Ekkie Thump
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- Mar 9, 2013
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I you can't read and you can't add up maybe refrain from making silly claims until you can.You got your figures wrong. I am happy to ignore these types of facts.
I you can't read and you can't add up maybe refrain from making silly claims until you can.You got your figures wrong. I am happy to ignore these types of facts.
Not at the level they are now. I can only speak from personal experience but beer gardens weren’t that big a thing in Belfast. Now every bar in the city is a glorified outside space.Beer gardens have been a thing since forever. Albeit, only popular in good weather.
What the indoor smoking ban did was create "outdoor smoking areas" which are an insult to the notion of an actual beer garden but do often have a roof, so can be used when the weather is crap.
I didn’t. The cost to NHS is much less than the tax revenue. The facts prove you are wrong. You came in acting like a smart arse and got it horribly wrong. Pretending otherwise won’t make it true.You got your figures wrong. I am happy to ignore these types of facts.
I personally see ‘beer’ gardens at a much higher level than they ever were before. Could be just my experience but they’re much more prevalent and busy than they were before the smoking ban. Every bar round here re-purposed their alleyways and have expanded and expanded since then.We were always in beer gardens over the summer when I was a kid (usually because we weren't allowed in the pubs) and that was pre-2007 smoking ban, by about 10-15 years.
And back in my student days, beer gardens were the place to be so long as it wasn't in the midst of winter, and that was early 00s.
Another red flag against your coolness!I still like you though.
Anyone unlucky enough to be in A&E on a friday or saturday night will see absolutely loads of drunks there. Its a huge strain on the NHS and it's dangerous for night workers and other people trying to enjoy themselves.I sorta agree - the amount of call outs London Ambulance services has due to people unable to drink responsibly is ridiculous. I think it was like over 75% of their call outs on weekends were due to this, which means people suffering from actual harm end up having to wait or find alternative means to get medical help.
You know once it's too late. My 16 year old self didnt give a feck.Is that last bit really true though? Most smokers I know (including myself when I did) think it's a stupid, disgusting and unhealthy habit which will likely kill them. The problem is they're addicted and are struggling to give up. I think there's very few long-term smokers who don't realise it sucks.
Nicotine is a horrible drug and getting it out of society would be a benefit.
No it's a different thing entirely. The former approach was introduce controls and disincentives on smokers within a legal framework, because being legal meant it could be regulated. That has worked. Now, the proposal is to control smoking by criminalising it, which has never worked. It is not a "logical next step", it's an entirely different category of thing.The last has been in place for decades. It’s helped get numbers down. Banning them altogether is the logical next step.
It will give smugglers and criminals a new revenue stream and incentives to market and distribute cigarettes or similar to grow the market.There’s bound to be a black market of sorts and people who are absolutely determined to smoke will find a way. I would also imagine it will be fairly lightly policed. But it will take millions of cigarettes out of circulation and millions of people will never smoke (the best possible option) that would have otherwise taken it up. happening.
I'll drag you up to my level mate.Another red flag against your coolness!
I'm aware it's a different thing entirely. I also think it's a logical next step. Unlike alcohol and other illegal drugs, the incentives for people to take up/keep smoking are uniquely low. The only "high" is easing the withdrawal symptoms. So you're not banning something for which there will always be a strong demand.No it's a different thing entirely. The former approach was introduce controls and disincentives on smokers within a legal framework, because being legal meant it could be regulated. That has worked. Now, the proposal is to control smoking by criminalising it, which has never worked. It is not a "logical next step", it's an entirely different category of thing.
See above. What if NZ decided to wait and see if it works somewhere else first? Somebody will always have to be an early adopter with policies like this.It will give smugglers and criminals a new revenue stream and incentives to market and distribute cigarettes or similar to grow the market.
Even a cursory look at the various wars on drugs/alcohol will show what a provably stupid idea this is.
We don't even know whether it's working in NZ or not. Why not wait til we see what happens there first? You know, make an evidence based decision.
Those two things are not the same. When something is legal, you can indeed, if you are so minded, reduce its impacts with a huge range of incentives and disincentives. When it's illegal, you can't.I'm 100% in favour of them being banned. The rolling age limit is a great idea.
There should also be £500 fine for anyone caught behaving in an anti social manner whilst under the influence of alchohol. These should be regularly handed out - it'd soon make friday and saturday nights in town centres nicer places.
Feel free to show me where I went wrong because I saw;I you can't read and you can't add up maybe refrain from making silly claims until you can.
Well it does, we prohibited lead from being used in paintWhen are people going to understand that prohibition doesn't work?
Feel free to show me where I went wrong because I saw;
Tax receipts = £10bn
Cost to the country estimates = £12-17bn
That was what you responded to. The cost to the country ignores the revenue it brings from people buying the product. The initial point was that tax revenue greatly exceeds the cost to the NHS. You said it was a myth. In the face of evidence you stick your fingers in your ears.Not every journey is necessary though. There is still an effect on those around you so these moral crusaders can look at home.
Tax on tobacco greatly exceeds the cost to the NHS so where are we replacing this revenue?
Don’t get me wrong, kids not smoking can only be a good thing for their health so I can’t complain a lot about it. I do think smokers are unfairly demonised though.
Sorry, the cost to the NHS is what number?That was what you responded to. The cost to the country ignores the revenue it brings from people buying the product. The initial point was that tax revenue greatly exceeds the cost to the NHS. You said it was a myth. In the face of evidence you stick your fingers in your ears.
Did you read it or not? It says £2.4b with an additional £1.2b in social care costs.Sorry, the cost to the NHS is what number?
Whats not the same? It's illegal to be drunk and disorderly in a public place.Those two things are not the same. When something is legal, you can indeed, if you are so minded, reduce its impacts with a huge range of incentives and disincentives. When it's illegal, you can't.
I'm sure the stats would correlate with this, but I'm still surprised by how many young people I see smoking. I used to work at a 6th form college, and now I work at a university, and it does feel like I see way more students smoking now than I did back when I was a student. They recently extended the smoking area by one of the cafeterias where I work, which I don't think I've ever seen happen anywhere.I don't really think a law like this is needed. Smoking is definitely less cool than it was and vaping is the new trend. I don't see many young people smoking at all anymore compared to those who vape.
I'm surprised by that. Most people I see now are vaping rather than smoking.I'm sure the stats would correlate with this, but I'm still surprised by how many young people I see smoking. I used to work at a 6th form college, and now I work at a university, and it does feel like I see way more students smoking now than I did back when I was a student. They recently extended the smoking area by one of the cafeterias where I work, which I don't think I've ever seen happen anywhere.
In such a social environment, it's weird to me that people willingly want to make themselves smell that bad, when you're going to be in close vicinity and collaborating with others. I used to sit next to a smoker in an old job, and he would smell wretched after coming back inside from a cig break. I'd honestly rather sit next to someone who hasn't showered for a week, than sit next to a smoker.
In the city, and out where I live, I do seem to see more vaping and less smoking overall, but on campus it flips. Probably worth noting that it's about 65% international students across the board where I work. So British youth are likely smoking less, but perhaps non-British youths aren't?I'm surprised by that. Most people I see now are vaping rather than smoking.
Alcohol is legal so we are able manage its effects through law (not always very well but that's another story). Fining people for being drunk and disorderly is one of the ways we do that. Arresting people for drunk driving is another. Banning alcohol is another potential way we could do that, but we don't because it's dumb and doesn't work.Whats not the same? It's illegal to be drunk and disorderly in a public place.
All the control freaks are out on this thread I see. My god, what a license for harassment that would be. Imagine being fined for being 34 and not 35 years old. Ludicrous.If the smoking age was raised annually, anyone under that age smoking would also be breaking the law.
I'd also like to add anyone under that age caught with cigarettes ought to be fined £100. It'd be a good money spinner and act as a deterrent.
Since we actually have an early adopter in NZ, and therefore an evidence point, we should wait for that evidence unless you want to be accused of banning things because your gut instinct says it's a good idea, which is kind of the vibe I am getting here. I'd expect it from a Tory politician, but not rational people.What if NZ decided to wait and see if it works somewhere else first? Somebody will always have to be an early adopter with policies like this.
We should totally ban stuff that you personally find disgusting and avoid hooking up with girls that you personally find distasteful.Disgusting habit. I grew up in a two parent with a pack a day habit house. If you moved anything hanging on the wall like a picture, it looked like a golfer's tan, white behind the picture & a dark tan color as the dominant color (our walls were painted an eggshell color).
Can't count how many girls I didn't hook up with because they smoked. I would occassionally try to accommodate a smoking girlfriend to get off my high horse, but no relationship lasted more than a couple of months untiI bailed.
So, not the verifiable negative impact to people's health?banning things because your gut instinct says it's a good idea
Yes and grimmer for people actually trying to quitVarious studies would suggest otherwise.
And just from personal experience of being in crowded places outdoors when people are smoking - beer gardens, festivals, the old days when you could smoke in football grounds - it's not as concentrated as indoors, but it's still grim for non-smokers.
18 year old adults in the USWhat adults can't buy alcohol?
Where in my post did I mention banning?We should totally ban stuff that you personally find disgusting and avoid hooking up with girls that you personally find distasteful.
There are already laws and penalties (including fines) in place for people partaking in anti-social behaviour under the influence of alcohol or not.I'm 100% in favour of them being banned. The rolling age limit is a great idea.
There should also be £500 fine for anyone caught behaving in an anti social manner whilst under the influence of alchohol. These should be regularly handed out - it'd soon make friday and saturday nights in town centres nicer places.
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Soon to be hugely restricted here as well. Importing banned in most circumstances except by pharmacies. Nicotine based vaping by prescription only. Disposable vapes banned.I'm surprised by that. Most people I see now are vaping rather than smoking.
Smoking?There are already laws and penalties (including fines) in place for people partaking in anti-social behaviour under the influence of alcohol or not.
What do you define as anti-social behaviour that isn't being punished already though?
Smoking?