Agree. Keeping the club in the black is what most well driven clubs do. Bartomeu's mismanagement and negligence border on the criminal.
Shoutout to Ed Woodward and all the accountants and financial nerds at United
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??? Don't get taken in by this summer's charm offensive, it is all being done because of protests and the fear of regulation. Our debt and Barcelona's debt are both 1BN. However, Barcelona took on debt to improve the quality of football at their club while we took on debt to enrich the Glazers.
#GlazersOut
#GlazersOut
More than a club content?
Penetrate them, Ed. Penetrate those emerging and dormant international markets.
Spot on! Can't believe there are people getting on board to suck Ed off!! Revisionism at its best
We can sustain a club (while offering massive wages to players that don't perform)
in ways other clubs can only dream of
- Ed Woodward
in ways other clubs can only dream of
- Ed Woodward
On to Disneyworld
Ed got the job at United after he successfully implemented the infamous debt-take over scheme that he himself thought of.
Which worked beautifully for his employer at the time. Shit for United, but nothing that discredits his competence.
Basically, Ed had done a tremendous, outstanding (no sarcasm) work for Glazers and a borderline acceptable (where his financial success was overlooked by a more public and less successful work on the transfer market) job for United.
Better than Bartomeu, yay!
Better than Bartomeu, yay!
It literally was my next post, but I can’t credit the man with our “success” considering the role than he played in putting the club in an enormous debt.
Well, our issue definitely has not been how much we have spent on wages and transfers, but rather who we have spent that money on.
Is this thread a wind up? I haven't actually read the OP. Are we making Bartomeu the bar for good management practices in football? 
For well run football clubs we should be using the likes of Leicester as a benchmark. Look at the investment that's been made in Leicester's training facilities, in the infrastructure around the club, in the first XI squad and all in a sustainable way.
I can't see any world in which Leicester allows itself to go for five years without a dedicated right winger, or piles up unwanted players on huge contracts, continuously renewing them in hope someone will pay big money for them. I'm not a Leicester fan, maybe there are some on here who can comment? However, I doubt their club only gives a lick of paint to their ground after fans have stormed the place in anger at the chronic underinvestment.
Not running your club like Bartomeu is not some kind of achievement. The majority of clubs manage to do this without any issues.
We should be looking at clubs like Bayern Munich and saying how can we be like that. Not being grateful that, as bad as we are, there's someone worse.
For well run football clubs we should be using the likes of Leicester as a benchmark. Look at the investment that's been made in Leicester's training facilities, in the infrastructure around the club, in the first XI squad and all in a sustainable way.
I can't see any world in which Leicester allows itself to go for five years without a dedicated right winger, or piles up unwanted players on huge contracts, continuously renewing them in hope someone will pay big money for them. I'm not a Leicester fan, maybe there are some on here who can comment? However, I doubt their club only gives a lick of paint to their ground after fans have stormed the place in anger at the chronic underinvestment.
Not running your club like Bartomeu is not some kind of achievement. The majority of clubs manage to do this without any issues.
We should be looking at clubs like Bayern Munich and saying how can we be like that. Not being grateful that, as bad as we are, there's someone worse.
We have spent billion and have nothing to show, we haven't won any major trophies (PL, CL) after SAF retired, which was 8 years ago.
ManUtd was already a huge brand when Woodward became CEO, he deserves bit of credit for not doing a Barca but we should have been in much better position.
ManUtd was already a huge brand when Woodward became CEO, he deserves bit of credit for not doing a Barca but we should have been in much better position.
It’s a bit like congratulating Tiger Woods for shooting the Masters in under 400
In a sporting sense, no doubt. But financially, while being next to irrelevant on the biggest sporting stage, we're doing very fine.
Yeah, surely that's something to do with the club and the brand that was built for few decades?
Absolutely, but he's also responsible for keeping that growth going while the success on the pitch didn't contribute to it.
He's obviously also partially to blame for that lack of success, but I think these two issues can be looked at separately.
I think it's never been in doubt that Woodward and his team are savvy accountants. The whole leveraged boy-out thing was a masterpiece. Point is - he knew how to generate money, had little idea how to spend them bar the obvious positions: dividends and debt.
Yeah, he did decent job but lot more negatives than positives IMO.
I won't blame him for not spending money as we did. I would blame him for being responsible for footballing side and we ended up in such a poor position for years.
I am not so sure.
Spent over a billion on transfers, with most of that a total waste of money and offered stupid high contracts to underperforming players like De Gea, then there was Sanchez and Phil Jones.
Lack of money from succcess and all that spending was countered by getting sponsors for everything and anything they could think of.
Spent over a billion on transfers, with most of that a total waste of money and offered stupid high contracts to underperforming players like De Gea, then there was Sanchez and Phil Jones.
Lack of money from succcess and all that spending was countered by getting sponsors for everything and anything they could think of.
There's a lot of middle ground between us and Barcelona.
At the end of the day, Barcelona operate like a football club, and most of their revenue goes back into the club. That's preferable to paying for a leveraged buyout, lining the owner's pockets and generally running the club without any semblance of a plan for a decade. Just because Bartomeu and friends ran Barcelona like idiots doesn't make our club's model any sort of shining example.
Nuance, as always, is lost on here.
At the end of the day, Barcelona operate like a football club, and most of their revenue goes back into the club. That's preferable to paying for a leveraged buyout, lining the owner's pockets and generally running the club without any semblance of a plan for a decade. Just because Bartomeu and friends ran Barcelona like idiots doesn't make our club's model any sort of shining example.
Nuance, as always, is lost on here.
Yes it's definitely time for a massive shoutout to Woody, a lot of extremely bad decisions have been made under his supervision and a shit tonne of money has been wasted due to nothing but pure incompetence. But at least he didn't completely bankrupt us.
We won't do this but how I wish we replace Woodentop with Edwin VdS - who's good at his job, actually played football and actually won things at United. Of course, all those things rules him out of the running...
I was saying Boo-urns.
Out of curiosity, why do you think VdS is good or better than Woodward at the job?
Obviously I am not a fan of Woodward so my view may not be the most balanced, but I think a cart horse being bitten by a flea is better than Woodward. The number of transfers he's failed to get through or delay with his "here's £10.50 and a year's free subs to MUTV" drives me bonkers. He is far worse than let's say David Gill.
As for VdS, look at the job he is doing at Ajax - and, as I say, he played the game. And he clearly loved being part of United. For me, Woodward is a money-man first and foremost with no real feeling for the club. He will perform the same way in his next job be it in football, working in health care of for a train company. But, as I said, my view may not be totally fair on the bloke; he doesn't feel like a United fan to me
How do you know anything about transfers that didn't happen? Do you believe everything you read?
What about the job VdS is doing at Ajax? How is that "excellent" or even better than what Woodward has done with us? I don't get these comparisons. Have Ajax signed players that we couldn't? Are we supposed to sign the players Ajax are signing? Have Ajax protected their assets better than us? What exactly is this illusive ability that VdS has and Woodward doesn't?
And his position requires a "money-man". I would really hope we don't put someone who is not a money-man. That did wonders for Barca.
Have you seen Barca transfer in the past 6 years? shocking, waste of money they cant afford
yes barca won everything going - we can't that! And yes, I know they are in trouble now but I'd be surprised if that was the case a year or two from now.
As fo Ajax, look at how the club is run! nothing to do with transfers. Look at their youth and coaching set up
I do think the Barca situation should be a wake-up to us all. Some of the demands that people on this forum are putting on the club would be in a Barca situation within a couple of years if we even came close to the expenditure demands of a huge amount of the fan base.
Clubs need to get a handle on the contracts they hand out. In the past it was transfer fees that caused issues, going forward I suspect wages are going to be what brings down clubs.
Clubs need to get a handle on the contracts they hand out. In the past it was transfer fees that caused issues, going forward I suspect wages are going to be what brings down clubs.
Thanks to our benevolent overlords, King Ed of Old Trafford and our Enternal learder Malcolm Glazer
This tells me you don't really understand debt financing. Literally every mega company in the world does this. Debt is a dirty negative word in the minds of British public. It's quite a natural thing in the world of Finance. What kind of debt is the real question.
Isn’t our net debt just over £400m now?
My biggest worry is that despite all his faults, Ed finally got it right with the structure, and now he leaves. The football people are beginning to take hold of football dealings and Matt Judge seems to have gotten better in his judgement (for now).
Will the new boss be a big man who want to stamp his own authority? Or will he let this painfully crafted system that is FINALLY getting shit done to work? 99% it's going to be a financial nerd coming in to run the club and that's good in these times. But here's to hoping he doesn't press the restart button.
Will the new boss be a big man who want to stamp his own authority? Or will he let this painfully crafted system that is FINALLY getting shit done to work? 99% it's going to be a financial nerd coming in to run the club and that's good in these times. But here's to hoping he doesn't press the restart button.
How many fans were clamouring for new contracts for players like Andreas Pereira and Eric Bailly or Phil Jones and Marco Rojo before them? I am not saying I disagree with your fundamental point, which I believe is United needs to control wage costs. However, to put the blame for this at the feet of the fans would be a mistake. Most United fans would, and have, questioned the wisdom of sinking so much cost into the wages of 'deadwood' players. It's a very different issue to the one Bartomeu created at Barcelona, where the quest for shinier and shinier new toys has destroyed the club's finances.
To some extent I can see what you are saying. However, the club still has so many issues.
As I said earlier, why are we not using club's like Bayern Munich as a benchmark instead of Barcelona? As much as it feels like a punch in the gut to admit it, we can look across to East Manchester or down the East Lancs road and see much better run clubs. This idea that its Barcelona or bust is for the birds.
Compare and contrast the City campus with the training facilities that our team, at all levels, men and women, use. Or how City happily wave goodbye to Aguero while we keep giving past it players new deals to somehow 'protect value.' Look at the investment that has gone into certain other grounds, like Liverpool's new main standard, compared to how Old Trafford has been allowed to rot.
This issue is far bigger than X has been spent on first team transfers. Yes, that's the bit that gets the most chatter on social media. However, we are not a well run club. Even if the transfers bit is starting to mature and look a bit better, a lot would have to change between now and the end of 2021 for me to be convinced a new guy or gal wouldn't do things better.
but it’s not the Jones or Rojo contract that cause the issue. It’s things like the Sanchez contract ( which the vast majority thought was a bargain) the demand to give Pogba a new contract which would likely be in the same domain as the Sanchez contracts. Or to many contracts like Degea’s when they are heading towards the end of their prime. It’s the contstant demand for big names on big wages.
As much as the Jones contract is annoying and bad buissness, it’s nothing compared to the issues we spent like many fans demand.
What should I be looking when it comes to Ajax? What are the comparison metrics? Youth output? You do know that Manchester United has one of the most (if not THE most) productive academies with players competing in top divisions, including for the club itself, right?
What about the coaching set up? They are creating talent for others to take. Is that the intention for us?
As for Barca, their last title was 3 years ago. Their financial suicide started long before that but had the benefit of being a giant within their league + having the backing of external benefactors. Is that our target? Get non-money-man in charge, bankrupt the club in hopes that it will bring trophies and then what?
Feels like your opinion is based on feelings and emotions, not on facts.
My "opinion" is indeed based on emotion - it's called love for the club. But there are facts too: Ajax are among the best clubs for unearthing talent, virtually every decent pundit knows it. Look at the players they've turned out. OK it is in the Dutch league but that's where they play. As for our young players... well, maybe look how many we've shipped out over the past few years.
As for Barca's "suicide" - they look to be alive and kicking to me. But if you want to think Woodward has been good for United, there's little point in me buying you new glasses
I see what you're saying but I don't entirely agree. For the simple reason that if fans were listened to it would actually be easier to give the fans what they want.
For instance, we're told that United cannot buy a midfielder this summer. Why? Because we have too many on the wage bill already. However, of the ones on the wage bill how many were the fans crying out for? Most fans were shocked when Andreas' contract was renewed. Same with Matic, Mata and others.
United will always find money for special players because of their marketability. You just have to see those as extraordinary costs. But we don't have a Zidane and Pavons strategy. We pay the Pavon's as if they were close to Zidane's. That's why we can't shift the so-called 'deadwood'. What's the real incentive for a squad player on 60-70k a week at United, to go somewhere on half the money with a fraction of the glamour? There isn't one. That's why we have a 33 man first team squad.
United, consciously, tie down unwanted players hoping for transfer fees. They do it because a new contract flatters the book value of the first team squad, I believe. However, it then hamstrings the playing side of things because it puts a block on bringing players we actually need. This is one of the many things about the running of the club that must change.