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::sonny::

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A huge amount of confirmation bias kicking in on this thread and to be fair its on both sides.
I watched his last game closely because I wanted to check out the things people say he is doing that they dont like.
First thing I noticed is that whenever he did something realy well there wasnt a peep on the match day thread, his first wayward pass resulted in a torrent of people slagging him off. I think people because they dont like him only ever see the mistakes.
I kept an eye out for him and the charge of hiding in midfield. I did notice one thing thats happening that could confuse people who havent played football at a decent level and its easy to see once you know the signs. He does slide sideways when our defenders are on the ball, to some it might look like he is hiding, to others they will understand as he slides sideways he drags his marker and creates a channel for the ball to be passed forward by our defenders. Its easy to spot when this is deliberate, he will not show and open body shape to our defenders as he moves, if he does want the ball he opens up with an angle that shows he can move forward on receiving. I think its something he does well.
The other glaring admission from his critics for the last game was any recognition of his involvement in our winning goal. He makes a shapr pass back inside while moving in an opposite direction which then enabled Greenwood to switch the ball quickly. Its not an easy pass, its technically difficult and also requires the vision and awareness to spot and complete the pass. However absolutely no mention of this pass by any of his detractors.
Pretty funny really.
He played as a Right CB in a defence of 3? (For Scotland)
 
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Bebestation

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I've seen him make a good pass for United that beats the defenders and gets to the attacker but the attacker has a poor first touch and messes it all up.

Sure Mctominay only does it maybe once a game - but still.
 

Cnaiür urs Skiötha

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It is interesting how much praise McTominay gets.
Players who played with or against him mention how great and powerful he is, being everywhere across the pitch and that it is really difficult to get him off the ball.
Also Scholes highlighted once again in a recent interview that he sees him as our best midfielder and how he should be our starting number 6.

There must be something in it although I have not seen enough which makes me believe he should be a starting player for Manchester United as long as we have ambitions to win PL and CL.

So that means he is not used properly to play to his strengths. I would like to see him with Donny for a few games as I think they might compliment each other to see if this could be the solution in case Pogba leaves and Matic retires/leaves as well.
 

roonster09

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It is interesting how much praise McTominay gets.
Players who played with or against him mention how great and powerful he is, being everywhere across the pitch and that it is really difficult to get him off the ball.
Also Scholes highlighted once again in a recent interview that he sees him as our best midfielder and how he should be our starting number 6.

There must be something in it although I have not seen enough which makes me believe he should be a starting player for Manchester United as long as we have ambitions to win PL and CL.

So that means he is not used properly to play to his strengths. I would like to see him with Donny for a few games as I think they might compliment each other to see if this could be the solution in case Pogba leaves and Matic retires/leaves as well.
Maybe I missed this, which opposition player praised McTominay?

Also it's interesting to see Scholes picking McTominay as our best midfielder when McTominay lacks the most important attribute for a CM and something that set Scholes apart from many CMs, availability for teammates to pass. Most of the best CMs are always on the move, making themselves available for passes. This is something McTominay struggles with.
 

11101

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I kept an eye out for him and the charge of hiding in midfield. I did notice one thing thats happening that could confuse people who havent played football at a decent level and its easy to see once you know the signs. He does slide sideways when our defenders are on the ball, to some it might look like he is hiding, to others they will understand as he slides sideways he drags his marker and creates a channel for the ball to be passed forward by our defenders. Its easy to spot when this is deliberate, he will not show and open body shape to our defenders as he moves, if he does want the ball he opens up with an angle that shows he can move forward on receiving. I think its something he does well.
This would have some merit if he didn't do it all the time, or if there was another player in position to receive the pass into the space he opens up. You're right that good players make movements to open up space but they don't do it if there's nobody in that space. It's also not often a great idea doing it in deep midfield and forcing a long pass through the middle of the pitch from the centre backs. For my eyes he's a player who only wants the ball when he feels totally comfortable to receive it and that is not what a good midfielder should do.

Busquets last night was a reminder of what a great defensive midfielder is all about. He is always getting himself into a position to take the ball and his teammates rely on him as their get out of jail free card when under pressure. If McTominay was a bit more like that he would be more effective, and Fred wouldn't be getting himself in impossible situations quite so often. It would improve both of them.
 

Stack

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This would have some merit if he didn't do it all the time, or if there was another player in position to receive the pass into the space he opens up. You're right that good players make movements to open up space but they don't do it if there's nobody in that space. It's also not often a great idea doing it in deep midfield and forcing a long pass through the middle of the pitch from the centre backs. For my eyes he's a player who only wants the ball when he feels totally comfortable to receive it and that is not what a good midfielder should do.

Busquets last night was a reminder of what a great defensive midfielder is all about. He is always getting himself into a position to take the ball and his teammates rely on him as their get out of jail free card when under pressure. If McTominay was a bit more like that he would be more effective, and Fred wouldn't be getting himself in impossible situations quite so often. It would improve both of them.
I watched the game specifically to see what he was doing with regards to this often touted criticism. Its become one of those thing people will simply parrot without actually having a clue as to what they are talking about. Its like how everyone stays perfectly silent when he does really good work but the first moment he makes a mistake then its a torrent of complaining. There is a massive amount of confirmation bias happening with the complaints. its absolutely exactly like the Fletcher complaints.
To be blunt I think your talking shite.
 

11101

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I watched the game specifically to see what he was doing with regards to this often touted criticism. Its become one of those thing people will simply parrot without actually having a clue as to what they are talking about. Its like how everyone stays perfectly silent when he does really good work but the first moment he makes a mistake then its a torrent of complaining. There is a massive amount of confirmation bias happening with the complaints. its absolutely exactly like the Fletcher complaints.
To be blunt I think your talking shite.
Well to be equally blunt, McTominay has less touches and less passes of all the starting midfielders of all our rivals. And not by a little, in some cases he's touching the ball literally half as much as them during a game. Whatever the reason he does it, we cant afford to keep carrying him.
 

Stack

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Well to be equally blunt, McTominay has less touches and less passes of all the starting midfielders of all our rivals. And not by a little, in some cases he's touching the ball literally half as much as them during a game. Whatever the reason he does it, we cant afford to keep carrying him.
In will take Paul Scholes opinion on McT any day of the week over yours but carry on with your confirmation bias efforts.
 

11101

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In will take Paul Scholes opinion on McT any day of the week over yours but carry on with your confirmation bias efforts.
The man whose coaching career lasted a month? Good luck with that...

Ever heard him as a TV pundit? Some players just don't know why they were so good. He is one of them.
 

Zen86

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Personally I like him. He's got all the tools to be a very good midfielder. Just needs to remove some of the sloppiness out of his game, particularly his short passing.
 

Augustus Gloop

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Maybe I missed this, which opposition player praised McTominay?

Also it's interesting to see Scholes picking McTominay as our best midfielder when McTominay lacks the most important attribute for a CM and something that set Scholes apart from many CMs, availability for teammates to pass. Most of the best CMs are always on the move, making themselves available for passes. This is something McTominay struggles with.
Billy Gilmour said he’s the best midfielder he’s played against not so long ago. Gilmour is class as well. Yep - they’re both Scottish, but it’s a quote and fact nonetheless!

https://www.teamtalk.com/news/chels...ames-shock-man-utd-star-as-trickiest-opponent
 

lost7

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In will take Paul Scholes opinion on McT any day of the week over yours but carry on with your confirmation bias efforts.
It is a fact that he gets on the ball very little for a central midfielder. He needs to impose hikself in games a lot more if he wants to really stake a claim on that position for the future.

Personally I don't think he's good enough to be a starter week in week out and should be the first player to be upgraded on in the next transfer market
 

IrishRedDevil

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MrBrightside1989

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Hoping to see Mctominay back in midfield alongside Gilmour and McGinn tonight. I think they would be a well balanced, hard working 3 who will cause the opposition some problems.

Clarke will likely play Macgregor in midfield but surely Hanley, Hendry and Tierney will all start in defence so Mctominay may be benched?
 

Vault Dweller

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McT was very good at beating his man on Saturday and getting us up the pitch, something I want to see him do a lot more.

Hoping he goes back into midfield tonight with Gilmour and McGregor, with McGinn perhaps a bit further forward since there will be no Adams. But he may also be benched if we have the back 3 back to normal as the midfield played well at the weekend. Hope he plays but not so sure.
 

MUFC OK

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It is a fact that he gets on the ball very little for a central midfielder. He needs to impose hikself in games a lot more if he wants to really stake a claim on that position for the future.

Personally I don't think he's good enough to be a starter week in week out and should be the first player to be upgraded on in the next transfer market
For me his positional sense is shocking and his passing isn't good enough. Apart from that he's an entirely decent player.

We don't need another reminder of how far off the required standards him and Fred are to play in holding midfield but we will certainly get one when we face Liverpool in a couple of weeks.
 

JoaquinJoaquin

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Personally I like him. He's got all the tools to be a very good midfielder. Just needs to remove some of the sloppiness out of his game, particularly his short passing.
Really don't understand opinions like this when he is poor positionally, has a very limited passing ability and an average tackler. Aside from his height he really doesn't bring much to the team.
 

MUFC OK

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Really don't understand opinions like this when he is poor positionally, has a very limited passing ability and an average tackler. Aside from his height he really doesn't bring much to the team.
Typical academy/british player bias. He's not good enough.

Not sure how many times he has to stink the place out before some realise this. Look at his average rating on here. People don't mark him down for fun.
 

Zen86

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Really don't understand opinions like this when he is poor positionally, has a very limited passing ability and an average tackler. Aside from his height he really doesn't bring much to the team.
I don't believe he's poor positionally, and I think he's actually got a decent passing range having demonstrated an ability to play balls through the opposition defence and across the pitch. His short passing can be sloppy however and he's prone to making errors which he needs to cut out, and he's obviously not the technical wizard type. He has a bit of everything without excelling at anything in particular.

Typical academy/british player bias. He's not good enough.

Not sure how many times he has to stink the place out before some realise this. Look at his average rating on here. People don't mark him down for fun.
Not good enough for what? He's not going to win the Balon D'or nor is he going to single-handedly run the midfield, but does he have the potential to sit within a title winning side? Of course he does.
 

MUFC OK

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Not good enough for what? He's not going to win the Balon D'or nor is he going to single-handedly run the midfield, but does he have the potential to sit within a title winning side? Of course he does.
I'm not sure how you can reach that conclusion when he and Fred get overrun by the midfields of the likes of Villa, Everton, Southampton, let alone City, Liverpool.

Games are won and lost in midfield and I can't see those two winning us many games against teams in the top half.
 

Zen86

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I'm not sure how you can reach that conclusion when he and Fred get overrun by the midfields of the likes of Villa, Everton, Southampton, let alone City, Liverpool.

Games are won and lost in midfield and I can't see those two winning us many games against teams in the top half.
Our midfield is overrun because Fred and McTominay aren't a particularly complementary combination (although they're the best we have), and they're effectively left to fend for themselves considering Bruno practically plays as a second striker, our wide forwards offer very little support in the middle, and we have Wan Bissaka as one of the wingbacks.
 

Augustus Gloop

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McT was very good at beating his man on Saturday and getting us up the pitch, something I want to see him do a lot more.

Hoping he goes back into midfield tonight with Gilmour and McGregor, with McGinn perhaps a bit further forward since there will be no Adams. But he may also be benched if we have the back 3 back to normal as the midfield played well at the weekend. Hope he plays but not so sure.
I will hold my hands up if I’m wrong but I’m pretty sure Scott is recognised as a guaranteed starter no matter who is fit to play in defence. None of the other out and out CB’s have his ability on the ball.

Midfield is a different story, with McGinn and Gilmour staples. Still think Scott is a bit better than McGregor though.
 

Bwuk

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Hoping to see Mctominay back in midfield alongside Gilmour and McGinn tonight. I think they would be a well balanced, hard working 3 who will cause the opposition some problems.

Clarke will likely play Macgregor in midfield but surely Hanley, Hendry and Tierney will all start in defence so Mctominay may be benched?
McTominay won't get benched.
 

MUFC OK

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Our midfield is overrun because Fred and McTominay aren't a particularly complementary combination (although they're the best we have), and they're effectively left to fend for themselves considering Bruno practically plays as a second striker, our wide forwards offer very little support in the middle, and we have Wan Bissaka as one of the wingbacks.
I'm not sure how any of that makes McTominay "good enough to sit within a title winning side", unless your manager is SAF or someone of comparable calibre. Ours isn't.
 

Zen86

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I'm not sure how any of that makes McTominay "good enough to sit within a title winning side", unless your manager is SAF or someone of comparable calibre. Ours isn't.
It doesn't. It means the problems with our midfield are deeper than scapegoating individual players.
 

MUFC OK

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It doesn't. It means the problems with our midfield are deeper than scapegoating individual players.
Of course they are, I'm not saying he's the sole reason for our current plight and think someone like a Klopp could get the best out of him.

Our biggest problem is the man who's picking unbalanced teams with little to no identity on the pitch.
 
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We lost the midfield entirely when he came on for Matic, it was almost instant. He was also poor for their third goal by letting the assister have too much space to work with in the box
 
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Roboc7

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Rightly dropped, then an awful cameo but probably still starts next two games as Ole starts throwing shit at the wall hoping something will stick.
 

MvG

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Backed into his own six yard box for the goal. Ran by the ball again. Warrior.
 

chiz2kul

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Billy Gilmour said he’s the best midfielder he’s played against not so long ago. Gilmour is class as well. Yep - they’re both Scottish, but it’s a quote and fact nonetheless!

https://www.teamtalk.com/news/chels...ames-shock-man-utd-star-as-trickiest-opponent
really? Thats your source? Gilmour the 20 year old with all of his experience? C'mon.

Scott is a nothing player. What does he actually do? His range of passing, positional awareness, etc is mediocre. Imagine bringing him on when you're down and expecting a goal. Madness. IMO not good enough to even be on the bench.
 

Diamond Chap

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Everyone is thinking Mctominay is shit because he is currently playing like the main midfielder of Manchester United when he shouldn't be.

I'm sure the thoughts wouldnt be much different with Fletcher at 24/25 playing next to Fred for Ole or even Phil Neville doing the same.

Mctominay shouldn't be the main midfielder at United. He'd have much more appropriate love if he was playing like Fletcher or Phil Neville were used by SAF.

Instead he is being used as a major player - getting major blame.

I'm seeing news articles about how this John Mginn from Aston Villa is SAF'S dreams midfielder from the whole of the Premier League. It just kind of says alot.
John McGinn would walk into this Utd team and secure his spot.
 

Diamond Chap

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really? Thats your source? Gilmour the 20 year old with all of his experience? C'mon.

Scott is a nothing player. What does he actually do? His range of passing, positional awareness, etc is mediocre. Imagine bringing him on when you're down and expecting a goal. Madness. IMO not good enough to even be on the bench.
More useful than Pogba for less than 10% of Pogba's salary.