasteland, those two will still be fighting over it with no regard to radiation poisoning.

I disagree. The remaining Israelis would do what Jews did for centuries - pick up what few pieces are left and go somewhere else. And while I think most Palestinians would have a similarly practical approach, I can't say the same about the leaders and ideologues of Hamas or Hezbollah. And their backers in Iran care less about the fate of a few Palestinian kids than about the greater struggle to export their Revolution and gain influence in the region. Palestinians are fecked, and they're going to stay fecked, because their leadership stinks and their "friends" in the Arab world profit politically and ideologically from their ongoing misery.

 

[Sultan]

I haven't read the whole thread, but why did Israel retaliate?

Am I being fair, by saying both sides have a lot of cnuts?

As long as Israel force the Palestinians to force to live in sub-human conditions, and carry on their expansionists policy the rockets will continue to launch. The rockets give Israel justification to continue it's present actions. This has been going on for decades.

So yes, there are c***ts on both sides. You can add the USA, and some of the Arab countries to the list of those being c***ts who have no wish or desire to stop this carnage with their support.

The situation/bombings yesterday will have created many suicide more bombers around the world. We're all losers.

 

[Spoony]

As long as Israel force the Palestinians to force to live in sub-human conditions, and carry on their expansionists policy the rockets will continue to launch. The rockets give Israel justification to continue it's present actions. This has been going on for decades.

So yes, there are c***ts on both sides. You can add the USA, and some of the Arab countries to the list of those being c***ts who have no wish or desire to stop this carnage with their support.

The situation/bombings yesterday will have created many suicide more bombers around the world. We're all losers.

It doesn't really make sense to me. If you look at the population growth, Palestinians/Arab Israelis will outnumber Israelis in future. Makes sense to create a homeland for the Palestinians. There's no way Israel could afford to be democratic otherwise. Probably sounds puerile mind you. And I'm no expert.

And I'd like Vida Red to strap a bomb to his head and fight for the Palestinian cause. It'd save us the effort of reading his posts in here.

 

[Sultan]

And I'd like Vida Red to strap a bomb to his head and fight for the Palestinian cause. It'd save us the effort of reading his posts in here.

Vida Red is now banned for the CE forum, along with Alex.

 

[Spoony]

Even better.

Although, I still liked my strapping a bomb to his head idea.

 

[Fitzjames]

Looks like you have what it takes to run for Hamas next leadership. That wish, coupled with disregard for the lives of their own, sums up the required qualifications.

I hope that the Palestinians understand that despite past events there is a large majority among Israelis that see a two-state solution as the only one guarenteeing something resembling normal life in this region. Unfortunately, I don't think the Palestinians have reached that stage and we'll probably have to go through several rounds of violence in order to reach the same conclusions that can be reached at this point in time.

It's actually quite tragic how the Palestinians end up caught in the hate-campaigns of bellends of your type. A couple of Palestinian journalists interviewed from Gaza yesterday sound much less hysterical and more relaistic that you and your internet-analyst colleagues.

BTW, according to Palestinian officials 15 of the 230 dead in Gaza were unarmed civilians. Really tragic, and one doesn't have to be a brainless Jordanian shithead to feel angry for the needless loss of innocent lives. What Jordanians and other politically-primitive specimens fail to understand is that the first commitment of a democratically elected government is to defend it's civilians. Under the constant missile fire on Southern Israel during the last couple of weeks the Israeli government was left with no other option. Considering Gaza is the most heavily populated area in the world no other country in the world would have done a better job in pinpointing the culprits.

Like I say all these threads go where extremists take the threads.
Put up enough smoke and we lose sight of the initial post because of the usual "what about" type of post.
And the Defender of his Country or Political View will feel a kind of smugness that he has "killed" the thread by diverting it.

Even if the poster makes a feeble attempt at qualifying hatred by suggesting that the Jordanians for example are only "primitive" in a political way but people just like him in every other way.........it seems a dangerous road to go down. There was a time when racists tried to justify their actions on the grounds that the time wasnt right....the targets of their racism were not just as far along the evolutionary chain. That God or Nature had intended this division between the evolved and the evolving.

There are bad precedents in Europe also for this kind of thing. Say in the period 1939 to 1945 many of us lost relatives to end that sort of thinking.
Disappointing to find the attitude still prevails in the most unlikely quarters.

 

[Red Dreams]

I haven't read the whole thread, but why did Israel retaliate?

Am I being fair, by saying both sides have a lot of cnuts?

Israel has the right to defend itself like any other country...and that is the problem....the Palestinians don't recognize that Israel have a right to exist.

at periods in this conflict Israel has made concessions but the real issue is the rampant unemployment among the Palestinians. what is the point of having your own region/country when there is no work....the scousers would feel right at home there I know....but that's besides the point.

And Israel have a real fear of allowing Palestinians working in their territory....which is understandable.

imo they will never have a 'real peace'....the target has to be 'no war'....for a start.

 

[Fitzjames]

Leaving Extremists to one side, I tend to think that my own analysis last night was pretty accurate.
The Palestine-Arab dispute will end badly.
Victory for one side or the other will be a hollow thing but naturally enough the ordinary decent people on both sides would prefer a peaceful resolution. Failing that.....naturally enough they would prefer victory for their own side.

The extremists tend to think that they can avert being destroyed by expanding the conflict to a global war. A massive Jihad against Europe (Partisans will say there already is but its contained). Massive direct intervention by USA to protect its ally (Partisans will say there already is but it is contained).

And frankly in the real world outside the claustrophobic Middle East, there is no appetite to get involved. The Extremists over estimate the committment of their "allies".

Effectively two or three nukes will destroy the area.
And presumably there will be survivors...of sorts.
Difficult really to predict an area of the world which would really without condition welcome the refugees

 

[Kaos]

Another thing I dont understand is why Israel dont just send ground troops in. Olmert himself said he wanted to prevent a humanitarian disaster, then surely sending troops in would have prevented such a thing happening especially opposed to blindly firing missiles from the air which is sure to kill hundreds of civillians (accidentally or deliberately, it is debatable).

In the end its pretty hypocritical since firing missiles from the air is just as cowardly as launching mortars randomly towards Israeli citizens.