Should Jose suffer the same fate....

[cantonaldo]

The manager himself said that top 4 is no longer a priority so it is not surprising that we struggled in the last two games. You lot should listen to the manager sometimes.

If we had no EL to contend with, I'm pretty sure we will be sitting at 3rd at the very least.

Also Mourinho is not to blame for Bailly's dumbass decision to tackle the way he did when there is no danger posed. He is also not to blame for Rooney's brainfart for their equalizer. Anyway, it was a peach of a freekick that is worthy of a point. Nothing to cry about.

 

[SalfordRed1960]

I selected yes, but not because I specifically want him gone. You either have performance targets and hold managers accountable for them or you don't. We obviously don't know what Jose has been given as targets, but if he doesn't reach them, then why would he be kept. I think the target is CL, rather than trophies, but who knows.

It is going to be hard to guarantee top 4, but not impossible. We saw this week how results are in the air at this stage of the season. Pretty sure, Liverpool, City, United and Arsenal are going to drop more points in their next 4 games. So I still fancy us for 4th. Also, think we will park the bus and hold out for a draw on Thursday, putting us in a good position for the return leg. I think he will be here next year, not because fans want him to stay, but because he met the minimum standards expected by the board.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

No, he should be commended for trying hard to fight on all fronts.

We're gonna experience a European semi-final for the first time since Fergie retired, we've won 1 trophy already, and we're still in the run for Top 4 in the PL.

All this with a crazy injury list that would feck any team up.

On top of all this, he isn't trying to paint this as 'good enough', he hasn't once tried to lower expectation like Moyes and also LvG would do constantly.

He isn't happy with this, he wants more. He's a winner.

 

[shaky]

I selected yes, but not because I specifically want him gone. You either have performance targets and hold managers accountable for them or you don't. We obviously don't know what Jose has been given as targets, but if he doesn't reach them, then why would he be kept. I think the target is CL, rather than trophies, but who knows.

It is going to be hard to guarantee top 4, but not impossible. We saw this week how results are in the air at this stage of the season. Pretty sure, Liverpool, City, United and Arsenal are going to drop more points in their next 4 games. So I still fancy us for 4th. Also, think we will park the bus and hold out for a draw on Thursday, putting us in a good position for the return leg. I think he will be here next year, not because fans want him to stay, but because he met the minimum standards expected by the board.

Should a new manager not get leeway from the target, if failure to meet it was more down to a bad start to the season than any other factor? Punishing him for not doing well 8 months ago, when he has improved things markedly since then, would surely be a foolish thing to do, even if the board had previously decided that targets were all that mattered.

 

[efraim]

No. I believe if anyone can get us back on track it's Mourinho. On our day we play amazing football, we have a rock-solid defense even how much we have rotated there. It's the first time in 3 years teams don't look forward to facing us, we're a pain in the ass to play against.

Look at our injury list, basically our whole first 11 is injured in a tight schedule were we have a game every 3 days. Mourinho is doing a great job but it's going to take another season or two for us to be back amongst the top clubs in Europe.

 

[lysglimt]

Does he deserve to go based on the results if we fail to quality for CL ? Isolated speaking yes

Should he go ? Nah. First of all because he has been unlucky with injuries and second because we can't continue changing managers every season.

But has he done a good enough job ? Not even close - even despite the injuries!

 

[VeevaVee]

No. 3 reasons why:

1. League is more difficult this season
2. Jose has to deal with the mess those 2 created, mindset and teamsheet-wise
3. There's no one else with the calibre

 

[Moonwalker]

The manager himself said that top 4 is no longer a priority so it is not surprising that we struggled in the last two games. You lot should listen to the manager sometimes.

I love these 'the manager himself!' posts, that make it sound as if some evidence against interest is about to be introduced, only to follow it up with the most self-serving drivel. How does one acquire such crazed credulity?

 

[ghagua]

He should be given another season, but Woody should give him a warning about his behavior. He is behaving like a spoilt little b***h with his handling of some players. He is making sure that the players are taking all the blame when it should be shared between both players and manager.

 

[lem8sh]

Apt username even in 2017.

This.

 

[Turkleton]

You can be boring or you can be bad but you can't be both. We are much less boring than last season and I think the team is better too. He hasn't done an amazing job yet but we are moving in the right direction.

 

[Fracture90]

I mean, if Rooney doesn't have a brain fart and give away that freekick yesterday we're 3rd right now and suddenly Mourinho's not being questioned.

In all honesty Swansea looked like scoring long before that free-kick.

Mourinho should have pulled Rooney off before that free-kick, Mata should have been given some 20 ish something minutes to prepare him for Celta clash.

 

[Sianti]

I kinda feel that the other two managers before were fired to quickly. Because the overall development was that there are now 6 teams competing for the title every year, and last year a 7th team called Leicester city grabbed the title. All good managers under-perform sometimes. Only now if you do, you become 5th or 6th instead of 2nd or 3rd. And if you want a team to grow you need to stay with a manager longer, even if he under-performs one year. With that van Gaal should not have been fired. And Mourinho, in spite of how much I hate him, should also not be fired.

 

[Smores]

First season is all about direction, Moyes was sacked because the club didn't think it was the right one. LvG because we were going nowhere and the fans hated our football.

Does anyone think we're not heading in the right direction?

Even if we don't get the CL place we've moved in the right direction and come close to doing so.

 

[Moiraine]

Much has been said here and other threads over the past few weeks. This is what happens when a team is not getting results what is expected of them, restlessness creeps in in the dressing room. All the excuses aside, a player has to give his 100%, show their dedication and desire to play for the club. I think this is where players who have been promoted from the Academy can step up and take control. Our club has fallen into a very wrong culture, the worst thing happened to this club was a very weak manager followed Alex Ferguson. Ever since, this culture of faking injuries, lethargic efforts both in training and match day has crept in.

I would give absolute power to Mourinho and am willing to see a couple more season out of Europe if this is what it takes to get their heads right. I think Mourinho will do a massive clear out and over haul anyway in this summer, players of the likes of Jones, Shaw, Fellaini has no place in this Team while Rooney, Carrick, DeGea and Ibrahimovic look to be on their way out. Smalling and Martial are on very thin ice, that is almost the whole DNA of the team. I would rather throw of the likes of Anders Perrera, Brothwick Jackson in first 11 than to see players who have no respect of the club. Nobody can take Manchester United for granted.

 

[Moonwalker]

In all honesty Swansea looked like scoring long before that free-kick.

Mourinho should have pulled Rooney off before that free-kick, Mata should have been given some 20 ish something minutes to prepare him for Celta clash.

Just as they looked like scoring after it. There was another free kick after that (around ninetieth minute), where Llorente luckily just dozed off, instead of burying it. As with all these incidents, the lachrymose 'what if' story is only remembered if it could have benefited us, while every instance of a fortuitous escape is consigned to oblivion.

 

[SirScholes]

Yeah can't wait to see what he does with a team of his choosing, unlike this year when he only signed four first team players spending more than any other manager in the world.

Because 4 players make a team

And in a squad haha jog on

 

[bonothom]

He needs another season. I think if he doesn't challenge for the title next season he'll get fed up and leave anyway. Next season I think both United and City will both be challenging more. Chelsea need a bigger squad and will struggle with Champions League and Prem commitments and Spurs will not even make the top 4 cos their crap at Wembley.

 

[Fracture90]

Just as they looked like scoring after it. There was another free kick after that (around ninetieth minute), where Llorente luckily just dozed off, instead of burying it. As with all these incidents, the lachrymose 'what if' story is only remembered if it could have benefited us, while every instance of a fortuitous escape is consigned to oblivion.

So your point is they looked like scoring the entire game? If that's the case, I agree with that, they did.

 

[Wumminator]

Because 4 players make a team

And in a squad haha jog on

It's half an outfield team mate. It's massive

 

[SammyUnited_83]

Just as they looked like scoring after it. There was another free kick after that (around ninetieth minute), where Llorente luckily just dozed off, instead of burying it. As with all these incidents, the lachrymose 'what if' story is only remembered if it could have benefited us, while every instance of a fortuitous escape is consigned to oblivion.

Absolutely.

I thought a point was actually quite fortunate.

 

[Zoo]

This is quite close.

 

[Ødegaard]

I was probably one of the earliest to want both Moyes & LvG gone, but Im still of the opinion that Mourinho is doing a good job and trust him to improve the squad a lot more as long as he is backed.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

In terms of the position in the League table, it does not change that much. When it comes to performance, yeah, Jose might be slightly better than LVG. Given the quality player he added to the squad, that is not even a credit.

I personally like to take last season as a transition. As anyone who knows a bit of LVG's career and football style, last season was an absolute incident. His failure to buy quality players costs his job, especially Depay because his tactics relies heavily on the wingers who can break defenders like Mathial. That aside, I think last season witnessed a maturing team although there would be still a lot work to do to bring United back where it ought to be.

He can give chance to young players, which is one of the defining features of United's DNA. Plus, LVG is not a manager who likes to build his team with big-name players. At least not like Jose who like to spend a lot in market. When it comes to individual player's performance, only Rojo improves a little bit this season. Other players? They all underachieve, IMP. Under LVG, Smalling, Blind, Mathial, Rashford, DDG, even Fellani were better than they are now.

When it comes to tactics, I do not get those pundits who think Jose is the best to win matches. Fecking hell. I can see a clear-cut tactics operating in that squad last year. It did not work very well because of obvious weakness in that squad such as in the position of holding midfield, winger and center strike.

It is true, buying right players is a very important part of a manager's job. Maybe I should not say much to defend LVG given some of games last season were really torturing to watch for United fans who are used to watch SAF's United. That being said, let's not forget the cold fact that we are building a team. We cannot expect any manager in this world to do United job without making any mistake.

when interviewed Last May, when the rumor of replaying LVG with Jose was circulating around every corner, SAF showed his support of LVG by saying something like: it is worth waiting and being patient when a club like Manchester United with hundreds years of history is experiencing a bad spell of three or five years. LVG's main setbacks was injury.

SAF knows what it means by building a team. Think about the bad time from 2004 to 2006, even for SAF, it takes three years to be back to the top. Building a team after the retirement of SAF can be everything but being easier than SAF did himself.

History is made and LVG is gone, it cannot be reversed. The club board made their choice which, I presume was made on a commercial basis. He is not a complete mess.

Nevertheless, the reason I am writing this is just because I really do not enjoy those whining words from Jose and I like LVG because he is a real honest man. And I think if given enough time, LVG could really play beautiful games, like those beautiful games we were used to watch under SAF. on the other hand, if Jose is given enough time, he might as well build a successful team which can win a lot of games in an ugly fashion.

To sum up, it is probably not a good idea to sack Jose. At this point, I cannot allow myself to ask too much when it comes to the way we are supposed to play football. Result is only thing we should care for this former giant club which is on the brink of declining.

a really good post i enjoyed reading it.

 

[Moonwalker]

It's half an outfield team mate. It's massive

It is indeed. What's more, there was absolutely no indication that he wanted, but couldn't get, more. No missed transfer target story, no recruitment regret. He got everything he wished for, and was on the record with his content with that fact.

 

[SirScholes]

It's half an outfield team mate. It's massive

It's not even half mate

 

[whatwha]

No, he should be given a second season no matter how this season ends.

 

[GazTheLegend]

No.

• All of Joses signings have been successful
• We have competed on four fronts and done well
• He's only had a single season and the margin of his failure, if it is to be a failure, is fractional where Moyes and van Gaal's were huge.

 

[Jaxdan]

Just as they looked like scoring after it. There was another free kick after that (around ninetieth minute), where Llorente luckily just dozed off, instead of burying it. As with all these incidents, the lachrymose 'what if' story is only remembered if it could have benefited us, while every instance of a fortuitous escape is consigned to oblivion.

Well said. If you squander your chances and are living on a knifes edge hoping to hold onto a 1-0 victory over Swansea at Old Trafford for God's sake, you don't deserve much. It shouldn't come down to one unfortunate foul and free kick. There was so much wrong with our play yesterday by all involved, it's hard to even begin. But yeah, Rooney and all.

 

[Raoul]

@Raoul poll?

Not for me. We actually have direction now. We can see what type of team we want to be and we're moving towards it. It might not be as quickly as we would like but it's happening nonetheless. We've got a chance of winning a second trophy and finishing top 4, we've equalled our longest ever unbeaten run in a season and we are attracting the caliber of players our board have been after.

Yes, its a poll.

 

[Rado_N]

In all honesty Swansea looked like scoring long before that free-kick.

Mourinho should have pulled Rooney off before that free-kick, Mata should have been given some 20 ish something minutes to prepare him for Celta clash.

Yet didn't, and couldn't score again either.

 

[marjen]

During the first half of the season I was convinced we were moving in the right direction. Even the games we drew, we should've won the was majority of them. Had we converted those draws into wins, we would be neck and neck with Chelsea at the start of the year. Despite results, I had quite few complaints about our direction during this period.

The rest of the season has been slightly different. Results wise, and defensively, we've been very, very solid. But the draws has been less impressing. We've stopped being able to break teams down at will, which we did in some of the draws earlier on in the season. It might be injuries, it might be fatigue, and it might be José's decision to sell players without replacing them in the squad.

I do think a lot of the slightly poor results the last couple of months stems from fatigue. We've had a grueling schedule.

José's done mistakes. That much is clear. I'm not convinced his handling of Martial/Shaw/Mkhitaryan has allowed them to perform towards their best level, which would make them potentially very good players for him. I'm also convinced we could've rotated a bit heavier. I think that's partly to blame for our injury situation. I also think he should've utilized players like Fosu-Mensah, Tuanzebe and others more, to rest some key personell.

Still, I feel like we are closer to challenging for the title than at any point post-SAF. I think we've become resilient, we've improved our mentality (but not enough to win at all costs as of yet), and our squad is closer in terms of quality to challenging for the league. Who knows where we would've been had we got a winning run going when we drew all those matches last autumn? It would give our squad the same sort of energy that Chelsea has ridden most of the season.

And whereas José has made mistakes, as mentioned, he's also done good things. Bringing in Bailly, Pogba and Mkhitaryan will help us in the long run. Zlatan showcased his knack of bringing in a striker who'll deliver.

Winning the Europa League will now decide how our season is viewed in total. Winning that and it's been a success that could catapult us into greater heights.

Not taking this opportunity will mean another heavy hit to the morale, and another grueling Europa League campaign. In that case a lot of people will lose faith. Perhaps even inside the club?

I still think we should give him more time. A couple of goalscorers brought in, a bit more killer instinct and José identifying the men he'll go to war with, and we should be an interesting proposition.

Also: There's the fact that I've got little faith in us being able to bring in someone who'll improve us as a manager.

 

[Florida Man]

In terms of the position in the League table, it does not change that much. When it comes to performance, yeah, Jose might be slightly better than LVG. Given the quality player he added to the squad, that is not even a credit.

I personally like to take last season as a transition. As anyone who knows a bit of LVG's career and football style, last season was an absolute incident. His failure to buy quality players costs his job, especially Depay because his tactics relies heavily on the wingers who can break defenders like Mathial. That aside, I think last season witnessed a maturing team although there would be still a lot work to do to bring United back where it ought to be.

He can give chance to young players, which is one of the defining features of United's DNA. Plus, LVG is not a manager who likes to build his team with big-name players. At least not like Jose who like to spend a lot in market. When it comes to individual player's performance, only Rojo improves a little bit this season. Other players? They all underachieve, IMP. Under LVG, Smalling, Blind, Mathial, Rashford, DDG, even Fellani were better than they are now.

When it comes to tactics, I do not get those pundits who think Jose is the best to win matches. Fecking hell. I can see a clear-cut tactics operating in that squad last year. It did not work very well because of obvious weakness in that squad such as in the position of holding midfield, winger and center strike.

It is true, buying right players is a very important part of a manager's job. Maybe I should not say much to defend LVG given some of games last season were really torturing to watch for United fans who are used to watch SAF's United. That being said, let's not forget the cold fact that we are building a team. We cannot expect any manager in this world to do United job without making any mistake.

when interviewed Last May, when the rumor of replaying LVG with Jose was circulating around every corner, SAF showed his support of LVG by saying something like: it is worth waiting and being patient when a club like Manchester United with hundreds years of history is experiencing a bad spell of three or five years. LVG's main setbacks was injury.

SAF knows what it means by building a team. Think about the bad time from 2004 to 2006, even for SAF, it takes three years to be back to the top. Building a team after the retirement of SAF can be everything but being easier than SAF did himself.

History is made and LVG is gone, it cannot be reversed. The club board made their choice which, I presume was made on a commercial basis. He is not a complete mess.

Nevertheless, the reason I am writing this is just because I really do not enjoy those whining words from Jose and I like LVG because he is a real honest man. And I think if given enough time, LVG could really play beautiful games, like those beautiful games we were used to watch under SAF. on the other hand, if Jose is given enough time, he might as well build a successful team which can win a lot of games in an ugly fashion.

To sum up, it is probably not a good idea to sack Jose. At this point, I cannot allow myself to ask too much when it comes to the way we are supposed to play football. Result is only thing we should care for this former giant club which is on the brink of declining.

Your thoughts on LVG would have had a little more ground to stand on if he wasn't retiring in another year. And the transition to better football under his guidance is, at best, guesswork. To most people, the style of play was obvious, predictable, and boring — an overall style that clearly did not work in the League. And if last season was an incident, then how would you explain his second stint at Barcelona? Furthermore, the kids we had come through the years still played with superstars and men of men. Promoting youth is good, we can all agree. But we also need some real motherfeckers and some badasses who've had the experience, a seemingly underrated element of our DNA among the romantics of our fan base.

 

[Mciahel Goodman]

If we were to lose every game until the end of the season, I'd still say no. The difference between this season and last season is night and day. We're 1 point off last season's tally with 4 games left to play. We'd have made the top four last year, but it's more competitive at the top this season and we've suffered with fixture congestion.

 

[Fracture90]

Yet didn't, and couldn't score again either.

Thanks to Llorente.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

Of course he shouldn't be sacked this season but if we are at the same point this time next year then questions need to be asked.

Generally I'm happy with Jose, but one thing I'm not happy about is his blind loyalty to certain players who aren't good enough such as Fellaini, Lingard and Darmian. If it persists next season then we won't be any higher in the league I honestly don't think.

 

[Android1974]

Thanks to Llorente.

If Rooney had buried that easy ball not in Martial's back, Llorente wouldn't matter anyhow.

By the way, the poll is pretty clear, almost 95%!

 

[Jed I. Knight]

He's performed well below par, but there aren't any obviously better candidates out there at the moment. Have a feeling there's a decent chance he still may get it right next season, but it's more of a faint hope than anything based on what we've seen lately.

 

[Striker10]

I think people need some common sense. The answers no. Joses proven over a long period of time. We've seen a great improvement and we'd be CHALLENGING for the title.....if we weren't so wasteful - never mind struggling to get into the Champions League. We're in a period where we've had bad luck with injuries. We just have to dig deep. We've seen a marked improvement but because of selling rafael, Nani, Hernandez - we're short. The future is very bright but let's move forward with some common sense.

Moyes attempt at getting into the players minds by saying they weren't good enough...was abysmal man management - of the then champions. LVG played a system knowing full bloody well we didn't have a Ronaldo to take that one chance....we're short. At Old Trafford, it's just been a season where we've perhaps not been aggressive enough.

 

[Bastian]

If you vote that he should be gotten rid of were we to fail to qualify, what do you then want to happen?