Sell before you buy - so who is off?

[Hughes35]

People on here with 8,9 or 10 players leaving need to get a grip. Still talk of one of Jones or Smalling being sold along with Miki, Mata and Herrera. Even after the former have both been very very good. The complete maximum that would leave (And rightly so) is;

Carrick - Retired
Ibra - More or less retired
Shaw - Pushed out (Sold)
One of Darmien / Young - Maybe (Sold)
Maybe a curve ball - Miki or Mata or a centre half (Most likely Rojo)

So 2 to retire and 2 or 3 sold is the absolute maximum IMO and I count the next two transfer windows in this.

 

[saik]

I guess Shaw will be most obvious and the first guy to be sold. Mkhi, Mata and Herrera have been awfully poor this season. Evaluate their performances till the end of season and if they don't improve no reason to hold on to them anymore. I actually like Mata very much but he just isn't contributing to the team anymore like he used to. What happened to Mata and his freekicks btw? He used to be amazing at them when he was at Chelsea. I remember De Gea pulling off a world- class save off his freekick against us once. Since he's come to United I haven't seen him take at-least 1 quality freekick.

Upgrading the fullback options is absolutely necessary imo. Can't believe a club of our stature has let itself come into a situation where 2 32-year old converted wingers are our first choice fullbacks. I don't even know if there are any good fullback options are available out there.

 

[ROFLUTION]

Wages approx in GBP:

Andreas Pereira 21 £10,000 Last year (2018)
Phil Jones 25 £50,000 2 Years (2019)
Matteo Darmian 27 £60,000 2 Years (2019)
Anthony Martial 21 £65,000 2 Years (2019)
Marcos Rojo 27 £70,000 2 Years (2019)
Luke Shaw 22 £70,000 Last year (2018)
Victor Lindelof (new signing) 22 £75,000 4 Years (2021)
Daley Blind 27 £75,000 Last year (2018)
Chris Smalling 27 £80,000 2 Years (2019)
Michael Carrick 36 £80,000 Last year (2018)
Marouane Fellaini 30 £80,000 Last year (2018)
Jesse Lingard 24 £100,000 4 Years (2021)
Antonio Valencia 31 £100,000 2 Years (2019)
Ashley Young 32 £110,000 Last year (2018)
Juan Mata 29 £140,000 Last year (2018)
Henrikh Mkhitaryan 28 £140,000 3 Years (2020)

Surprised to see how many players under 30 are running out. There's literally no resale value in these. Maybe 20-30 m gbp for two players at best.

... Which is also why the article is a bit strange - there's not much money to scrap in from picking out two random players on that list. Its more an offload than a sale, to make room for a new players wage.

 

[wolvored]

I hope this is true and Jose starts selling players. He has offered far too much leeway to some players and have overrated mediocre talents like Fellaini and Young. I hope Shaw is sent on loan. Maybe next summer he can go all out in selling many players. Darmian, Mata(love him as a person), Young, even I would say Smalling. It's sad he will never sell Fellaini and with him Jose will always be inclined ot put him and we start lumping the ball around without playing proper football when chasing a goal.

I think Fellaini will go as he wants to leave as he wont sign a new contract. In January he will be able to sign a pre contract agreement with a foreign side.

 

[wolvored]

Whatever you think of the Glazers and I was against them taking over; they didnt put the big bucks in, in Fergies era because we were regularly winning things. Once he left they had to. Now they are probably looking at it, and thinking we cant keep throwing money at an ever bigger squad, and still playing the same catchup game, and excitement is still dire. Remember tomorrows foreign 'fan' will support the most exciting team who are always at the top. They or someone who is advising them, may also use this to take the pressure off the manager, so it looks like the club want to get rid of certain players, rather than Mourinho.

 

[Zlatattack]

what do you want us to buy a whole new team each player at around 90 million? and that the only way we can win? thats just silly.

That's what city have done. Look at the price tags on thier first team.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

Hire pep guardiola , he'll sell 10 of those players and bring new ones. What excuses are we talking about here ? People seem to be forgetting what an incredible start to the season we had before pogba and fellani and carrick all got injured and scored secnd highest goals without hoofing and also are top in ucl group won 4 since 2012.

the excuses are simple thier is al ways a reason why we arnt playing attacking football always another excuse, when the bottom line is injurys or not the team that has been put out over the past few weeks are capable of playing far better attacking football then we are seeing, yet all we here are excuses as how we have to soend another few 100 million.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

That's what city have done. Look at the price tags on thier first team.

its quite simlar to the price tag on our first team

 

[poacher]

I think the squad has too much quantity and not enough quality. I would remove the poorer players and also the decent but not quite good enough players,

I would like to see the following leave next summer:

Shaw
Darmain
Smalling
Carrick
Zlatan
Mika
Mata
Lingard
Blind

I would like to see the following brought in:

Laporte
Manolas (Free)
Ghoulam (Free).
Jorginho
Fekir
Leon Bailey
Fabinho (RB)

Lindelof earns a reprieve only because he's got to be given a chance to develop even if it's only to onsell. Young gets to stay as a utility player to cover fullback and wing positions. I don't rate Fellaini but he is a useful plan B. Savic would be a massive upgrade on Fellaini but given the squad, improvements would likely cost around 240m before player sales I doubt the board would authorise another 60m spent on Savic. Selling most of the deadwood in the squad would reduce our wage bill drastically. Most of the players I would like brought in are not marquee players nor superstars just good quality skilled players like they have at Man City. I doubt Jose would undertake such a radical shakeup in the squad and I am not even sure if it's realistic to do so but I think it is exactly what we need.

I would do the radical shakeup in the summer, not January as drastic changes in the squad could derail our season.

 

[prtk0811]

the excuses are simple thier is al ways a reason why we arnt playing attacking football always another excuse, when the bottom line is injurys or not the team that has been put out over the past few weeks are capable of playing far better attacking football then we are seeing, yet all we here are excuses as how we have to soend another few 100 million.

What makes you think so? Chelsea have far better midfeild and attack than ours when they have all the players fit and we are missing our key players , the sooner fans realize that the better, They can control our midfeild and defend eaisily with the likes of kante bakayoko and fabregas who provides the passing range and hazard who provides creativity without loosing the ball. Alonso azpi are top level defenders too. Liverpool have a fully functional midfeild and attack as a whole, their defense is their problem but they control the ball very well . Tottenham is a very hard working team with fitter and faster players with better wingers and playmakers than we have and also a more polished striker.

We with injuries loose the midfeild battle against every big team if we play an open game, Nither team out their plays an open game in big matches. Tottenham defend with 6-7 players too but have better movement and passing on the counters as erikson and ali link very well and their defenders can play good passes from the back. Our midfeild and defense press has been our strenght and most important for our team functioning which goes of the water when we miss crucial creative players. And then the likes of mkh who go missing does not help.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

The story smacks of bullshit. Why would United go from boasting at the start of Woodwards relationship with LVG that we can comfortably spend 300m a window to this?,

 

[Kapardin]

Hire pep guardiola , he'll sell 10 of those players and bring new ones. What excuses are we talking about here ? People seem to be forgetting what an incredible start to the season we had before pogba and fellani and carrick all got injured and scored secnd highest goals without hoofing and also are top in ucl group won 4 since 2012.

It's not about the manager. Jose would buy as much as Guardiola does, if he is allowed to.

Our board has kept on average players at stupidly huge wages, and they are unable to offload some of them. As a result, it is putting a constraint on our spending. Even for the genuinely talented players like Pogba, the wages are still higher than what he would earn at say, Chelsea.

Would Guardiola be able to offload Young, Valencia, Blind, Shaw, Darmian, Lingard, Mata, Herrera all in one window for a reasonable price? Maybe the latter two as they have some quality, but Darmian, Blind and Valencia won't go for much and the English players would be offered only to English clubs who would want them on the cheap. And United are not run like City to not care about how much we get for them.

If the loss of just 2 players (Pogba and Fellaini) results in a disintegration of our playing style and scoring abilities to the extent we have witnessed, then it means our squad is dangerously thin on quality.

 

[poacher]

Probably not, seeing as he actually spent more money than him in the summer.

That's not true City spent over 200m whereas we spent around 141m.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

What makes you think so? Chelsea have far better midfeild and attack than ours when they have all the players fit and we are missing our key players , the sooner fans realize that the better, They can control our midfeild and defend eaisily with the likes of kante bakayoko and fabregas who provides the passing range and hazard who provides creativity without loosing the ball. Alonso azpi are top level defenders too. Liverpool have a fully functional midfeild and attack as a whole, their defense is their problem but they control the ball very well . Tottenham is a very hard working team with fitter and faster players with better wingers and playmakers than we have and also a more polished striker.

We with injuries loose the midfeild battle against every big team if we play an open game, Nither team out their plays an open game in big matches. Tottenham defend with 6-7 players too but have better movement and passing on the counters as erikson and ali link very well and their defenders can play good passes from the back. Our midfeild and defense press has been our strenght and most important for our team functioning which goes of the water when we miss crucial creative players. And then the likes of mkh who go missing does not help.

i personly think us an chelsea are pretty even maxed even on saturday, they just seemd to have a plan going forward while we did not, Chelsea played to the strenghs of their attackers while we didn't, chelsea looked well drilled in attack while we didnt.

even if you think our players arn't good enough, they are still capable of attacking better then we did on saturday using the correct tactics that play to these players strenghs.

 

[prtk0811]

It's not about the manager. Jose would buy as much as Guardiola does, if he is allowed to.

Our board has kept on average players at stupidly huge wages, and they are unable to offload some of them. As a result, it is putting a constraint on our spending. Even for the genuinely talented players like Pogba, the wages are still higher than what he would earn at say, Chelsea.

Would Guardiola be able to offload Young, Valencia, Blind, Shaw, Darmian, Lingard, Mata, Herrera all in one window for a reasonable price? Maybe the latter two as they have some quality, but Darmian, Blind and Valencia won't go for much and the English players would be offered only to English clubs who would want them on the cheap. And United are not run like City to not care about how much we get for them.

If the loss of just 2 players (Pogba and Fellaini) results in a disintegration of our playing style and scoring abilities to the extent we have witnessed, then it means our squad is dangerously thin on quality.

Carrick was supposed to come in to provide quality and he was injured too, while Andreas pereirea went on loan selfishly against clubs and mourinhos wishes.

 

[Massive Spanner]

That's not true City spent over 200m whereas we spent around 141m.

it is true, City's NET spend was less than ours.

 

[JASR]

Can we stop wittering about City being a bottomless pit of money.
The businesses generate profit, therefore the ‘pit’ is nowself sustaining.

Back OT:
If United have issues with income vs outgoings , then they are probably paying the price for last summer
United sold 1 - Januzaj 7.65m
They offloaded Rooney.

City sold 10 - 80m
They also offloaded 5 others from the wage bill.

Offset that against the eye watering incomings of each team and the amount of red ink splashed on uniteds accounts must have scared the glazers and their dividend.

No wonder this season is rumoured to be tightening the belts time.

 

[Ramshock]

Lindelof, Mkhitaryan, Darmian, Shaw. Can't think of any others.

Lindelof and Mkhi..fecking wise up.

Hasnt Jose gotten rid of at least a dozen players and got BFS and Rooney off the wages somewhat? Looks like the Glazers may be starting to live up to the pantomime villain role.

 

[devilish]

RB: Darmian out, Henrichs in
LB: Shaw out, Tierney in, Blind out, Ghoulam in
DM: Carrick out, Dendoncker in,
MC: Fellaini out, leon goretzka in

AMR: Mata out, Bailey in
AML: Mkhitaryan out, Griezmann in

 

[RedTillI'mDead]

I wonder where that story has come from... deary me, trouble at the top.

Probably more a statement of squad size, certainly not a financial issue!

 

[Mcking]

RB: Darmian out, Henrichs in
LB: Shaw out, Tierney in, Blind out, Ghoulam in
DM: Carrick out, Dendoncker in,
MC: Fellaini out, leon goretzka in

AMR: Mata out, Bailey in
AML: Mkhitaryan out, Griezmann in

That doesn't look good for Tierney. Ghoulam will likely be first choice and he is ?26. Will probably stall Tierney's career. One LB will do.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Lindelof and Mkhi..fecking wise up.

Hasnt Jose gotten rid of at least a dozen players and got BFS and Rooney off the wages somewhat? Looks like the Glazers may be starting to live up to the pantomime villain role.

Those are the players I would like to see leave. Realistically those two will stay.

Perhaps the Glazer's are unhappy with Mourinho always demanding more money and more power?

 

[Water Melon]

Can we stop wittering about City being a bottomless pit of money.
The businesses generate profit, therefore the ‘pit’ is nowself sustaining.

Back OT:
If United have issues with income vs outgoings , then they are probably paying the price for last summer
United sold 1 - Januzaj 7.65m
They offloaded Rooney.

City sold 10 - 80m
They also offloaded 5 others from the wage bill.

Offset that against the eye watering incomings of each team and the amount of red ink splashed on uniteds accounts must have scared the glazers and their dividend.

No wonder this season is rumoured to be tightening the belts time.

Hear, hear. Top post.

 

[devilish]

That doesn't look good for Tierney. Ghoulam will likely be first choice and he is ?26. Will probably stall Tierney's career. One LB will do.

That's a rather outdated way of seeing it.

a- Ghoulam is a decent player but he's not Maldini. If he works hard and he keeps improving then Tierney will get his fair shot to a first team place.
b- United compete on 4 fronts (CL, EPL, League cup and FA cup). No one accused Cole of stalling Ole's career. Same thing.

In my opinion we don't have a LB. Shaw had failed big time with us, Blind is too slow to play as LB, Rojo would play as LB as well as I would and Darmian is painfully average. We need 2 players there.

 

[Ramshock]

Those are the players I would like to see leave. Realistically those two will stay.

Perhaps the Glazer's are unhappy with Mourinho always demanding more money and more power?

Hoe can you be taken seriously by wanting rid of a brand new player and Mkhi?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Penny pinching?

3rd highest net spend in Europe in the last few years and the highest wage bill in the PL.

How exactly is that penny pinching?

It's obviously not.

I don't see why we didn't take a decision on LB before. We've got Darmian, Shaw and Blind, none of whom the manager apparently rates. And then out of nowhere young becomes first choice. Just weird as feck. If we're weak in that position like everyone seems to think two of those should have gone this last summer.

 

[Eckers99]

Herrera, Mata, Mkhitaryan, Fellaini...

These are good fecking players.

Jesus.

Good but not good enough. We could improve on at least 3 of them based on performances over the last 12 months.

 

[Dan_F]

The main issue is how many of our purchases recently have just become squad/utility players. We should be buying first 11 players and padding the squad with players like Young, who used to be first choice, and younger players like TFM and Pereria.

Realistically we've got Bailly, Pogba, Matic, Lukaku who command first 11 spots from our signings in the last 2/3years. Lindelof, Darmian, Blind, Herrera, Mata, Mkhi, Depay, Schneiderlin etc are all no more than squad players, some have had good periods, but overall not really done much. whether that's down to the scouting or players not living up to potential make your own mind up.

The fact we were chasing a left winger all summer when we had 2 very good players competing for a spot there is bizarre. Especially when the right wing is completely void of quality. To sign Lindelof and leave LB is just as inexcusable.

All things considered we're actually having a decent season, so I'm definitely not having a go at Jose, but there needs to be some kind of structure in place behind him long term for recruiting.

 

[DanNistelrooy]

We can't just get rid of half of the squad like some are suggesting. Being realistic I think something like:

Darmian - don't see what he adds that a Tuanzebe or Fosu-Mensah couldn't
Shaw - pains me to say but I think it will be a good move for all if he moved on. New LB needed
Carrick - will be surprised if he's here next season. Saying that I wouldn't mind him getting a few games soon to give Matic a rest. Needs replacing, preferably with a young understudy for Matic.
One of Mata or Miki - Both of these players are flattering to deceive this season. I think we have place for one of them in the squad but not both. My guess is Mata is let go. Needs replacing with a top quality winger with the ability to beat a man and deliver good quality into the box.

 

[Mcking]

That's a rather outdated way of seeing it.

a- Ghoulam is a decent player but he's not Maldini. If he works hard and he keeps improving then Tierney will get his fair shot to a first team place.
b- United compete on 4 fronts (CL, EPL, League cup and FA cup). No one accused Cole of stalling Ole's career. Same thing.

In my opinion we don't have a LB. Shaw had failed big time with us, Blind is too slow to play as LB, Rojo would play as LB as well as I would and Darmian is painfully average. We need 2 players there.

Fair enough.

 

[sun_tzu]

I think we are goinng to have to seriousy start considering the homegrown element in our buying

For the CL we will have to have 8 players who were developed in the Uk - 4 of which were developed by the club

If the PL get their own way we will have to have 12 in the league (up from 8) who are developed in the country

As such we probably need to hope some of our younger players develop (TFM, Tzanube, Gomes etc)

But lets assume worst case scenario and they dont...

In a couple of years time its realistic to assume Smalling, Carrick and Young may no longer be with us.

Given shaws development there is at least a doubt he will be here...

Similarly with Sam Johnson - we have three decent keepers one of who seems to have more potential, a reserve keeper at a higher level than him and agruably the best keeper in the world - so again its quite possible he goes.

That would leave us with club developed

Pogba (who i believe counts as homegrown)
Rashford
Lingaard (who may decide to move on if he does not get games)

and homegrown

Jones (who lets face it may well be totally ruined by injury by then)

So in short we could well need somewhere between 4 and 10 homegrown players over the next 2-3 seasons

As such I think people need to be realistic and accept some players might be kept around due to their status even though better options are available and we may be overpaying (homegrown premium) for some young English players as well!... e.g. perhaps Sessensong or Chilwell is more realistic than Tierney at left back (or we give shaw a new contract for example)

Perhaps we look at players like heaton as a back up keeper (of we replace romero with Johnson)

people like Barkley on a free suddenly become a much more attractive option even if we buy him as back up?

But most of the posts on here seem to suggest buying mostly or exclusivley foreign players and I cant see how thats going to work with the squad rules...

so yeah I think we have to start looking at any homegrown talent that becomes available and we probably need to keep what we have

 

[Trizy]

All depends on how many players we're gonna sign. For example I'd love to see one of Smalling or sick-note Jones gone along with Lindelof, but I doubt we're gonna sign two CBs.

Players we need gone and/or replaced: Young, Carrick, Shaw, Darmian, Mkhitaryan(before he loses more value), Smalling, Mata, Zlatan(end of 17/18) and Lingard.

Funnily enough, on that list it's pretty much all our English players who need replacing.

Players who get a pass as squad players: Fellaini, Valencia & Blind.

 

[Epicurean]

Sell everyone. Clear out all the deadwood.

Then do the exact same thing in two years time.

Exactly this.

The players are good enough. United needs cohesion, confidence and a plan tailored to the players available.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Shaw - does he even still have two legs?
Lindelöf - you win some you lose some, this one is lost
Darmian - So-so, just not a fan.
Blind - Great guy, okay squad player, not United quality
Mkhitaryan - let him go back to BVB, bad fit at United

I'd keep either Darmian or Blind as a back up.

I don't think players like Mata, Herrera and Fellaini will win United any big trophies, but they're definitely useful squad players.

 

[Giggsy92]

Shaw and Blind are the obvious ones, Darmian will probably get a reprieve to avoid us offloading three potential LBs in one go. With Carrick presumably retiring and maybe Zlatan too that would free up the wage budget a bit, but if we're looking to recoup actual transfer fees then we'd probably need to sell one of Mata, Mkhi or Lingard.

 

[SammyUnited_83]

The main issue is how many of our purchases recently have just become squad/utility players. We should be buying first 11 players and padding the squad with players like Young, who used to be first choice, and younger players like TFM and Pereria.

Realistically we've got Bailly, Pogba, Matic, Lukaku who command first 11 spots from our signings in the last 2/3years. Lindelof, Darmian, Blind, Herrera, Mata, Mkhi, Depay, Schneiderlin etc are all no more than squad players, some have had good periods, but overall not really done much. whether that's down to the scouting or players not living up to potential make your own mind up.

The fact we were chasing a left winger all summer when we had 2 very good players competing for a spot there is bizarre. Especially when the right wing is completely void of quality. To sign Lindelof and leave LB is just as inexcusable.

All things considered we're actually having a decent season, so I'm definitely not having a go at Jose, but there needs to be some kind of structure in place behind him long term for recruiting.

This.

The problem we face now, is years and years of awful recruitment / managerial appointments.

Hiring Moyes, will end up going down as one of the worst sporting decisions of all time. In turn this has led to our Chief Exec trying to prove we are the famous 'Man Utd' by following no structure whatsoever.

Just think we rebuilt our squad with (fees taken from a Daily Mirror article):

2013/14
Juan Mata - £37.1m

Marouane Fellaini - £27.5m

2014/15
Angel di Maria - £59.7m

Luke Shaw - £30m

Ander Herrera - £29m

Marcos Rojo - £16m

Daley Blind - £13.8m

Radamel Falcao - £6m (loan fee)

2015/16
Anthony Martial - £36m

Morgan Schneiderlin - £24m

Memphis Depay - £31m

Matteo Darmian - £12.7m

Bastian Schweinsteiger - £14.5m

2016/17
Paul Pogba - £89m

Henrikh Mkhitaryan - £26.3m

Eric Bailly - £30m

Zlatan - Free

2017/18
Victor Lindelof - £30m

Romelu Lukaku - £75m

Matic - £35m

That's 20 players (pretty much a whole squad) and over £600 mil and only 4/5 of them are current nailed on starters (Pogba, Bailly, Matic, Lukaku / Zlatan).

The rest are / were, mercenaries, average or shit (in some cases a mixture of all 3).

I think that pretty much highlights the point made by @Dan_F , where has the structure / scouting been (before Jose), it fecking criminal.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Is it wages or outright transfer fee that is the issue because that would change the game somewhat

Well, it would be transfer fee. Not many teams would be willing to sacrifice their season by selling their best players in January.

 

[red_devil83]

It's amazing how things change so quickly. A lot of Caf members didn't wan't James Rodriguez because we have better 10s in Mkhi and Mata who is apparently better too. 4months later, Mkhi is shit and Mata offers nothing. Now the notion is sell them and bring in a 'top quality' 10 - which James clearly was.

I think a lot of people had reservations about James because he was a bench warmer. As far as I'm aware he's hardly pulling up any trees in Munich either.

Mkhi has been average at best over his United career so far and particularly dire recently, hence he's first for the plank in many people's minds. If a 28 year old can't deliver consistently, then he's got no chance of developing that now.

 

[Revaulx]

I've been a lurker here since the Moyes era. Despite it being bonkers at times, i love the Caf. One of the most consistently bonkers things is the enthusiasm of quite a large minority for binning large parts of our central defence; the one part of our squad (other than goalies) which seems to have been functioning adequately for a few seasons now.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Well, it would be transfer fee. Not many teams would be willing to sacrifice their season by selling their best players in January.

I agree only exception may the Atletico with Griezmann.

If I am not mistaken did we not get some top level scouts from Juve and Athletico?

Does not always have to be the obvious flavour of the month choice as they could always unearth a gem or underrated players that could make the difference