Sell before you buy - so who is off?

[poleglass red]

that article is suggesting we will be buying in Jan. Realistically Jan isn't a great time to be trying to buy player of the calibre we'd need. You'd also most probably have the issue of being cup tied for CL, but I think Jose has been brought in to win the league, so that wouldn't be too much of an issue. There are a few areas we need to strengthen in. left back ,right back, right wing and number 10. We obviously won't address all those in Jan, but a genuine class, pacey right winger could be a target. We currently offer little or no threat down that wing. Bringing in someone there means either Mkhi or Mata could go, possible both. With Zlatan coming back, you could see him playing in a number 10 role. Herrera is one that could go. Now Jose has Matic, he's down the pecking order and he'd still be highly sought after in Spain. Maybe one or 2 out in Jan, with 1 coming in. I could see Shaw being loaned out. let him go and try reestablish his reputation which right now isn't great.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

Good, we have too many players doing very little, Shaw, Darmian, and Mata will do for now, Carrick, Miki, and Smalling not far behind.

I see this as more about controlling the wage bill than generating transfer fees anyway, which is fair enough.

That's what I thought too, and is pretty much what the article implies, stating the wage bill has risen by 13.5% this season. Keeping the wages to revenue ratio healthy is just good sense.

Still, it doesn't stop folk flying off the handle and grumbling about the Glazers.

 

[ghagua]

Smalling and Jones are very good defenders that are too often criticised by imbeciles - see our defensive record over the past three seasons for evidence of that.

Shaw is a good player that will get it right when given the opportunity and support (probably at another club, sadly).

Darmian is a handy squad player to have around in spite of the fact I think he's shite going forward, as is Young in his current guise. If they were to leave I wouldn't care, however.

Carrick is 36 and soon to retire and Lingard is largely shite.

Glad someone else thinks the same.

 

[tonnas]

I think the players that should go in Jan are darmian and shaw. Carrick, young in summer.

I'd keep blind herrera and fellaini as back ups. Id also give another season to mhky and lindelof.

 

[god_of_football]

I don't want to see anyone out in January, but next summer;

1. Shaw - replace with a first choice LB
2. Darmain - replace with TFM if he does ok at Palace, otherwise buy a Valencia replacement
3. Lingard - we've got to upgrade our right wing, he's a very poor backup
4. Blind - replace with Mitchell
5. Mata - Ozil or another world class 10
6. Fellaini - don't mind if he stays but if he goes, give Periera a chance
7. Carrick - We need a midfielder who is a deep lying playmaker
8. Smalling/Jones - Of our 4 CB's who's in the class of stam/vidic/rio? We need 1 player of that calibre and he should come at the expense of our weakest CB.
9. Mkhitaryan - he's been poor this season, give him 1 more, if not get rid - maybe even Jan '19
10. Ibra - Lets see how this goes this season, but a part of me is itching to get Celtics Dembele before someone else does.
11. Valencia - No rush here -but we should upgrade when we can.


The guys in bold i'd like to see us ship off and replace in the summer, the others, maybe the summer after, you can't have too much change in 1 window.

No rush on Valencia like seriously?
He should be among the first to be ship out if we want to see some improvement in our play.

 

[Turkleton]

Micky - Physically and mentally weak. I would give him a run as a right winger though because that suits him better than central.

Mata - Great guy but doesn't do enough in wide positions. A better 10 than Micky but I don't think we should play with one and if we do, there are better options to bring in. I'm guessing he is on big wages.

Shaw - Waste of space. Imagine having his talent but deciding to eat all day instead.

Darmian - Offers nothing going forward, fullbacks need to do more in the modern game.

Smalling - Fourth choice centre back and can't pass the ball.

Fellaini - Has played okay this season but not good enough to compete for important trophies. His style of play is not what I want to see.

Carrick and Ibra - Won't play enough to justify the salary


Really though we would need to know what the main formation would be, who we can realistically sign and which youngsters are close to making a breakthrough. This is why we need a Director of Football. Mourinho is not the man to be making these long term decisions.

 

[Morpheus 7]

Leaked by the club, pay up Glazers if you want a stronger challenge on all fronts. More chess between Jose's new contract and the club. All public and unnecessary.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Deja vu all over again.

I know. I don't think we had a good, well-planned summer really in the market. FB's were such an obvious glaring issue and we don't seem to have attempted to improve those areas.

 

[Banat]

Fellaini is the only player I really want to get rid. Wouldn’t mind replacing Shaw as well and one of Young/Darmian for a proper left back. Also, think we should listen offers for Mata, we can definitely upgrade. I would give Mkhi another chance, think he is suffering most (along with Lukaku) with Pogba’s absence.

 

[walkinhop]

Lingard, Mata, Smalling, Darmian, Shaw, Mkhi.

 

[walkinhop]

fecking leeches our owners. Sell before you buy for the biggest club in the world, shameful by any standards. We will fall even more behind than now till the time these idiots are our owners. It is clear we did not buy another player because we did not have the money in the summer. For all the claims about the money we have by woodward this is embarrassing.

Have you thought it might be because of the wage budget and not the overall one?

 

[Dobbs]

Are you going to completely ignore the spending under SAF and not recognise a large reason we're in this mess is because of that? Mourinho has been excellent in the transfer market so far and if you expect him to compete with City then you have to fund moves for players on the same level as Aguero/Silva/KDB.

You're right about the Fergie years but enough money has been spent since to correct that.

 

[Bojan11]

If it prevents him from buying the likes of Lindelof then it's not all bad.

He should be getting a hell of a lot more out of the talent already at his disposal - including the £30 million left back he's actively sought to throw in the bin. Give him a shot, at least.

Mourinho has been backed extensively and the club's stance (if true) is reasonable at this point.

What are you talking about? Mourinho isn't the only coach to criticise Shaw. Have you actually watched him in reserve games or the league cup games? I guess you haven't because his attitude has stank.

 

[Dobbs]

I dont think there's anything wrong in the board asking some questions. We can't compete with oil clubs. Smart decisions have to be made to keep up.

If for instance Mourinho wants to spend big on a fullback I think it would be fair for the board to point out we already have six of them! Some on big wages. They'd hopefully sanction the signing but also tell Jose to get rid of a couple.

 

[prtk0811]

Glazers should keep the money comming until next year and be realistic. This is the worst time to put on brakes. We cant find any suiters right now and selling anyone will be counter productive.

Mkh is sruggling but still can be used on the wing.

 

[prtk0811]

I dont think there's anything wrong in the board asking some questions. We can't compete with oil clubs. Smart decisions have to be made to keep up.

Smart decision is to fight neck to neck until next year. If you stop guardiola from winning 2 years you pretty much beat the city's resurgance project.

We cant spend on full backs and rightly so but if its a winger or playmaker the board should not deny the opportunities and funds.

 

[Zlatattack]

No rush on Valencia like seriously?
He should be among the first to be ship out if we want to see some improvement in our play.

The first? He's our only FB who gets forwards. End product is a bit meh but he defends well and gets forwards.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Unless we have lined up better replacements, I wouldn't want to get rid of anyone except Shaw. I wouldn't want too many players gone in January and then be left with a thin squad or squad having only young players as back up.

 

[shamans]

Mikhi and Lingard

 

[RedDevil@84]

Reading the thread, looks like we ll be left with academy players plus Rashford, Lukaku, Martial, De Gea, Bailly, Rojo, Matic.

 

[VeevaVee]

tl;dr
on one hand - no one is ever sellable on the caf these days - if you think they are, you're not of intelligent footballing mind.

on the other - sell everyone.

 

[haram]

Shaw, Carrick's contract is up. I'd get rid of Mkhi and keep Mata.

 

[bosnian_red]

Going in an ideal situation where you have a clear complete starting 11 and their back ups...
De gea valencia bailly rojo ???? Matic pogba ???? ???? Lukaku martial

Romero darmian smalling lindelof Blind herrera ???? Pereira ???? Rashford lingard

Basically we need to buy a right winger, back up right winger, creative midfielder to partner pogba in the starting 11, a back up for pogba (one where we dont turn into a hoofing team), and a starting quality left back. A few spots for youth players to fill the 25 (tuanzebe, fosu mensah, angel gomes). The rest who arent on this list can pretty much be sold IMO. Young, shaw, fellaini, carrick, mata, mkhitaryan. Bring in more talented and dynamic players so we arent so reliant on one or two.
So in the next few windows something like this should be our aim: (going fm mode)

Out:
Young - 5m
Shaw - 15m
Fellaini - 20m
Carrick- nothing
Mata - 25m
Mkhitaryan -25m
Total = 90m

In:
Lb - Tierney - 20m?
Rw - sanchez in January for whatever (unlikely). Malcom - 40-50m
Rw (2)- someone who can play as an actual winger, not a forward playing wide or a #10 playing there... Martins - 40m?
Cam - someone like isco ideal. Keita wouldve been good. Naingollan? (but old) - 60m
B2b (2) - Seri - 30m, goretzka on a free (contract expiring)

 

[walkinhop]

I dont think there's anything wrong in the board asking some questions. We can't compete with oil clubs. Smart decisions have to be made to keep up.

If for instance Mourinho wants to spend big on a fullback I think it would be fair for the board to point out we already have six of them! Some on big wages. They'd hopefully sanction the signing but also tell Jose to get rid of a couple.

Very well put.

 

[RedDevil@84]

For the sake of their careers, I hope Shaw, Blind and Darmian go to new clubs. Their careers are just stalled here. I think Blind and Darmian are good enough squad members, but they are capable of getting regular games in other teams.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

That's what I thought too, and is pretty much what the article implies, stating the wage bill has risen by 13.5% this season. Keeping the wages to revenue ratio healthy is just good sense.

Still, it doesn't stop folk flying off the handle and grumbling about the Glazers.

The Glazers deserve a grumble, just not over this imo, too players aren't doing much, or nothing at all, Ibra's coming back, as is Rojo, & Periera should be made to come back imo, so we just have too many players, we could lose Darmian, Shaw, Carrick, & Mata, in January and be fine number wise, and then we have Lindelof who is clearly struggling to pay, not many clubs have our sort of waste.

Sure Jose is fine with this btw.

 

[Jonboy]

Genuinely wouldn't bat an eyelid If any of the following were sold or released come the end of the season:
Darmian
Lindelof
Blind
Shaw
Young
Fellaini
Carrick
Mata
Mkhitaryan
Lingard

Which is worrying considering its almost half our squad.
Obviously all won't go and there's a few in that list who could be kept as good squad options. I just feel as long as they're still at the club, with the manager we have, we'll continue to use them far too frequently as they can "do a job" or "put in a shift" . Before you know it they are starting every week and mediocrity sets in. See Fellaini or Ashley Young recently.

 

[Ducklegs]

Shaw.
Prickaterian.
Fellaini.
Young.
Smalling.
The italian fullback.


Thats what needs to shoved out the door, theres a case for chucking Pingard in there as well, but i find him relatively inoffensive so I dont care either way.

I am also in agreement with the poster above about Mata, too slow, too weak, and to be homest, i dont think he is all that good either.

 

[friendlytramp]

Smalling
Shaw
Darmian
Mkhitaryan

 

[Nytram Shakes]

weve spent like half a billion in 4 years, 300 million since Jose Mourinho took over...... obviously throwing money at the issue isnt the solution.

think at some point we have think thier is something wrong with the infrastructure and coaching

 

[prtk0811]

weve spent like half a billion in 4 years, 300 million since Jose Mourinho took over...... obviously throwing money at the issue isnt the solution.

think at some point we have think thier is something wrong with the infrastructure and coaching

People need to stop counting the money, lot of that money went to buy only 2 players in pogba and lukaku.

 

[Rozay]

Players need to go but we’ve screwed ourselves contractually into a position where any player with any real worth is in the final year of their contract. This means we’ll be getting feck all for them.

Anyway, in terms of who:

Young - the fact that Ashley Young starts so many games for Manchester United is still of huge irritation to me. He was an average winger the very day he walked into Old Trafford, and that was like 5 or 6 years ago.

Lindelof - was not needed the very day he walked into Old Trafford too, and I don’t want the likes of Jones and Smalling to be sold before him simply because ‘last one in, last one out’. I’d be astounded if he turned out to be better than either of them, so should go First too.

Mata - not good enough.

Mkhitaryan - not good enough, and hides on the pitch.

Darmian - the full-back version of the winger version of Ashley Young. Totally average.

Shaw - if he’s not going to play, then let him go.

Carrick - obviously he won’t be here next season, and I’d be surprised if he featured another 10 times for us.

Zlatan - likely in his last year too.

I have less issue with Jesse. He’s one of ours and is a useful enough squad player who doesn’t hide.

Fellaini is a weird footballer. He’s useful, although I’m not Sure that isn’t overstated. Like, an actual good footballer in central midfield would still likely be far more useful. Still, I’d be indifferent either way if he stayed or went.

Herrera still has use I think, although this season is showing me that he may Not react well to being a squad player. If that is the case, then he should go.

 

[Mcking]

Out - Mata, Carrick, Shaw, Mkhitaryan, Herrera, Young.
In an ideal world.
In - Koke, Ghoulam, Pulisic, Pereira.

SQUAD​

GK -

De gea
Romero
Pereira​

CB -

Bailly
Jones
Smalling
Rojo
Lindelof​

FB -

Valencia
Ghoulam
Darmian
Blind​

CM -

Pogba
Matic
Koke
Fellaini
Pereira​

AM -

Koke
Pereira​

WG -

Pulisic
Martial
Rashford
Lingard​

ST -

Lukaku
Rashford
Martial​

Mata, Herrera and Carrick's contracts all expire in the summer, so I'd rather let them go. Bring in Koke for the AM position and backup CM. There's at least two players for each position, with DM the only slight worry. Perfect team to alternate between a 4231, 433 and occasionally, 3 at the back.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

People need to stop counting the money, lot of that money went to buy only 2 players in pogba and lukaku.

and people need to stop thinking buying more and more players is the answer when the players we have brought it arn't performing anywhere near the level we have seen them play for other clubs.

 

[prtk0811]

and people need to stop thinking buying more and more players is the answer when the players we have brought it arn't performing anywhere near the level we have seen them play for other clubs.

We havnt bought quality, we have bought quantity over quality and improved the squad depth and not necesarily the quality required, until we got on to get pogba who we let go for free.

Only mkh has been a flop amongst mourinho's players yet he's done well in cup competitons specially in europa league.

 

[Hed Zitin]

Mkhi hopefully.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

We havnt bought quality, we have bought quantity over quality and improved the squad depth and not necesarily then quality required.

what do you want us to buy a whole new team each player at around 90 million? and that the only way we can win? thats just silly.

Weve done what every team does bring it a few Marquee signs some first team signings and some squad player signings and we have spent more then
any club on the planet that can actually support itself.

the bottom line is quite simple that the players we have bought in are underperfoming, pogba was a shadow of the player he was at Juve last season, Mkhitaryan looks a million miles away from the player who the best player in the bundesliga less than 2 years ago, Lukaku looks lost as we arnt play tactics that suit him, Mata use to be described as luxury player now looks like work man like player, Martial has struggled to regain his form from the first season...........

the idea that we havnt spent enough or bought enought quality players is nonsense.

 

[notcool]

That's what I thought too, and is pretty much what the article implies, stating the wage bill has risen by 13.5% this season. Keeping the wages to revenue ratio healthy is just good sense.

Still, it doesn't stop folk flying off the handle and grumbling about the Glazers.

It's a dumb article. Wages to revenue is still the same at 45%.

 

[prtk0811]

what do you want us to buy a whole new team each player at around 90 million? and that the only way we can win? thats just silly.

Weve done what every team does bring it a few Marquee signs some first team signings and some squad player signings and we have spent more then
any club on the planet that can actually support itself.

the bottom line is quite simple that the players we have bought in are underperfoming, pogba was a shadow of the player he was at Juve last season, Mkhitaryan looks a million miles away from the player who the best player in the bundesliga less than 2 years ago, Lukaku looks lost as we arnt play tactics that suit him, Mata use to be described as luxury player now looks like work man like player, Martial has struggled to regain his form from the first season...........

the idea that we havnt spent enough or bought enought quality players is nonsense.

I dont want us to buy whole new team obviosuly, but where you need quality you have to sign players.

As with underperforming players pogba did more than okay last year with an unbalanced midfeild with the likes of fellai who was so mediocre in his united career and is never a top level player who could partner pogba, carrick is 36 and has lost the legs, herrera isnt great on the ball either. What choice of midfelder we had with pogba who played with pirlo marchisio vidal level midfeilders in juventus in a mid 3 without any defensive duties.

Mkh looks bad because he is basically a counter attacking player and when we face low blocks he does not know what to do and how to find space and how to link up. He stuggled to cope up with epl league's demands. Lukaku needs service to score and all 3 rashford martial and mata are not natural wingers who would feed him but they are strikers too or square peg in a round hole. We couldnt get perisic to feed crosses to lukaku and when you have so many injuries that you cant play mid 3 to control the ball lukaku gets isolated with mkh who doesnot know what to do against low blocks with the ball at his feet.

Its not non sense one bit. it makes perfect sense because only the likes of pogba matic carrick rashford martial and mata in some cases and zlatan are good on the ball. rest all the defenders and midfeilders are not ball playing players and some seriously lacing the workrate like blind darmian shaw mkh.

 

[Brophs]

If Rojo is fit enough to contribute then you could in theory move on two of Blind, Shaw & Darmian - particularly if you were selling them to buy a LB - as Lindelof can apparently play RB and you'd have Young and Rojo who could play on the left. If we bought a LB and Jones, Bailly, Lindelof, Rojo and Tuanzebe were all fit, Smalling might be vulnerable. I don't think he'll last here either way and he's likely on good money. Other than that, you could maybe see Mata's extra year clause being activated and then him being shifted on if there was a market for him.

Other than that, I can't see much happening. We likely won't be able to buy a really top player who'd go straight into the first choice team in the Jan window so we'd probably still need the likes of Mkhitaryan. Also, I would imagine who we sell will largely depend on what positions we want to buy in, if any.